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On July 19 2024 16:58 radracer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2024 20:27 Harris1st wrote:On July 18 2024 07:08 radracer wrote: All I wanna say is performing better or worse in one event doesn't mean that tournament is easier or harder. There are way more factors which affecting the result of any individual player other than "prep format or not". That's all. You're not doing a very good job of that- you'd fail a debate 100 class the way you're going about it. Saying "Maru got SMASHED" in tournaments where he gets 2nd place is hyperbolic and hurts your argument. Maru getting #1 in GSL and #2 in big weekenders is less of a variance than Reynor getting 0-4'ed in GSL and doing whatever 5-8th in weekenders. I'd be interested in this exercise: How many weekender champs have never won a GSL. (INCLUDING Koreans, since there aren't enough foreign entrants to GSL) vs how many GSL champs have won weekenders. I'm not going to do the work/research though, lol. My guess is advantage goes to more GSL champs have also been weekender champs. With Serral winning like half of the weekenders and not participating in GSL, this exercise is doomed to fail  On July 17 2024 15:43 WombaT wrote:
I think Serral is in a different category entirely and could conceivably go and Royal Road it, he’s just so resilient and consistent. . He'd do it with a ridiculous mapscore while at it. It looks like most GSL champs have won weekenders, but not vice versa. Pretty good exercise to me. Also, Serral hasn't won half the weekenders in SC2, maybe he has since you've been watching? IDK Chances Serral royal rotors it will get better the longer he delays going to GSL, but there's also a good chance he 0-4's out like Reynor, no one knows. So far his competitive drive hasn't taken him to Korea.
Keep lying to yourself “no no Serral will be knocked out in group stage” after seeing GSL winners getting smashed by Serral over and over again.
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On August 07 2024 23:43 lokol4890 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2024 22:57 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 19 2024 11:27 Gantz023 wrote:On July 18 2024 07:08 radracer wrote: All I wanna say is performing better or worse in one event doesn't mean that tournament is easier or harder. There are way more factors which affecting the result of any individual player other than "prep format or not". That's all. You're not doing a very good job of that- you'd fail a debate 100 class the way you're going about it. Saying "Maru got SMASHED" in tournaments where he gets 2nd place is hyperbolic and hurts your argument. Maru getting #1 in GSL and #2 in big weekenders is less of a variance than Reynor getting 0-4'ed in GSL and doing whatever 5-8th in weekenders. I'd be interested in this exercise: How many weekender champs have never won a GSL. (INCLUDING Koreans, since there aren't enough foreign entrants to GSL) vs how many GSL champs have won weekenders. I'm not going to do the work/research though, lol. My guess is advantage goes to more GSL champs have also been weekender champs. I can tell you why Maru has won weekend tournaments and Serral has not won a GSL. 1.- Going on a weekend is not a big sacrifice to earn 30,000 dollars. 2.- go live for 2 months in a completely different country, far from your family, a language that you could not understand in 2 months of practice, where the cost of living is extremely expensive for a prize of 3,000 dollars for winning the entire event xd. Anyone who can do the math realizes why Koreans go out to play on the weekends and "foreigners" don't go in large numbers to compete in GSL. Can you imagine if the GSL were played in Europe? same prize money, same preparation times, how many Koreans would we see traveling???? I assure you... none... because IT IS NOT PROFITABLE. We, as fans, ... would love to see Serral Go... but for him it means nothing at all... only financial losses and loss of valuable time with his family and his people. It is a healthy, mature and prudent decision. Serral already has won 2 GSL with 100% win rate Whereas Maru and some of the Koreans indeed has won weekender but after how many tries? Safe to assume less than 25% win rate. Not that impressive. I know the Koreans fanboys like to clown reynor for choking in the GSL. as a sort of flex or meme. But it’s not that much as a flex as they think it is. What’s Maru win rate attending weekender? Around 10%. His GSL win rate? Around 20%. Quite good if compare to his Korean peers. But quite weak when compare to Serral win rate. There are levels to this There are also levels between glorified showmatches (gsl v. the world) and gsl proper, yet here we are...
There are also levels between GSL and EWC/IEM/WCS and Maru hasn’t won and a single of any of the latter.
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On July 18 2024 15:15 radracer wrote:Show nested quote +
Am I in a debating competition? you pick up fight with me regarding “ohh how dare you not including some key words and downplayed Maru’s achievement by mistake?” So funny!
And your Math teacher will be mad since you simply ignored the fact that GSL is the only choice to win in one set and “all weekenders” contains far more tournaments. The sample sizes are not even comparable so even if more people won weekenders but not GSL than the number who won GSL but not weekenders, doesn’t give you conclusion of GSL is harder, understand?
