The previous season's runner-up Classic continued his march toward another championship opportunity, advancing in first place from his 'hand-picked' RO16 group. The race to second place ended up being won by Hurricane, whose reached his first Code S top-eight ever with victories over FanTaSy and RagnaroK.
Though the group began with RagnaroK taking a game off Classic after defending against one of his deadly early-mid game attacks, that ended up being the extent of Classic's troubles. Early Adept harassment allowed Classic to snowball to routine wins in games two and three, setting up a winners match with Hurricane. There, a pair of proxies—Stargate and Robo—saw Classic advance to the quarterfinals with a quick 2-0.
Hurricane was able to fight his way through in second place, first defeating FanTaSy by pummeling his attempts to play 3-CC strategies with decisive and brazen attacks. Though Hurricane lost the winners match to Classic, he secured his RO8 spot with a quick 2-0 of RagnaroK in the decider match.
The highlight match of the night went to the two eliminated players, with RagnaroK and FanTaSy giving Thunderbird its first Code S showing in a closely contested Zerg vs Mech game.
Group B is next up in the RO16, with GuMiho, PartinG, Dear, and soO playing on Saturday, May 25 4:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)
On May 23 2019 03:45 StabiloBoss20 wrote: really thought RagnaroK would move on to the play offs. Another unnecessary all in... like in season 1. hopefully he fix that for S3.
tough to stay mentally strong after losing to immortal pushes. not saying they're OP, but holding immortal/gateway attacks as zerg is stressful. you don't feel there's a defender's advantage due to warpins, there's not much positional advantage either due to force fields, and cutting drones is more of an absolute necessity than a safety feature. it's kind of like losing to the biomine parade back in HotS ZvT - when you can't hold the push you feel like you're straight up the lesser player and you need to do something aggressive or weird to take maps
On May 23 2019 03:45 StabiloBoss20 wrote: really thought RagnaroK would move on to the play offs. Another unnecessary all in... like in season 1. hopefully he fix that for S3.
tough to stay mentally strong after losing to immortal pushes. not saying they're OP, but holding immortal/gateway attacks as zerg is stressful. you don't feel there's a defender's advantage due to warpins, there's not much positional advantage either due to force fields, and cutting drones is more of an absolute necessity than a safety feature. it's kind of like losing to the biomine parade back in HotS ZvT - when you can't hold the push you feel like you're straight up the lesser player and you need to do something aggressive or weird to take maps
Could be because he thought that pool cheese worked great against neeb.dude should ve nydused hurricane instead
Now I TOTALLY understand it’s better to have a balanced race distribution but the way Terran and Zerg band together to pick on/cry for nerfs on Toss CONSTANTLY instead of adapting and improving their own gameplay I’ve developed a bit of an attitude not unlike Michael Caine describing the Joker lately. “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
So potentially 8 Toss? Bring it on, I’ll sit back and gleefully watch the fireworks/tears. With popcorn. 😄 Pass the SALT.
Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
On May 23 2019 15:17 StarcraftSquall wrote: Honestly I’m a Protoss sympathizer myself.
Now I TOTALLY understand it’s better to have a balanced race distribution but the way Terran and Zerg band together to pick on/cry for nerfs on Toss CONSTANTLY instead of adapting and improving their own gameplay I’ve developed a bit of an attitude not unlike Michael Caine describing the Joker lately. “Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
So potentially 8 Toss? Bring it on, I’ll sit back and gleefully watch the fireworks/tears. With popcorn. 😄 Pass the SALT.
you were not around during the sad zealot times didnt you?
On May 23 2019 16:07 Veluvian wrote: Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
Judging by results, the current meta is Protoss shitting all over Zerg. How or why they win is secondary to actually winning.
On May 23 2019 16:07 Veluvian wrote: Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
Greeedy? Most of the time when the push comes zerg is equal or behind in workers, and sometimes even they are even in bases (not like 1 expansion up which is what it should be). So no, zergs are not being greeedy normally. In fact, usually if zergs do not die during th push then they are just behind in eco and die in the next 10 minutes or less.
On May 23 2019 16:07 Veluvian wrote: Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
Greeedy? Most of the time when the push comes zerg is equal or behind in workers, and sometimes even they are even in bases (not like 1 expansion up which is what it should be). So no, zergs are not being greeedy normally. In fact, usually if zergs do not die during th push then they are just behind in eco and die in the next 10 minutes or less.
