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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:37 TheOneAboveU wrote: Conveniently forgetting about championships in favour of a better narrative is SC2 tradition at this point... Protoss won only GSL Super Tournaments for like two years. That's not to say they don't mean anything, but it's a little too few. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:24 deacon.frost wrote: Both Classic and Maru have the mechanics to do it too IMO. Well Maru probably but I was thinking more in terms of Protoss players. Classic is a maybe but I feel like his micro isn't all that amazing honestly. | ||
Waxangel
United States33513 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:19 opisska wrote: I am surprised people don't talk more about the utter failure of the walled-garden WCS system in regards to the mysterious process of closing the gap. We finally have an old-school weekender open to all and what happens? Koreans laugh all over everyone else, exactly how they did since the beginning. Yes, Serral is an anomaly and his ability to stand up to Koreans is great (kinda sucks he had to run into Stats before the finals), but in general, tournaments like this prove that WCS competition is still a complete farce and people who love to pretend otherwise are delusional. I think that's a pretty aggressive oversimplification. You can't wholly attribute the emergence of players like Neeb and Serral to region lock, but you can't wholly sever that relationship either. | ||
Poopi
France12906 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:19 opisska wrote: I am surprised people don't talk more about the utter failure of the walled-garden WCS system in regards to the mysterious process of closing the gap. We finally have an old-school weekender open to all and what happens? Koreans laugh all over everyone else, exactly how they did since the beginning. Yes, Serral is an anomaly and his ability to stand up to Koreans is great (kinda sucks he had to run into Stats before the finals), but in general, tournaments like this prove that WCS competition is still a complete farce and people who love to pretend otherwise are delusional. What the heck are you talking about? Koreans returning from the military can't keep up with foreigners (see Bomber, TaeJa). A GSL champ got beaten in TvT by a foreign terran, not even named Special / training in korea. Serral is Serral and was tough to knock out, Reynor was a bit disappointing but it could have gone either way. Showtime won his group against the eventual champion. WCS is inferior but far from being a farce. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:19 opisska wrote: I am surprised people don't talk more about the utter failure of the walled-garden WCS system in regards to the mysterious process of closing the gap. We finally have an old-school weekender open to all and what happens? Koreans laugh all over everyone else, exactly how they did since the beginning. Yes, Serral is an anomaly and his ability to stand up to Koreans is great (kinda sucks he had to run into Stats before the finals), but in general, tournaments like this prove that WCS competition is still a complete farce and people who love to pretend otherwise are delusional. "Stand up to koreans"? You are speaking of the WCS player who holds the best streak against korean players, ever(and the one who arguably had the most dominant year in the whole history of Sc2). That player is a product of the "walled garden failure", where he could grow from prospect to champion without being strangled by your army of b tier koreans. Locking regions was a huge success, it revitalized the foreign scene and reinstated better audience for the game. Speaking of ASUS Rog itself, korean players are expected to be stronger. I was actually pleasantly surprised to see WCS players beating top koreans in PvP and TvT, you have to take into consideration only one cross region ZvZ was played(Snute beat Armani) and that's the matchup where WCS players are on par with koreans(or even slightly above if the skill level is comparable). When WCS meta is ahead of GSL's in a certain matchup, you see skilled players like Neeb winning an important tournaments in Korea; at the moment, foreign Terran seem to be getting better but they are still behind in skill if compared to the korean ones while the current Protoss meta in Korea is light years ahead of WCS one so that foreigners of every race are having significant problems against P, and it clearly showed. Now that the WCS scene's survival is granted while korean scene's influx of new players has stopped, it could make sense to remove the region lock or alter the way it works now in a way that should allow both scenes to grow together; in the worst case scenario that migh cause a migration to Wc3 reforged, but I am confident WCS scene is now robust enough to survive the initial burst a merge would inevitably cause. Code S, however, should be made easier to play in for players who not reside in Korea. | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary485 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:00 Z3nith wrote: Calling stasis wards imba shows you either didn't watch the game or fail to appreciate what Stats did. He micro'd two separate oracles and his adept harass all at the same time WHILE macroing to an incredible level back home. He is probably the only player with the mechanics capable of pulling that off. It is in no way low skill what Stats did, in fact I'd go so far as to say it is some of the highest level PvZ I've seen in a long time. Also if stasis wards are imba then so are widow mine drops, baneling drops, BC teleports and liberator harass which is clearly not the case. I appreciate multitasking, but I am sorry if i have an unpopular opinion that you and others might not like. Meaning i do not find such games entertaining at all, and find stasis wards one of the biggest bs the game has. It is not only imba, but unentertaining to watch. This game has way too much units and ablities designed to harass for my taste. And guess what, toss has most of them (Phoenix, Oracle, Adept). About widow mines, liberator, bc teleport I agree with you. Plus i would also include Swarm hosts, SH builds are also totally boring to watch. