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On February 05 2022 23:03 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 13:52 Pentarp wrote:On February 05 2022 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:
I see we got some new analysts in here so my offer is still up, if anyone wants to bet 50$ to my 500$ that protoss is going to win less of the 10 next premier tournaments than the other two races, hit me up It's such a false premise. Recently, 2 Protoss made it to GSL ST RO4 and 1 won the championship. Winning grand finals is a smaller fraction of a a small sample size of population. It's the best of the best. Nerves also play a huge factor. Others will see "silly mistakes" that Dark made. But that shows how intense and volatile grand finals can be. Representation at RO4 is what matters. And Protoss does not struggle there. It's a false premise for what lol. People are in this thread pretending that they don't think protoss is getting trounced at the highest level, I offer them 10 to 1 that protoss wins the least amount of tournaments in the future and they refuse to take it. My premise is true: they don't really believe the shit they say.
I just think that the best players are Terrans and Zerg. That doesn't mean Protoss can't win anything, though. Why would you take this bet if you thought that Maru and Rogue are the most skilled players, but Protoss isn't underpowered? Your argument doesn't make any sense because that is exactly what most people who will reject your whine will believe.
On February 06 2022 15:17 Jerubaal wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm here for the ideas. The discussion about what constitutes imbalance or UP/OP.
I feel like some of the people here have forgotten about very similar narratives in the past: That Terran players were just better and that's why they did so well. That Zerg was way harder and weaker and that's why the endless deluge of Zerg tears was justified.
It's also insteresting that this conversation is a continuation of the same conversation from BW.
Have you considered that these things get said so much because they are true and passage of time doesn't change the fact that Protoss was designed to be easier for new players from the beginning?
Can anyone even explain why you would assume that when you get down to the handful of players who even have a shot at winning premier tournaments that who's winning comes down to race and not exceptional skill, while ignoring GM statistics? Maybe you'd like to explain what was so awful about Maru and Dark's play in the Super Tournament that Zest managed to win despite the odds being stacked against him because of his race?
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On February 06 2022 18:13 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2022 15:17 Jerubaal wrote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm here for the ideas. The discussion about what constitutes imbalance or UP/OP.
I feel like some of the people here have forgotten about very similar narratives in the past: That Terran players were just better and that's why they did so well. That Zerg was way harder and weaker and that's why the endless deluge of Zerg tears was justified.
It's also insteresting that this conversation is a continuation of the same conversation from BW. Have you considered that these things get said so much because they are true and passage of time doesn't change the fact that Protoss was designed to be easier for new players from the beginning?
Is it a fact that Protoss was designed to be easier for new players from the beginning? If yes, I really would love to read the source. However, this wouldn't surprise me very much either.
In this context i find it really interesting that people use the term beginner or new player as if it doesn't need further explanation. Is a beginner someone who hasn't touched a game before sc2? Or is a beginner someone who starts to play sc2 for the first time.
I suppose most people refer to a beginner of sc2 as someone who starts to play sc2 (and probably isn't totally new to gaming or even rts). In this case, I would argue which race is the most difficult or easiest to get into sc2 depends more on the individual skills and experience of the beginner in question than on the designs of the races. (For Example think of a strong bw amateur switching to sc2 or, like me, an experienced wc3 player switching to sc2. Do you think the race you played in bw or wc3 has no influence on how easy or hard you find a race in sc2?)
In this case also the discussion what in general is the easiest or hardest race to get into sc2 becomes irrelevant because it cannot sensible be anwsered.
On February 06 2022 18:13 honorablemacroterran wrote:
Can anyone even explain why you would assume that when you get down to the handful of players who even have a shot at winning premier tournaments that who's winning comes down to race and not exceptional skill, while ignoring GM statistics? Maybe you'd like to explain what was so awful about Maru and Dark's play in the Super Tournament that Zest managed to win despite the odds being stacked against him because of his race?
I think you're totally right in this regard. sc2 progaming comes down to so few players and each race is present at the absolute highest level of play. Therefore, it is not at all surprising that there are fluctuations in which race wins how many tournaments. I think in the current meta, the races are balanced to the point where day shape/shapes have a bigger impact on winning a series/tournament than the balance of the game.
