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StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th

Forum Index > SC2 General
60 CommentsPost a Reply
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Kreuger
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden874 Posts
May 28 2026 17:48 GMT
#1
https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24276667/starcraft-ii-5-0-16-ptr-patch-notes(Wiki)


Hell yeah some changes

Mod Edit:
We've tried to make this PTR focus on extending the early and mid-game experience, allowing players to remain competitive on one to three bases for longer periods. We’ve introduced changes to make non-warped Gateway play a more viable path, while also increasing overall strategic diversity across all three races.

In addition, a range of quality-of-life improvements has been implemented to enhance the overall player experience.
Economy

Starting workers reduced from 12 to 8.
Default Large Mineral patch resource count reduced from 1,800 to 1,600.
Default Small Mineral patch resource count increased from 900 to 1,200.
Total Default Minerals per base increased from 10,800 to 11,200.
Default Vespene Geysers' resource count increased from 2,250 to 2,500.
Total Default Gas per base increased from 4,500 to 5,000.
Rich Vespene Gas Geyser harvest return value decreased from 8 to 6.

Zerg
Hatchery, Lair and Hive

Supplies provided reduced from 6 to 4.

Creep

Spread/Recede rate slowed from 0.45 to 0.55.

Spore Crawler

Damage against Biological increased from 20 (+10 Biological) to 20 (+15 Biological).

Carapace Upgrades

Level 1 cost decreased from 150/150 to 100/100.
Level 2 cost decreased from 200/200 to 150/150.
Level 3 cost decreased from 250/250 to 200/200.

Infestor

Microbial Shroud range increased from 9 to 12.
Microbial Shroud can now be cast without requiring an upgrade from the Infestation Pit.
Neural Parasite on builder SCVs will only expire at structure completion.
Now has an auto-attack weapon.

Viper

Abduct now considers Sieged Tanks a valid target.

Overlord

Speed without Pneumatized Carapace decreased from 0.9 to 0.7.
Can now issue 'Load Nearby Units' commands.

Overseer

Changelings automatically inherit the current order queue of the casting Overseer.
Changelings’ deaths are contagious to other nearby Changelings.

Mutalisk

Mutalisk Glaives now prioritize targets.
Arc slop increased to 180.

Terran
Command Center

Supplies provided reduced from 15 to 13.

Ghost

Supply increased from 2 to 3.
Health reduced from 125 to 100.
Attack damage changed from 10 + 10 vs Light to 20.
Attack range increased from 6 to 7.
Steady Targeting:
Damage increased from 130 + 40 vs Psionic to 170.
Energy cost increased from 50 to 75.
No longer cancels upon taking damage.

Medivac

Can now issue 'Load Nearby Units' commands.
Subgroup Priority:
Priority order updated from (Raven, Ghost, Battlecruiser, Marine, Marauder, SiegeTank) to (Ghost, Marine+Marauder, Raven, Battlecruiser, Siegetank).

Protoss
Nexus

Supplies provided reduced from 15 to 13.

Warpgate

Warpgate Research moved to the Gateway from the Cybernetics Core.
Warpgate Research speeds up Gateway unit production time by 35%.
'Transform to Warpgate' cost increased from 0/(0) to 50/(50).
Warp-in Time is no longer determined by 'slow power fields'.
Warp-in Time decreased to 3s (from 3.6s and 11.4s).
Warpgate Cooldown Values:
Zealot: from 20 to 22.
Adept: from 20 to 22.
Stalker: from 23 to 22.
Sentry: from 23 to 22.
High Templar: from 32 to 35.
Dark Templar: from 32 to 35.

Gateway

Pre-Warpgate Production Time Values:
Zealot: from 27 to 28.
Adept: from 30 to 28.
Stalker: from 27 to 28.
Sentry: from 23 to 24.
High Templar: from 32 to 40.
Dark Templar: from 32 to 40.
Post-Warpgate Production Time Values:
Zealot: 18.
Adept: 18.
Stalker: 18.
Sentry: 16.
High Templar: 26.
Dark Templar: 2.

Sentry

Hallucinations automatically inherit the current order queue of the casting Sentry.

High Templar

Psi Storm total damage reduced from 110 to 100.

Disruptor

Now has a 'phantom attack' weapon.

Warp Prism

Can now issue 'Load Nearby Units' commands.

Bug Fixes & Quality of Life Updates
... read article for more, there are some nice fixes.
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Legan
Profile Joined June 2017
Finland578 Posts
May 28 2026 17:54 GMT
#2
Wild changes. 8 workers start, and warpgates are now slower than gateways. Both have been theorised for so long. Let's see if some people were right. Also, changes to resource counts.
Creator of Gresvan, Tropical Sacrifice, Taitalika, and Golden Forge
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19363 Posts
May 28 2026 17:54 GMT
#3
The warpgate changes are massive. Overall this seems like an amazing shakeup to the game.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
398 Posts
May 28 2026 18:01 GMT
#4
Since Diablo 2 got an expansion, I was hoping that SC2 could also get one, with lower starting workers, new units and, with a race-neutral name (weird we call it LotV which is Protoss themed). This will do though, and maybe it's an experiment before bigger changes at BlizzCon -- I am an optimist
Cygnus
Profile Joined February 2004
United States852 Posts
May 28 2026 18:18 GMT
#5
If the lower starter count leads to more 4 start position maps I'm all for it! I'm down with this new era.
Kreuger
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden874 Posts
May 28 2026 18:32 GMT
#6
The amount of QOL changes and bug fixes is massive, good work intern
Antithesis
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany1245 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-28 19:15:01
23 hours ago
#7
Wow. I did not expect a patch of such magnitude. Looks great in large part and at the very least exciting for the more adventurous changes.

Many justified improvements. For instance there was never a valid reason as to why tanks, out of all units, should be unabductable. Also neat that finally infestors and disruptors get their a-moves. It was so absurd that protoss could happily a-move their templars but infestors needed constant babysitting. So now vipers and ravens are the two only casters without a-move, right? Also making ghosts less masseable again is a good thing.

Will be interesting to see how the worker change will play out. I never cared about it too much but it will definitely shake things up.
Mutation complete.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9435 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-28 19:20:09
23 hours ago
#8
Besides giving all casters auto-attack I find myself disagreeing with the philosophy of these changes. I do not think they are the correct type of changes.

For instance, the whole warpgate/gateway thing, sounds like something that sounds cool in theory - really sceptical around it.
The shroud - I rather they just make it stronger - make the punishment of fighting wihtin it much larger - as I think ths will encourage more tactical play around it - similar to a Dark Shroud (although still toned down).

If they are gonna do "crazy changes" then what about damage point defaulting to 0 and balancing the game around that (faster melee units to compensate). Thats just a pure awesome nice feel change.

Redesign some of the shitty abilities - like Abduct and what about just doing something else with Snipe completely instead of tweaing it.

Worker start - why not keep it at 12, but try and change some other build times or initial building costs to open up for more variability in early game?

And you know if we want QOL changes. Do something with the Ghost not taking priority over bio in terms of stim.... Like give it a fake stim ability as well so i can keep casting ghost abilities and still stim all bio units.

ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3493 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-28 19:28:12
23 hours ago
#9
Cabal is returned..

Clearly these changes are not made by Protoss players, absolute incredible nerfs to Zlots and Adepts. I guess we're just tunneled into Stalkers and Sentries, and additions like Robos, Star Gates and the Templars.
Warp Gate on Gateway is also not really a buff, since you cannot build units in this time. It's one of those reddit ideas that seem cool because it goes against what the game has always been, but is it really making the game more cool to make Protoss more similar to Zerg and Terran?

The phantom attacks should just stop, remove the HT attack, remove F2, these things don't belong in Starcraft.

There are some interesting ideas, and there's ambition, which I like, but I'm also terrified. So, players are already advocating against 4- player maps, we see it less in weeklies, but somehow 8 worker start will be seen well upon?

The gas increase don't really line up with the Mineral increases, though I don't mind more heavy gas play.
1600-1200 split is also pretty small, so 1400 for everything almost seems like the better solution. I like 1k-2k patches, that way it's like WoL, but the they will be mined at a slow rate, this way map makers can also be more adventurous in how far away expansions are, which could reduce the pace of the game which is much needed, but also give the oldschool feeling of big army clashes, and Zerg tech switches.

