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On January 26 2021 18:12 Dante08 wrote:
Is it possible they can outsource maintenance of both SC1 and SC2 to another company?
I think this is unlikely. One of Blizzard's oldest brand-enriching practices is to create their own branded gaming community in which they continue to support old games, both through servers and patches, and acknowledge the fans they have made over the years, even ones that don't buy any of their new games. Blizzcon would not exist without this ethos. So, I think if Acti-Bliz started outsourcing these types of jobs, it would mean the real end of any remaining identity as a game development company.
It is troubling that Blizzard cannot even manage a remake of it's own game (D2), but there may be some good reasons for that. One of them is that Blizzard North was never fully integrated into the main office, and the D2 assets were lost before the game was released, so VV might actually produce a better game than the internal remaster team could have. A silver lining of this is that the "reforged" fiasco didn't happen to Diablo, and it sounds like they will try harder to avoid the mistakes of that release. I'm not super excited about it because everyone that created that masterpiece is gone, along with their best code, but it might end up being the best way to experience the game in the long future when operating systems and graphics are even less compatible with old software than they are now.
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Now that RTS is officially dead to Blizzard...anyone wanna be my Rome II multiplayer partner? XD
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On January 23 2021 11:00 StasisField wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2021 10:27 TelecoM wrote:On January 23 2021 10:09 WombaT wrote:
I just hope Frost Giant can nail it.
In the absence of say, a Valve entering the RTS market, Blizzard is dead in that regard.
The company that made genre-defining classics can’t even get the resources to make competent remasters of its own properties. Valve is making an RTS? This is really bad news, but as far as BW is concerned, I am excited to try Shield Battery again. As far as SC2 is concerned, this sucks for SC2 lovers. Does this mean no more blizzard sponsored SC2 events / no more patches for SC2? I haven't played SC2 in years actually, do people feel the balance is perfect now? I think they're saying Blizzard isn't going to make another RTS unless a big player like Valve decides to. They announced they were stopping major patches for SC2 a few months ago, promising to make tweaks where necessary, but I'm pretty sure everyone back then knew there were never going to be any "necessary" tweaks. Balance isn't perfect but I'd say every race has a good shot at winning something right now, which is better than how things were back in 2019.
Microsoft is making AoE4. Aren't they a big player? In fact, their market cap is 2nd only to Apple. I would call that huge.
User was banned for this post.
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On January 24 2021 17:51 kramvti wrote:
in 20+ years of existence the Starcraft franchise has yet to crack $1 Billion.
Blizzard begs to differ...like 4 years ago now...
By the end of 2017, the franchise's lifetime revenue totaled over $1 billion.
https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bbfd4b49-bf78-40bd-aefe-3467f211844b
Where in this source does it state SC's lifetime revenue totalled over $1 billion?
SC2:WoL sold 1.5 million in a day and 3 million in a month. That was the biggest revenue that the SC franchise ever produced. SC1 sold most of its copies after it was deeply discounted many years after its March 1998 release.
the SC franchise is no where near a billion in revenue.
please stop relying on Wikipedia. Their "source" for this info never says SC hit a billion. We can get deep into the weeds on this issue if you like. The #s just don't add up.
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On January 28 2021 07:24 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2021 17:51 kramvti wrote:
in 20+ years of existence the Starcraft franchise has yet to crack $1 Billion.
Blizzard begs to differ...like 4 years ago now...
By the end of 2017, the franchise's lifetime revenue totaled over $1 billion.
https://investor.activision.com/static-files/bbfd4b49-bf78-40bd-aefe-3467f211844b
Where in this source does it state SC's lifetime revenue totalled over $1 billion? SC2:WoL sold 1.5 million in a day and 3 million in a month. That was the biggest revenue that the SC franchise ever produced. SC1 sold most of its copies after it was deeply discounted many years after its March 1998 release. the SC franchise is no where near a billion in revenue. please stop relying on Wikipedia. Their "source" for this info never says SC hit a billion. We can get deep into the weeds on this issue if you like. The #s just don't add up.
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/LPCobJo.png)
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There are 13 franchises shown in that graphic. As an example. Heroes of the Storm is not a billion dollar franchise. Neither is Starcraft.
