Teams are useful for players, but there haven't been any team leagues that attracted a lot of viewers (maybe except proleague, but even proleague stopped being fun at the end when JinAir was way better than everyone else). GSTL or Acer Teamstory Cup weren't a huge success, even at the time SC2 was stronger.

Except for a few teams like team liquid. It's hard nowadays to identify with a team in SC2. There is too much roster rotation and it's often more like a personal sponsorship than a "real" team.

This kind of event will be fun and the idea of a draft is cool. How many people complaining about this event not being a team league actually care about a team league like GTC? I would rather watch a fun one-shot event where we see the best players drafted in teams than a regular team league that lasts for months without much interest.

Whatson

United States5356 Posts

June 17 2020 19:36 GMT

#63

On June 17 2020 15:31 Fighter wrote:
Can't those teams still send their players? The players can still go, with their team names and jerseys (if on camera at all). They can still give shoutouts to sponsors if they win. What's the difference between a team sending their players to this, versus sending their players to any regular solo tourney? I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here...

I know that AS teams, they'd like a proper team league where they can get more of the spot light, but... come on. This isn't 2011. I don't even know more than 1-2 of those teams. Admittedly, I've become a filthy casual, but I USED to be pretty big on SC2, and I have to imagine that a lot of people are in my shoes as well. How many people are going to tune in to watch a team league with teams they don't even know? On the other hand, most people do remember their favorite casters, and I'd DEFINITELY tune in to see a caster coached team pick tournament.

Idk, seems like the people complaining here are a little too close to the action to have much perspective on this. Kudos to Blizzard and Wardi for organizing something interesting and fun.

I used to follow SC2 religiously, even at the beginning of LotV, and I have no idea who any of these teams are LOL so yeah you're definitely not the only one.

Elentos

55553 Posts

June 17 2020 20:42 GMT

#64

On June 18 2020 03:11 Shathe wrote:
Why does everyone keep saying its a one off event / possibility?

Well Wardi is one of the main organizers and he said it's a one-off.

RDaneelOlivaw

Vatican City State733 Posts

June 17 2020 20:59 GMT

#65

Hard to be interested in team leagues w/ real teams these with how much churn there has been in the scene with teams coming and going. Are there any actual rival teams these days? EG Masters Cup was fun back in the day because we got to see the plucky foreign teams try to knock of some Koreans and we got the EG vs TL rivalry matches.

Howard_Kao

China261 Posts

June 17 2020 21:17 GMT

#66

On June 18 2020 05:42 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

Well Wardi is one of the main organizers and he said it's a one-off.

If this is an one-off event just for the ten year anniversary I'll support it with both my hands up, if they're going to make it a long term repetitive event, then no. Good to know it's a one-off event.

Schelim

Austria11528 Posts

June 17 2020 22:12 GMT

#67

I understand the teams' perspective. but tbh, i've long lost track of what teams there are and who is on what team. outside of TL and JinAir, the team names have just become random clutter before a player's name to me. judging by the comments in here I'm not the only one.

I suppose if the casters agree with the teams on this, they could agree on each caster picking the roster of one team.

Waxangel

United States33425 Posts

June 18 2020 01:42 GMT

#68

I think it's pretty clear that we're all glad for whatever $150k size event comes along. But it can also be a perfectly valid (if roundabout) impetus to discuss the state of the pro-team ecosystem and what kind of appetite there is for more high-stakes team competition. In general, I think any discussion about what the best use of War Chest funds is is important and shouldn't be trivialized or brushed off as "toxicity" or "drama." In fact, I think all the points from the teams have been made respectfully and constructively, and I think it's in quite bad faith to frame their criticisms otherwise.

Gina

241 Posts

June 18 2020 07:34 GMT

#69

When the regular events start moving offline it's going to be difficult to sustain a team league with teams and players from around the world. Either you stay online and it's not as prestigious (and cross-server), or you go offline and spend what kind of money for regular fllying around?..
That may be it about the Chinese team league, it works well with Korea-based teams/rosters but I don't see foreign teams joining in.

