I m thinking most of changes in this balance server must be oriented with functions of units, and not statistics (except for Lurkers which is a shame for beginners and casuals). This thread is here to list the changes with direct consequences on gameplay. Changes which affects a specific build order or end game are also listed below.
List of overall changes :
- Corrosives Biles decrease FF by - 6 seconds === "Help Toss to cover ground" - Observers are avaible in warpgates building (need Cybernetics core) === "Help Toss to deny creep spread" - Roach burrow allows them to pass cliffs === "Enhance the function of Roachs" - Widow mines cargo size increased to 3 === "Avoid abusive drops" - Ground terrain unsuitable for buildings === "Improve strategy" - Infestor get a weak auto-attack === "helps Zergs control their units better"
List of specifics changes against specifics build order or in end game (mostly air toss) :
- Grab by vipers only none massive units === "Avoid abusive use"
Just add your toughts, concept and put in context , explaining part of the game you wish to less or more see. Then i will add to the list if the idea is enought convincing people.
-Infestor get a weak auto-attack === "helps Zergs control their units better" -Warpprism cost decreased to 200 minerals === "encourages aggressive Protoss tactics" -Hallucinations now have same HP as real units === "encourages creative Protoss tactics" -Marine gains + 1 range === "helps Terrans who struggle with winning games" -Collossus gains a headbutt ability vs air === "helps Protoss vs air switches and liberator contains"
Hallucinated units can be used to soak up damage on the front lines of a players army, but not so much. Cost of units are part of their statistics, i would add any of this kind of changes, but i added the infestator auto-attack
On March 30 2022 21:16 Vision_ wrote: I m thinking most of changes in this balance server must be oriented with functions of units, and not statistics (except for Lurkers which is a shame for beginners and casuals). This thread is here to list the changes with direct consequences on gameplay. Changes which affects a specific build order or end game are also listed below.
- Corrosives Biles decrease FF by - 6 seconds === "Help Toss to cover ground" - Observers are avaible in warpgates building (need Cybernetics core) === "Help Toss to deny creep spread" - Roach burrow allows them to pass cliffs === "Enhance the function of Roachs" - Widow mines cargo size increased to 3 === "Avoid abusive drops" - Ground terrain unsuitable for buildings === "Improve strategy" - Infestor get a weak auto-attack === "helps Zergs control their units better"
List of specifics changes against specifics build order or in end game (mostly air toss) :
- Grab by vipers only none massive units === "Avoid abusive use"
Just add your toughts, concept and put in context , explaining part of the game you wish to less or more see. Then i will add to the list if the idea is enought convincing people.
ps : thank you if you can correct my vocabulary
Roaches have enough use already and this would make them INCREDIBLE ABUSIVE UNITS. NO Viper without massive abduct ... what would leave that? Ghosts, tanks and Immortals? Thats about it right? Don't think it is so easy as to say "no massive". Besides every race has a counterplay to Vipers.
I said that in the other balance thread - I would start with economy. Something we discussed heavily before LotV but kind of died off after LotV released. So I would say:
* More linear degrading of mining efficency as the worker count increases * Slightly lower mining rate overall
Games have shown that doing the above does not have a tremendous impact on the game and it still plays more-or-less the same. However, it does have a slight impact on build orders at the highest level and may encourage more aggressive expanding with non-max worker count. It also slightly helps recovery after being harassed in the mineral line.
Also I would suggest: double the supply cost and max cap of every unit except workers. This could also give a possibility of more fine-grained supply cost balance, as 1+1/2 or 2+1/2 would simply map to a whole (odd) number.
I don't really think it's possible they'll make these changes, but still fun to talk about. -I think a great lurker solution is just to give them an unburrow time. -Let colossus "lower" it's head for a movement speed/range reduction.
- Abduct on massive units decreases pull by 50%. This would keep it relevant while allowing massive abducted units to be a bit closer to their armies and give them a bit more of a chance to be micro'd away.
- Force Field requires 2 Corrosive Biles to break, keeps Corrosive powerful vs. Protoss without gimping Force Fields so hard, hopefully with a strengthened Sentry early game Protoss aggression could be a bit stronger.