I would be excited for these changes, but unfortunately I play Protoss.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1157 Posts
23 hours ago
#10
I can't wait to 11/11 bunker rush again
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13998 Posts
22 hours ago
#11
I genuinely had to triple check it wasn't April 1st. What a fascinating list of changes.
Engage, Zero target Engage, Engage, Kagari target Engage, Engage.
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2727 Posts
22 hours ago
#12
"Dark Templar: 2." triggered some ptsd.

(I assume it's a typo and supposed to be 26?)
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33623 Posts
22 hours ago
#13
first thing I did was tell stuchiu that 9 pool is back
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1926 Posts
22 hours ago
#14
On May 29 2026 05:33 Waxangel wrote:
first thing I did was tell stuchiu that 9 pool is back


alas no 6 pool
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16070 Posts
21 hours ago
#15
Seems like a good time to quit the game. Hopefully this doesn't go live
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18299 Posts
21 hours ago
#16
Wild. What the actual fuck is going on there. Of this goes live, its the yolo patch. Buffs to gateway, reapplying the ghost supply nerf, buffing mutas and investors, and, of course, starting workers to 8. Bold strategy, Cotton!
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1691 Posts
21 hours ago
#17
Feels like a nerf to protoss but needs more testing.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33623 Posts
21 hours ago
#18
I think I'll enjoy the first couple of weeks of PTR tournament play just because it's a huge change of pace, but not sure how it will work out in the long run. Hoping for the best, obv
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
BluemoonSC
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
SoCal8911 Posts
21 hours ago
#19
PvX has been balanced around warpgate for so long and I'd hoped that they would make this kind of change years ago. I hope the gateway changes make it to live in some capacity.
LiquidDota Staff@BluemoonGG_
BlackEyed
Profile Joined October 2024
16 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-28 21:49:19
21 hours ago
#20
Don’t the developers want to give Zerg a proper T1 anti-air unit? Or are 10 years of Oracle openings in every PvZ still not enough? Maybe rework the Ravager and give it an anti-air attack while they’re at it. Then Queens could be nerfed too, or even capped with a limit.
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8247 Posts
20 hours ago
#21
Dead game is actually an alive game?! Whoa did not expect this
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3131 Posts
20 hours ago
#22
I have been fighting this terrible fanwank "design" change to Gateway/Warp Gate literally since 2010. I never thought I'd see the day.

I really don't think people are prepared for how annoying Protoss macro is about to get. Nor do I think the Balance Council or whoever is prepared to rebalance literally every Gateway unit for Protoss for all three matchups repeatedly over the next year. Oh well, at least we've now created "trade-offs"!

My main consolation is that I veerrrrry much doubt this will go to live; and maybe after seeing how it (doesn't) play out in practice, the people I've been arguing with since 2010 will finally give up on the idea.

The 8-worker start is another fan-driven complaint, but I'm pretty whatever about it. I have my doubts it will go through, but the game obviously works either way. Everything else is pretty tame.

I guess we should be preparing for some kind of influx of new players when Blizzard announces the new Starcraft shooter this year; but it would be nice for them to arrive to a game that's not really broken. Here's to hoping!
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
baldgye
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom1104 Posts
19 hours ago
#23
On May 29 2026 07:48 Captain Peabody wrote:
I have been fighting this terrible fanwank "design" change to Gateway/Warp Gate literally since 2010. I never thought I'd see the day.

I really don't think people are prepared for how annoying Protoss macro is about to get. Nor do I think the Balance Council or whoever is prepared to rebalance literally every Gateway unit for Protoss for all three matchups repeatedly over the next year. Oh well, at least we've now created "trade-offs"!

My main consolation is that I veerrrrry much doubt this will go to live; and maybe after seeing how it (doesn't) play out in practice, the people I've been arguing with since 2010 will finally give up on the idea.

The 8-worker start is another fan-driven complaint, but I'm pretty whatever about it. I have my doubts it will go through, but the game obviously works either way. Everything else is pretty tame.

I guess we should be preparing for some kind of influx of new players when Blizzard announces the new Starcraft shooter this year; but it would be nice for them to arrive to a game that's not really broken. Here's to hoping!



I’m really curious to see how pros get around the gate changes, at the moment it just seems like a crazy nerf to Protoss?
Like you now lose unit production from a gateway in the early game… unless you just heavily delay wg?
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1922 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-28 23:54:36
19 hours ago
#24
Whichever pro or commentator pushed these changes and got blizz to actually try it, THANK YOU.

That being said, I hope if these changes do go through, they will poll the players or some type of feedback loop to ensure that if players don't like it, they will revert. The game has been with these workers for 10 years now. It will feel like a different game with these changes and that's is sad but also exciting.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
sidasf
Profile Joined February 2023
99 Posts
18 hours ago
#25
Warpgate changes seem to be superfluous busy work and they don't make the game enjoyable for anybody playing the race. Worker start change seems to be more popular with people who don't play than those who do. I think given how little support SC2 has and that we have to wait nearly a year between patches this will end up disastrous for the game and it's playerbase after the dust settles. I hope I'm wrong.
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3131 Posts
18 hours ago
#26
On May 29 2026 08:08 baldgye wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2026 07:48 Captain Peabody wrote:
I have been fighting this terrible fanwank "design" change to Gateway/Warp Gate literally since 2010. I never thought I'd see the day.

I really don't think people are prepared for how annoying Protoss macro is about to get. Nor do I think the Balance Council or whoever is prepared to rebalance literally every Gateway unit for Protoss for all three matchups repeatedly over the next year. Oh well, at least we've now created "trade-offs"!

My main consolation is that I veerrrrry much doubt this will go to live; and maybe after seeing how it (doesn't) play out in practice, the people I've been arguing with since 2010 will finally give up on the idea.

The 8-worker start is another fan-driven complaint, but I'm pretty whatever about it. I have my doubts it will go through, but the game obviously works either way. Everything else is pretty tame.

I guess we should be preparing for some kind of influx of new players when Blizzard announces the new Starcraft shooter this year; but it would be nice for them to arrive to a game that's not really broken. Here's to hoping!



I’m really curious to see how pros get around the gate changes, at the moment it just seems like a crazy nerf to Protoss?
Like you now lose unit production from a gateway in the early game… unless you just heavily delay wg?

Yes I was radically underrating it when I said you would have to rebalance every Gateway unit. You would also have to completely rebalance all Protoss offense, all Protoss harassment, all Protoss reinforcement, AND all Protoss defense. Oh yeah, and basically just all Protoss macro generally. And yeah, also all of Protoss early-game, mid-game, AND late-game. Am I forgetting something?

I'm not saying you couldn't do it given a few years and lots of iteration, but fundamentally there is not and never has been anything broken about the Warp Gate mechanic and it's a fun and interactive mechanic with a lot of flavor that is core to SC2 Protoss identity and every single SC2 Protoss playstyle so I am not in favor!
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Squirrel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1101 Posts
18 hours ago
#27
Wow that warpgate change is massive right? I remember people actually wanting that specific change(Untransformed warpgates being faster so there's a reason to not change them) like, during beta
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1922 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 00:34:36
18 hours ago
#28
Not sure how people are saying this is a nerf to protoss. How? Don't gateways produce faster now. Just gotta be on your macro like a terran or a sc1 toss.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
Captain Peabody
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3131 Posts
18 hours ago
#29
On May 29 2026 09:34 CicadaSC wrote:
Not sure how people are saying this is a nerf to protoss. How? Don't gateways produce faster now. Just gotta be on your macro like a terran or a sc1 toss.

Protoss defense is balanced around being able to reactively Warp In units at home and to far-flung expansions. Protoss offense is balanced around being able to rapidly and reactively reinforce. Protoss harassment is balanced around...

You see what I did there?

The strength of the Warp Gate mechanic, and hence its relevance for balance, is not in the speed of production, but in the ability to produce 1) reactively, and 2) at a distance from production structures.

Yes, of course it is theoretically possible to create a game state where Protoss does not have those abilities but is roughly the same strength or perhaps even stronger, but to do that it is necessary not merely to let Protoss build faster, but to rebalance every part of the game where those strengths are relevant to make up for their absence.
Dies Irae venit. youtube.com/SnobbinsFilms
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2727 Posts
17 hours ago
#30
On May 29 2026 09:48 Captain Peabody wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2026 09:34 CicadaSC wrote:
Not sure how people are saying this is a nerf to protoss. How? Don't gateways produce faster now. Just gotta be on your macro like a terran or a sc1 toss.