Have a good day y'all 
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On February 06 2022 18:13 honorablemacroterran wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2022 23:03 Nebuchad wrote:On February 05 2022 13:52 Pentarp wrote:On February 05 2022 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:
I see we got some new analysts in here so my offer is still up, if anyone wants to bet 50$ to my 500$ that protoss is going to win less of the 10 next premier tournaments than the other two races, hit me up It's such a false premise. Recently, 2 Protoss made it to GSL ST RO4 and 1 won the championship. Winning grand finals is a smaller fraction of a a small sample size of population. It's the best of the best. Nerves also play a huge factor. Others will see "silly mistakes" that Dark made. But that shows how intense and volatile grand finals can be. Representation at RO4 is what matters. And Protoss does not struggle there. It's a false premise for what lol. People are in this thread pretending that they don't think protoss is getting trounced at the highest level, I offer them 10 to 1 that protoss wins the least amount of tournaments in the future and they refuse to take it. My premise is true: they don't really believe the shit they say. I just think that the best players are Terrans and Zerg. That doesn't mean Protoss can't win anything, though. Why would you take this bet if you thought that Maru and Rogue are the most skilled players, but Protoss isn't underpowered? Your argument doesn't make any sense because that is exactly what most people who will reject your whine will believe.
This is a thread about protoss hope. If the problem is that all protoss players suck and the best terrans and zergs are superior, this is worse. You do get that this is worse, right?
My contribution to this thread is and has always been: no, there is no hope, I don't know if it's because other players are better or because of balance and I don't care which one it is, what we should do is stop having hope and therefore stop watching the game.
If you think that other players are better and should win in a fair world, then you agree that there is no hope. So I'm not sure what you're doing in the thread? You're here to tell us to stick around because you want to have someone there to laugh at when your guys win? That's not healthy.
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On February 06 2022 20:56 Nebuchad wrote:
[...] So I'm not sure what you're doing in the thread?
Reading this:
On February 06 2022 20:56 Nebuchad wrote:
[...] what we should do is stop having hope and therefore stop watching the game.
i really don't understand why you are in this thread.
You state: There is no hope for protoss and so we should stop watching the game. Obviously other people disagree with your opinion, either think there is hope or there's no need for hope because everything is fine the way it is, and enjoy watching the game. I'm sorry that you feel that way about SC2. But why do you care that other people still enjoy watching sc2, think there's hope for protoss or don't even feel like there's anything wrong with the state of the game. More importantly, why are you trying to change other people's positive opinions about sc2 to your negative ones?
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On February 06 2022 21:15 jodljodl wrote:
Obviously other people disagree with your opinion
I don't think a lot of people disagree with my opinion. I think people are lying to us.
To answer the question, I'm in the thread because when I first stated the obvious that protoss was going to continue to get destroyed in the near future, some people insisted that they didn't see any issue whatsoever and that actually it was terran that was weak using some nonsense fringe stats. Here's an example of the predictions that happened here:
On November 19 2021 21:48 someone very wrong wrote:
No, I don't bet. But if I would my bet would be
PvP finals of the ST
Zerg wins the IEM in a PvZ finals
The next Code S champion is Zerg and wins in a nonMirror finals, I'm inclining towards PvZ.
One of the TSL finalists will be Protoss while the victor will be either Zerg or Terran. My gut says Zerg.
When someone is wrong on the internet I don't tend to let it go easily, that's just where I'm at with my life
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On February 06 2022 20:56 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2022 18:13 honorablemacroterran wrote:On February 05 2022 23:03 Nebuchad wrote:On February 05 2022 13:52 Pentarp wrote:On February 05 2022 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:
I see we got some new analysts in here so my offer is still up, if anyone wants to bet 50$ to my 500$ that protoss is going to win less of the 10 next premier tournaments than the other two races, hit me up It's such a false premise. Recently, 2 Protoss made it to GSL ST RO4 and 1 won the championship. Winning grand finals is a smaller fraction of a a small sample size of population. It's the best of the best. Nerves also play a huge factor. Others will see "silly mistakes" that Dark made. But that shows how intense and volatile grand finals can be. Representation at RO4 is what matters. And Protoss does not struggle there. It's a false premise for what lol. People are in this thread pretending that they don't think protoss is getting trounced at the highest level, I offer them 10 to 1 that protoss wins the least amount of tournaments in the future and they refuse to take it. My premise is true: they don't really believe the shit they say. I just think that the best players are Terrans and Zerg. That doesn't mean Protoss can't win anything, though. Why would you take this bet if you thought that Maru and Rogue are the most skilled players, but Protoss isn't underpowered? Your argument doesn't make any sense because that is exactly what most people who will reject your whine will believe. This is a thread about protoss hope. If the problem is that all protoss players suck and the best terrans and zergs are superior, this is worse. You do get that this is worse, right? My contribution to this thread is and has always been: no, there is no hope, I don't know if it's because other players are better or because of balance and I don't care which one it is, what we should do is stop having hope and therefore stop watching the game. If you think that other players are better and should win in a fair world, then you agree that there is no hope. So I'm not sure what you're doing in the thread? You're here to tell us to stick around because you want to have someone there to laugh at when your guys win? That's not healthy.