- Reduce Ghost EMP upgrade size by a tiny bit, not too much though otherwise might as well remove it but it's pretty damn big when upgraded, seems kind of imba.
- Revert Protoss upgrade cost nerfs, it's a bygone nerf from a bygone era for bygone balance issues, if this nerf was even justifiable at all, probably not.
- Revert Warp Prism nerf, same reason as the upgrade nerf really just a dumb ass knee jerk nerf with no real justification, certainly none now.
- Something to make mech a teeny bit stronger vs. Zerg without making it imba. Perhaps some type of upgrade cost and time reduction? Just to shake up the variety in top level ZvT a bit, mech usually get's rofl stomped by top Zergs pretty hard and it's actually fun to see a mech game here or there in a BO5 or 7.
- The Lurker is probably fine at this point, I think a look into their bonus vs armored might be justified though, the unit looks and feels incredibly agile for a supposed siege unit but it's kind of in a weird spot where it's a bit strong vs. Protoss but Terrans have lots of counter play to it, so any nerfs need to be very ZvP oriented because Ghosts are already very strong vs Lurkers.
On March 31 2022 08:30 Jerubaal wrote: -Let colossus "lower" it's head for a movement speed/range reduction.
I liked this idea so much that I had to photoshop what it would look like. Obviously the legs would need to be a bit more spread out but I think it looks awesome!!!
Oh how I missed these Vision threads. Thanks mate this is gold !
My suggestions: - All units get teleport ability like BC does. Would help make super fun gameplay for sure. - Baneling blink is a must as currently its too hard to control them and make them kill everything on the map - Marine stim should not decrease their health to compensate for the baneling change. Also stim upgrade stacks infinitely = you always get a new stats upgrade with each stim - As for much needed protoss buffs, I think the only change we really need is for a disruption nova explosion to be triggered every time a protoss unit dies. Or if devs would be willing to do something more creative then a black hole could be created sucking in all the units in a specific radius. This would make other races not want to attack protoss thus we get higher probability of a toss champion
I think this would solve most isses we are currently facing in the game. Easy.
- Make researchable upgrade 'Medivac Afterburners' a win condition for Terran, but don't announce it === "Would tremendously help casual TvP winrate without affecting pro play" - Make losing your first Reaper up to 2 minutes after building it a win condition for Terran, but don't announce it === "Would tremendously help casual TvZ winrate without affecting pro play"
On March 31 2022 16:09 MarianoSC2 wrote: Oh how I missed these Vision threads. Thanks mate this is gold !
My suggestions: - All units get teleport ability like BC does. Would help make super fun gameplay for sure. - Baneling blink is a must as currently its too hard to control them and make them kill everything on the map - Marine stim should not decrease their health to compensate for the baneling change. Also stim upgrade stacks infinitely = you always get a new stats upgrade with each stim - As for much needed protoss buffs, I think the only change we really need is for a disruption nova explosion to be triggered every time a protoss unit dies. Or if devs would be willing to do something more creative then a black hole could be created sucking in all the units in a specific radius. This would make other races not want to attack protoss thus we get higher probability of a toss champion
I think this would solve most isses we are currently facing in the game. Easy.
Some people here have fun with my opinions but when i talked about for example roachs against zealots, people just react saying roachs are bullshit. I know how good roachs can be.
-Eliminate BC teleport -Reduce disruptor ball speed slightly -F2 grabs Queens and Observers (remove obs mode for overseers and observers) -Control group max of 64 units
To make defensive late-game Zerg less strong at the pro-level : - Vipers can't abduct heroic unit (mothership) - Vipers abduct pull on massive units decreases by 50%
Wishful thinking for making the game more fun and dynamic : - Battle cruisers yamato cannon deals 50 splash damage (radius of 2) - New tactical nuke "supersonic boost" upgrade at the ghost acadamy - costs 150/150, 45 seconds research time - reduces tactical nuke duration from 14 seconds to 11 seconds - Reapers KD8 Charge damage increased to 15 (from 5) - but takes 1.5 more second to detonate and its cooldown increases to 20 seconds (from 14 seconds) - Strategic Recall duration decreased from 4 seconds to 2 seconds - New Ultralisk "frenzy" ability makes him attack 2 times faster - but reduces his armor to 0 (duration : 6 seconds, cooldown : 60 seconds)
To make defensive late-game Zerg less strong at the pro-level : - Vipers can't abduct heroic unit (mothership) - Vipers abduct pull on massive units decreases by 50%
Corrosives Biles decrease FF by - 6 seconds === "Help Toss to cover ground"
is so much better than:
FF require 2 biles to knock down
The require 2 biles would need a visual indicator and just be so weird. But I must say I don't think it's a change that is needed. Nerfing Ravager morph time and lowering the armour of eggs, or nerfing Ravager range by 2 and gating it behind an upgrade on the Roach Warren, or giving Zerg a Ravager Nest would achieve a similar effect, without being weird about it.
