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Active: 641 users

Dark, KeeN advance to Code S quarterfinals

Forum Index > SC2 General
48 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 Next All
TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-28 21:42:54
August 28 2019 19:20 GMT
#1
[image loading]
2019 Global StarCraft II League - Code S Season 3

GSL Code S resumed with its first round-of-sixteen group where defending championship Dark advanced in first place, followed by KeeN who advanced in second.

While Dark had been gleeful about assembling three of the weakest Terrans during July's group selection ceremony, the actual matches turned out to be tougher than he may have expected. KeeN surprised him in the opening match, using the newly improved Ghosts to out-duel him in a split-map war on King's Cove. While Dark did eventually advance with victories over KeeN and FanTaSy, he did not quite live up to his reputation as one of Korea's best late-game players as he struggled against mech play from both opponents.

After his initial, strong showing against Dark, KeeN was able to advance in second place by surviving a close, three-way, Terran vs Terran shootout against FanTaSy and SpeCial (could we call it a Mexican standoff?). Though KeeN was able to celebrate his first Code S quarterfinal appearance in over eight years, it was tempered by somber news as well: After the matches, KeeN announced that this season of Code S would be his last, as his mandatory military service was set to begin shortly.



+ Show Spoiler [View Matches] +

The Code S Ro16 will resume on Saturday, Aug 31 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) with Group B, featuring Trap, Cure, herO, and TY (check out Liquipedia for more information).

Catch up on the games on YouTube
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TL+ Member
General_Winter
Profile Joined February 2011
United States719 Posts
August 28 2019 20:40 GMT
#2
Great games. Well worth watching and a lot of fun. Fantasy is getting so close. Won every game he played. Threw every game he played. And then came back after the throw to win a few of them a second time. But not enough. Still. He just needs to throw a little bit less and he’d be so good.
Miralem Ibrahim
Profile Joined April 2019
40 Posts
August 28 2019 20:51 GMT
#3
Really exiting to see Keen at this level. His first game against Dark was such a master class of terran late game.
THERIDDLER
Profile Joined July 2014
Canada116 Posts
August 28 2019 21:06 GMT
#4
has keen ever lost a game on king's cove?
Please don't fricken hack, its just a game.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4906 Posts
August 28 2019 22:19 GMT
#5
Keen! so happy for him GG
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
August 28 2019 23:24 GMT
#6
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
August 28 2019 23:41 GMT
#7
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

It’s one of those interesting ideas that throws so much convention out of the window that I’m curious how it would work.

Protoss don’t trade all that great without the forge and chrono combo putting them ahead in ups, specifically armour for tanklots, so bio/ghost with the spells swap is essentially an ‘un-upgrade’ in that sense. Would be interesting for sure, my intuition would be that adding anti armour ghosts who share upgrades and production with bio would wreck Protoss. Ravens are already super strong but they’re constrained by needing your Starport for medivacs and other factors.

I like the Raven a lot as a unit currently. My bias as to spellcasters is that adding a few can make your army better, but adding a load makes it worse. So a few Arbiters or defilers vs mass of either or whatever
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
August 29 2019 00:20 GMT
#8
On August 29 2019 06:06 THERIDDLER wrote:
has keen ever lost a game on king's cove?


He lost to Zest on it in the Assembly qualifiers, but his winrate on it in big games is pretty crazy.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
August 29 2019 01:01 GMT
#9
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

"dark is the better player and played out of his mind, but i'm still angry terran didn't win because reasons"
TL+ Member
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-29 01:09:56
August 29 2019 01:07 GMT
#10
i always underrate keen in my liquibets. i know he is super good and has been super good for a long time. i picked special over him in this case. would like to see him get deep here. has he ever been to a final in code S? or even a semifinal??
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
AlexZhang1012
Profile Joined June 2019
63 Posts
August 29 2019 01:12 GMT
#11
Mexican standoff.. That's a good one Really excited to see Keen make it back to round of 8 again.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
August 29 2019 01:13 GMT
#12
On August 29 2019 10:07 Alejandrisha wrote:
i always underrate keen in my liquibets. i know he is super good and has been super good for a long time. i picked special over him in this case. would like to see him get deep here. has he ever been to a final in code S? or even a semifinal??

