Classic, GuMiho, Impact, Hurricane advance in Code S

On May 02 2019 02:35 BisuDagger wrote:
People may be disappointed two protoss advanced from Group C, but Hurricane played great and really earned his place in the next round.

On May 02 2019 05:44 Pandain wrote:
Any good games that were worth watching?

On May 02 2019 19:30 Drake wrote:


its always the same, group b both protoss fail "its all ok" but group c both advance "cry of outrage" its just the general protoss hate of the community

On May 03 2019 00:03 Xain0n wrote:


Hating Protoss is totally irrational, probably people are still haunted by Protosscraft in 2014(8 Premier victories out of 10 in the first tournaments of the year); on the other hand, I don't see people terrorized by the mindblowing 7/9 Terran titles in Code S("it's just Maru") in LoTV or veterans traumatized by GoMTvT when 20/32 players could easily be using our most beloved race.

Whereas the last Super Tournament had one unhealthy amount of Protoss in the ro8, people had already been complaining for months against the supposed imbalance of one race winning 2/14 Premier in 2018(despite losing many times in the finals).

On May 03 2019 00:03 Xain0n wrote:
Hating Protoss is totally irrational, probably people are still haunted by Protosscraft in 2014

On May 03 2019 07:08 DomeGetta wrote:


Nobody cares about 2014 - nobody cares about 2012...
Nobody cares when 1 player of a race that is under-represented is winning every tournament while all the stages leading up to the title are filled with another race.

Super tournament was just the first completely gross manifestation of what's been out there since they removed msc.
People are pissed because PvT has been a joke since that point - using Maru as a reason why it's not is an even bigger joke - the dude literally beat Protoss for a year with a style that was figured out by year end. Toss is 7-3 from bracket stage of GSL since the change - and in 3 out of the 4 finals that Maru won. No one is complaining about Terran being overpowered vs Protoss because you literally can't make a rational case for it.
Maru is overpowered vs everyone - period.

No matter how many times you parrot on about who won the tournaments - it doesn't change that fact.
A singular Terran player had success in 2018 - a multitude of Protoss players did.
When 10 / ro16 this season are Protoss and Dark wins his first Code S you'll make the same argument again.

On May 03 2019 00:03 Xain0n wrote:


Hating Protoss is totally irrational, probably people are still haunted by Protosscraft in 2014(8 Premier victories out of 10 in the first tournaments of the year); on the other hand, I don't see people terrorized by the mindblowing 7/9 Terran titles in Code S("it's just Maru") in LoTV or veterans traumatized by GoMTvT when 20/32 players could easily be using our most beloved race.

Whereas the last Super Tournament had one unhealthy amount of Protoss in the ro8, people had already been complaining for months against the supposed imbalance of one race winning 2/14 Premier in 2018(despite losing many times in the finals).

On May 03 2019 07:39 deacon.frost wrote:

I just don't get the fetishism around tournament winning. That's like the smallest statistical sample possible. but look at those winners!~#$!$% So what?
We have PvT imbalance in maps currently, some maps are broken really well(both ways, but more are Protoss friendly)
We had some Protoss heavy tournaments.
We had multiple Protoss 2nd places.
Unless some Ts or Zs prevent this we aim for 8/4/4 RO16 Code S. 50 % of the players will be protoss. Like no offense to anyone, but this doesn't look healthy no matter how you look at it. And the last Code S wasn't looking any healthier, we had 4 Zergs. I get that they pay for the ZvZ sins in WCS but still...

But hey, everything is fine, Maru was winning, Inno finally won something, soO finally won something. Everything is fine, no worries.

Winning finals is more about the person than the race they play(e.g. soO)

On May 03 2019 07:39 deacon.frost wrote:
We have PvT imbalance in maps currently, some maps are broken really well(both ways, but more are Protoss friendly)

On May 03 2019 07:45 NinjaNight wrote:


Someone who is heavily into BW told me that the protoss hate actually comes from BW and they just kept hating protoss in SC2.

On May 03 2019 14:10 StarcraftSquall wrote:
Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe it isn’t the race that’s imbalanced but the people playing the other race are just... better? Case in point: I don’t think there’s too many people who can push Classic in a Bo3+ match. So what if he’s Protoss? It’s great watching players like him show what their race is capable of at the top level.

As for Zest and what ails him the answer is pretty simple: he struggles horribly against Zerg. That was the case going into last night. What did he lose to? Yup, Zerg.

The whole imbalance argument just sounds ridiculous to me. It’s as simple as this: some people are just better at playing the game than others.

Also did a quick number crunch on everything so far this year: which non mirror matchup had the most lopsided win rate? Zerg are winning against Protoss more than any other race is against another map by map on the pro circuits.

(Also, who’s bright idea was it to take Year Zero out of GSL for a four player Cobalt map that no one will ever not veto? Seems like a waste of a map slot.)

The case in point: it’s usually not the race, it’s usually the player that’s making the difference.

On May 03 2019 17:47 Shuffleblade wrote:

I was never into pro BW, my aversion to protoss is probably because of the old classic deathball.

This could all be because I've played both zerg and terran but never protoss but the design around protoss just seems so full of BS to me.

They have the most varied arsenal of "race" bullshit while also generally having the strongest late game. If you don't die to their BS you'll die to the late game. Its been different reasons and metas throughout history but if you ask me the core problem for all races seems to be storm and to a lesser extent immortals. Protoss does have a lot of very hard counters, storm wreck tons of units, immortals (especially with prism) can destroy ten times their value against many units. Phoenix vs mutas anyone, is that microable? Disruptor vs tanks or lurkers? Tempest vs pretty much anything end game, especially liberators or vipers.

It doesn't feel the same in TvZ for example, sure terran usually has the most highest micro potential but unlike matchups vs P it feels like Z can do a lot more about it. Bio vs ultra you can surround the army, fungal the army. It feels like the actual army compositions often matter more vs P because they can hardcounter better and there feels like there is less the other races can do to overcome a compositional disadvantage than in other matchups. This is a sucha big problem because compositional disadvantage pretty much always arrive at late game. The micro needed to play vs storm is so different from protoss using it.

Just went on a tangent about my own thoughts, not saying it is like that but it feels like it for me.

PvT is in a bad place, we have seen the results recently, even from IEM and forward. The reason we are seeing mech is not because its been buffed and is better now, its because the chances of winning with it are higher than using bio. Simply put its still bad its just that all other options have gotten worse, terran is doing bad in the matchup and therefore have to innovate to have a chance to survive. Just like the previous crutch to win games (mid game allinish pushes) this will work for a while before P figure it out and then T will either lose harder or need to innovate more.

On May 03 2019 20:39 fronkschnonk wrote:
I think why protoss is often seen as imbalanced is because it feels so overwhelmingly strong when winning. It's units are very powerful which make it seem like imba. This perception is actually a testament to the high quality of overall race design of SC2 because it is wanted that the races feel very different while still being balanced.

That aside we have to wait for a little bit but if the current trend of mostly protosses in later rounds of big tournaments continues there might be an issue.