• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:07
CEST 09:07
KST 16:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak8DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview11herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)15Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4
Community News
[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)7Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14
StarCraft 2
General
DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Power Rank: October 2018 herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho
Tourneys
StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) DreamHack Dallas 2025 EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Cwal.gg not working [ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Artosis baned on twitch ?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal B [BSL20] RO20 Group Stage [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 21708 users

Code S RO8 Preview: Bunny vs Dark, Classic vs Rogue - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
45 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-27 15:29:29
March 27 2019 15:10 GMT
#41
On March 26 2019 20:48 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 20:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:01 Shuffleblade wrote:
On March 26 2019 18:48 Harris1st wrote:
On March 26 2019 11:52 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Dark and Classic to advance.

PS:

Once again the ro8 in GSL is the perfect litmus test for SC2 balance. The race distribution in GSL ro8 has been almost perfect since SC2 was released. An amazing fact, but a fact that the balance cry babies choose to continue to ignore.



GSL ist pretty much the worst test for balance. Ppl bring specifically designed builds to the table to snipe the one specific person. Nothing about this is balance.

Every weekender shows more about balance

Depends how you mean that weekenders shows more about balance, depends how you define balance.

Beastyqt had a really good discussion about balance (and if T is UP at the moment) based on the tournament results.

Basically it boiled down to how different races are good in different formats, more specifically terran is worse for weekender. The reasoning being that they are more dependant on harass to halt the zerg or protoss economy in TvZ and TvP. But at a weekender you play many players in a row in a short time, Ts builds once shown are often easy to defend well while the T has a very hard time to bring more than 4-5 builds to a tournament tops for each matchup. Its different for Z and P whom often isn't as reliant on getting harass damage in and can rely on more safe openings, the further the tournament goes along the harder it gets for T in those matchups when their builds have been shown.

GSL is about planning how to take down a specific person. None of GSL or weekender is really relevant to show ladder balance which are is when one person plays another person normally without knowing anything about that persons builds or playstyle.

But most important is the fact that GSL Ro8 is a small sample. Let me introduce you to an example - we have 28 Z, 2T and 2P in the Code S. For the fun of it - BoxeR, iloveoov, Bisu and Stork. And 28 random Zergs who got there because of some balance oopsie. We will get into RO8 these 4 giants and 4 random zergs. The ratio is off by 1(!!!!!!!!) player. 4/2/2. It looks almost perfect. While the whole balance is FUBAR. But hey, the RO8 looks fine, maybe we can tone down the Zerg a little bit, shall we?

I apologize to BW elitists for butchering nicknames of the players(if I did). I wanted to avoid the discussion of who's the best for the races in SC2 thus I used BW giants

Edit> If I throw NaDa into the example and change it to 27/3/2 with NaDa advancing we get 3/3/2. Best possible ratio. Who cares we needed 3 Bonjwas and 2 Dragons to get the perfect ratio

On March 26 2019 20:22 Akio wrote:
As much as I'm rooting for Classic, it will be tragic if he wins GSL and then has to forfeit his BlizzCon spot due to his age...

I believe they would allow him travel to the Blizzcon. Maybe Blizzard can step in if he wins GSL. You have to believe in the chin.
''

That the round of 32 of each GSL boiling down into the round of 16 then a round of 8 that consistently shows equal race distribution over the entirety of SC2's history is remarkable.

The sample size is big enough to allow discrepancies to have an influence (like the case you mentioned). But we are still getting ro8 equal distribution - how do you account for this? An extremely long run of flukes? No, odds are that it is because each race has an equal chance to make it to the ro8.

How can this be if the races are not or have not been balanced? A bizarre coincidence in player skill/ race strength-weakness consistently balancing out to allow for a ro8 equal distribution? Occam's razor argues against that theory and I do also.

Imagine a scenario where we start with equal numbers in race but ended up with consistently having say 5+ Terrans (for example) on average in the ro8. What conclusions could we draw from this? We of course would allow for some anomalies...but if it was consistently 5+ Terrans in the ro8 over the entirety of SC2 history, it would be pretty damning evidence of uneven balance favoring Terran.

Thus equal race distribution in the ro8 on average over the entirety of SC2 history is very good evidence of balance.

Q.E.D

The fuck dude, GSL 2014 Season 2 RO32
14/4/14 -> 4/1/3

And I'm not mentioning GomTvT

If you insist on the entire history of SC2 then check the history first, please

Edit> 2014 S1
16/3/13 -> 5/1/2
2014 S3
16/7/9 -> 3/2/3 which is as equal as we can get but RO32 suggest the game isn't as balanced as it should be(or were just Protoss players better?)

