EPTEWC Starting Brackets Revealed - Page 2
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AlexGano
28 Posts
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
On July 11 2024 12:15 bela.mervado wrote: yeah i think it's a bit too complicated could have been 4 guys from open, then group stage RR of 4x 5 guys, top 2 into playoffs with KO bracket or the top 3 advancing: 4x #1 goes to ro8 waiting for 4 guys: 4x #2-#3 (=8) into 'ro16' winners to play group #1 s with double elim bracket current bracket feels a bit weird imagine imagine a contest with 6 groups of 4 each where top 2 advances and additionally best 4 of the #3s also advances (4 out of the 6 #3s) would be silly innit? This is possibly the least sensical bracket design I've ever seen in any game ever. When I first went to the liquipedia page, I saw a bracket. Then another bracket. Then scrolled down some more and there was another bracket. And wait, THEN AFTER ALL THAT, THERE'S A FINAL 4?? I also like how they have this completely random 2nd of 2nd loser dropdown in the "knockout" bracket. | ||
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bulldozer06701
153 Posts
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Gantz023
34 Posts
Good games are coming !!!! :D | ||
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radracer
United States74 Posts
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radracer
United States74 Posts
On July 12 2024 13:47 Gantz023 wrote: well....Koreans have enought time to prepare against Serral ...... OH WAIT !!!, prepare is only for GSL... im so stupid xD. Good games are coming !!!! :D Aww it's ok little guy, you'll figure out the difference between a weekend tournament and a league one day! In all seriousness, you have to dedicate prep for an entire bracket vs a small number of matches, or even one. No one thinks there is "Zero prep" for a weekender, it's a different kind of prep. But somehow people post and actually think that the argument is zero prep vs concentrated prep, then make silly premises like this, which is baffling. Even when we have so many examples of how hard it is for non GSL regulars to perform in GSL. | ||
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Blitzball04
191 Posts
On July 12 2024 14:18 radracer wrote: Aww it's ok little guy, you'll figure out the difference between a weekend tournament and a league one day! In all seriousness, you have to dedicate prep for an entire bracket vs a small number of matches, or even one. No one thinks there is "Zero prep" for a weekender, it's a different kind of prep. But somehow people post and actually think that the argument is zero prep vs concentrated prep, then make silly premises like this, which is baffling. Even when we have so many examples of how hard it is for non GSL regulars to perform in GSL. Lol GSL prep build is a myth. There has no prep build since 2017 every game is standard meta game. Once in a blue moon there might be a weird prep build. No one cares for GSL for years now, cause those Korean pros cares fighting for that 3K first place prize lol. The hardest tournaments to win are the ones with Serral | ||
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lokol4890
114 Posts
On July 13 2024 02:12 Blitzball04 wrote: Lol GSL prep build is a myth. There has no prep build since 2017 every game is standard meta game. Once in a blue moon there might be a weird prep build. No one cares for GSL for years now, cause those Korean pros cares fighting for that 3K first place prize lol. The hardest tournaments to win are the ones with Serral Without caring they still keep kicking reynor out in the group stages, the same guy who's won plenty of tournaments that serral has attended | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26531 Posts
On July 13 2024 02:24 lokol4890 wrote: Without caring they still keep kicking reynor out in the group stages, the same guy who's won plenty of tournaments that serral has attended Not massively because of prep though if memory serves, and it may not. I think only Gumiho that I remember seemed to have much of a specific anti-Reynor plan last time around. herO just played his usual game and was the better player on the day. Reynor being on a bit of a slump feels far more the reason he failed to make it out of groups in 2 attempts than him being sniped by superior preparation overall. Any big international tournament where you know brackets week in advance will have just as much prep opportunities as a GSL group stage nowadays. And as the Ro4 and finals are done in one go now, the prep now goes from 3 potential opponents rather than a laser focused window to hoodwink a singular player. | ||
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
On July 12 2024 14:18 radracer wrote: Aww it's ok little guy, you'll figure out the difference between a weekend tournament and a league one day! In all seriousness, you have to dedicate prep for an entire bracket vs a small number of matches, or even one. No one thinks there is "Zero prep" for a weekender, it's a different kind of prep. But somehow people post and actually think that the argument is zero prep vs concentrated prep, then make silly premises like this, which is baffling. Even when we have so many examples of how hard it is for non GSL regulars to perform in GSL. Serral is the most prepped for player by a mile. They are prepping for him as if he is their next GSL match. The only difference is now there is actual large amount of money on the line (which should serve as more motivation). There is no winning this tournament, the largest cash prize in the history of the game, without beating Serral. So everyone is prepping for this eventuality. No one is randomly prepping for Coffee for example. It’s pretty easy to understand. Prep isn’t magically different. This has even been touched on by the pros themselves. | ||
