On March 02 2020 03:08 Xain0n wrote: Rogue is very strong when Zerg is strong, and he openly says that. When Zerg is not strong, he drops 0-4 out of Code S. You could forgive Mizen when he called him a patch Zerg because that was just the first patch in which Rogue shone.
In reality, Rogue is kind of a Zerg version of Inno, and he doesn't have many fans because of his extremely abusive playstyle. At his best he is much stronger than Dark in ZvZ and more aggressive and more clutch than Serral(of the current version of Serral, at least).
I think we can consider LoTV as a Z patch. INno has a lot of fans.
Inno shares with Rogue the fact that he is very strong when his race is strong, not his playstyle.
and with Serral
Lies.
It is just a coincidence that he was nothing as a player until 2017 when the world champion was called a patch Zerg, that 2018 had Scarlett who had never won or come close to winning anything ever win her first premiere championship, and that 2019 had soO break his Kong curse, Dark break his worse than soO Kong curse, and Rogue break his GSL curse.
Blatant, gratuitous lies in fact. Serral went full time in 2017, ascended to god tier level mid 2018 when no other Zerg was doing well and won HSC when every Zerg, Rogue included was getting stomped by Terran. Aren't you bored of hating for the sake of it? That's something Imre would call pathetic.
In 2018: Scarlett won IEM PyeongChang Rogue won IEM Katowice Dark made 5 top 4s, two of which he made the finals and lost 4:3.
It's really evil to use facts. But what gets me - they actually mentioned 2018 champion Rogue in the finals. So he should have known at least that.
It's really pointless to use facts not disproving what I have been saying, and really hilarious thinking to be smart while mentioning them.
All these results took place before Serral ascended(MID 2018 tells you anything?);Dark lost to Stats at Super Tournament I in April 2018, before Serral lost 0-2 to soO during Nation Wars. After that, Serral didn't lose a series until Katowice in 2019 and won 6 consecutive tournaments while korean Zerg couldn't reach ro4 in seasons 2 and 3 of Code S and Reynor was the only other Zerg getting to a final, at WCS Montreal.
Lets count Serrals results only from the time he stared winning guys, that seems like a really good metric ! The Xianoin logic in practice
On March 02 2020 03:08 Xain0n wrote: Rogue is very strong when Zerg is strong, and he openly says that. When Zerg is not strong, he drops 0-4 out of Code S. You could forgive Mizen when he called him a patch Zerg because that was just the first patch in which Rogue shone.
In reality, Rogue is kind of a Zerg version of Inno, and he doesn't have many fans because of his extremely abusive playstyle. At his best he is much stronger than Dark in ZvZ and more aggressive and more clutch than Serral(of the current version of Serral, at least).
I think we can consider LoTV as a Z patch. INno has a lot of fans.
Inno shares with Rogue the fact that he is very strong when his race is strong, not his playstyle.
and with Serral
Lies.
It is just a coincidence that he was nothing as a player until 2017 when the world champion was called a patch Zerg, that 2018 had Scarlett who had never won or come close to winning anything ever win her first premiere championship, and that 2019 had soO break his Kong curse, Dark break his worse than soO Kong curse, and Rogue break his GSL curse.
Blatant, gratuitous lies in fact. Serral went full time in 2017, ascended to god tier level mid 2018 when no other Zerg was doing well and won HSC when every Zerg, Rogue included was getting stomped by Terran. Aren't you bored of hating for the sake of it? That's something Imre would call pathetic.
In 2018: Scarlett won IEM PyeongChang Rogue won IEM Katowice Dark made 5 top 4s, two of which he made the finals and lost 4:3.
It's really evil to use facts. But what gets me - they actually mentioned 2018 champion Rogue in the finals. So he should have known at least that.
It's really pointless to use facts not disproving what I have been saying, and really hilarious thinking to be smart while mentioning them.
All these results took place before Serral ascended(MID 2018 tells you anything?);Dark lost to Stats at Super Tournament I in April 2018, before Serral lost 0-2 to soO during Nation Wars. After that, Serral didn't lose a series until Katowice in 2019 and won 6 consecutive tournaments while korean Zerg couldn't reach ro4 in seasons 2 and 3 of Code S and Reynor was the only other Zerg getting to a final, at WCS Montreal.