Protoss defense is balanced around being able to reactively Warp In units at home and to far-flung expansions. Protoss offense is balanced around being able to rapidly and reactively reinforce. Protoss harassment is balanced around...

You see what I did there?

The strength of the Warp Gate mechanic, and hence its relevance for balance, is not in the speed of production, but in the ability to produce 1) reactively, and 2) at a distance from production structures.

Yes, of course it is theoretically possible to create a game state where Protoss does not have those abilities but is roughly the same strength or perhaps even stronger, but to do that it is necessary not merely to let Protoss build faster, but to rebalance every part of the game where those strengths are relevant to make up for their absence.


I did understand the core of the "remove warp gate mechanic" argument being that warp-in narrows the design space and potential of gateway units, causing issues in P race design because gateway units kind of -have to- suck by design.

It seems insane to lean away from warp-in but not also rebalance the units? Time will tell, I guess.
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3489 Posts
17 hours ago
#31
Warpgate is still in the game, not removed, so what are people crying about? Now the individual Warpgate upgrade is pretty stupid, so they should move it back to the Cybernetic Core, each Gateway has the option to transform to Warpgate after it is research.
And I do feel this change to make Terran turtle even harder than before to get a huge Ghost count for Snipe, moving out on the map just not worth it anymore in TvZ with the buff on the Shroud.
Squirrel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1101 Posts
17 hours ago
#32
On May 29 2026 09:34 CicadaSC wrote:
Not sure how people are saying this is a nerf to protoss. How? Don't gateways produce faster now. Just gotta be on your macro like a terran or a sc1 toss.



Warpgates *do* cost 50/50 more for each one now, but also units warp in faster when abroad too.

I don't know if it comes out to a nerf or a buff, but it's absolutely going to change things. You could just keep a few warpgates around for when you need to quickly reinforce/defend, or turn them back to Gateways for production and Warps for reinforcing.(Once you pay, you don't have to pay again for that building if you go back and forth)
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1932 Posts
17 hours ago
#33
8 worker start? Fuck yeah!
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26903 Posts
17 hours ago
#34
Wow, this is about 17 times as ambitious a potential patch as I thought we’d ever see again

Good? Well I’m not sure, but it’s fucking bold, and I like some ideas I’m just not sure how they all work.

The gateway production boost, very interesting. I’ve long advocated for something like it as a tradeoff. Make more stuff versus the mobility advantage of warping in. Not that my theorycrafting is worth anything but I’ve felt basically since SC2 launched that gateways should > warpgates in production potential, and warpgates should compensate with ease of deployment.

Change of starting workers is fucking gigantic, and we’ve never seen it before in the base game. I’m interested to see how that works. I think many are sick of the current worker start effectively leading to no rush 3 base games, but 6 worker starts are maybe a little slow so it feels they’ve tried to settle on something in the middle.

We of course need to see how the PTR phase goes.

I’m a bit biased because I haven’t played in ages and a reset is going to naturally advantage me relative to others, but I think this is an exciting as fuck patch. Even if the patch itself is bad, its radical stuff, and Blizz still having people in the building who are willing to be radical is itself a good thing in my book.

If certain ideas turn out to be a complete disaster in PTR testing, don’t do those
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
redloser
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1750 Posts
17 hours ago
#35
Why 8 workers not 6?

The warp gate change is not bad imo, but just plain weird.

There were complaints about warp gates since the beginning of wotl, but why now?
jettMzf
Profile Joined April 2026
Brazil4 Posts
17 hours ago
#36
Damn that's huge. I'm super excited for it, that will shake the game up a bit =]
u realize most of that army was halluc
Yoshi Kirishima
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States10367 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 02:57:30
16 hours ago
#37
Holy SHIT i did NOT expect such amazing changes

Worker start to 8 or 9
This is PERFECT. Speeds up the very early game a little without overly favoring economy over tech/production. Less economy explosion, less zerg snowballing out of control, less protoss swarming with gateway units and blink stalkers before mech can secure a 3rd base.

TONS of opening builds will be brought back. When we had 6 worker start we had so many different gas timings. For example with Terran, you could do 12 rax 13 gas, or 12 rax 13 gas, or 12 rax 15 gas, etc. And you had to decide whether to make 1 2 or 3 marines before making a reactor, or whether to make 1 2 3 reapers before making a reactor in order to defend various Protoss openers (Zealot? Zealot + Stalker? 2 Stalkers? Etc.). You had to decide whether to bunker at your natural or hold your main ramp. Whether to CC low ground or in your base. You could even skip walling at your ramp and just making your depots and rax near your mineral line. SO many decisions brought back with 8 worker start.

MECH will be back into a much more comfortable spot. Without economy exploding, Mech builds have time to get their factory production and tech up so they can get a 3rd base before the opponent starts warming with gateway pushes or blink stalkers. This also means MORE map variety, the 3rd base doesn't necessarily need to be so close and easy to defend.

As Terran for example it will probably bring back 1/1/1 openers. WM drops, Hellion drops, Cloak Banshee, etc. into Expand. Which all helped give Mech more openers.

3-4 PLAYER MAPS CAN COME BACK!!!
This one is HUGE!!! Being able to take other base's main and naturals, along with their ramps/chokes, means MORE SPREAD OUT GAMEPLAY and skirmishes around the map. You can choose to spread out your production to reinforce certain corners of the map easier or have different paths of reinforcement so your opponent can't cut your reinforcement line so easily. Instead of armies just moving from 1 side to the other side of the map, the battlefield is more chaotic.
You can choose to take a main/natural base in a different corner as your 4th/5th, if the opponent comes up the ramp you can defend it more cost efficiently than the attack, and if they get around it with drops and such you can also prepare counter measures for that too, leading to more back and forth gameplay and the "putting out fires across the map" feel that BW has and LotV aimed for.

Also base trades are less 1 dimensional and less game ending! Remember games on Tal'Darim Altar for example? Since your bases and production can be spread across 2 corners of the map, if a base trade starts to occur the game doesn't immediately spiral out of control and end 99% of the time. Both players can destroy 1 corner and they can stabilize with their remaining corner.

As a player, it really feels like most games on ladder it's the most important to just focus on expanding, getting rich, upgrading like every research and getting every production/tech you need, and racing to a max'd out 200/200 army with all your tech AND a bank before you commit to a big attack so you can reinforce without immediately losing the game if you lose the battle. And this is REALLY, REALLY boring! A lot of pro games feel like this too!
Expanding to tons of bases + getting all your tech AND building a bank should only happen very occasionally if games go to the very late-game or endgame. It should occur in say 10-20% of games, not 50-75%.
You should be able to make meaningful decisions on what tech and production to make, and the focus of the gameplay should be on interacting with your opponent like harassing, map control, attacking/defending.

I remember before SC2 came out, it was so thrilling as a noob getting into BW by looking up a build that opened with some harass like lurker drop, 2 base muta, etc. NOT trying to rush to 4-5 hatches for example.
And the worker change will bring these back.

Regarding Warpgates and Gateways having more of a role in early/mid game, I think that's cool!
But I'm not sure about making it so that Gateway production is faster than WG production. Being able to warp in say 10 units to defend a base is quite necessary for Protoss isn't it? And it's just very fun to use WG too.
I think they can allow delaying upgrading to WG to be a thing in the early to early-mid game, opting not to spend 50 minerals upgrading to WG, and instead rely on Gateway production and good army positioning to defend bases.
And perhaps good players instead of having 12 warp gates mid-late game will have half and half to save 300 minerals.
(Then in late game when money is not a problem, upgrade them all to warp gates).

BUT Warpgate should just have the same production time as Gateway. You can keep the warp in time at 3.6 second or even 4 seconds, 3 seconds is too fast. Make it so the 50 to upgrade to WG is purely just to be able to warp in far.
Those who want WG to be able to warp in around the map, or to do aggressive warpgate pushes again, can do so too without a Warp Prism. A 4 gate push costs 200 more minerals as if building a WP.