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radracer
United States74 Posts
Serral is the most prepped for player by a mile. They are prepping for him as if he is their next GSL match. The only difference is now there is actual large amount of money on the line (which should serve as more motivation). There is no winning this tournament, the largest cash prize in the history of the game, without beating Serral. So everyone is prepping for this eventuality. No one is randomly prepping for Coffee for example. It’s pretty easy to understand. Prep isn’t magically different. This has even been touched on by the pros themselves. Again, no one is saying no one prepares on a weekender. Do you understand the difference in the difficulties of: Weekender: Prepping for Serral + playing through an entire bracket of players, and/or preparing/practicing for an entire bracket and/or specific players in that bracket if necessary. versus Starleague: only preparing for Serral and/or 1 or 2 other players? It's not that hard of a concept, thinking that a league and a weekender are exactly the same is just a fallacy, period. This is why weekender CHAMPS have come to GSL and got canned, straight up. It's not because they're all the sudden bad, it's because of the format. Have you ever played in a sports league versus an all day weekend tournament? It's very different, both from a mental and a stamina standpoint. My guess is no but if you did, think about it like that. | ||
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lokol4890
114 Posts
On July 13 2024 02:54 WombaT wrote: Not massively because of prep though if memory serves, and it may not. I think only Gumiho that I remember seemed to have much of a specific anti-Reynor plan last time around. herO just played his usual game and was the better player on the day. Reynor being on a bit of a slump feels far more the reason he failed to make it out of groups in 2 attempts than him being sniped by superior preparation overall. Any big international tournament where you know brackets week in advance will have just as much prep opportunities as a GSL group stage nowadays. And as the Ro4 and finals are done in one go now, the prep now goes from 3 potential opponents rather than a laser focused window to hoodwink a singular player. I have no arguments one way or the other for how much prep goes in gsl nowadays so I'll agree on your points regarding that. Just a little pushback though on reynor specifically. Prior to him losing in groups most recently, I could've sworn the general consensus was he was doing well and getting out of the slump. Now ofc all that turned on its head as soon as he lost and everyone went back to "reynor is in a slump." And there is something to be said that slumping reynor still placed deeper in esl europe with massive ping than gsl without ping. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1277 Posts
On July 13 2024 06:41 radracer wrote: Again, no one is saying no one prepares on a weekender. Do you understand the difference in the difficulties of: Weekender: Prepping for Serral + playing through an entire bracket of players, and/or preparing/practicing for an entire bracket and/or specific players in that bracket if necessary. versus Starleague: only preparing for Serral and/or 1 or 2 other players? It's not that hard of a concept, thinking that a league and a weekender are exactly the same is just a fallacy, period. This is why weekender CHAMPS have come to GSL and got canned, straight up. It's not because they're all the sudden bad, it's because of the format. Have you ever played in a sports league versus an all day weekend tournament? It's very different, both from a mental and a stamina standpoint. My guess is no but if you did, think about it like that. They are different, but GSL-Format isn't 100% "harder". For one, if it was harder, the people winning it would also constantly win weekenders against Serral in the "easier format". But more importantly, it is a different kind of preparation. Yes, you can say "you have weeks to prepare for 2-3 opponents, that is so hard"...but it also means you ONLY have to prepare for 2-3 opponents, which is pretty easy. For weekenders however, you have to prepare for everyone and need to be able to makie adjustments throughout the tournament. An example for that is Showtimes win against Bunny in the Last Chance Qualifier (their second match). Showtime clearly adjusted himself to Bunny, learned from their previous set and got huge advantages just through build orders. Bunny however did not adjust himself at all, he just straight up tried the same things that kinda worked out in their first set. With the EWC format, there will be plenty of room for that. So if you really just go in thinking "nah, I just wing it LUL" you will probably have a rude awakening. | ||
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radracer
United States74 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On July 13 2024 02:54 WombaT wrote: Not massively because of prep though if memory serves, and it may not. I think only Gumiho that I remember seemed to have much of a specific anti-Reynor plan last time around. herO just played his usual game and was the better player on the day. Gumiho said he planned those mech games against Reynor specifically. Which he was definitely correct to do considering even now, months later, Reynor is making videos saying he doesn't know how to beat that style of mech. But it's not just him, Bunny sniped Reynor out of the GSL with the same tank pushes on multiple maps, he clearly figured a gap in Reynor's game. DRG even beat him opening 12 pool. Even if it's not a specific cheese or snipe build, games in GSL will feature preparation. You can prepare specific matchups, you have the time to watch an opponents replays and work out builds. herO might have played his usual style but he would have spent time picking and practicing builds for just Reynor | ||