Lets count Serrals results only from the time he stared winning guys, that seems like a really good metric ! The Xianoin logic in practice
If you did not notice, the discussion started because someone said Serral won/wins when Zerg is strong so it should seem logical to everyone that I start counting from there.
I think we can consider LoTV as a Z patch. INno has a lot of fans.
Inno shares with Rogue the fact that he is very strong when his race is strong, not his playstyle.
and with Serral
Lies.
It is just a coincidence that he was nothing as a player until 2017 when the world champion was called a patch Zerg, that 2018 had Scarlett who had never won or come close to winning anything ever win her first premiere championship, and that 2019 had soO break his Kong curse, Dark break his worse than soO Kong curse, and Rogue break his GSL curse.
Blatant, gratuitous lies in fact. Serral went full time in 2017, ascended to god tier level mid 2018 when no other Zerg was doing well and won HSC when every Zerg, Rogue included was getting stomped by Terran. Aren't you bored of hating for the sake of it? That's something Imre would call pathetic.
In 2018: Scarlett won IEM PyeongChang Rogue won IEM Katowice Dark made 5 top 4s, two of which he made the finals and lost 4:3.
It's really evil to use facts. But what gets me - they actually mentioned 2018 champion Rogue in the finals. So he should have known at least that.
It's really pointless to use facts not disproving what I have been saying, and really hilarious thinking to be smart while mentioning them.
All these results took place before Serral ascended(MID 2018 tells you anything?);Dark lost to Stats at Super Tournament I in April 2018, before Serral lost 0-2 to soO during Nation Wars. After that, Serral didn't lose a series until Katowice in 2019 and won 6 consecutive tournaments while korean Zerg couldn't reach ro4 in seasons 2 and 3 of Code S and Reynor was the only other Zerg getting to a final, at WCS Montreal.
Lets count Serrals results only from the time he stared winning guys, that seems like a really good metric ! The Xianoin logic in practice
If you did not notice, the discussion started because someone said Serral won/wins when Zerg is strong so it should seem logical to everyone that I start counting from there.
On a side note, "Xiainoin" genuinely amused me
If Zerg was weak when Classic spanked Serral like a little bitch, how did Rogue make Classic look like a complete clown about two hours later to win a world title?
If Zerg was weak when Maru made Serral call him daddy, how did Dark manage to push Maru to his limit such that he had to proxy rax him twice in a row to win WESG?
On March 02 2020 03:08 Xain0n wrote: Rogue is very strong when Zerg is strong, and he openly says that. When Zerg is not strong, he drops 0-4 out of Code S. You could forgive Mizen when he called him a patch Zerg because that was just the first patch in which Rogue shone.
In reality, Rogue is kind of a Zerg version of Inno, and he doesn't have many fans because of his extremely abusive playstyle. At his best he is much stronger than Dark in ZvZ and more aggressive and more clutch than Serral(of the current version of Serral, at least).
I think we can consider LoTV as a Z patch. INno has a lot of fans.
Inno shares with Rogue the fact that he is very strong when his race is strong, not his playstyle.
yeah that's why he was the only T to get into ro16 during the blink era. Inno has won titles almost every year. Patch Terran. You're pathetic.
It really looks like you started watching SC2 with LotV.
This idea of patch Terran Inno is yours entirely, jumping to conclusions is pathetic, isn't it? Inno, unlike Maru, tends not to shine when Terran is weak; this doesn't mean he never did, but his career as a top player(not merely as a sc2) is much longer than Rogue's, and more successful.
Yup if you think that Maru shined when Terran was weak you're definitely a LotV only watcher. There are probably less than 10 pro who were extremely good when their race was stupidly weak .Nestea, Mvp, MC, Polt for the first 5 years were good example at some points but it was easier for Nestea/MC since the game was young, I don't know who would be the best P against BL/Infestor in 2012 for that. Polt was the only Terran with one good run in the Blink era and I won't comment on PvZ imbalance by ignorance and lack of memory. Terran since then has always been ok and a race you could win with, with ups (late HotS mech vZ, dropping on colossi vP, Liberators bonanza and raven patch in LotV) and down but nothing that would cripple a top player into ro16/8.