That's the point, bro. If zerg has lesser amount of workers this means that the toss made some successful oracle teasing or two adepts early attack before the timing push. Because the zerg is a reactionary race in SC2 and it needs strong macro in order to reveal its true potential, this means that you got to be greedy in most of the scenarios. My thoughts are based on Tastosis analysis, what else I can say...
On May 23 2019 16:07 Veluvian wrote: Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
What you said makes no sense. If they are that strong in late game, shouldn't they play safe to secure the late game?
On May 23 2019 16:07 Veluvian wrote: Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
Greeedy? Most of the time when the push comes zerg is equal or behind in workers, and sometimes even they are even in bases (not like 1 expansion up which is what it should be). So no, zergs are not being greeedy normally. In fact, usually if zergs do not die during th push then they are just behind in eco and die in the next 10 minutes or less.
That's the point, bro. If zerg has lesser amount of workers this means that the toss made some successful oracle teasing or two adepts early attack before the timing push. Because the zerg is a reactionary race in SC2 and it needs strong macro in order to reveal its true potential, this means that you got to be greedy in most of the scenarios. My thoughts are based on Tastosis analysis, what else I can say...
I would really refrain from taking what they say as an accurate description of the current state of the game. They need to keep things hyped up and it's not good for them to be shitting on the current meta during a cast.
With 0 damage done to workers, with Zerg playing almost as greedy as possible, Protoss is at least even in workers/econ up to the 35th~ worker, Chronoboost is really good.
Now at some point Protoss stops making probes and instantly warps armies across the map, in a way that is basically undeniable, these armies are really strong and have a lot of microability because of the WP.
The nice thing, is that this happens so early in the game that a ton of Protosses can take advantage of it, so you end up with tournaments that are even more Protoss heavy than Zerg was during Broodlord infestor.
Though I think odds for 8/8 protoss is less than 50%, but greater than 10%.
On May 24 2019 00:06 terribleplayer1 wrote: With 0 damage done to workers, with Zerg playing almost as greedy as possible, Protoss is at least even in workers/econ up to the 35th~ worker, Chronoboost is really good.
Now at some point Protoss stops making probes and instantly warps armies across the map, in a way that is basically undeniable, these armies are really strong and have a lot of microability because of the WP.
The nice thing, is that this happens so early in the game that a ton of Protosses can take advantage of it, so you end up with tournaments that are even more Protoss heavy than Zerg was during Broodlord infestor.
Though I think odds for 8/8 protoss is less than 50%, but greater than 10%.
Nice fair analysis. Saying this as someone who is tired of all the balance whining about protoss. This is actually good analysis, not silly "hur dur PROTOSS!"
On May 23 2019 16:07 Veluvian wrote: Many zergs complain, but the current meta in PvZ is like this - zergs play greedy because in late game they become monsters on Code S level, they can switch in late game much faster and easier to different army compositions. That's why tosses want to finish them as quickly as they can. Nobody wants to play against Rogue after the 12th minute, if you play with toss, you'd do the same.
What you said makes no sense. If they are that strong in late game, shouldn't they play safe to secure the late game?
I don't really have a stand on the issue, but what I get from watching Zerg and Protoss streams are basically there is a fine line that ZvP is and a lot of the builds are so similar its hard to distinguish. And Protoss seem to have almost an infinite number of timings in the current meta.
The only issue I have is the meta seems to be very "gambly" for both the Zerg and Protoss. And how marginal the difference between guessing correctly or not is.
If Zerg plays "safe", cut drones then you are behind economically and Protoss kills you with a later timing attack. Sometimes building 1 or 2 more drones is the difference between surviving or not. Zerg's have to gamble to determine how they will fare depending on which timing they are facing.
Similarly, the Protoss has to gamble that the Zerg doesn't guess his build correctly, because if the Zerg does then he just fails his all in and loses the game.
looking at the bracket there is a realistic chance for 7 protoss + Special in the ro8. Im not saying it's likely, but i could bet on it if the odds were like 8-1
On May 24 2019 00:06 terribleplayer1 wrote: With 0 damage done to workers, with Zerg playing almost as greedy as possible, Protoss is at least even in workers/econ up to the 35th~ worker, Chronoboost is really good.
Now at some point Protoss stops making probes and instantly warps armies across the map, in a way that is basically undeniable, these armies are really strong and have a lot of microability because of the WP.
The nice thing, is that this happens so early in the game that a ton of Protosses can take advantage of it, so you end up with tournaments that are even more Protoss heavy than Zerg was during Broodlord infestor.
Though I think odds for 8/8 protoss is less than 50%, but greater than 10%.
the odd for 8/8 protoss is 0 because soO already qualified
EPT
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