So believing that Maru and Rogue are the best players means that all Protoss players suck?
So in your opinion there are 2 good players in the world and the rest sucks?
And that we should stop watching the game because Protoss wins fewer premier tournaments than the other races (remember: Zest just won ST) is a weird hill to die on
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On February 06 2022 21:28 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2022 20:56 Nebuchad wrote:On February 06 2022 18:13 honorablemacroterran wrote:On February 05 2022 23:03 Nebuchad wrote:On February 05 2022 13:52 Pentarp wrote:On February 05 2022 09:23 Nebuchad wrote:
I see we got some new analysts in here so my offer is still up, if anyone wants to bet 50$ to my 500$ that protoss is going to win less of the 10 next premier tournaments than the other two races, hit me up It's such a false premise. Recently, 2 Protoss made it to GSL ST RO4 and 1 won the championship. Winning grand finals is a smaller fraction of a a small sample size of population. It's the best of the best. Nerves also play a huge factor. Others will see "silly mistakes" that Dark made. But that shows how intense and volatile grand finals can be. Representation at RO4 is what matters. And Protoss does not struggle there. It's a false premise for what lol. People are in this thread pretending that they don't think protoss is getting trounced at the highest level, I offer them 10 to 1 that protoss wins the least amount of tournaments in the future and they refuse to take it. My premise is true: they don't really believe the shit they say. I just think that the best players are Terrans and Zerg. That doesn't mean Protoss can't win anything, though. Why would you take this bet if you thought that Maru and Rogue are the most skilled players, but Protoss isn't underpowered? Your argument doesn't make any sense because that is exactly what most people who will reject your whine will believe. This is a thread about protoss hope. If the problem is that all protoss players suck and the best terrans and zergs are superior, this is worse. You do get that this is worse, right? My contribution to this thread is and has always been: no, there is no hope, I don't know if it's because other players are better or because of balance and I don't care which one it is, what we should do is stop having hope and therefore stop watching the game. If you think that other players are better and should win in a fair world, then you agree that there is no hope. So I'm not sure what you're doing in the thread? You're here to tell us to stick around because you want to have someone there to laugh at when your guys win? That's not healthy. So believing that Maru and Rogue are the best players means that all Protoss players suck? So in your opinion there are 2 good players in the world and the rest sucks? And that we should stop watching the game because Protoss wins fewer premier tournaments than the other races (remember: Zest just won ST) is a weird hill to die on
You obviously shouldn't stop watching the game. It's going in a great direction for you.
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I seriously don't understand your angle. You said there is no hope and we should stop watching the game... but why if you think it's not necessarily a balance problem? I'd understand if you want others to stop watching as protest to get Blizzard to patch the game - but apparently that's not the case so why are you so invested in other peoples enjoyment of the game??
also great way to not answer any arguments anyone presents to you and instead just try to start fights
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On February 06 2022 21:49 Charoisaur wrote:
I seriously don't understand your angle. You said there is no hope and we should stop watching the game... but why if you think it's not necessarily a balance problem? I'd understand if you want others to stop watching as protest to get Blizzard to patch the game - but apparently that's not the case so why are you so invested in other peoples enjoyment of the game??
Because when you watch a game rooting for protoss and protoss never wins, it's not good for you. It increases your negativity, provides bad experiences and turns you into a worse person. Especially when it's been years. It is hard to stop doing something you've done for years, even when that thing is bad for you. At least it's hard for me. So I understand. But I still drew the conclusions I drew about the future, and if you're rooting for protoss, you should consider drawing the same conclusions. Your life will improve.