Maru never had anything close to Polt's miraculous run at IEM Cologne which is probably the best showing of anyone fighting stupid imbalance.
Doing well in an unfavored era doesn't mean necessarily actually winning trophies. Late 2013 until mid 2014 was brutally dominated by Protoss and Zerg. All 7 premier events which Maru played at that time were won by a Protoss. In 2 of those events Maru was one of the two last Terrans in the other 5 events he was the last Terran standing. He was called Terran messiah for a reason still in 2015 when Maru had a good performance again and Protoss also had an upswing again. Also many forget that Maru was absoluty killing it in Proleague in 2014 and 2015, continiously performing great no matter how disfavorable the meta may have been for terran at times.
Inno shares with Rogue the fact that he is very strong when his race is strong, not his playstyle.
and with Serral
Lies.
It is just a coincidence that he was nothing as a player until 2017 when the world champion was called a patch Zerg, that 2018 had Scarlett who had never won or come close to winning anything ever win her first premiere championship, and that 2019 had soO break his Kong curse, Dark break his worse than soO Kong curse, and Rogue break his GSL curse.
Blatant, gratuitous lies in fact. Serral went full time in 2017, ascended to god tier level mid 2018 when no other Zerg was doing well and won HSC when every Zerg, Rogue included was getting stomped by Terran. Aren't you bored of hating for the sake of it? That's something Imre would call pathetic.
In 2018: Scarlett won IEM PyeongChang Rogue won IEM Katowice Dark made 5 top 4s, two of which he made the finals and lost 4:3.
It's really evil to use facts. But what gets me - they actually mentioned 2018 champion Rogue in the finals. So he should have known at least that.
It's really pointless to use facts not disproving what I have been saying, and really hilarious thinking to be smart while mentioning them.
All these results took place before Serral ascended(MID 2018 tells you anything?);Dark lost to Stats at Super Tournament I in April 2018, before Serral lost 0-2 to soO during Nation Wars. After that, Serral didn't lose a series until Katowice in 2019 and won 6 consecutive tournaments while korean Zerg couldn't reach ro4 in seasons 2 and 3 of Code S and Reynor was the only other Zerg getting to a final, at WCS Montreal.
Lets count Serrals results only from the time he stared winning guys, that seems like a really good metric ! The Xianoin logic in practice
If you did not notice, the discussion started because someone said Serral won/wins when Zerg is strong so it should seem logical to everyone that I start counting from there.
On a side note, "Xiainoin" genuinely amused me
If Zerg was weak when Classic spanked Serral like a little bitch, how did Rogue make Classic look like a complete clown about two hours later to win a world title?
If Zerg was weak when Maru made Serral call him daddy, how did Dark manage to push Maru to his limit such that he had to proxy rax him twice in a row to win WESG?
That's being dull and/or not reading what I am writing.
Pyeonchang, Katowice, WESG tournaments took place before Serral fully expressed his potential; at the time, Rogue and Dark simply were stronger players.
Serral reached his peak months later, on a different patch that saw other Zerg players not winning any tournament; I didn't and would not say that the race was weak but it certainly wasn't very strong or dominant like you guys are claiming.
Those unnecessarily provocative terms you are using are simply out of place.
On March 02 2020 03:08 Xain0n wrote: Rogue is very strong when Zerg is strong, and he openly says that. When Zerg is not strong, he drops 0-4 out of Code S. You could forgive Mizen when he called him a patch Zerg because that was just the first patch in which Rogue shone.
In reality, Rogue is kind of a Zerg version of Inno, and he doesn't have many fans because of his extremely abusive playstyle. At his best he is much stronger than Dark in ZvZ and more aggressive and more clutch than Serral(of the current version of Serral, at least).
I think we can consider LoTV as a Z patch. INno has a lot of fans.
Inno shares with Rogue the fact that he is very strong when his race is strong, not his playstyle.
yeah that's why he was the only T to get into ro16 during the blink era. Inno has won titles almost every year. Patch Terran. You're pathetic.
It really looks like you started watching SC2 with LotV.
This idea of patch Terran Inno is yours entirely, jumping to conclusions is pathetic, isn't it? Inno, unlike Maru, tends not to shine when Terran is weak; this doesn't mean he never did, but his career as a top player(not merely as a sc2) is much longer than Rogue's, and more successful.