SC's #s don't come close to adding up to a billion.
Just off the top of my head... i'd say
WoW, Diablo, OW, Skylanders, CoD, Candy Crush, Guitar Hero, and Crash Bandicoot are the 8, billion dollar franchises. The Starcraft franchise comes no where close to bringing in the kinds of #s these 8 franchises brought in.
Hell, I bet you Pitfall has brought in more money than Starcraft.
Also, notice how careful the wording is on this issue. Its not "games we've developed" .. it is "IP we own".
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
1) You may not be talking about the same 1 bUSD
2) You have no idea how much some warchests brought in
3) I really think you are talking about different 1b USD
Edit> #1 and #3 apply to the two posts above me)
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Best of luck to them all. I don't know what else to say as this seems par for the course with Actiblizz chasing constant growth for shareholders at the cost of devs and suppor for the games that made Blizz dearly loved.
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On January 24 2021 01:50 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2021 15:42 dbRic1203 wrote:On January 23 2021 14:08 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Members of Team 1 met to discuss what had gone wrong. Internal Blizzard documents reviewed by Bloomberg pinpointed the game’s failures on poor planning, miscommunication and a rushed release due to financial pressure from management, among other factors. For example, Blizzard announced the game in November 2018 and began taking pre-orders for 2019 without informing most of the development team beforehand, according to several people who worked on Warcraft III: Reforged. they always blame management. LOL. Pardo , Metzen, Morhaime, and a host of other big leaders like Sigaty and Browder have moved on and formed dev studios Bonfire and Dreamhaven. Its been years.... and I have yet to see one single game come from any of these guys. And, these are some extremely talented, brilliant, prolly genius level men. NOT ONE GAME. As brilliant as these guys are ....they need pressure from management. On January 23 2021 12:41 StasisField wrote:On January 23 2021 12:17 Woosixion wrote:On January 23 2021 11:03 StasisField wrote:On January 23 2021 10:31 Woosixion wrote:So with sc2 dev stopping, does this mean this patch of starcraft is going to be the one used for the rest of eternity?  Does this mean we should be expecting a sc3 announcement soon? Pretty much. They announced a while back that SC2 would no longer have any major patches. I doubt we get any minor balances patches either. Don't expect an SC3. I remember hearing in an interview with the Frost Giant team (I think it was them, anyway) that Blizzard had pitched RTS games to Activision but Activision declined. I can't understand why they would not jump at opportunity to make a few billion dollars with SC3.. like.. they've got the market cornered on RTS every single RTS player in the world would buy it no matter what.. It probably just isn't as profitable as other ventures. I also doubt we'd see billions of dollars from SC3. I'm sure it'd be very successful for an RTS game but there are markets they could target for an even higher possible return on their investment. in 20+ years of existence the Starcraft franchise has yet to crack $1 Billion. It seems like you underestimate how long it takes to Create a game from scratch by a landslide Pardo left Blizzard 7 years ago. 0 games.
SC was pure dumb luck. Everything else was cannon fodder. I am not surprised they haven't released anything.
Also based off the numbers of what SC, BW, SC2, SC: hots, SC: lotv while I don't think they hit 1 billion yet. I think it is relatively closed just based off how many copies are sold without including anything else. it's probably just over 750,000,000.
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On January 29 2021 06:40 StarStruck wrote:
SC was pure dumb luck. Everything else was cannon fodder. I am not surprised they haven't released anything.
ya think? i think it was very ambitious to create a 3 diverse race RTS game. How many other game developers had done that before March 1998? I think SC was the first to try it.
Had Blizzard not devoted the resources to patching the game over and over again for years then you might say it was "dumb luck". However, Blizzard took the unprecedented step of continuously balancing the game long after its release. That is not luck. You might say it was "dumb iteration" or "dumb massive amounts of trial and error". From 1999 to 2002, Blizzard didn't leave anything up to "luck".
I think making SC was brilliant and ballsy. A work of pure genius. An aspect of genius .... is rare nerve. Part of genius is the willingness to stand up in front of an entire industry and say "fuck you... this is very different ... and its also the best way to make a great game".
Along the same lines, Pacman really isn't that great of a game. Ms Pacman, Lock'n'Chase and LadyBug are all 1000X better dot eating maze games. However, Pacman was first and Pacman created the genre.