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Well, other peoples enjoyment of the game is not solely dependant on how many tournaments Protoss wins.
That doesn't mean we want Protoss to underperform or are happy with the current state, but most people won't stop watching the game just because 1 race doesn't win the amount of tournaments they'd like them to win
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On February 06 2022 21:56 Charoisaur wrote:
Well, other peoples enjoyment of the game is not solely dependant on how many tournaments Protoss wins.
That doesn't mean we want Protoss to underperform or are happy with the current state, but most people won't stop watching the game just because 1 race doesn't win the amount of tournaments they'd like them to win
Then those people aren't part of the "we" I was referring to, people who like protoss, and they have no reason to stop watching the game.
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On February 06 2022 21:58 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2022 21:56 Charoisaur wrote:
Well, other peoples enjoyment of the game is not solely dependant on how many tournaments Protoss wins.
That doesn't mean we want Protoss to underperform or are happy with the current state, but most people won't stop watching the game just because 1 race doesn't win the amount of tournaments they'd like them to win Then those people aren't part of the "we" I was referring to, people who like protoss, and they have no reason to stop watching the game.
Yea but the top tournament results as of right now are like right on the edge of Protoss taking a proportionate amount of wins.
10 major tournaments, 2 Protoss winners both from Zest, 3 Maru 1st prizes, 2 Rogue and 2 Serral 1st places. If Protoss had taken even 1 more tournament win it would be Protoss 3/10, how much do you think Protoss should win exactly Neb? If Rogue and Maru were retired, that would take out five non Protoss first place victories.
Maru is probably the current best player in the world, followed very closely by Serral, and combined between the 2 they would constitute 50% of major tournament wins. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Zerg is favored against Protoss at the top level, but by this, "Protoss not winning enough" mentality would you say that Terran is OP too?
Pretty sure we getting a balance patch anyways in the near future, hopefully that can smooth out ZvP a bit.
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Simply believing that Maru and Rogue are the favorites does not preclude Protoss from winning premier tournaments. Maybe you should spend your time supporting Protoss pros instead of telling people not to watch the game. Obviously Maru at least can lose to Protoss in a premier tournament as Zest proved in the Super Tournament.
To probably close to 2/3 of the rest of us who like Terran or Zerg, it sounds like you want to buff Protoss so heavily that the best players are no longer favorites to win tournaments just to make sure that Protoss has more victories. That sounds insane.
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On February 07 2022 04:16 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2022 21:58 Nebuchad wrote:On February 06 2022 21:56 Charoisaur wrote:
Well, other peoples enjoyment of the game is not solely dependant on how many tournaments Protoss wins.
That doesn't mean we want Protoss to underperform or are happy with the current state, but most people won't stop watching the game just because 1 race doesn't win the amount of tournaments they'd like them to win Then those people aren't part of the "we" I was referring to, people who like protoss, and they have no reason to stop watching the game. Yea but the top tournament results as of right now are like right on the edge of Protoss taking a proportionate amount of wins. 10 major tournaments, 2 Protoss winners both from Zest, 3 Maru 1st prizes, 2 Rogue and 2 Serral 1st places. If Protoss had taken even 1 more tournament win it would be Protoss 3/10, how much do you think Protoss should win exactly Neb? If Rogue and Maru were retired, that would take out five non Protoss first place victories. Maru is probably the current best player in the world, followed very closely by Serral, and combined between the 2 they would constitute 50% of major tournament wins. I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Zerg is favored against Protoss at the top level, but by this, "Protoss not winning enough" mentality would you say that Terran is OP too? Pretty sure we getting a balance patch anyways in the near future, hopefully that can smooth out ZvP a bit.
You're free to take me on my bet if you think I'm wrong. I didn't think I was wrong when I made the bet back then, and reality matched my expectations. Maybe I got very lucky!
And yes I look forward to this patch but like it's still Blizzard for all I know they might nerf the voidray and nerf the swarmhost as a compensation =)
On February 07 2022 04:43 honorablemacroterran wrote:
Simply believing that Maru and Rogue are the favorites does not preclude Protoss from winning premier tournaments. Maybe you should spend your time supporting Protoss pros instead of telling people not to watch the game. Obviously Maru at least can lose to Protoss in a premier tournament as Zest proved in the Super Tournament.