Also if you need example your idle Maru is just a perfect one, who never won global final or IEM Katowice (yes they are weekenders) but won a bunch of GSL
I didn't pick any fight nor did I originally bring up the argument, that was someone else. But I observed this, and you're in a discussion, so yeah. If you want to have a good one, that's a suggestion. It seems like you're taking it super personally, and are invested rather than just enjoying the discussion. "My idle Maru" well He's not my idol or even my favorite player, I hate Terran in SC1, lol. I haven't had a favorite player for a while now, since probably HuK. Still a SC fan first and foremost, & always will be. Anyways clearly this is your assumption due to the aforementioned personal biases. Not everything is a Maru vs Serral Debate. That aside, Maru has won weekenders, high level / premiere ones at that. Regardless of the the "world championship" label the tournaments are of the same quality players. Would be sick to see if Serral could win a GSL even in the weaker korean scene due to lack of interest, but who knows if he will ever have that desire. <edited out some flaming/trash talk, not really productive>
You can question Real Madrid for if this club can win a primier league or not. But you can’t question Real Madrid’s prestigiousness and rank by saying “it is not participating in premier league”. If RM defeat Liverpool (top 4), Arsenal (top 2) and swept Man City (champion) in champions league there’s no question RM is the best the world, and there’s no question RM is the best club in history for winning the most champion league.
Who cares if RM can win a premier league or not? Does it really matter?
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Now that everybody is trying their hand in Stormgate (even Clem i just learned!) I wonder how much it mixes up the levels of play and prep in EWC.
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On August 09 2024 03:25 bulldozer06701 wrote:
Now that everybody is trying their hand in Stormgate (even Clem i just learned!) I wonder how much it mixes up the levels of play and prep in EWC.
The winner of the next big announced Stormgate-tournament gets 800$...you would need to be batshit crazy to focus on Stormgate instead of the EWC... AoE 4 had much bigger prizemoney right off the bat and even that didn't particularly catch many SC2-players.
With Clem I assume he just played the Tasteless-Invitational because he was in Korea anyway? Or is he actually really focusing on Stormgate right now?
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On August 08 2024 22:43 njleslu2024 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2024 23:43 lokol4890 wrote:On August 07 2024 22:57 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 19 2024 11:27 Gantz023 wrote:On July 18 2024 07:08 radracer wrote: All I wanna say is performing better or worse in one event doesn't mean that tournament is easier or harder. There are way more factors which affecting the result of any individual player other than "prep format or not". That's all. You're not doing a very good job of that- you'd fail a debate 100 class the way you're going about it. Saying "Maru got SMASHED" in tournaments where he gets 2nd place is hyperbolic and hurts your argument. Maru getting #1 in GSL and #2 in big weekenders is less of a variance than Reynor getting 0-4'ed in GSL and doing whatever 5-8th in weekenders. I'd be interested in this exercise: How many weekender champs have never won a GSL. (INCLUDING Koreans, since there aren't enough foreign entrants to GSL) vs how many GSL champs have won weekenders. I'm not going to do the work/research though, lol. My guess is advantage goes to more GSL champs have also been weekender champs. I can tell you why Maru has won weekend tournaments and Serral has not won a GSL. 1.- Going on a weekend is not a big sacrifice to earn 30,000 dollars. 2.- go live for 2 months in a completely different country, far from your family, a language that you could not understand in 2 months of practice, where the cost of living is extremely expensive for a prize of 3,000 dollars for winning the entire event xd. Anyone who can do the math realizes why Koreans go out to play on the weekends and "foreigners" don't go in large numbers to compete in GSL. Can you imagine if the GSL were played in Europe? same prize money, same preparation times, how many Koreans would we see traveling???? I assure you... none... because IT IS NOT PROFITABLE. We, as fans, ... would love to see Serral Go... but for him it means nothing at all... only financial losses and loss of valuable time with his family and his people. It is a healthy, mature and prudent decision. Serral already has won 2 GSL with 100% win rate Whereas Maru and some of the Koreans indeed has won weekender but after how many tries? Safe to assume less than 25% win rate. Not that impressive. I know the Koreans fanboys like to clown reynor for choking in the GSL. as a sort of flex or meme. But it’s not that much as a flex as they think it is. What’s Maru win rate attending weekender? Around 10%. His GSL win rate? Around 20%. Quite good if compare to his Korean peers. But quite weak when compare to Serral win rate. There are levels to this There are also levels between glorified showmatches (gsl v. the world) and gsl proper, yet here we are... There are also levels between GSL and EWC/IEM/WCS and Maru hasn’t won and a single of any of the latter.
Only recently. In 2013 an OSL(or GSL) was harder to win than Blizzcon. Even in 2018 I would rate GSL harder to win by format/player pool but Blizzcon equals it due to the prize pool increasing player effort.
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Clem doesn't even need to practice any RTS game, or any top sc pro for that matter, and will beat 99.9% of people. So I wouldn't worry that he's sinking a ton of hours into it lol.
I don't really follow aoe4 but werent a lot of the top players retired/older sc players. Ie marinelord demuslim beastyqt etc.
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On August 09 2024 03:42 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2024 03:25 bulldozer06701 wrote:
Now that everybody is trying their hand in Stormgate (even Clem i just learned!) I wonder how much it mixes up the levels of play and prep in EWC. The winner of the next big announced Stormgate-tournament gets 800$...you would need to be batshit crazy to focus on Stormgate instead of the EWC... AoE 4 had much bigger prizemoney right off the bat and even that didn't particularly catch many SC2-players. With Clem I assume he just played the Tasteless-Invitational because he was in Korea anyway? Or is he actually really focusing on Stormgate right now?