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Gantz023
34 Posts
In the interview with Hero he said it clearly... when he thinks he can find a small Rift and take advantage to win a game... when he plays against Serral in a tournament he is simply another beast. He feels like he can't do anything. In a game where 95% of the games are standard......the master of the standards will be the favorite. Personally I LOVE Reynor but... he is far from achieving the consistency in his game, scout, even build preparation that Serral has. | ||
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tigera6
3482 Posts
On July 13 2024 13:49 Gantz023 wrote: Dont get me wrong... u prepare against someone knowing his weakness, as example they have mentioned Reynor has been very open in saying what are the things he has problems dealing with. Serral on the other hand (apparently) has no problem going to the Late game... or mech... no problem... how do you prepare against that? first u must find the weakness to prepare against. Can anyone tell how to prepare against that? In the interview with Hero he said it clearly... when he thinks he can find a small Rift and take advantage to win a game... when he plays against Serral in a tournament he is simply another beast. He feels like he can't do anything. In a game where 95% of the games are standard......the master of the standards will be the favorite. Personally I LOVE Reynor but... he is far from achieving the consistency in his game, scout, even build preparation that Serral has. I wouldnt say herO is an example of playing the prep build, he just decide on whatever build he feels like it at the moment. Having said that, the issue with prepped against Serral is that there is no Zerg playing like Serral at the moment, and I doubt any Zerg would switch their playstyle just to help other players to practice against Serral even if they were teammate. Dark is the closest one what can match certain aspect of Serral playstyle, but hes not on any team, and I doubt he would try to help any other players by practicing with them and also allow them to prep for Dark himself. So basically to prep against Serral, you have to play a bunch of games against Serral himself. And thats why the 2 guys who have given Serral a good run for his money are Clem and Oliveira. Clem plays against Serral on ladder a bunch of time, so he got pretty used to it by now, and Oliveira has been Serral practice partner in recent time. Imo Maru has the mechanics to play even against Serral but his in-game decision making has been terrible, not just against Serral but also against Dark in the GSL Final. And its not helping that Maru teammate is Solar, playing the almost opposite Zerg style as Serral/Dark in ZvT. | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10366 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1277 Posts
On July 13 2024 14:23 Yoshi Kirishima wrote: Bo9 is amazing cus now we can see Serral 5-0 Maru Maru: "No one 4-0s me thrice in one year!" Serral: "Hehe, 5-0 goes brrrr" | ||
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
On July 13 2024 06:41 radracer wrote: Again, no one is saying no one prepares on a weekender. Do you understand the difference in the difficulties of: Weekender: Prepping for Serral + playing through an entire bracket of players, and/or preparing/practicing for an entire bracket and/or specific players in that bracket if necessary. versus Starleague: only preparing for Serral and/or 1 or 2 other players? It's not that hard of a concept, thinking that a league and a weekender are exactly the same is just a fallacy, period. This is why weekender CHAMPS have come to GSL and got canned, straight up. It's not because they're all the sudden bad, it's because of the format. Have you ever played in a sports league versus an all day weekend tournament? It's very different, both from a mental and a stamina standpoint. My guess is no but if you did, think about it like that. Your entire argument is based on the fact that in a weekender you have less time to prepare for the next round, except that’s not how these pros prepare and if you look at any recent interviews you would realize that the prep for a weekender and a GSL really is not that different. Everyone in Serral’s quarterof the bracket is preparing for him as if he is in their GSL group, because they are just as likely to play him as if they were in his GSL group. Everyone else in the tournament is preparing for their group and Maru/Serral. It’s not a difficult concept to understand. Just because Serral isn’t your next match doesn’t mean you aren’t spending at least a large portion of your time preparing as if he is. That’s how it works at the highest level. Like I said, no one is preparing for Spirit and Coffee in the same way they are Serral (no offense to them). It’s not a hard concept to understand. There isn’t some magical barrier to the way you prep just because you have an extra week or two in GSL. This is a $1 million dollar tournament. Last place is making more than the GSL champion.. If you don’t think they are prepping for him as if this was GSL x10 you literally have no idea what it means to be a pro gamer. You don’t need to take my word on any of this.. go watch some interviews. Or better yet watch what has happened to Maru when he plays Serral (who he preps for as his next opponent in every international tournament and has stated so himself). | ||
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