To probably close to 2/3 of the rest of us who like Terran or Zerg, it sounds like you want to buff Protoss so heavily that the best players are no longer favorites to win tournaments just to make sure that Protoss has more victories. That sounds insane.
Yes my bad that's a good plan Trap was just waiting for me to cheer him on that's why he's in a slump you are really convincing. I swear there's some sort of contract that terran players have to sign about the amount of nonsense they have to write per day before they are allowed to play the race.
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On February 07 2022 04:43 honorablemacroterran wrote:
Simply believing that Maru and Rogue are the favorites does not preclude Protoss from winning premier tournaments. Maybe you should spend your time supporting Protoss pros instead of telling people not to watch the game. Obviously Maru at least can lose to Protoss in a premier tournament as Zest proved in the Super Tournament.
To probably close to 2/3 of the rest of us who like Terran or Zerg, it sounds like you want to buff Protoss so heavily that the best players are no longer favorites to win tournaments just to make sure that Protoss has more victories. That sounds insane.
When was the last time Protoss was a favorite to win a Code S or an IEM? We have 4-year streak of zergs winning the world championship (IEM/Blizzcon), we have how long exactly without a Protoss victor of the Code S? 4 years now?
I dare to say that in the last 3 years there was NONE protoss favorite to win ANY of these.
Especially after Maru dismantled both Stats and Zest in the Code S in two speedruns.
The only tournamnets where Protoss are favorites are meme ones - GSL ST for some reason is Protoss favorite and WCS NA.
Edit> In 4 years we have no other World Champion than Zerg and no other Code S champion than a Zerg or a Terran. So tell me, mighty TL user, why is that? Protoss players can win "lower" tournaments, so what keeps them from winning what most consider the top tournaments? And it's not just Trap. This period covers Parting(although...), Classic and Stats too 
edit2> WCS NA is a meme and Protoss being the champion for ST is a meme considering they're not champion favorites for anything else besides WCS NA.
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Or maybe there's nothing fundamentally different between the Super Tournament and Code S except preparation time and the fact that Protoss wins Super Tournament but not Code S is because of either preparation time or random chance? In that regard, it's actually closer to the non-Code S premiers, though. I don't understand why Protoss think that Super Tournament is so fundamentally different from other premier tournaments that it shouldn't count as evidence of capability to win a premier tournament.
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My humble opinion is based upon some changes and achievements by pro-s through the last few years. And I do agree that protoss suffer. I watch GSL Code S from the very start from 2010. For a first time in 2021 I lost some interest and missed many games watching them.
Byun has won a GSL in 2016. This changed the entire e-sport I think. He was the first teamless player who did that and congrats to him. A year later all the korean teams were disbanded except JinAir.
Also there is no newcomming players who can reach the top tier tournamens. The only new name is Zoun. Nothing has changed from 2012-2013 since Kespa new wave players invaded the SC2 scene.
In conclusion, there is no diversity, no quality of players prepared for pro-s since back the old Broodwar days when they had lived in houses and etc. etc., the day when you get 22 years old, you should retire cause your hands are already slow.
In the current situation, players like Maru and Rogue feel extremelly comfortable. Their super talent is non-questionable. But the level of competition is so low since the old Kespa teams were closed. No new young faces, just battles agains old veterans who know each other pretty well. And most of the players go military. Dark, Maru and Rouge still are staying and dominate. If TY would stayed playing, he would continue to dominate among with the rest (I woudn't mind cause I'm a TY and Dark fanboy).
Also, Best of 7 format matches make protoss suffer a lot for the last years. Not just against Rogue only.
In General protosses don't stand well in statistics with major titles. But there were always some strong protoss seasons in all eras of SC1 and 2. But since e 2017 there is no major title at all and that is a disturbing fact.
Even as a protoss myself, my favorite competitive SC2 era remains 2013-2015 with HotS. There were plenty of tournaments in and outside Korea, and plenty of champions from all three races. I also miss the old PvZ ZvP from that era. I like GSL ST, but for me it is not a marathon major tournament from that calliber.
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I don't think Byun winning Code S is what made the teams disband. The reason the teams disbanded was the falling popularity of RTS relative to MOBAs in Korea and was especially catalyzed by the Life matchfixing scandal, which was more scandalous in Korea than I think a lot of foreigners realize. Most of the sponsors wanted nothing to do with the scene after that. The reason why there isn't as much new blood is because of the relative lack of funding after all this.
