• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:19
CEST 09:19
KST 16:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters9[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism7Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?121Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 7/8 Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 GSTL Announcement Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Terran or Protoss BW General Discussion Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters ASL22 General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A BWCL Season 65 Announcement [ASL22] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Is Buying an MLBB Veri…
regacyesports
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8416 users

Code S RO8 Preview: Bunny vs Dark, Classic vs Rogue - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
45 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12133 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-27 15:29:29
March 27 2019 15:10 GMT
#41
On March 26 2019 20:48 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 20:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:01 Shuffleblade wrote:
On March 26 2019 18:48 Harris1st wrote:
On March 26 2019 11:52 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Dark and Classic to advance.

PS:

Once again the ro8 in GSL is the perfect litmus test for SC2 balance. The race distribution in GSL ro8 has been almost perfect since SC2 was released. An amazing fact, but a fact that the balance cry babies choose to continue to ignore.



GSL ist pretty much the worst test for balance. Ppl bring specifically designed builds to the table to snipe the one specific person. Nothing about this is balance.

Every weekender shows more about balance

Depends how you mean that weekenders shows more about balance, depends how you define balance.

Beastyqt had a really good discussion about balance (and if T is UP at the moment) based on the tournament results.

Basically it boiled down to how different races are good in different formats, more specifically terran is worse for weekender. The reasoning being that they are more dependant on harass to halt the zerg or protoss economy in TvZ and TvP. But at a weekender you play many players in a row in a short time, Ts builds once shown are often easy to defend well while the T has a very hard time to bring more than 4-5 builds to a tournament tops for each matchup. Its different for Z and P whom often isn't as reliant on getting harass damage in and can rely on more safe openings, the further the tournament goes along the harder it gets for T in those matchups when their builds have been shown.

GSL is about planning how to take down a specific person. None of GSL or weekender is really relevant to show ladder balance which are is when one person plays another person normally without knowing anything about that persons builds or playstyle.

But most important is the fact that GSL Ro8 is a small sample. Let me introduce you to an example - we have 28 Z, 2T and 2P in the Code S. For the fun of it - BoxeR, iloveoov, Bisu and Stork. And 28 random Zergs who got there because of some balance oopsie. We will get into RO8 these 4 giants and 4 random zergs. The ratio is off by 1(!!!!!!!!) player. 4/2/2. It looks almost perfect. While the whole balance is FUBAR. But hey, the RO8 looks fine, maybe we can tone down the Zerg a little bit, shall we?

I apologize to BW elitists for butchering nicknames of the players(if I did). I wanted to avoid the discussion of who's the best for the races in SC2 thus I used BW giants

Edit> If I throw NaDa into the example and change it to 27/3/2 with NaDa advancing we get 3/3/2. Best possible ratio. Who cares we needed 3 Bonjwas and 2 Dragons to get the perfect ratio

On March 26 2019 20:22 Akio wrote:
As much as I'm rooting for Classic, it will be tragic if he wins GSL and then has to forfeit his BlizzCon spot due to his age...

I believe they would allow him travel to the Blizzcon. Maybe Blizzard can step in if he wins GSL. You have to believe in the chin.
''

That the round of 32 of each GSL boiling down into the round of 16 then a round of 8 that consistently shows equal race distribution over the entirety of SC2's history is remarkable.

The sample size is big enough to allow discrepancies to have an influence (like the case you mentioned). But we are still getting ro8 equal distribution - how do you account for this? An extremely long run of flukes? No, odds are that it is because each race has an equal chance to make it to the ro8.

How can this be if the races are not or have not been balanced? A bizarre coincidence in player skill/ race strength-weakness consistently balancing out to allow for a ro8 equal distribution? Occam's razor argues against that theory and I do also.

Imagine a scenario where we start with equal numbers in race but ended up with consistently having say 5+ Terrans (for example) on average in the ro8. What conclusions could we draw from this? We of course would allow for some anomalies...but if it was consistently 5+ Terrans in the ro8 over the entirety of SC2 history, it would be pretty damning evidence of uneven balance favoring Terran.

Thus equal race distribution in the ro8 on average over the entirety of SC2 history is very good evidence of balance.

Q.E.D

The fuck dude, GSL 2014 Season 2 RO32
14/4/14 -> 4/1/3

And I'm not mentioning GomTvT

If you insist on the entire history of SC2 then check the history first, please

Edit> 2014 S1
16/3/13 -> 5/1/2
2014 S3
16/7/9 -> 3/2/3 which is as equal as we can get but RO32 suggest the game isn't as balanced as it should be(or were just Protoss players better?)

At the same time 2013 S3
12/11/9 (kinda equal) -> 4/2/2 (not equal)

QED?

Edit 2> We have a whole unbalanced year but hey... qed
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
EEk1TwEEk
Profile Joined June 2017
Russian Federation193 Posts
March 27 2019 19:12 GMT
#42
Rogue can only win gsl if he sacrifices a virgin. soO's curse was even more fearsome, but he smashed serral and here he is now - the iem champion!!!
This man suffers from a bad heart, but I have plenty of medicine.
Achamian
Profile Joined May 2017
82 Posts
March 27 2019 21:34 GMT
#43
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 27 2019 21:49 GMT
#44
On March 28 2019 06:34 Achamian wrote:
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic

Bless this man.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
March 27 2019 22:44 GMT
#45
On March 28 2019 06:49 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2019 06:34 Achamian wrote:
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic

Bless this man.