On January 29 2021 06:40 StarStruck wrote:
Also based off the numbers of what SC, BW, SC2, SC: hots, SC: lotv while I don't think they hit 1 billion yet. I think it is relatively closed just based off how many copies are sold without including anything else. it's probably just over 750,000,000.
you are prolly right about it being $750M. HotS was 1 million day 1. LotV and HotS sold over 1 million copies in the first few days of release. So that is ~$100M right there.
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On January 29 2021 07:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2021 06:40 StarStruck wrote:
SC was pure dumb luck. Everything else was cannon fodder. I am not surprised they haven't released anything.
ya think? i think it was very ambitious to create a 3 diverse race RTS game. How many other game developers had done that before March 1998? I think SC was the first to try it. Had Blizzard not devoted the resources to patching the game over and over again for years then you might say it was "dumb luck". However, Blizzard took the unprecedented step of continuously balancing the game long after its release. That is not luck. You might say it was "dumb iteration" or "dumb massive amounts of trial and error". From 1999 to 2002, Blizzard didn't leave anything up to "luck". I think making SC was brilliant and ballsy. A work of pure genius. An aspect of genius .... is rare nerve. Part of genius is the willingness to stand up in front of an entire industry and say "fuck you... this is very different ... and its also the best way to make a great game". Along the same lines, Pacman really isn't that great of a game. Ms Pacman, Lock'n'Chase and LadyBug are all 1000X better dot eating maze games. However, Pacman was first and Pacman created the genre.
You just describe SC as a long term brillant result of dedication and willingness, then quote a one time game with no support nor dev what so ever. What even is your point here?
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On January 29 2021 07:45 AbouSV wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2021 07:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On January 29 2021 06:40 StarStruck wrote:
SC was pure dumb luck. Everything else was cannon fodder. I am not surprised they haven't released anything.
ya think? i think it was very ambitious to create a 3 diverse race RTS game. How many other game developers had done that before March 1998? I think SC was the first to try it. Had Blizzard not devoted the resources to patching the game over and over again for years then you might say it was "dumb luck". However, Blizzard took the unprecedented step of continuously balancing the game long after its release. That is not luck. You might say it was "dumb iteration" or "dumb massive amounts of trial and error". From 1999 to 2002, Blizzard didn't leave anything up to "luck". I think making SC was brilliant and ballsy. A work of pure genius. An aspect of genius .... is rare nerve. Part of genius is the willingness to stand up in front of an entire industry and say "fuck you... this is very different ... and its also the best way to make a great game". Along the same lines, Pacman really isn't that great of a game. Ms Pacman, Lock'n'Chase and LadyBug are all 1000X better dot eating maze games. However, Pacman was first and Pacman created the genre. You just describe SC as a long term brillant result of dedication and willingness, then quote a one time game with no support nor dev what so ever. What even is your point here?
my point is that Pacman was innovative and SC was innovative. Both games took balls of steel to make because no one was doing anything close to what Blizzard and Namco were doing at the time. Both games were the prime movers of their respective genres.
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Yet you spent 3 paragraphs talking about everything else, that could not even remotely apply to PacMan, that's confusing.
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On January 29 2021 08:21 AbouSV wrote:
Yet you spent 3 paragraphs talking about everything else, that could not even remotely apply to PacMan, that's confusing.
good point, without the historical knowledge of what was going on around 1980 in the video game industry my post can be confusing.
For added context, Gallery Shooters were the main genre. Gallery shooters include stuff like Space Invaders, Galaxian, Galaga, etc. Shooting things in general. Other forms of combat like Missile Command and Asteroids. Auto Racing and sports games had a niche as well.
nothing remotely close to Pacman existed in 1979-1981. Namco was deviating way off the beaten path.
