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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
 Team GP, their Korean Terran Rookie will retire today upon the end of his contract with the organization. I've heard before that Rookie was considering retirement if he didn't make it into GSL Code S, so it seems like he has indeed decided to move on with his life after failing to qualify again. Rookie started out on CJ Entus in 2016 and went on a hiatus after the KeSPA team disbanded. He tried to come back into the pro scene afterwards, but was unable to make an impact. Source 
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Russano
United States425 Posts
Always sad to see someones dreams go unfulfilled. | ||
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AssyrianKing
Australia2111 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:16 Russano wrote: Man, starcraft 2 might really be a dead game if even its Rookies are retiring. Always sad to see someones dreams go unfulfilled. At least in Korea, not the foreign scene though | ||
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ImmortalGhost
United States57 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
"The korean scene is healthy as fuck" | ||
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darklycid
3373 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:39 Durnuu wrote: Do not worry, my friends, for the prophet Apollo foresaw this and uttered those words "The korean scene is healthy as fuck" I mean the kr scene got hit by the matchfix scandal harder than by region lock i'd say. | ||
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Parser
Italy87 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:35 ImmortalGhost wrote: It's pretty tragic to see that Blizzard's efforts to foster a healthy foreign scene has lead to the decline of the korean scene. Even TY and Stats admitted it. I do not think we should still blame Blizzard for this. Korean interest in SC2 was declining well before the match-fixing scandal (the main reason is the audience looking towards team games) while the interest in the rest of the world was still stable, if not increasing. From the economic point of view Blizzard choice has been the right one: invest where you can obtain revenues. | ||
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Blargh
United States2101 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:35 ImmortalGhost wrote: It's pretty tragic to see that Blizzard's efforts to foster a healthy foreign scene has lead to the decline of the korean scene. Even TY and Stats admitted it. Let's not act like this is because of Blizzard. Seriously, they may have disrupted the scene a bit with their global efforts, but I don't think that's the reason Korean players are retiring. If anything, Blizzard's long-term financial support is the only reason it's made it out a decade. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:39 Durnuu wrote: Do not worry, my friends, for the prophet Apollo foresaw this and uttered those words "The korean scene is healthy as fuck" Whut? Is there a source to that or is that some meme? On August 27 2020 18:38 Parser wrote: I do not think we should still blame Blizzard for this. Korean interest in SC2 was declining well before the match-fixing scandal (the main reason is the audience looking towards team games) while the interest in the rest of the world was still stable, if not increasing. From the economic point of view Blizzard choice has been the right one: invest where you can obtain revenues. Considering the biggest hyped matches are foreigners vs Koreans, if you remove Koreans from the equation you lose the audience. Also it won't look good if the death of the SC2 proscene will be based on the Blizzard's decision(although it's not 100 % their fault). Not that it matter to the new Blizzard anymore, after the last few years I lost all hopes(and not because the SC related decisions) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:51 darklycid wrote: I mean the kr scene got hit by the matchfix scandal harder than by region lock i'd say. Probably, seems a bigger factor to me. Brood War still being big in Korea is another huge factor. That aside, wish Rookie luck in whatever he’s doing next. There are structural problems in Korean SC2 for sure, I don’t think Rookie struggling to break the barrier into Code S is particularly due to some of them though. | ||
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freelifeffs
97 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On August 27 2020 22:05 freelifeffs wrote: it is blizzards fault. normally, when you release a new esports game, you shut down esports for the old installment. they shouldve just ended support and forbidden prize money tournaments for broodwar at the time they released sc2. maybe 1 year after sc2 was released to allow for a smooth transition. It wasn't in the first year but ultimately this is practically what Blizzard did as they made KeSPA switch to SC2. Yeah spoiler alert, this was not well received in Korea and it didn't help SC2 in the long term. | ||
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120720
95 Posts
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skdsk