On March 31 2022 08:30 Jerubaal wrote: -Let colossus "lower" it's head for a movement speed/range reduction.
I liked this idea so much that I had to photoshop what it would look like. Obviously the legs would need to be a bit more spread out but I think it looks awesome!!!
Crouching Collosus Hidden Templar
I think if Charoisaur‘s sensible idea to give a Collosus a headbutt ability against air, it needs a specific leaping animation for visual clarity.
I’d always imagined this as being something like a frog’s leap in preparation, and a ballet dancer mid-flight your photoshop is a fine illustration.
I would also give it another ability, I’m not sure what I would call it as of yet. A Collosus should be able to flip onto its head and start spinning around, its legs would foil out and blades would protude from its feet. Kind of like a breakdancer spinning on their head, if they had knives attached to their feet.
This would do huge DPS so would be an effective way to block chokes from units like lings, but it would take a brief deployment phase to set up so a Collosus can’t just instantly convert when surrounded. Collosus set to spin mode would be an effective defence against swarm hosts.
I think Collosus should also be able to manspread, perhaps as a /dance, ineffective in the game but a useful tool in the brutal psychological warfare of Starcraft.
I think it makes lore sense too, I mean they’re meant to be ancient war machines too terrible to countenance using outside of desperation. They were brought back into commission but their full power has been held back… until now
On March 31 2022 08:30 Jerubaal wrote: -Let colossus "lower" it's head for a movement speed/range reduction.
I liked this idea so much that I had to photoshop what it would look like. Obviously the legs would need to be a bit more spread out but I think it looks awesome!!!
Crouching Collosus Hidden Templar
I think if Charoisaur‘s sensible idea to give a Collosus a headbutt ability against air, it needs a specific leaping animation for visual clarity.
I’d always imagined this as being something like a frog’s leap in preparation, and a ballet dancer mid-flight your photoshop is a fine illustration.
I would also give it another ability, I’m not sure what I would call it as of yet. A Collosus should be able to flip onto its head and start spinning around, its legs would foil out and blades would protude from its feet. Kind of like a breakdancer spinning on their head, if they had knives attached to their feet.
This would do huge DPS so would be an effective way to block chokes from units like lings, but it would take a brief deployment phase to set up so a Collosus can’t just instantly convert when surrounded. Collosus set to spin mode would be an effective defence against swarm hosts.
I think Collosus should also be able to manspread, perhaps as a /dance, ineffective in the game but a useful tool in the brutal psychological warfare of Starcraft.
I think it makes lore sense too, I mean they’re meant to be ancient war machines too terrible to countenance using outside of desperation. They were brought back into commission but their full power has been held back… until now
yes! all very sensible design changes rooted deep in protoss lore
one small tweak, if I may: a flailing upside-down legblade break-spin may put other friendly ground units in harm's way, dramatically reducing the effective synergy of protoss ground compositions.
I propose oracles recieve a new ability that would allow them to transform into a disco ball. while in disco power mode, nearby protoss ground units are made temporarily immune to friendly fire. I think this could be indicated visually with zealots throwing down gang signs with their psyblades, and stalkers pop-locking their cybernetic limbs (boogie-down bronx style).
I'm gonna page my boy Dr Dre and ask him to produce some fresh vocoder voice packs to coincide with the new protoss breakdance aesthetic. also, I propose that we get rid of the old in-game protoss theme music and use this instead:
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/vG0qqBI.png)