Yup if you think that Maru shined when Terran was weak you're definitely a LotV only watcher. There are probably less than 10 pro who were extremely good when their race was stupidly weak .Nestea, Mvp, MC, Polt for the first 5 years were good example at some points but it was easier for Nestea/MC since the game was young, I don't know who would be the best P against BL/Infestor in 2012 for that. Polt was the only Terran with one good run in the Blink era and I won't comment on PvZ imbalance by ignorance and lack of memory. Terran since then has always been ok and a race you could win with, with ups (late HotS mech vZ, dropping on colossi vP, Liberators bonanza and raven patch in LotV) and down but nothing that would cripple a top player into ro16/8.
Maru never had anything close to Polt's miraculous run at IEM Cologne which is probably the best showing of anyone fighting stupid imbalance.
Doing well in an unfavored era doesn't mean necessarily actually winning trophies. Late 2013 until mid 2014 was brutally dominated by Protoss and Zerg. All 7 premier events which Maru played at that time were won by a Protoss. In 2 of those events Maru was one of the two last Terrans in the other 5 events he was the last Terran standing. He was called Terran messiah for a reason still in 2015 when Maru had a good performance again and Protoss also had an upswing again. Also many forget that Maru was absoluty killing it in Proleague in 2014 and 2015, continiously performing great no matter how disfavorable the meta may have been for terran at times.
There might be some sweet spot for him that’s somewhere between Terran being absolutely garbage and on par with the other races.
Bad for the game sure, probably not bad for Maru if it’s slightly unbalanced. His potential opponents get less vT practice in general and Mary has to practice less vT if they aren’t around.
I dare say, despite the Blizzcon win that Dark would be a beneficiary if Zerg was a bit weaker now and brackets were less Zerg stacked.
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function percent(v, total) { return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%"; }
var out='counting finalists\n'; for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) { var h=$('#'+i); var c = count(h); if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) { h=$('#'+i+"_2"); c = count(h, c); } out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z; out += "\n percents: "; out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n"; } console.log(out);
2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for any year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course)
function count(header, c) { var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0]; table = $(table); var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length; var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length; var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length; if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z}; else { c.t+=t; c.p+=p; c.z+=z; } c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z; return c; }
function percent(v, total) { return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%"; }
var out='counting finalists\n'; for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) { var h=$('#'+i); var c = count(h); if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) { h=$('#'+i+"_2"); c = count(h, c); } out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z; out += "\n percents: "; out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n"; } console.log(out);
2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for a year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course)
terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol
Terran representation would be even lower if you were to expand the range to quarter-finals instead of finals. The brackets in this IEM were stacked with mirror MUs which gives us the impression that Terrans can make it deep into tourneys because of Maru and Inno.
function count(header, c) { var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0]; table = $(table); var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length; var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length; var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length; if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z}; else { c.t+=t; c.p+=p; c.z+=z; } c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z; return c; }
function percent(v, total) { return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%"; }
var out='counting finalists\n'; for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) { var h=$('#'+i); var c = count(h); if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) { h=$('#'+i+"_2"); c = count(h, c); } out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z; out += "\n percents: "; out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n"; } console.log(out);
2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for a year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course)
terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol
Terran representation would be even lower if you were to expand the range to quarter-finals instead of finals. The brackets in this IEM were stacked with mirror MUs which gives us the impression that Terrans can make it deep into tourneys because of Maru and Inno.
Maru is almost always the last terran standing, it's insane
function count(header, c) { var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0]; table = $(table); var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length; var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length; var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length; if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z}; else { c.t+=t; c.p+=p; c.z+=z; } c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z; return c; }
function percent(v, total) { return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%"; }
var out='counting finalists\n'; for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) { var h=$('#'+i); var c = count(h); if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) { h=$('#'+i+"_2"); c = count(h, c); } out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z; out += "\n percents: "; out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n"; } console.log(out);
2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for a year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course)
terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol
Terran representation would be even lower if you were to expand the range to quarter-finals instead of finals. The brackets in this IEM were stacked with mirror MUs which gives us the impression that Terrans can make it deep into tourneys because of Maru and Inno.