138 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:35 ImmortalGhost wrote: It's pretty tragic to see that Blizzard's efforts to foster a healthy foreign scene has lead to the decline of the korean scene. Even TY and Stats admitted it. Blizzard was pumping money into kr scene since day 0 of sc2. How much money pumping does 1 nation needs compared to the rest of the globe? They even have there pretty much separate tournaments that pay just as well as global stuff. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13964 Posts
On August 27 2020 17:35 ImmortalGhost wrote: It's pretty tragic to see that Blizzard's efforts to foster a healthy foreign scene has lead to the decline of the korean scene. Even TY and Stats admitted it. Who cares about Korea. Not like highest quality gameplay matters or anything. | ||
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On August 27 2020 22:05 freelifeffs wrote: it is blizzards fault. normally, when you release a new esports game, you shut down esports for the old installment. they shouldve just ended support and forbidden prize money tournaments for broodwar at the time they released sc2. maybe 1 year after sc2 was released to allow for a smooth transition. They tried that, but BW was too popular in Korea and the community refused to let it die. To this day BW is still more popular than SC2. | ||
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elluel
62 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
Unfortunately I have heard SpunXtain has also retired. I remember seeing his proxy base proxy barracks strategy on Scrap Station it was very innovative. | ||
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QOGQOG
825 Posts
On August 28 2020 03:09 skdsk wrote: Blizzard was pumping money into kr scene since day 0 of sc2. How much money pumping does 1 nation needs compared to the rest of the globe? They even have there pretty much separate tournaments that pay just as well as global stuff. That's one way to spin "they're banned from competing in many tournaments" I guess. | ||
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EvilTeletubby
Baltimore, USA22251 Posts
On August 27 2020 22:08 Elentos wrote: It wasn't in the first year but ultimately this is practically what Blizzard did as they made KeSPA switch to SC2. Yeah spoiler alert, this was not well received in Korea and it didn't help SC2 in the long term. Problem is everything was so forced. There was a lot of resentment, understandably so. | ||
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Scarlett`
China2375 Posts
On August 28 2020 11:02 elluel wrote: Who? no need to be an ass | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2704 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On August 28 2020 15:15 argonautdice wrote: Is blaming Blizzard the TL version of "THANKS OBAMA!" ? Certainly seems it. | ||
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Blargh
United States2101 Posts
On August 28 2020 15:15 argonautdice wrote: Is blaming Blizzard the TL version of "THANKS OBAMA!" ? Anyway, the state of the game might ultimately be related to Blizzard, in that they developed a game that did not have mainstream appeal, but blaming them for their treatment of the scene is sort of silly. It might not seem it to some people because Blizz is an EVIL corporation, but a lot of what was done for Starcraft by Blizz was through acts of charity and care for the franchise. Players retiring is almost completely due to the lack of a B-scene. Truly, there is no B-scene right now. I'm pretty sure half the money players are getting is either charity or from shady sources. And that's just how it goes with most 10 year old games, you know. There really aren't that many games that have had even this resilience. Starcrafts and Melee, are some of the only ones to have had a scene its entire lifetime. And at this point, neither of those scenes is particularly profitable. Like, it's more of a break-even kind of scene. No one's getting rich over here. | ||
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Duke_nk
38 Posts
On August 28 2020 18:01 Blargh wrote: https://youtu.be/j5zeMtEcQoI Anyway, the state of the game might ultimately be related to Blizzard, in that they developed a game that did not have mainstream appeal, but blaming them for their treatment of the scene is sort of silly. It might not seem it to some people because Blizz is an EVIL corporation, but a lot of what was done for Starcraft by Blizz was through acts of charity and care for the franchise. Players retiring is almost completely due to the lack of a B-scene. Truly, there is no B-scene right now. I'm pretty sure half the money players are getting is either charity or from shady sources. And that's just how it goes with most 10 year old games, you know. There really aren't that many games that have had even this resilience. Starcrafts and Melee, are some of the only ones to have had a scene its entire lifetime. And at this point, neither of those scenes is particularly profitable. Like, it's more of a break-even kind of scene. No one's getting rich over here. Now take away the blizzard funding for tournaments and get rid of the 100k ASL fees. Now each ASL has 100k more in price money and there would be no GSL or WCS anymore. SC2 isn't sustainable. BW is. | ||