Regarding ghost changes:
Uh, these are really whack lol. Why are they buffing the auto attack and range to 7? Is it because increasing the supply to 3 (and rebalancing the snipe to 75 energy) is too much a nerf so they want to increase its power, while keeping them Light 100 HP units so you can still soft counter them with banelings, colossus, adepts, phoenix, etc.?
Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."
arwinter
Profile Joined April 2021
1 Post
15 hours ago
#38
I wouldn't have hated the WG changes but they should compensate it with either nerfing/changing macro mechanics of the other races too (especially inject) or making gateway units significantly stronger.

Protoss already struggled holding some of the allins like roach queen walks or even low drone count hydra allins and scv pulls, these will likely become very problematic now with the units having to walk into battle from the gateways from the main base.

Also, I like the 8 worker change I do believe it will make some cheeses more commited which I really like, you shouldn't be able to easily macro out of a failed pool first or cannon rush.

However the problem with the 8 worker change is that the players will need to completely relearn the game and I don't believe many casual players will want to do that and will get put off by the idea.

In BW once you learn something about the game it will be handy forever and I like that.
Day9's Starcraft 1 Youtube series is still to this day is relevant, while any SC2 guides from a month ago will be irrelevant.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12722 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 07:40:43
11 hours ago
#39
Just played a few games on the PTR, sure I am rusty but wow I got no idea how protoss works now.
Why not make unwrap gate spawn units faster as well, that would make it more consistent and easier to manage.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
WSH32
Profile Joined May 2026
3 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 09:12:13
9 hours ago
#40
Title: 5.0.16 PTR Feedback: Mass Changelings Still Create an Unfair Attention Trade, and Ghost Nerfs Go Too Far

After reading the 5.0.16 PTR patch notes, I still believe two major late-game balance issues are not being properly addressed: mass Changeling abuse and the over-nerfing of Ghosts.

The new Changeling change is a step, but it does not solve the core issue. Making Changelings inherit Overseer orders and causing nearby Changelings to die together may reduce some extreme cases, but Zerg can still generate large numbers of Changelings with very little extra attention. The opponent, especially Terran or Protoss, must manually identify and clear them while also defending expansions, watching for Nydus, controlling the main army, and preparing for a decisive late-game fight.

This creates an unfair attention and APM trade. The Zerg player spends very little attention to create the problem, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up. In late-game SC2, where one missed Nydus, one blocked army movement, or one distracted camera movement can decide the game, this mechanic becomes disproportionately powerful.

My proposed solution is simple: active Changelings should cost 1 supply, or there should be a strict active Changeling limit. I prefer the 1-supply solution because it does not nerf the Overseer’s intended roles: scouting, detection, and anti-invisibility. It only limits mass battlefield pollution and unfair attention trading.

The second issue is the Ghost. The 5.0.16 PTR change increases Ghost supply from 2 to 3, reduces HP from 125 to 100, and increases Steady Targeting energy cost from 50 to 75. A full-energy Ghost used to cast Steady Targeting four times. With 75 energy cost, it can only cast twice. That is a 50% reduction in immediate spell output.

This is especially problematic because late-game Terran depends heavily on Ghosts to survive against Vipers, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, and other high-value Zerg units. Zerg spellcasters, especially Vipers, can also replenish energy much more efficiently through Consume, while Ghosts must wait for energy to regenerate over time. Increasing Steady Targeting to 75 energy makes Terran’s ability to answer repeated Viper pressure much weaker.

This problem becomes even more serious when we remember that Ghosts are not the only Terran late-game tool that has been repeatedly targeted. Siege Tanks and Liberators have also been limited across recent balance directions. The Liberator in particular has been repeatedly pressured in the areas that matter most to its late-game role: range, zone control, and vision. Siege Tanks are also now being opened again to Abduct interaction in the PTR. If Ghosts are heavily nerfed at the same time, Terran will lose multiple layers of its late-game defensive and positional structure at once.

Meanwhile, Zerg has received several mechanical improvements to its late-game tools. Microbial Shroud has become a much more relevant anti-air protection tool, Hydralisks received Lunge/Dash-style mobility, Infestors continue to gain more practical utility, and now Vipers are again being given stronger interaction against Siege Tanks. These are not just small numerical changes; many of them are mechanical improvements that expand what Zerg units can do.

Terran players are not asking for a major new mechanic or a large buff. The request is much more modest: do not keep stacking targeted numerical nerfs onto the few units Terran still relies on to fight late-game Zerg. Keeping Ghosts at 2 supply and keeping Steady Targeting at 50 energy is not an unreasonable demand. It is necessary for Terran to retain a fair late-game fighting chance.

I believe Ghosts should remain 2 supply, and Steady Targeting should remain 50 energy. If Ghosts remain Light units, the 125 HP change should also remain. The damage does not need to be increased; the old 130 + 40 vs Psionic profile is acceptable. The one good change is that Steady Targeting no longer being cancelled by damage should stay, because that interaction should have been fixed long ago.

In short, my proposed changes are:

1. Limit mass Changeling abuse by making active Changelings cost 1 supply, or by adding a strict active Changeling cap.
2. Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
3. Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
4. If Ghosts remain Light, keep them at 125 HP.

These changes would address real late-game interaction problems without removing Terran’s already fragile late-game control tools.

Possible replies to common counterarguments:

If someone says, “Changelings were already nerfed in this PTR,” my response is:

The PTR change reduces some Changeling clumping abuse, but it does not solve the fundamental issue. Zerg can still create the problem with very little attention, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up during late-game multitasking. The issue is not only the Changeling itself; the issue is the unequal attention trade it creates.

For the Ghost nerf argument:


I am not arguing that Ghosts should be buffed. I am arguing that stacking 3 supply, 100 HP, Light tag, and 75-energy Steady Targeting at the same time is too much. Terran late game is not carried by Ghosts alone. It relies on a fragile combination of Ghosts, Liberators, Siege Tanks, Vikings, Planetaries, Sensor Towers, and careful positioning. Liberators and Siege Tanks have already been repeatedly pressured by previous and current balance directions. If Ghosts are also heavily nerfed, Terran no longer has a fair late-game answer to Vipers, Infestors, Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and repeated Zerg remaxes.

Zerg has received several mechanical improvements, from Microbial Shroud becoming more practical, to Hydralisks gaining Lunge/Dash mobility, to Infestors and Vipers gaining more late-game utility. In comparison, Terran players are simply asking that their core late-game control unit not be hit by several major numerical nerfs at the same time. That is a fair and reasonable request.
WSH32
Profile Joined May 2026
3 Posts
9 hours ago
#41
On May 29 2026 11:34 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Holy SHIT i did NOT expect such amazing changes

Worker start to 8 or 9
This is PERFECT. Speeds up the very early game a little without overly favoring economy over tech/production. Less economy explosion, less zerg snowballing out of control, less protoss swarming with gateway units and blink stalkers before mech can secure a 3rd base.

TONS of opening builds will be brought back. When we had 6 worker start we had so many different gas timings. For example with Terran, you could do 12 rax 13 gas, or 12 rax 13 gas, or 12 rax 15 gas, etc. And you had to decide whether to make 1 2 or 3 marines before making a reactor, or whether to make 1 2 3 reapers before making a reactor in order to defend various Protoss openers (Zealot? Zealot + Stalker? 2 Stalkers? Etc.). You had to decide whether to bunker at your natural or hold your main ramp. Whether to CC low ground or in your base. You could even skip walling at your ramp and just making your depots and rax near your mineral line. SO many decisions brought back with 8 worker start.

MECH will be back into a much more comfortable spot. Without economy exploding, Mech builds have time to get their factory production and tech up so they can get a 3rd base before the opponent starts warming with gateway pushes or blink stalkers. This also means MORE map variety, the 3rd base doesn't necessarily need to be so close and easy to defend.

As Terran for example it will probably bring back 1/1/1 openers. WM drops, Hellion drops, Cloak Banshee, etc. into Expand. Which all helped give Mech more openers.

3-4 PLAYER MAPS CAN COME BACK!!!
This one is HUGE!!! Being able to take other base's main and naturals, along with their ramps/chokes, means MORE SPREAD OUT GAMEPLAY and skirmishes around the map. You can choose to spread out your production to reinforce certain corners of the map easier or have different paths of reinforcement so your opponent can't cut your reinforcement line so easily. Instead of armies just moving from 1 side to the other side of the map, the battlefield is more chaotic.
You can choose to take a main/natural base in a different corner as your 4th/5th, if the opponent comes up the ramp you can defend it more cost efficiently than the attack, and if they get around it with drops and such you can also prepare counter measures for that too, leading to more back and forth gameplay and the "putting out fires across the map" feel that BW has and LotV aimed for.