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7030 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:15 paddyz wrote: Stats repeating the same predictable plan? Same versatile opening. The same predictable plan that wins regardless of top level players having time to come up with a solution is infestor/broodlord which Serral showed again in this series. Game 3 Stats got 3 shield batteries at home and held Serrals all in. Game 4 he started a 3rd and won with a committed Immortal/Sentry push. Game 5 he won through feigning the same Immortal/Sentry push, pulling back with a lead after Serral cut drones, dealing with swarmhosts really well and making a great transition into carriers to win. If anything its Infestor/Broodlord that is the same predictable stuff that wins over and over regardless. I am pretty sure Stats knew of Infestor/Broodlord, had years of trying to find a way to deal with it, is one of if not the most qualified Protoss to deal with it and still can't. Game 2 serves as as clear an example as possible imo. Serral won game 2 vs Stats because his harass was way better than that of Stats. Stats lost multiple warpprisms and zealot rounds without achieving much while Serral's ling/bling/hydra runbys repeatedly killed bases, units and probes. This lead ultimately to Stats demise. Serral even took a base on Stats' half of the map, outmining and outbanking him #2mutalisksthatwonthegame EDIT: I agree with the opinions on getting rid of region-locks. But they would have to shorten GSL's from 3 month to 3 weeks to open it up for foreigners. And maybe lenghten WCS stops to 2 weekends per event? But probably not efficient from a finacial point of view | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On August 05 2019 21:17 kajtarp wrote: I appreciate multitasking, but I am sorry if i have an unpopular opinion that you and others might not like. Meaning i do not find such games entertaining at all, and find stasis wards one of the biggest bs the game has. It is not only imba, but unentertaining to watch. This game has way too much units and ablities designed to harass for my taste. And guess what, toss has most of them (Phoenix, Oracle, Adept). About widow mines, liberator, bc teleport I agree with you. Plus i would also include Swarm hosts, SH builds are also totally boring to watch. While I absolutely don't agree with you I can respect if that's how you feel about all harassment based units. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On August 05 2019 20:55 Z3nith wrote: Well Maru probably but I was thinking more in terms of Protoss players. Classic is a maybe but I feel like his micro isn't all that amazing honestly. Isn't Classic da man who did show us 2 WP micro harass for the first time? I have my money on Classic being able to do this properly. Be this still KeSPA time I would add herO to the list. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 05 2019 22:05 deacon.frost wrote: Isn't Classic da man who did show us 2 WP micro harass for the first time? I have my money on Classic being able to do this properly. Be this still KeSPA time I would add herO to the list. PartinG and the micro he had in his prime. | ||
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DSh1
292 Posts
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toothpaste
2 Posts
On August 05 2019 18:52 Mudbuddha1 wrote: writer sounds like a serral fanboy who is salty, haha nonetheless great writing about stats winning Was wondering if anyone was gonna point that out. They somehow made it more about Serral than Stats, but I guess that's become pretty standard in these articles. DDoS aside this was a great tournament! | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On August 05 2019 22:52 toothpaste wrote: Was wondering if anyone was gonna point that out. They somehow made it more about Serral than Stats, but I guess that's become pretty standard in these articles. DDoS aside this was a great tournament! The whole tournament basically took place because of Serral. | ||
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toothpaste
2 Posts
On August 05 2019 22:55 Xain0n wrote: The whole tournament basically took place because of Serral. Yeah, wasn't there already another article dedicated to explaining that? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
I like it a lot and how it flows, but then again I liked his 4 stalker WP opener that he used at Katowice and soO adjusted for it well even within the confines of the tournament. Great tournament in basically all aspects, good stuff. | ||
SamirDuran
Philippines895 Posts
On August 05 2019 23:05 Wombat_NI wrote: I wonder if Stats overplayed his hand with this build of his. It looks strong and versatile as hell, but with bigger tournaments coming up he’s really exposed it to study. I like it a lot and how it flows, but then again I liked his 4 stalker WP opener that he used at Katowice and soO adjusted for it well even within the confines of the tournament. Great tournament in basically all aspects, good stuff. Maybe by the time the zergs adjusted to his style, he already come up with another variation of his build. I think he is not like parting who abused his soul train to be destroyed by soo. He is good enough to know that Zs will come up with a plan to kill him. Or study how soO did it in Katowice. | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
On the verge of crumbling against the roach/ravenger agression, and this boss sends out 3 carriers to snipe a base. Now I've seen it all. | ||
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Kitai
United States880 Posts
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bestiszest
France103 Posts
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leublix
493 Posts
On August 06 2019 05:56 bestiszest wrote: I hope all the people talking about the phoenix 3 oracles build realize it was shown in HSC and used by other protoss players as well... Everyone is aware of that, it's about the follow up and the continued use of the oracles after that. Even in GSL season 1 Classic used the phoenix, 3 oracles opener quite often but the way he played it was quite different. Stats turned it into a flexible good-against-everything macro build. | ||
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