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skdsk
138 Posts
On August 28 2020 19:34 Duke_nk wrote: Now take away the blizzard funding for tournaments and get rid of the 100k ASL fees. Now each ASL has 100k more in price money and there would be no GSL or WCS anymore. SC2 isn't sustainable. BW is. there was wc3 scene without korea or blizzard money, guess what? blizzard literally closed down every tournament and took control of everything in sc2, ofcourse right now sc2 is dependant on them.. | ||
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MinixTheNerd
200 Posts
Part of me wonders if it is better to abandon GSL next year and just double down on ASL, maybe expand that to a 32 player tournament with a code A type format to supplement. I would personally rather see that, than just slowly watch sc2 code S shrink to an even smaller player base. As for the korean players who do want to continue playing sc2, I guess China is probably the best place for any big future tournament? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On August 28 2020 19:34 Duke_nk wrote: Now take away the blizzard funding for tournaments and get rid of the 100k ASL fees. Now each ASL has 100k more in price money and there would be no GSL or WCS anymore. SC2 isn't sustainable. BW is. Of Blizz’s 3 eSports RTS games, they’re all sustainable to varying degrees at the pro level, just not universally. BW has its enduring popularity in Korea, WC3 has China and SC2’s is more globally spread but isn’t particularly popular in Korea, which is no doubt tied to the first observation there. eSports is a tough nut to crack, for any game to have this longevity and popularity is rather damn rare. Just League and Valve’s duo’s even greater popularity can make Blizz’s titles seem small. Even Quake, a phenomenal core game and the granddaddy of competitive shooters of its day has fallen off the map hugely, trends change and to have people playing basically the same game for 10 or 20+ as in SC’s iterations is pretty good going. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On August 27 2020 20:13 deacon.frost wrote: Whut? Is there a source to that or is that some meme? You can find this on TL but it's very very old so not sure what to look like. But yeah Appollo said something along those line a while ago | ||
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
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M3t4PhYzX
Poland4163 Posts
On August 28 2020 19:34 Duke_nk wrote: Now take away the blizzard funding for tournaments and get rid of the 100k ASL fees. Now each ASL has 100k more in price money and there would be no GSL or WCS anymore. SC2 isn't sustainable. BW is. hear, hear | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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Mettis
84 Posts
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
He was not succesful so he moves on with his life outside of sc2. Good for him, nothing sad about it. | ||
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elluel
62 Posts
I've never heard of him, that's all. Wasn't trying to be rude. | ||
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Dave4
494 Posts
On August 31 2020 01:57 elluel wrote: I've never heard of him, that's all. Wasn't trying to be rude. Clearly were | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On August 31 2020 01:57 elluel wrote: I've never heard of him, that's all. Wasn't trying to be rude. I mean neither had I but the thread gave some info on who he was and didn’t feel the need to comment such a thing. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On August 31 2020 01:57 elluel wrote: I've never heard of him, that's all. Wasn't trying to be rude. There's a link to liquipedia in the first post if you are honestly wondering, but I doubt that was your intent | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 28 2020 18:01 Blargh wrote: https://youtu.be/j5zeMtEcQoI Anyway, the state of the game might ultimately be related to Blizzard, in that they developed a game that did not have mainstream appeal, but blaming them for their treatment of the scene is sort of silly. It might not seem it to some people because Blizz is an EVIL corporation, but a lot of what was done for Starcraft by Blizz was through acts of charity and care for the franchise. Players retiring is almost completely due to the lack of a B-scene. Truly, there is no B-scene right now. I'm pretty sure half the money players are getting is either charity or from shady sources. And that's just how it goes with most 10 year old games, you know. There really aren't that many games that have had even this resilience. Starcrafts and Melee, are some of the only ones to have had a scene its entire lifetime. And at this point, neither of those scenes is particularly profitable. Like, it's more of a break-even kind of scene. No one's getting rich over here. Did you miss the part where Blizzard forced the region lock and created the WCS and started to fund GSL? Many people are blaming Blizzard because they forced the region lock even AFTER the KeSPA withdrawl. Because if you're born in Korea it magically increases your Starcraft skills, it's not about the infrastructure which is no longer there... | ||