Also base trades are less 1 dimensional and less game ending! Remember games on Tal'Darim Altar for example? Since your bases and production can be spread across 2 corners of the map, if a base trade starts to occur the game doesn't immediately spiral out of control and end 99% of the time. Both players can destroy 1 corner and they can stabilize with their remaining corner.

As a player, it really feels like most games on ladder it's the most important to just focus on expanding, getting rich, upgrading like every research and getting every production/tech you need, and racing to a max'd out 200/200 army with all your tech AND a bank before you commit to a big attack so you can reinforce without immediately losing the game if you lose the battle. And this is REALLY, REALLY boring! A lot of pro games feel like this too!
Expanding to tons of bases + getting all your tech AND building a bank should only happen very occasionally if games go to the very late-game or endgame. It should occur in say 10-20% of games, not 50-75%.
You should be able to make meaningful decisions on what tech and production to make, and the focus of the gameplay should be on interacting with your opponent like harassing, map control, attacking/defending.

I remember before SC2 came out, it was so thrilling as a noob getting into BW by looking up a build that opened with some harass like lurker drop, 2 base muta, etc. NOT trying to rush to 4-5 hatches for example.
And the worker change will bring these back.

Regarding Warpgates and Gateways having more of a role in early/mid game, I think that's cool!
But I'm not sure about making it so that Gateway production is faster than WG production. Being able to warp in say 10 units to defend a base is quite necessary for Protoss isn't it? And it's just very fun to use WG too.
I think they can allow delaying upgrading to WG to be a thing in the early to early-mid game, opting not to spend 50 minerals upgrading to WG, and instead rely on Gateway production and good army positioning to defend bases.
And perhaps good players instead of having 12 warp gates mid-late game will have half and half to save 300 minerals.
(Then in late game when money is not a problem, upgrade them all to warp gates).

BUT Warpgate should just have the same production time as Gateway. You can keep the warp in time at 3.6 second or even 4 seconds, 3 seconds is too fast. Make it so the 50 to upgrade to WG is purely just to be able to warp in far.
Those who want WG to be able to warp in around the map, or to do aggressive warpgate pushes again, can do so too without a Warp Prism. A 4 gate push costs 200 more minerals as if building a WP.

Regarding ghost changes:
Uh, these are really whack lol. Why are they buffing the auto attack and range to 7? Is it because increasing the supply to 3 (and rebalancing the snipe to 75 energy) is too much a nerf so they want to increase its power, while keeping them Light 100 HP units so you can still soft counter them with banelings, colossus, adepts, phoenix, etc.?



Yea, I wish the mech could have been returned, but ghost cannot be nerfed at all, Terran really relies on libs tank and ghost in late game, and they have already buffed zerg for many times, hydra charge, infestor shroud, and terran always been nerfed? The balance team does not care about the balance, they just want zerg to be unbeatable.
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16070 Posts
9 hours ago
#42
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
WSH32
Profile Joined May 2026
3 Posts
9 hours ago
#43
On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.


Can't agree more with your point bro, the only thing that this shithead community balance team has done is getting fucking Zerg more powerful repeatedly thru anything they can get. Infestor shroud, hydra charge, for those things that is actually damaging this game, the fucking balance team never cared. Mass changelings, very OP vipers, and they still keep nerf Liberator and ghost, now they turn it back and nerf Terran again, but Protoss seems getting hurt more this time. I think the game should be called ZergCraft. Blizzard should never grant anyone else to access the code and modify the game.
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3547 Posts
8 hours ago
#44
On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.

I dont think toss will be Just Terran 2.0, warpgates still have a function but there is some cost and tradeoff associated with it now. Might Open Up the door for some Gateway unit Changes, Like idk faster blink again or a cyber core Upgrade for adepts or stalkers.
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1922 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 10:21:22
8 hours ago
#45
It's not terran 2.0... it's broodwar macro toss... Tbh, that's the way it was and I still think it can feel like a unique race. It doesn't play at all like terran in either game. Less so SC2 imo! And late game you can even do warpgates too... Honestly, I think this makes protoss stand out even more with its diversity of macro mechanics.
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7174 Posts
7 hours ago
#46
Not a fan of the gateway changes at all. Economy changes on the other hand? Hell yeah
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26903 Posts
7 hours ago
#47
On May 29 2026 18:55 WSH32 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.


Can't agree more with your point bro, the only thing that this shithead community balance team has done is getting fucking Zerg more powerful repeatedly thru anything they can get. Infestor shroud, hydra charge, for those things that is actually damaging this game, the fucking balance team never cared. Mass changelings, very OP vipers, and they still keep nerf Liberator and ghost, now they turn it back and nerf Terran again, but Protoss seems getting hurt more this time. I think the game should be called ZergCraft. Blizzard should never grant anyone else to access the code and modify the game.

The idea that it’s Zergcraft when at the pro and GM level Zergs are underrepresented is uttely preposterous
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
derkopf
Profile Joined July 2004
Germany87 Posts
6 hours ago
#48
is it just me or is the shroud buff not live?
TeamMamba
Profile Joined June 2025
219 Posts
4 hours ago
#49
Another patch that toss gets screwed over again.

If they want to remove wrap gate mechanics at least try to buff the gateway units, but nah
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16843 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 14:28:27
4 hours ago
#50
fan of it all except for casters having attacks, bad change

similarly i think the macro economy of zerg and terran could use a zesty change, like making queens less 1 note and all purpose. maybe injections can scale with lair/hive tech in some way

and for people saying that gateway units need buffs, fine, those changes will come if the game looks better. this is actually an opportunity to fix the poisoned pill warpgate was for protoss on a balance level.
The Bomber boy
Mizenhauer
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
United States1926 Posts
4 hours ago
#51
On May 29 2026 20:40 Luolis wrote:
Not a fan of the gateway changes at all. Economy changes on the other hand? Hell yeah


was waiting for this
┗|∵|┓Second Place in LB 28, Third Place in LB 29 and Destined to Be a Kong
RavenAx
Profile Joined May 2026
1 Post
4 hours ago
#52
So Workers number reduced to 8 from 12 is more favouring cheese gameplay or macro ?
Imo it will slow the economy so taking an expansion super quick will be riskier, because it will be a bigger investment.

I like Warpgates. You spend your money and you instantly get your unit where you want, it's a hudge advantage. And an original gameplay.
Whereas as terran, you need to spend the money, wait it to be built, and then wait it to be at the position you rallied it.

Now letting your gateway not transformed allows you to build faster, but not for the first unit. It also allows you to queue production.

But if we don't want this change, Warpgates now cost 50/50 more ressources per gate ? This is a hudge nerf. Drops and offensive wrap are also nerfed.

It will slow down protoss early offensives. The old 4 gates one base will now cost 150/150 more.

Also increasing ressources in bases will favor turtle gameplay a little bit. Terran late game is based on defensive play with offensive pushes when possible. So it might favor terran a little on this point. They will run out of ressources a little latter.
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16122 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 15:24:37
3 hours ago
#53
On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.


Have you tried it on the PTR yet? The change actually feels A LOT better than it looks in the patch notes because what everyone is forgetting is that Warp Ins are now down to 3 seconds. This is a huge buff to Protoss macro in the mid and late game, but it's making early game aggression with Warp Gate more expensive.

The first thing I noticed when I played with it on the PTR is how fast warp ins are, that's MUCH more noticeable than the price of the Warp Gate upgrade.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria925 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 15:23:10
3 hours ago
#54
On May 29 2026 17:57 WSH32 wrote:
Title: 5.0.16 PTR Feedback: Mass Changelings Still Create an Unfair Attention Trade, and Ghost Nerfs Go Too Far

After reading the 5.0.16 PTR patch notes, I still believe two major late-game balance issues are not being properly addressed: mass Changeling abuse and the over-nerfing of Ghosts.

The new Changeling change is a step, but it does not solve the core issue. Making Changelings inherit Overseer orders and causing nearby Changelings to die together may reduce some extreme cases, but Zerg can still generate large numbers of Changelings with very little extra attention. The opponent, especially Terran or Protoss, must manually identify and clear them while also defending expansions, watching for Nydus, controlling the main army, and preparing for a decisive late-game fight.