No way clem is really focusing on stormgate. I view him playing stormgate in the same lens as maru, byun, and reynor playing the Wardi group tournament, an interesting and fun escape from the 1v1 grind in prep for ewc
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On August 09 2024 04:51 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2024 22:43 njleslu2024 wrote:On August 07 2024 23:43 lokol4890 wrote:On August 07 2024 22:57 Blitzball04 wrote:On July 19 2024 11:27 Gantz023 wrote:On July 18 2024 07:08 radracer wrote: All I wanna say is performing better or worse in one event doesn't mean that tournament is easier or harder. There are way more factors which affecting the result of any individual player other than "prep format or not". That's all. You're not doing a very good job of that- you'd fail a debate 100 class the way you're going about it. Saying "Maru got SMASHED" in tournaments where he gets 2nd place is hyperbolic and hurts your argument. Maru getting #1 in GSL and #2 in big weekenders is less of a variance than Reynor getting 0-4'ed in GSL and doing whatever 5-8th in weekenders. I'd be interested in this exercise: How many weekender champs have never won a GSL. (INCLUDING Koreans, since there aren't enough foreign entrants to GSL) vs how many GSL champs have won weekenders. I'm not going to do the work/research though, lol. My guess is advantage goes to more GSL champs have also been weekender champs. I can tell you why Maru has won weekend tournaments and Serral has not won a GSL. 1.- Going on a weekend is not a big sacrifice to earn 30,000 dollars. 2.- go live for 2 months in a completely different country, far from your family, a language that you could not understand in 2 months of practice, where the cost of living is extremely expensive for a prize of 3,000 dollars for winning the entire event xd. Anyone who can do the math realizes why Koreans go out to play on the weekends and "foreigners" don't go in large numbers to compete in GSL. Can you imagine if the GSL were played in Europe? same prize money, same preparation times, how many Koreans would we see traveling???? I assure you... none... because IT IS NOT PROFITABLE. We, as fans, ... would love to see Serral Go... but for him it means nothing at all... only financial losses and loss of valuable time with his family and his people. It is a healthy, mature and prudent decision. Serral already has won 2 GSL with 100% win rate Whereas Maru and some of the Koreans indeed has won weekender but after how many tries? Safe to assume less than 25% win rate. Not that impressive. I know the Koreans fanboys like to clown reynor for choking in the GSL. as a sort of flex or meme. But it’s not that much as a flex as they think it is. What’s Maru win rate attending weekender? Around 10%. His GSL win rate? Around 20%. Quite good if compare to his Korean peers. But quite weak when compare to Serral win rate. There are levels to this There are also levels between glorified showmatches (gsl v. the world) and gsl proper, yet here we are... There are also levels between GSL and EWC/IEM/WCS and Maru hasn’t won and a single of any of the latter. Only recently. In 2013 an OSL(or GSL) was harder to win than Blizzcon. Even in 2018 I would rate GSL harder to win by format/player pool but Blizzcon equals it due to the prize pool increasing player effort.
Chinese national Table Tennis tournament is harder to win than Table Tennis in Olympic games, does it matter Olympics games are worth more than national prizes?
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On August 07 2024 16:52 Kreuger wrote:
I wonder when they are going to release the casters etc for the event.
Im sure it will mostly be the same, but still.
Only ones that im sure of atm is rotterdam and artosis
Announced now on liquipedia
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On August 12 2024 14:26 bulldozer06701 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2024 16:52 Kreuger wrote:
I wonder when they are going to release the casters etc for the event.
Im sure it will mostly be the same, but still.
Only ones that im sure of atm is rotterdam and artosis Announced now on liquipedia
Yeah saw it on reddit a few dags ago. Looking solid
Wednesday cant come soon enough, perfect to end your vacation with this :D
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On August 12 2024 14:26 bulldozer06701 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2024 16:52 Kreuger wrote:
I wonder when they are going to release the casters etc for the event.
Im sure it will mostly be the same, but still.
Only ones that im sure of atm is rotterdam and artosis Announced now on liquipedia
Looks awesome! Only thing I would change would probably be put Harstem together with Lambo as analysts. This is not meant as a slight against State, just that Harambo is awesome
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On August 12 2024 17:04 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2024 14:26 bulldozer06701 wrote:On August 07 2024 16:52 Kreuger wrote:
I wonder when they are going to release the casters etc for the event.
Im sure it will mostly be the same, but still.
Only ones that im sure of atm is rotterdam and artosis Announced now on liquipedia Looks awesome! Only thing I would change would probably be put Harstem together with Lambo as analysts. This is not meant as a slight against State, just that Harambo is awesome
State-Lambo could be good, looking forward to this duo
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Group B definitely seems harder with 4 of the top 6 contenders imo, for championship. Namely Serral, herO, Solar, Reynor. The other two being Maru and Dark.
Also, why is Group A so Terran-heavy, I guess this tournament is majority Terran. Like what someone said, Dark is gonna be eating Terran for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and snack.
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Given soju (alcohol) is illegal in the country, it's gonna be hard chugging down all those Terrans.
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EPT