He that increaseth wisdom increaseth sorrow.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
March 28 2019 01:27 GMT
#46
On March 28 2019 00:10 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 20:48 AxiomBlurr wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:01 Shuffleblade wrote:
On March 26 2019 18:48 Harris1st wrote:
On March 26 2019 11:52 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Dark and Classic to advance.

PS:

Once again the ro8 in GSL is the perfect litmus test for SC2 balance. The race distribution in GSL ro8 has been almost perfect since SC2 was released. An amazing fact, but a fact that the balance cry babies choose to continue to ignore.



GSL ist pretty much the worst test for balance. Ppl bring specifically designed builds to the table to snipe the one specific person. Nothing about this is balance.

Every weekender shows more about balance

Depends how you mean that weekenders shows more about balance, depends how you define balance.

Beastyqt had a really good discussion about balance (and if T is UP at the moment) based on the tournament results.

Basically it boiled down to how different races are good in different formats, more specifically terran is worse for weekender. The reasoning being that they are more dependant on harass to halt the zerg or protoss economy in TvZ and TvP. But at a weekender you play many players in a row in a short time, Ts builds once shown are often easy to defend well while the T has a very hard time to bring more than 4-5 builds to a tournament tops for each matchup. Its different for Z and P whom often isn't as reliant on getting harass damage in and can rely on more safe openings, the further the tournament goes along the harder it gets for T in those matchups when their builds have been shown.

GSL is about planning how to take down a specific person. None of GSL or weekender is really relevant to show ladder balance which are is when one person plays another person normally without knowing anything about that persons builds or playstyle.

But most important is the fact that GSL Ro8 is a small sample. Let me introduce you to an example - we have 28 Z, 2T and 2P in the Code S. For the fun of it - BoxeR, iloveoov, Bisu and Stork. And 28 random Zergs who got there because of some balance oopsie. We will get into RO8 these 4 giants and 4 random zergs. The ratio is off by 1(!!!!!!!!) player. 4/2/2. It looks almost perfect. While the whole balance is FUBAR. But hey, the RO8 looks fine, maybe we can tone down the Zerg a little bit, shall we?

I apologize to BW elitists for butchering nicknames of the players(if I did). I wanted to avoid the discussion of who's the best for the races in SC2 thus I used BW giants

Edit> If I throw NaDa into the example and change it to 27/3/2 with NaDa advancing we get 3/3/2. Best possible ratio. Who cares we needed 3 Bonjwas and 2 Dragons to get the perfect ratio

On March 26 2019 20:22 Akio wrote:
As much as I'm rooting for Classic, it will be tragic if he wins GSL and then has to forfeit his BlizzCon spot due to his age...

I believe they would allow him travel to the Blizzcon. Maybe Blizzard can step in if he wins GSL. You have to believe in the chin.
''

That the round of 32 of each GSL boiling down into the round of 16 then a round of 8 that consistently shows equal race distribution over the entirety of SC2's history is remarkable.

The sample size is big enough to allow discrepancies to have an influence (like the case you mentioned). But we are still getting ro8 equal distribution - how do you account for this? An extremely long run of flukes? No, odds are that it is because each race has an equal chance to make it to the ro8.

How can this be if the races are not or have not been balanced? A bizarre coincidence in player skill/ race strength-weakness consistently balancing out to allow for a ro8 equal distribution? Occam's razor argues against that theory and I do also.

Imagine a scenario where we start with equal numbers in race but ended up with consistently having say 5+ Terrans (for example) on average in the ro8. What conclusions could we draw from this? We of course would allow for some anomalies...but if it was consistently 5+ Terrans in the ro8 over the entirety of SC2 history, it would be pretty damning evidence of uneven balance favoring Terran.

Thus equal race distribution in the ro8 on average over the entirety of SC2 history is very good evidence of balance.

Q.E.D

The fuck dude, GSL 2014 Season 2 RO32
14/4/14 -> 4/1/3

And I'm not mentioning GomTvT

If you insist on the entire history of SC2 then check the history first, please

Edit> 2014 S1
16/3/13 -> 5/1/2
2014 S3
16/7/9 -> 3/2/3 which is as equal as we can get but RO32 suggest the game isn't as balanced as it should be(or were just Protoss players better?)

At the same time 2013 S3
12/11/9 (kinda equal) -> 4/2/2 (not equal)

QED?

Edit 2> We have a whole unbalanced year but hey... qed


Correct - note 'on average.' It is remarkable!
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1538
Shuttle 1231
GuemChi 565
BeSt 243
Shine 230
Soma 89
Aegong 37
Killer 29
ZergMaN 25
Bale 17
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm152
ODPixel107
League of Legends
JimRising 535
Counter-Strike
ceh9399
Other Games
Happy196
Trikslyr19
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH285
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2164
League of Legends
• Rush1255
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
2h 41m
KCM Race Survival
2h 41m
OSC
15h 11m
Escore
1d 2h
IntoTheTV X SOOP
1d 3h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
3 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
3 days
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
GSL
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-08
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.