So I don't think it likely to be a regular thing.

Ziggy

South Korea2105 Posts

June 18 2020 07:37 GMT

#70

On June 18 2020 16:34 Gina wrote:
When the regular events start moving offline it's going to be difficult to sustain a team league with teams and players from around the world. Either you stay online and it's not as prestigious (and cross-server), or you go offline and spend what kind of money for regular fllying around?..
That may be it about the Chinese team league, it works well with Korea-based teams/rosters but I don't see foreign teams joining in.

So I don't think it likely to be a regular thing.

ign used to run an online teamleague that most people seemed content with

JustPassingBy

10776 Posts

June 18 2020 08:27 GMT

#71

On June 18 2020 00:25 Elentos wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think just because it's funded by Warchest money you shouldn't compare it to Blizzcon or Katowice. Those are the world championships (well Blizzcon used to be). This is more like GSL vs The World - fun extra content largely based on popularity. And probably a one-of for the 10 year anniversary.

It's hard not to compare it to Blizzcon or Katowice, if I am paying the same money for it. (Disclaimer: I've bought the previous warchests primarily to fund tournaments. I don't really care about the skins since I don't ladder anymore and you cannot use them in coop)

Anyways, I do agree with the sentiment that a strict team league does not make a lot of sense since there are very few high profile team left. But I do hope that it is possible to involve the current teams in some nontrivial capacity. With all due respect to Wardi, whom this community owes so much more than he gets credit for, I generally find the idea of running a team league, but expanding the role of casters instead of actually engaging the existing teams, quite irritating.

kubaPS

Germany162 Posts

June 19 2020 13:45 GMT

#72

It's time for caster teams:

Elentos

55553 Posts

June 19 2020 14:00 GMT

#73

On June 19 2020 22:45 kubaPS wrote:
It's time for caster teams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGV-1TPIzz4

Seems unrelated to the event.

ZombieGrub

United States705 Posts

June 19 2020 14:59 GMT

#74

On June 18 2020 16:37 Ziggy wrote:

Show nested quote +

ign used to run an online teamleague that most people seemed content with

Not sure we can compare anything with the golden era of SC2. Gina's correct to say it's not as prestigious imo. The last team league I remember being popular for both KR and non-KR teams and viewers was the Acer TeamStory League? And that got too difficult to organize and was slowly declining in hype/viewership afair.

On June 19 2020 22:45 kubaPS wrote:
It's time for caster teams: + Show Spoiler +

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGV-1TPIzz4

This is totally unrelated to the War Chest stuff.

Captain Peabody

United States3111 Posts

June 19 2020 15:44 GMT

#75

A teamleague is definitely the best model for sustaining meaningful teams and team identity over time. I still have very fond memories of Proleague in BW, and it seems like it's a model that sponsors really like as well (which is why KESPA was so hard-core into it). It was also good for players who weren't at the top of the scene but could reliably play and compete in a less pressured and individual environment.

Even in KESPA-days, though, there was significant tension between the teams' interests and those of the top players, who were more interested in individual leagues and titles and often resented the pressure to prioritize Proleague, and that would loom larger in a smaller and more top-heavy scene. It's also unclear to me whether the current crop of teams is actually capable of sustaining that kind of model as they are now. Proleague depended on the KESPA system with its very winnowed-down and regulated list of acknowledged teams with deep rosters and B-teams. It seems like the team ecosystem now is much more ad hoc, with very different sizes and levels of organization and player depth, not to mention scattered throughout the world, all of which would make it much harder to run something like Proleague.

I do think that having something like Proleague again would be great and contribute to the long-term sustainability of the scene, and arguably that's a goal that Blizzard should be working towards, as they're probably the only ppl in the scene with the resources and pull to actually build up the necessary infrastructure and make it happen.

It seems unlikely to me, though, that anything could be pulled together right away. The $150,000 showmatch league seems like kind of a red herring for that, but if it gets future Warchest funds earmarked in that direction maybe it'll be for the best. Certainly there's no reason to ascribe malice or lack of passion to the casters and players and organizers involved.