My source on this is an interview I saw with Stats and TY at a Korean barbecue that I can't find atm.
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On February 07 2022 05:07 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2022 04:43 honorablemacroterran wrote:
Simply believing that Maru and Rogue are the favorites does not preclude Protoss from winning premier tournaments. Maybe you should spend your time supporting Protoss pros instead of telling people not to watch the game. Obviously Maru at least can lose to Protoss in a premier tournament as Zest proved in the Super Tournament.
To probably close to 2/3 of the rest of us who like Terran or Zerg, it sounds like you want to buff Protoss so heavily that the best players are no longer favorites to win tournaments just to make sure that Protoss has more victories. That sounds insane. When was the last time Protoss was a favorite to win a Code S or an IEM? We have 4-year streak of zergs winning the world championship (IEM/Blizzcon), we have how long exactly without a Protoss victor of the Code S? 4 years now? I dare to say that in the last 3 years there was NONE protoss favorite to win ANY of these. Especially after Maru dismantled both Stats and Zest in the Code S in two speedruns. The only tournamnets where Protoss are favorites are meme ones - GSL ST for some reason is Protoss favorite and WCS NA. Edit> In 4 years we have no other World Champion than Zerg and no other Code S champion than a Zerg or a Terran. So tell me, mighty TL user, why is that? Protoss players can win "lower" tournaments, so what keeps them from winning what most consider the top tournaments? And it's not just Trap. This period covers Parting(although...), Classic and Stats too edit2> WCS NA is a meme and Protoss being the champion for ST is a meme considering they're not champion favorites for anything else besides WCS NA.
Trap was considered by most people to be the #1 favourite for last years Katowice as he was in insane form back then.
But we all know how that ended...
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Czech Republic12132 Posts
On February 07 2022 05:30 honorablemacroterran wrote:
Or maybe there's nothing fundamentally different between the Super Tournament and Code S except preparation time and the fact that Protoss wins Super Tournament but not Code S is because of either preparation time or random chance? In that regard, it's actually closer to the non-Code S premiers, though. I don't understand why Protoss think that Super Tournament is so fundamentally different from other premier tournaments that it shouldn't count as evidence of capability to win a premier tournament.
Nobody says that Protoss cannot win premier tournaments, WCS NA is in that category People say that the highest tier - nowadays the IEM and the Code S hasn't been won by Protoss for ages and that's weird considering everybody is saying Protoss is fine. IN a balanced game we should have other races winning the WC title not just zergs and especially the Code S considering it's more often. But yet here we are, they take just 2nd places, I wonder why. (Trap is kong, Zest not)
On February 07 2022 07:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2022 05:07 deacon.frost wrote:On February 07 2022 04:43 honorablemacroterran wrote:
Simply believing that Maru and Rogue are the favorites does not preclude Protoss from winning premier tournaments. Maybe you should spend your time supporting Protoss pros instead of telling people not to watch the game. Obviously Maru at least can lose to Protoss in a premier tournament as Zest proved in the Super Tournament.
To probably close to 2/3 of the rest of us who like Terran or Zerg, it sounds like you want to buff Protoss so heavily that the best players are no longer favorites to win tournaments just to make sure that Protoss has more victories. That sounds insane. When was the last time Protoss was a favorite to win a Code S or an IEM? We have 4-year streak of zergs winning the world championship (IEM/Blizzcon), we have how long exactly without a Protoss victor of the Code S? 4 years now? I dare to say that in the last 3 years there was NONE protoss favorite to win ANY of these. Especially after Maru dismantled both Stats and Zest in the Code S in two speedruns. The only tournamnets where Protoss are favorites are meme ones - GSL ST for some reason is Protoss favorite and WCS NA. Edit> In 4 years we have no other World Champion than Zerg and no other Code S champion than a Zerg or a Terran. So tell me, mighty TL user, why is that? Protoss players can win "lower" tournaments, so what keeps them from winning what most consider the top tournaments? And it's not just Trap. This period covers Parting(although...), Classic and Stats too edit2> WCS NA is a meme and Protoss being the champion for ST is a meme considering they're not champion favorites for anything else besides WCS NA. Trap was considered by most people to be the #1 favourite for last years Katowice as he was in insane form back then. But we all know how that ended...
And I laughed myself to falling of the chair 
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EPT