I mean results wise I really don’t think you’re underrating him, this wound have been his first Ro8 in like 2400 days or something
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-29 01:19:31
August 29 2019 01:18 GMT
#13
On August 29 2019 10:13 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2019 10:07 Alejandrisha wrote:
i always underrate keen in my liquibets. i know he is super good and has been super good for a long time. i picked special over him in this case. would like to see him get deep here. has he ever been to a final in code S? or even a semifinal??

I mean results wise I really don’t think you’re underrating him, this wound have been his first Ro8 in like 2400 days or something

yeah i suppose you are right. i think i have the artosis bias. just like cliiiiiiiiiide, artosis loves keen so damn much and i think artosis rents a room in my brain for like 30 cents a month

edit: i think by 'underrate' i meant 'completely dismiss,' in retrospect xD
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
Alejandrisha
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States6565 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-08-29 01:26:35
August 29 2019 01:21 GMT
#14
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

i think you have to accept the fact that fantasy just isn't that good. as an sc2 pro he is pretty much a t2 terran. and by that i mean he is better than every terran in the world besides like 10 of them xD

edit: i would go in to my speculation on why he doesn't play bw anymore but i'm not going to open that can of worms, even with mech having a resurgence vs Z given the map pool
get rich or die mining
TL+ Member
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
August 29 2019 01:25 GMT
#15
On August 29 2019 10:01 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

"dark is the better player and played out of his mind, but i'm still angry terran didn't win because reasons"

I know you are smart enough to discern what I said. I have a great track record of not balance whining here and a willingness to engage in discussion. And I'm always open for a good discussion over low quality posts of you're feeling up to it.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
August 29 2019 01:37 GMT
#16
On August 29 2019 10:21 Alejandrisha wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

i think you have to accept the fact that fantasy just isn't that good. as an sc2 pro he is pretty much a t2 terran. and by that i mean he is better than every terran in the world besides like 10 of them xD

Keen had the same problem as Fantasy. And many other User and have the same problem against Serral. Playing a perfect game as a Terran player sometimes isn't good enough. It's hard to make sense of it because in most cases Serral really plays brilliantly and makes almost zero mistakes in the late game. But after watching so many TvZs end the same way, after a certain point in the game you just writing the last 20 minutes of the game off as a death animation. I'm not arguing there isn't a way to do it right, but no Terran player, including Maru, has solved this puzzle yet and as a viewer you start to question wether Terran has the tools available to actually solve late game TvZ.

EMP - with upgrade to early to tell

What we see consistently fail:
Nukes - hardly does anything except zone and delay
Mass viking - bombed/fungaled/Infested
Mass Thor - spend to much time fighting broodlings to hit air
Battlefield - NP to kill each other

Today:
Thor+lib+viking+ghots: Keen's game basically was this and it looked very promising. I am staying hopeful that this build can be reproduced.

I'd love to see some discussion around other option. What compositions are out there we haven't seen yet.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
August 29 2019 01:46 GMT
#17
On August 29 2019 10:01 brickrd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

"dark is the better player and played out of his mind, but i'm still angry terran didn't win because reasons"

Pretty good reasons. Dark could win with whatever reasonable tools you gave him.

Fantasy used basically every Terran unit in a series, did a lot of cute fun stuff like swapping Viking modes to snipe bases, splitting a Thor/tank mech and somehow managing to outmanoeuvre his opponents with those comps.

Dark played great regardless. BL/Infestor//Corruptor In his hands is borderline unkillable, or Serral’s or w/e

If Zerg didn’t have moveable static D I think the slowness of the comp would make for a super interesting dynamic, you could starve them out and multiprong around it.

If it was a dynamic of picking around the edges that’d be cool, as it often plays out it’s a matter of picking around edges that don’t matter because eventually you have to face the army and just die.



'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25107 Posts
August 29 2019 01:58 GMT
#18
On August 29 2019 10:37 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2019 10:21 Alejandrisha wrote:
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

i think you have to accept the fact that fantasy just isn't that good. as an sc2 pro he is pretty much a t2 terran. and by that i mean he is better than every terran in the world besides like 10 of them xD

Keen had the same problem as Fantasy. And many other User and have the same problem against Serral. Playing a perfect game as a Terran player sometimes isn't good enough. It's hard to make sense of it because in most cases Serral really plays brilliantly and makes almost zero mistakes in the late game. But after watching so many TvZs end the same way, after a certain point in the game you just writing the last 20 minutes of the game off as a death animation. I'm not arguing there isn't a way to do it right, but no Terran player, including Maru, has solved this puzzle yet and as a viewer you start to question wether Terran has the tools available to actually solve late game TvZ.