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Mettis
84 Posts
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Zergiica
Croatia125 Posts
so, if someone controls almost everything (or everything) than you can't say "it's not their fault". it is. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On September 10 2020 16:07 Zergiica wrote: controlling, forcing, banning and forbidding never gets you anywhere. losing korean scene means losing whole scene. not tomorrow but soon. so, if someone controls almost everything (or everything) than you can't say "it's not their fault". it is. Does it though? Don’t get my wrong it would be pretty fucking shit given the history and the great players and personalities out of Korea. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13964 Posts
On September 11 2020 01:47 Wombat_NI_RVANA wrote: Does it though? Don’t get my wrong it would be pretty fucking shit given the history and the great players and personalities out of Korea. Lot of fans like the skill that comes from Korea. You lose Korea, you lose those fans. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On September 11 2020 04:17 Cricketer12 wrote: Lot of fans like the skill that comes from Korea. You lose Korea, you lose those fans. If you lose the skill. I mean I watch foreign tournaments a fair bit myself but I tend to get through almost all of the GSL and Super Tournament, it’s definitely an attraction for me for sure. Korea is Starcraft Mecca and birthed modern eSports as we know it, so the decline there is to be lamented but I’m not sure would be terminal for the overall scene. Game’s basically always been more popular overseas and gets its viewership from foreign land | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On September 11 2020 05:42 Wombat_NI_RVANA wrote: If you lose the skill. I mean I watch foreign tournaments a fair bit myself but I tend to get through almost all of the GSL and Super Tournament, it’s definitely an attraction for me for sure. Korea is Starcraft Mecca and birthed modern eSports as we know it, so the decline there is to be lamented but I’m not sure would be terminal for the overall scene. Game’s basically always been more popular overseas and gets its viewership from foreign land Nobody says it would be terminal, as nobody knows the real numbers. But it would a loss 1) You lose viewers 2) You lose shit ton of skill with Korea gone 3) You lose reputation as you lost the country which gave you SC e-sport Do the math yourself. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6793 Posts
Right now we'll have 2 years of Starcraft 2 guaranteed. After that, nobody knows. Lets enjoy those 2 years, lets sub to channels, lets follow content creators, lets watch 4 stream on 2 displays simultaneously and lets cheer for our favorites. Lets show Blizz and ESL that we care! On September 11 2020 07:25 deacon.frost wrote: Nobody says it would be terminal, as nobody knows the real numbers. But it would a loss 1) You lose viewers 2) You lose shit ton of skill with Korea gone 3) You lose reputation as you lost the country which gave you SC e-sport Do the math yourself. 1) yes 2) mhhhmmm not really, since no new blood is picking up SC2 anyway in Korea 3) mmhm they are still playing bw and probably will for 20+ more years. And they don't gave us Starcraft e-sport, they gave us e-Sport in general | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24262 Posts
On September 11 2020 16:00 Harris1st wrote: A big motivator for foreign Starcraft was always that one day you get to play versus the allmighty Koreans. This fantasy slowly dissipates as Korean Starcraft declines. Does it suck? Yes of course. Right now we'll have 2 years of Starcraft 2 guaranteed. After that, nobody knows. Lets enjoy those 2 years, lets sub to channels, lets follow content creators, lets watch 4 stream on 2 displays simultaneously and lets cheer for our favorites. Lets show Blizz and ESL that we care! 1) yes 2) mhhhmmm not really, since no new blood is picking up SC2 anyway in Korea 3) mmhm they are still playing bw and probably will for 20+ more years. And they don't gave us Starcraft e-sport, they gave us e-Sport in general I’d argue that in some degree the fantasy dissipated when foreign land produced a player that could take it to the Koreans on a consistent basis. The One Ring becomes a bit less Interesting when it’s been chucked into Mount Doom. | ||
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followZeRoX
Serbia1449 Posts
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CynicalDeath
Italy3147 Posts
On September 11 2020 22:23 followZeRoX wrote: I don't know if that twitter post is correct as Rookie plays in Blazing series atm, beating Nice. yep, it's correct, he is still playing in some tournaments atm | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On September 11 2020 22:47 CynicalDeath wrote: yep, it's correct, he is still playing in some tournaments atm Typical Starcraft retirement | ||
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