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On January 29 2021 07:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2021 06:40 StarStruck wrote:
SC was pure dumb luck. Everything else was cannon fodder. I am not surprised they haven't released anything.
ya think? i think it was very ambitious to create a 3 diverse race RTS game. How many other game developers had done that before March 1998? I think SC was the first to try it. Had Blizzard not devoted the resources to patching the game over and over again for years then you might say it was "dumb luck". However, Blizzard took the unprecedented step of continuously balancing the game long after its release. That is not luck. You might say it was "dumb iteration" or "dumb massive amounts of trial and error". From 1999 to 2002, Blizzard didn't leave anything up to "luck". I think making SC was brilliant and ballsy. A work of pure genius. An aspect of genius .... is rare nerve. Part of genius is the willingness to stand up in front of an entire industry and say "fuck you... this is very different ... and its also the best way to make a great game". Along the same lines, Pacman really isn't that great of a game. Ms Pacman, Lock'n'Chase and LadyBug are all 1000X better dot eating maze games. However, Pacman was first and Pacman created the genre. Show nested quote +On January 29 2021 06:40 StarStruck wrote:
Also based off the numbers of what SC, BW, SC2, SC: hots, SC: lotv while I don't think they hit 1 billion yet. I think it is relatively closed just based off how many copies are sold without including anything else. it's probably just over 750,000,000. you are prolly right about it being $750M. HotS was 1 million day 1. LotV and HotS sold over 1 million copies in the first few days of release. So that is ~$100M right there.
you do realize the devs even said it was pure dumb luck right? i mean you remember the alpha and vanilla SC/Brood War came in at around 350M. Close based off sales but yeah just under 1 bil.
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On January 29 2021 09:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2021 08:21 AbouSV wrote:
Yet you spent 3 paragraphs talking about everything else, that could not even remotely apply to PacMan, that's confusing. good point, without the historical knowledge of what was going on around 1980 in the video game industry my post can be confusing. For added context, Gallery Shooters were the main genre. Gallery shooters include stuff like Space Invaders, Galaxian, Galaga, etc. Shooting things in general. Other forms of combat like Missile Command and Asteroids. Auto Racing and sports games had a niche as well. nothing remotely close to Pacman existed in 1979-1981. Namco was deviating way off the beaten path.
You can be as haughty as you want about how much better that others (me?) you know all the details about the video game industry from 79 to 81, but please re-read your three paragraph I mentioned. You just keep going the exact opposite way.
Where in all you said about pacman is the "dedication", "support", "iteration", "trial and error", "unprecedented step of continuously balancing the game long after its release" (all your terms) you described SC2 with?
So SC2 = pacmac because their innovative for their respective time. Sure, why not. Everything else has nothing to do with each other.
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I'm going to add to this point about game design because it wasn't only the devs who said they got lucky based off the games development. Trail and Error is such a lazy response because it's part of game development process and lacks substance especially when we are talking about vanilla SC:BW.
This is coming from someone who grew up with the scene fyi.
It was very community driven. Case in point there were a lot of points in vanilla SC and Brood War where the patches were so sporadic that things had to grow organically. It game pro players and foreigner players to figure shit out which really opened the doors for new openings/timings/builds even on maps like Lost Temple which was played for the longest fucking time as a go to ladder/tournament map.
Every map designer and person apart of the hardcore community deserves a pat on the back and we build our own places to play like: gamei, fish, iccup, wgtour, pgtour, Star League, OGN, MBC Game, Pro League etc. Without shit like that the game wouldn't have gotten to where it is today.
I used to be a hardcore WC2 fan. No different than I used to be hardcore vanilla SC and eventually BW. Remember the vanilla SCers versus the Brood War foreign players? Good times.
Looking back at things SC2 never really did grow on me and I could give you a whole list of reasons as to why or what they could have tried and maybe the result would have been different. Could of should of didn't. Regardless when Activision bought Blizzard I think a lot of people saw this coming. it was just a question of when and I'm sorry but every release after SC2 other than maybe Hearthstone has been mediocre at best.
It's what happens when a small studio gets gobbled up by the big boys all the time. Building a great game let alone getting the financial backing especially for a real-time strategy game which makes a very small fraction of the gaming industry, which could potentially be the single digits. I can understand why Activision said not a fucking chance. I mean Blizzard really fucking blew because they don't know what the hell they are doing when it comes to running a League.
This is why sometimes it is best for the community to let drive things rather than trying to do what Riot did with League.
If they really wanted to do what Riot did then smart money would have been to invest and hire an executive who has experience in running something like Star League or hire a commissioner from a professional international sports organization.
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EPT