This creates an unfair attention and APM trade. The Zerg player spends very little attention to create the problem, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up. In late-game SC2, where one missed Nydus, one blocked army movement, or one distracted camera movement can decide the game, this mechanic becomes disproportionately powerful.

My proposed solution is simple: active Changelings should cost 1 supply, or there should be a strict active Changeling limit. I prefer the 1-supply solution because it does not nerf the Overseer’s intended roles: scouting, detection, and anti-invisibility. It only limits mass battlefield pollution and unfair attention trading.

The second issue is the Ghost. The 5.0.16 PTR change increases Ghost supply from 2 to 3, reduces HP from 125 to 100, and increases Steady Targeting energy cost from 50 to 75. A full-energy Ghost used to cast Steady Targeting four times. With 75 energy cost, it can only cast twice. That is a 50% reduction in immediate spell output.

This is especially problematic because late-game Terran depends heavily on Ghosts to survive against Vipers, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, and other high-value Zerg units. Zerg spellcasters, especially Vipers, can also replenish energy much more efficiently through Consume, while Ghosts must wait for energy to regenerate over time. Increasing Steady Targeting to 75 energy makes Terran’s ability to answer repeated Viper pressure much weaker.

This problem becomes even more serious when we remember that Ghosts are not the only Terran late-game tool that has been repeatedly targeted. Siege Tanks and Liberators have also been limited across recent balance directions. The Liberator in particular has been repeatedly pressured in the areas that matter most to its late-game role: range, zone control, and vision. Siege Tanks are also now being opened again to Abduct interaction in the PTR. If Ghosts are heavily nerfed at the same time, Terran will lose multiple layers of its late-game defensive and positional structure at once.

Meanwhile, Zerg has received several mechanical improvements to its late-game tools. Microbial Shroud has become a much more relevant anti-air protection tool, Hydralisks received Lunge/Dash-style mobility, Infestors continue to gain more practical utility, and now Vipers are again being given stronger interaction against Siege Tanks. These are not just small numerical changes; many of them are mechanical improvements that expand what Zerg units can do.

Terran players are not asking for a major new mechanic or a large buff. The request is much more modest: do not keep stacking targeted numerical nerfs onto the few units Terran still relies on to fight late-game Zerg. Keeping Ghosts at 2 supply and keeping Steady Targeting at 50 energy is not an unreasonable demand. It is necessary for Terran to retain a fair late-game fighting chance.

I believe Ghosts should remain 2 supply, and Steady Targeting should remain 50 energy. If Ghosts remain Light units, the 125 HP change should also remain. The damage does not need to be increased; the old 130 + 40 vs Psionic profile is acceptable. The one good change is that Steady Targeting no longer being cancelled by damage should stay, because that interaction should have been fixed long ago.

In short, my proposed changes are:

1. Limit mass Changeling abuse by making active Changelings cost 1 supply, or by adding a strict active Changeling cap.
2. Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
3. Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
4. If Ghosts remain Light, keep them at 125 HP.

These changes would address real late-game interaction problems without removing Terran’s already fragile late-game control tools.

Possible replies to common counterarguments:

If someone says, “Changelings were already nerfed in this PTR,” my response is:

The PTR change reduces some Changeling clumping abuse, but it does not solve the fundamental issue. Zerg can still create the problem with very little attention, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up during late-game multitasking. The issue is not only the Changeling itself; the issue is the unequal attention trade it creates.

For the Ghost nerf argument:


I am not arguing that Ghosts should be buffed. I am arguing that stacking 3 supply, 100 HP, Light tag, and 75-energy Steady Targeting at the same time is too much. Terran late game is not carried by Ghosts alone. It relies on a fragile combination of Ghosts, Liberators, Siege Tanks, Vikings, Planetaries, Sensor Towers, and careful positioning. Liberators and Siege Tanks have already been repeatedly pressured by previous and current balance directions. If Ghosts are also heavily nerfed, Terran no longer has a fair late-game answer to Vipers, Infestors, Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and repeated Zerg remaxes.

Zerg has received several mechanical improvements, from Microbial Shroud becoming more practical, to Hydralisks gaining Lunge/Dash mobility, to Infestors and Vipers gaining more late-game utility. In comparison, Terran players are simply asking that their core late-game control unit not be hit by several major numerical nerfs at the same time. That is a fair and reasonable request.


This has to be one of the most biased posts I’ve seen in a long time. Talking about extra APM investment as a Terran is hilarious. This is something the other races have been dealing with for 16 years (drops, reapers, BCs - all require more micro from the opponent to counter). And your complaint is about changelings, a non-damaging unit that doesn’t fully come into play until the late mid-game or end-game.

On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.


You mean SC:BW has two terrans? What are you even talking about. You know they didn’t remove warpgate, right? It just comes online a bit later and is much faster when it does to compensate.

The amount of people complaining about changes that they haven’t tested at all and may not make it to the actual game is baffling.

Livin' this life like it was written.
Zidane
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States1691 Posts
3 hours ago
#55
Huge nerf for protoss - from research on Gate to the 50/50 all aggression is out the window
arcane1129
Profile Joined January 2011
United States272 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 16:35:09
2 hours ago
#56
On May 29 2026 17:57 WSH32 wrote:
Title: 5.0.16 PTR Feedback: Mass Changelings Still Create an Unfair Attention Trade, and Ghost Nerfs Go Too Far

After reading the 5.0.16 PTR patch notes, I still believe two major late-game balance issues are not being properly addressed: mass Changeling abuse and the over-nerfing of Ghosts.

The new Changeling change is a step, but it does not solve the core issue. Making Changelings inherit Overseer orders and causing nearby Changelings to die together may reduce some extreme cases, but Zerg can still generate large numbers of Changelings with very little extra attention. The opponent, especially Terran or Protoss, must manually identify and clear them while also defending expansions, watching for Nydus, controlling the main army, and preparing for a decisive late-game fight.

This creates an unfair attention and APM trade. The Zerg player spends very little attention to create the problem, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up. In late-game SC2, where one missed Nydus, one blocked army movement, or one distracted camera movement can decide the game, this mechanic becomes disproportionately powerful.

My proposed solution is simple: active Changelings should cost 1 supply, or there should be a strict active Changeling limit. I prefer the 1-supply solution because it does not nerf the Overseer’s intended roles: scouting, detection, and anti-invisibility. It only limits mass battlefield pollution and unfair attention trading.

The second issue is the Ghost. The 5.0.16 PTR change increases Ghost supply from 2 to 3, reduces HP from 125 to 100, and increases Steady Targeting energy cost from 50 to 75. A full-energy Ghost used to cast Steady Targeting four times. With 75 energy cost, it can only cast twice. That is a 50% reduction in immediate spell output.

This is especially problematic because late-game Terran depends heavily on Ghosts to survive against Vipers, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, and other high-value Zerg units. Zerg spellcasters, especially Vipers, can also replenish energy much more efficiently through Consume, while Ghosts must wait for energy to regenerate over time. Increasing Steady Targeting to 75 energy makes Terran’s ability to answer repeated Viper pressure much weaker.

This problem becomes even more serious when we remember that Ghosts are not the only Terran late-game tool that has been repeatedly targeted. Siege Tanks and Liberators have also been limited across recent balance directions. The Liberator in particular has been repeatedly pressured in the areas that matter most to its late-game role: range, zone control, and vision. Siege Tanks are also now being opened again to Abduct interaction in the PTR. If Ghosts are heavily nerfed at the same time, Terran will lose multiple layers of its late-game defensive and positional structure at once.

Meanwhile, Zerg has received several mechanical improvements to its late-game tools. Microbial Shroud has become a much more relevant anti-air protection tool, Hydralisks received Lunge/Dash-style mobility, Infestors continue to gain more practical utility, and now Vipers are again being given stronger interaction against Siege Tanks. These are not just small numerical changes; many of them are mechanical improvements that expand what Zerg units can do.

Terran players are not asking for a major new mechanic or a large buff. The request is much more modest: do not keep stacking targeted numerical nerfs onto the few units Terran still relies on to fight late-game Zerg. Keeping Ghosts at 2 supply and keeping Steady Targeting at 50 energy is not an unreasonable demand. It is necessary for Terran to retain a fair late-game fighting chance.