Maru is almost always the last terran standing, it's insane
As a Terran player, it's rare for me to randomly turn on a tournament stream and find a Terran. I know it should be like 33% ideally, but realistically, it feels like 10% or less.
I think the design for Terran has to be more forgiving with the same potential at near-max (maru) skill level. That way, there will be plenty of Terran games to watch, and Maru doesn't bankrupt all other SC2 pros. lol
function count(header, c) { var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0]; table = $(table); var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length; var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length; var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length; if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z}; else { c.t+=t; c.p+=p; c.z+=z; } c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z; return c; }
function percent(v, total) { return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%"; }
var out='counting finalists\n'; for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) { var h=$('#'+i); var c = count(h); if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) { h=$('#'+i+"_2"); c = count(h, c); } out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z; out += "\n percents: "; out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n"; } console.log(out);
2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for a year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course)
terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol
Terran representation would be even lower if you were to expand the range to quarter-finals instead of finals. The brackets in this IEM were stacked with mirror MUs which gives us the impression that Terrans can make it deep into tourneys because of Maru and Inno.
Maru is almost always the last terran standing, it's insane
I think part of it come from the relatively bad performance of Terran in Korea during Hots, there doesn't seem to have been a lot of Kespa terran who stuck around for long compare to the Protoss and Zerg.(especially protoss since they did so well in the Kespa-era) In 2016 we pretty much only had TY, Cure, INno and Bunny left, with of course the pre-kespa crew but most of them ended up on losing team during proleague and the top teams had very few terran player in their squad, Maru going from Prime to JinAir is the only transfer of a terran to a big team I can think of. Losing Bbyong and Yoda to match fixing didn't help either.
Maybe if Terran had did better during HOTS we would have seen guys like Dream, SuperNova and Fantasy wait longer to go to the military, or Flash, Reality and Skyhigh stick around a bit, or maybe we could have seen aLive and Ryung in the SKT or JinAir team house.
those who think serral sucks simply because he lost to zest, trust me, it is just that zest being lucky. if the competition goes like everyone has to play with all other opponents. i suppose serral will win most of the games. and trust me, because of time and budget issue, these esports companies simply wont do it, triggering unfairness.
cant they run esports just like English Premier League... so stupid
How many were watching the finals? Unfortunately I couldn't catch any games on sunday but the days before felt like there wasn't too much interest in the tournament.
On March 02 2020 02:04 StarcraftSquall wrote: Never talk about Maru vs Serral again: Kaelaris and Artosis both had to go and open their big mouths. Although Maynarde looking visibly pissed on the desk was a fun photo grab after we knew we’d lost it again.
Maru vs Serral is now like Fight Club. And you do not talk about Fight Club.
function count(header, c) { var table = header.parent().nextAll('table')[0]; table = $(table); var t = table.find('[title=Terran]').length; var p = table.find('[title=Protoss]').length; var z = table.find('[title=Zerg]').length; if(!c) c={t:t,p:p,z:z}; else { c.t+=t; c.p+=p; c.z+=z; } c.total = c.t+c.p+c.z; return c; }
function percent(v, total) { return Math.round(v/total*100)+"%"; }
var out='counting finalists\n'; for(var i=2010; i<=2020; i++) { var h=$('#'+i); var c = count(h); if( $('#'+i+"_2").length ) { h=$('#'+i+"_2"); c = count(h, c); } out += i+", T="+c.t+", P="+c.p+", Z="+c.z; out += "\n percents: "; out += "T="+percent(c.t, c.total)+", P="+percent(c.p, c.total)+", Z="+percent(c.z, c.total)+"\n\n"; } console.log(out);
2019 is the worst percentage with zerg at 62%, otherwise no race has gotten over 50% for any year, and the only 50% was back in 2010 with terran (excluding this year of course)
terran has been the lowest race since 2014 lol
Interesting. Could you do the same count for Top4? And maybe also Top8?
On March 02 2020 15:43 Harris1st wrote: Also: Damn guys, the hate in this thread... dafuq is going on?
Yeah, and it's just ridiculous that it's the same group of people who redo this debate after every single event. Reminds me of the Terminator movies or something, just let it go already.
EPT
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