EMP - with upgrade to early to tell

What we see consistently fail:
Nukes - hardly does anything except zone and delay
Mass viking - bombed/fungaled/Infested
Mass Thor - spend to much time fighting broodlings to hit air
Battlefield - NP to kill each other

Today:
Thor+lib+viking+ghots: Keen's game basically was this and it looked very promising. I am staying hopeful that this build can be reproduced.

I'd love to see some discussion around other option. What compositions are out there we haven't seen yet.

I don’t think there’s really A solution, purely because theoretical compositions are just way, way too hard to control. It’s already hard to control 3/4 units with differing characteristics without anything ground based being blocked by broodlings.

Maru demolished Reynor at WCG with a combo of really heavy libs, sieging to nuke infested Terrans and sending BCs in to the fray on top of it.

Haven’t seen it since, it looked interesting for sure. Reynor is in my view relatively bad for his calibre at lategame vT though so it might have been so successful because of that.

As for changes I think you could see some improvement with stuff that would be innocuous to other interactions. Thors with a smaller model and space occupied wouldn’t be stuck as badly, Vikings that were slightly faster or accelerated quicker would give Terrans more options IMO
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19231 Posts
August 29 2019 02:09 GMT
#19
On August 29 2019 10:58 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2019 10:37 BisuDagger wrote:
On August 29 2019 10:21 Alejandrisha wrote:
On August 29 2019 08:24 BisuDagger wrote:
This was a great day of Starcraft and the casters were awesome too.

I am really sad about Fantasy's losses to dark though. It is become really irritating to see Terrans grab massive leads to lose to the late game Zerg death ball. Dark played out of his mind, but it still felt hopefulness for Fantasy once the dream composition hit. I dont usually look forward to patches, but I am not sure the emp buff was enough to make late game enjoyable for viewers rooting for a Terran player.

I wonder if the raven had emp and the ghost had anti armor missiles would be a good exchange of spells.

i think you have to accept the fact that fantasy just isn't that good. as an sc2 pro he is pretty much a t2 terran. and by that i mean he is better than every terran in the world besides like 10 of them xD

Keen had the same problem as Fantasy. And many other User and have the same problem against Serral. Playing a perfect game as a Terran player sometimes isn't good enough. It's hard to make sense of it because in most cases Serral really plays brilliantly and makes almost zero mistakes in the late game. But after watching so many TvZs end the same way, after a certain point in the game you just writing the last 20 minutes of the game off as a death animation. I'm not arguing there isn't a way to do it right, but no Terran player, including Maru, has solved this puzzle yet and as a viewer you start to question wether Terran has the tools available to actually solve late game TvZ.

EMP - with upgrade to early to tell

What we see consistently fail:
Nukes - hardly does anything except zone and delay
Mass viking - bombed/fungaled/Infested
Mass Thor - spend to much time fighting broodlings to hit air
Battlefield - NP to kill each other

Today:
Thor+lib+viking+ghots: Keen's game basically was this and it looked very promising. I am staying hopeful that this build can be reproduced.

I'd love to see some discussion around other option. What compositions are out there we haven't seen yet.

I don’t think there’s really A solution, purely because theoretical compositions are just way, way too hard to control. It’s already hard to control 3/4 units with differing characteristics without anything ground based being blocked by broodlings.

Maru demolished Reynor at WCG with a combo of really heavy libs, sieging to nuke infested Terrans and sending BCs in to the fray on top of it.

Haven’t seen it since, it looked interesting for sure. Reynor is in my view relatively bad for his calibre at lategame vT though so it might have been so successful because of that.

As for changes I think you could see some improvement with stuff that would be innocuous to other interactions. Thors with a smaller model and space occupied wouldn’t be stuck as badly, Vikings that were slightly faster or accelerated quicker would give Terrans more options IMO

What if massive units could crush broodlings in the same manner that they crush forcefields. Thors would still have to take damage to get near broodlords, but it would solve mobility issues without changing the model size.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
UtherTruthBringer
Profile Joined June 2019
43 Posts
August 29 2019 03:13 GMT
#20
Fantasy gg timing
1 2 3 Next All
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