I believe Ghosts should remain 2 supply, and Steady Targeting should remain 50 energy. If Ghosts remain Light units, the 125 HP change should also remain. The damage does not need to be increased; the old 130 + 40 vs Psionic profile is acceptable. The one good change is that Steady Targeting no longer being cancelled by damage should stay, because that interaction should have been fixed long ago.

In short, my proposed changes are:

1. Limit mass Changeling abuse by making active Changelings cost 1 supply, or by adding a strict active Changeling cap.
2. Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
3. Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
4. If Ghosts remain Light, keep them at 125 HP.

These changes would address real late-game interaction problems without removing Terran’s already fragile late-game control tools.

Possible replies to common counterarguments:

If someone says, “Changelings were already nerfed in this PTR,” my response is:

The PTR change reduces some Changeling clumping abuse, but it does not solve the fundamental issue. Zerg can still create the problem with very little attention, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up during late-game multitasking. The issue is not only the Changeling itself; the issue is the unequal attention trade it creates.

For the Ghost nerf argument:


I am not arguing that Ghosts should be buffed. I am arguing that stacking 3 supply, 100 HP, Light tag, and 75-energy Steady Targeting at the same time is too much. Terran late game is not carried by Ghosts alone. It relies on a fragile combination of Ghosts, Liberators, Siege Tanks, Vikings, Planetaries, Sensor Towers, and careful positioning. Liberators and Siege Tanks have already been repeatedly pressured by previous and current balance directions. If Ghosts are also heavily nerfed, Terran no longer has a fair late-game answer to Vipers, Infestors, Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and repeated Zerg remaxes.

Zerg has received several mechanical improvements, from Microbial Shroud becoming more practical, to Hydralisks gaining Lunge/Dash mobility, to Infestors and Vipers gaining more late-game utility. In comparison, Terran players are simply asking that their core late-game control unit not be hit by several major numerical nerfs at the same time. That is a fair and reasonable request.


So you want to keep ghosts as-is except removing the cancellation of steady targeting upon taking damage? You say you're not arguing that ghosts should be buffed but that's a fairly large buff. Zerg's only counter to ghosts is hoping the terran doesn't control well against banes or to land a fungal (generally losing the infestor) and then committing a sizeable portion of their army into a defensive setup to kill a few ghosts. The shroud change doesn't help against anything that zerg struggles with in lategame TvZ and now you want to make it worse? The ghost is already over-centralized in the TvZ lategame - what counter would zerg even have left? Ghosts counter everything hard enough as it is now - every unit you named and more. According to aligulac TvZ has been terran favored every month except 1 (Nov 2024 which was still 48.9%) for nearly 3 years, and TvZ has been above 55% (peaking at 61.4%) for 10/16 individual months since January 2025. With the proposed changes, steady targeting would actually do more damage to non-psionic zerg units and have more standard damage + range but have fewer spell uses at a time, so I can see the logic. But it really comes down to the core issue of how over-centralizing ghosts are lategame TvZ and trying to focus just on ghost changes always keeps leading to the same issue of if they're broken or not good enough.

Addressing the patch itself:
I would have liked to see changes that increase the duration of fights, encourage fighting on multiple fronts, soften hard counters, reduce immediate game-ending consequences from common harassment (helps retain lower level players especially), and increase the variety of unit compositions at various stages of the game. I don't think this patch does much to help with those areas, and I'm not convinced that reducing starting workers will do much more than waste game-time.
Luolis
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Finland7174 Posts
2 hours ago
#57
On May 29 2026 23:41 Mizenhauer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2026 20:40 Luolis wrote:
Not a fan of the gateway changes at all. Economy changes on the other hand? Hell yeah


was waiting for this

Like clockwork
pro cheese woman / Its never Sunny in Finland. Perkele / FinnishStarcraftTrivia
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
398 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-05-29 17:04:58
2 hours ago
#58
If the intern is reading this, please consider (an option?) for F2 to ignore units on hold and/or patrol. Hold would make perfect sense imo

Also visual changes to EMP so it is easier to see, and Protoss door (though could be alleviated w/ the first suggestion)
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany16070 Posts
2 hours ago
#59
On May 30 2026 00:20 onPHYRE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 29 2026 17:57 WSH32 wrote:
Title: 5.0.16 PTR Feedback: Mass Changelings Still Create an Unfair Attention Trade, and Ghost Nerfs Go Too Far

After reading the 5.0.16 PTR patch notes, I still believe two major late-game balance issues are not being properly addressed: mass Changeling abuse and the over-nerfing of Ghosts.

The new Changeling change is a step, but it does not solve the core issue. Making Changelings inherit Overseer orders and causing nearby Changelings to die together may reduce some extreme cases, but Zerg can still generate large numbers of Changelings with very little extra attention. The opponent, especially Terran or Protoss, must manually identify and clear them while also defending expansions, watching for Nydus, controlling the main army, and preparing for a decisive late-game fight.

This creates an unfair attention and APM trade. The Zerg player spends very little attention to create the problem, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up. In late-game SC2, where one missed Nydus, one blocked army movement, or one distracted camera movement can decide the game, this mechanic becomes disproportionately powerful.

My proposed solution is simple: active Changelings should cost 1 supply, or there should be a strict active Changeling limit. I prefer the 1-supply solution because it does not nerf the Overseer’s intended roles: scouting, detection, and anti-invisibility. It only limits mass battlefield pollution and unfair attention trading.

The second issue is the Ghost. The 5.0.16 PTR change increases Ghost supply from 2 to 3, reduces HP from 125 to 100, and increases Steady Targeting energy cost from 50 to 75. A full-energy Ghost used to cast Steady Targeting four times. With 75 energy cost, it can only cast twice. That is a 50% reduction in immediate spell output.

This is especially problematic because late-game Terran depends heavily on Ghosts to survive against Vipers, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, and other high-value Zerg units. Zerg spellcasters, especially Vipers, can also replenish energy much more efficiently through Consume, while Ghosts must wait for energy to regenerate over time. Increasing Steady Targeting to 75 energy makes Terran’s ability to answer repeated Viper pressure much weaker.

This problem becomes even more serious when we remember that Ghosts are not the only Terran late-game tool that has been repeatedly targeted. Siege Tanks and Liberators have also been limited across recent balance directions. The Liberator in particular has been repeatedly pressured in the areas that matter most to its late-game role: range, zone control, and vision. Siege Tanks are also now being opened again to Abduct interaction in the PTR. If Ghosts are heavily nerfed at the same time, Terran will lose multiple layers of its late-game defensive and positional structure at once.

Meanwhile, Zerg has received several mechanical improvements to its late-game tools. Microbial Shroud has become a much more relevant anti-air protection tool, Hydralisks received Lunge/Dash-style mobility, Infestors continue to gain more practical utility, and now Vipers are again being given stronger interaction against Siege Tanks. These are not just small numerical changes; many of them are mechanical improvements that expand what Zerg units can do.

Terran players are not asking for a major new mechanic or a large buff. The request is much more modest: do not keep stacking targeted numerical nerfs onto the few units Terran still relies on to fight late-game Zerg. Keeping Ghosts at 2 supply and keeping Steady Targeting at 50 energy is not an unreasonable demand. It is necessary for Terran to retain a fair late-game fighting chance.

I believe Ghosts should remain 2 supply, and Steady Targeting should remain 50 energy. If Ghosts remain Light units, the 125 HP change should also remain. The damage does not need to be increased; the old 130 + 40 vs Psionic profile is acceptable. The one good change is that Steady Targeting no longer being cancelled by damage should stay, because that interaction should have been fixed long ago.

In short, my proposed changes are:

1. Limit mass Changeling abuse by making active Changelings cost 1 supply, or by adding a strict active Changeling cap.
2. Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
3. Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
4. If Ghosts remain Light, keep them at 125 HP.

These changes would address real late-game interaction problems without removing Terran’s already fragile late-game control tools.

Possible replies to common counterarguments:

If someone says, “Changelings were already nerfed in this PTR,” my response is:

The PTR change reduces some Changeling clumping abuse, but it does not solve the fundamental issue. Zerg can still create the problem with very little attention, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up during late-game multitasking. The issue is not only the Changeling itself; the issue is the unequal attention trade it creates.

For the Ghost nerf argument:


I am not arguing that Ghosts should be buffed. I am arguing that stacking 3 supply, 100 HP, Light tag, and 75-energy Steady Targeting at the same time is too much. Terran late game is not carried by Ghosts alone. It relies on a fragile combination of Ghosts, Liberators, Siege Tanks, Vikings, Planetaries, Sensor Towers, and careful positioning. Liberators and Siege Tanks have already been repeatedly pressured by previous and current balance directions. If Ghosts are also heavily nerfed, Terran no longer has a fair late-game answer to Vipers, Infestors, Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and repeated Zerg remaxes.

Zerg has received several mechanical improvements, from Microbial Shroud becoming more practical, to Hydralisks gaining Lunge/Dash mobility, to Infestors and Vipers gaining more late-game utility. In comparison, Terran players are simply asking that their core late-game control unit not be hit by several major numerical nerfs at the same time. That is a fair and reasonable request.


This has to be one of the most biased posts I’ve seen in a long time. Talking about extra APM investment as a Terran is hilarious. This is something the other races have been dealing with for 16 years (drops, reapers, BCs - all require more micro from the opponent to counter). And your complaint is about changelings, a non-damaging unit that doesn’t fully come into play until the late mid-game or end-game.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.


You mean SC:BW has two terrans? What are you even talking about. You know they didn’t remove warpgate, right? It just comes online a bit later and is much faster when it does to compensate.

The amount of people complaining about changes that they haven’t tested at all and may not make it to the actual game is baffling.


Yes I think in BW the races are less unique than in sc2 which is one of the reasons I prefersc2
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
TeamMamba
Profile Joined June 2025
219 Posts
1 hour ago
#60
On May 30 2026 01:47 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 30 2026 00:20 onPHYRE wrote:
On May 29 2026 17:57 WSH32 wrote:
Title: 5.0.16 PTR Feedback: Mass Changelings Still Create an Unfair Attention Trade, and Ghost Nerfs Go Too Far

After reading the 5.0.16 PTR patch notes, I still believe two major late-game balance issues are not being properly addressed: mass Changeling abuse and the over-nerfing of Ghosts.

The new Changeling change is a step, but it does not solve the core issue. Making Changelings inherit Overseer orders and causing nearby Changelings to die together may reduce some extreme cases, but Zerg can still generate large numbers of Changelings with very little extra attention. The opponent, especially Terran or Protoss, must manually identify and clear them while also defending expansions, watching for Nydus, controlling the main army, and preparing for a decisive late-game fight.

This creates an unfair attention and APM trade. The Zerg player spends very little attention to create the problem, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up. In late-game SC2, where one missed Nydus, one blocked army movement, or one distracted camera movement can decide the game, this mechanic becomes disproportionately powerful.

My proposed solution is simple: active Changelings should cost 1 supply, or there should be a strict active Changeling limit. I prefer the 1-supply solution because it does not nerf the Overseer’s intended roles: scouting, detection, and anti-invisibility. It only limits mass battlefield pollution and unfair attention trading.

The second issue is the Ghost. The 5.0.16 PTR change increases Ghost supply from 2 to 3, reduces HP from 125 to 100, and increases Steady Targeting energy cost from 50 to 75. A full-energy Ghost used to cast Steady Targeting four times. With 75 energy cost, it can only cast twice. That is a 50% reduction in immediate spell output.

This is especially problematic because late-game Terran depends heavily on Ghosts to survive against Vipers, Infestors, Ultralisks, Brood Lords, and other high-value Zerg units. Zerg spellcasters, especially Vipers, can also replenish energy much more efficiently through Consume, while Ghosts must wait for energy to regenerate over time. Increasing Steady Targeting to 75 energy makes Terran’s ability to answer repeated Viper pressure much weaker.

This problem becomes even more serious when we remember that Ghosts are not the only Terran late-game tool that has been repeatedly targeted. Siege Tanks and Liberators have also been limited across recent balance directions. The Liberator in particular has been repeatedly pressured in the areas that matter most to its late-game role: range, zone control, and vision. Siege Tanks are also now being opened again to Abduct interaction in the PTR. If Ghosts are heavily nerfed at the same time, Terran will lose multiple layers of its late-game defensive and positional structure at once.

Meanwhile, Zerg has received several mechanical improvements to its late-game tools. Microbial Shroud has become a much more relevant anti-air protection tool, Hydralisks received Lunge/Dash-style mobility, Infestors continue to gain more practical utility, and now Vipers are again being given stronger interaction against Siege Tanks. These are not just small numerical changes; many of them are mechanical improvements that expand what Zerg units can do.

Terran players are not asking for a major new mechanic or a large buff. The request is much more modest: do not keep stacking targeted numerical nerfs onto the few units Terran still relies on to fight late-game Zerg. Keeping Ghosts at 2 supply and keeping Steady Targeting at 50 energy is not an unreasonable demand. It is necessary for Terran to retain a fair late-game fighting chance.

I believe Ghosts should remain 2 supply, and Steady Targeting should remain 50 energy. If Ghosts remain Light units, the 125 HP change should also remain. The damage does not need to be increased; the old 130 + 40 vs Psionic profile is acceptable. The one good change is that Steady Targeting no longer being cancelled by damage should stay, because that interaction should have been fixed long ago.

In short, my proposed changes are:

1. Limit mass Changeling abuse by making active Changelings cost 1 supply, or by adding a strict active Changeling cap.
2. Keep Ghosts at 2 supply.
3. Keep Steady Targeting at 50 energy.
4. If Ghosts remain Light, keep them at 125 HP.

These changes would address real late-game interaction problems without removing Terran’s already fragile late-game control tools.

Possible replies to common counterarguments:

If someone says, “Changelings were already nerfed in this PTR,” my response is:

The PTR change reduces some Changeling clumping abuse, but it does not solve the fundamental issue. Zerg can still create the problem with very little attention, while the opponent must spend much more attention to clean it up during late-game multitasking. The issue is not only the Changeling itself; the issue is the unequal attention trade it creates.

For the Ghost nerf argument:


I am not arguing that Ghosts should be buffed. I am arguing that stacking 3 supply, 100 HP, Light tag, and 75-energy Steady Targeting at the same time is too much. Terran late game is not carried by Ghosts alone. It relies on a fragile combination of Ghosts, Liberators, Siege Tanks, Vikings, Planetaries, Sensor Towers, and careful positioning. Liberators and Siege Tanks have already been repeatedly pressured by previous and current balance directions. If Ghosts are also heavily nerfed, Terran no longer has a fair late-game answer to Vipers, Infestors, Brood Lords, Ultralisks, and repeated Zerg remaxes.

Zerg has received several mechanical improvements, from Microbial Shroud becoming more practical, to Hydralisks gaining Lunge/Dash mobility, to Infestors and Vipers gaining more late-game utility. In comparison, Terran players are simply asking that their core late-game control unit not be hit by several major numerical nerfs at the same time. That is a fair and reasonable request.


This has to be one of the most biased posts I’ve seen in a long time. Talking about extra APM investment as a Terran is hilarious. This is something the other races have been dealing with for 16 years (drops, reapers, BCs - all require more micro from the opponent to counter). And your complaint is about changelings, a non-damaging unit that doesn’t fully come into play until the late mid-game or end-game.

On May 29 2026 18:18 Charoisaur wrote:
So with the warpgate change they are effectively removing Protoss from the game and replacing it with terran 2.0.
I thought the great thing about sc2 was the asymmetrical design, now they want 2 races to work the same way?
Wish blizzard would just lock the key away for making changes before those community balance jesters manage to destroy the game.


You mean SC:BW has two terrans? What are you even talking about. You know they didn’t remove warpgate, right? It just comes online a bit later and is much faster when it does to compensate.

The amount of people complaining about changes that they haven’t tested at all and may not make it to the actual game is baffling.


Yes I think in BW the races are less unique than in sc2 which is one of the reasons I prefersc2


Also BW everything just feels so “slow”. I tried watching recent ASL, just couldn’t get into it. Everything seems sluggish

One good thing about BW is that you can make lots of mistakes and not lose the game instantly unlike sc2.
seopthi
Profile Blog Joined December 2014
398 Posts
48 minutes ago
#61
Compare the GSL and ASL finals. It is saddening that virtually every SC2 game is 3+bases automatically, that there is this superficial pretentious glorification of macro games, which all really look quite alike. There used to be exciting openings and exciting early games with Has' cheeses or Life's scrappy zergling games. That's all gone.

In the ASL finals we had at least 2 games with workers fighting in the beginning and crazy diversified openings; it is much more colorful
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