At the same time 2013 S3
12/11/9 (kinda equal) -> 4/2/2 (not equal)

QED?

Edit 2> We have a whole unbalanced year but hey... qed
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
EEk1TwEEk
Profile Joined June 2017
Russian Federation142 Posts
March 27 2019 19:12 GMT
#42
Rogue can only win gsl if he sacrifices a virgin. soO's curse was even more fearsome, but he smashed serral and here he is now - the iem champion!!!
This man suffers from a bad heart, but I have plenty of medicine.
Achamian
Profile Joined May 2017
82 Posts
March 27 2019 21:34 GMT
#43
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 27 2019 21:49 GMT
#44
On March 28 2019 06:34 Achamian wrote:
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic

Bless this man.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
March 27 2019 22:44 GMT
#45
On March 28 2019 06:49 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2019 06:34 Achamian wrote:
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic

Bless this man.


He that increaseth wisdom increaseth sorrow.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
March 28 2019 01:27 GMT
#46
On March 28 2019 00:10 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 20:48 AxiomBlurr wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:01 Shuffleblade wrote:
On March 26 2019 18:48 Harris1st wrote:
On March 26 2019 11:52 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Dark and Classic to advance.

PS:

Once again the ro8 in GSL is the perfect litmus test for SC2 balance. The race distribution in GSL ro8 has been almost perfect since SC2 was released. An amazing fact, but a fact that the balance cry babies choose to continue to ignore.



GSL ist pretty much the worst test for balance. Ppl bring specifically designed builds to the table to snipe the one specific person. Nothing about this is balance.

Every weekender shows more about balance

Depends how you mean that weekenders shows more about balance, depends how you define balance.

Beastyqt had a really good discussion about balance (and if T is UP at the moment) based on the tournament results.

Basically it boiled down to how different races are good in different formats, more specifically terran is worse for weekender. The reasoning being that they are more dependant on harass to halt the zerg or protoss economy in TvZ and TvP. But at a weekender you play many players in a row in a short time, Ts builds once shown are often easy to defend well while the T has a very hard time to bring more than 4-5 builds to a tournament tops for each matchup. Its different for Z and P whom often isn't as reliant on getting harass damage in and can rely on more safe openings, the further the tournament goes along the harder it gets for T in those matchups when their builds have been shown.

GSL is about planning how to take down a specific person. None of GSL or weekender is really relevant to show ladder balance which are is when one person plays another person normally without knowing anything about that persons builds or playstyle.

But most important is the fact that GSL Ro8 is a small sample. Let me introduce you to an example - we have 28 Z, 2T and 2P in the Code S. For the fun of it - BoxeR, iloveoov, Bisu and Stork. And 28 random Zergs who got there because of some balance oopsie. We will get into RO8 these 4 giants and 4 random zergs. The ratio is off by 1(!!!!!!!!) player. 4/2/2. It looks almost perfect. While the whole balance is FUBAR. But hey, the RO8 looks fine, maybe we can tone down the Zerg a little bit, shall we?

I apologize to BW elitists for butchering nicknames of the players(if I did). I wanted to avoid the discussion of who's the best for the races in SC2 thus I used BW giants

Edit> If I throw NaDa into the example and change it to 27/3/2 with NaDa advancing we get 3/3/2. Best possible ratio. Who cares we needed 3 Bonjwas and 2 Dragons to get the perfect ratio

On March 26 2019 20:22 Akio wrote:
As much as I'm rooting for Classic, it will be tragic if he wins GSL and then has to forfeit his BlizzCon spot due to his age...

I believe they would allow him travel to the Blizzcon. Maybe Blizzard can step in if he wins GSL. You have to believe in the chin.
''

That the round of 32 of each GSL boiling down into the round of 16 then a round of 8 that consistently shows equal race distribution over the entirety of SC2's history is remarkable.

The sample size is big enough to allow discrepancies to have an influence (like the case you mentioned). But we are still getting ro8 equal distribution - how do you account for this? An extremely long run of flukes? No, odds are that it is because each race has an equal chance to make it to the ro8.

How can this be if the races are not or have not been balanced? A bizarre coincidence in player skill/ race strength-weakness consistently balancing out to allow for a ro8 equal distribution? Occam's razor argues against that theory and I do also.

Imagine a scenario where we start with equal numbers in race but ended up with consistently having say 5+ Terrans (for example) on average in the ro8. What conclusions could we draw from this? We of course would allow for some anomalies...but if it was consistently 5+ Terrans in the ro8 over the entirety of SC2 history, it would be pretty damning evidence of uneven balance favoring Terran.

Thus equal race distribution in the ro8 on average over the entirety of SC2 history is very good evidence of balance.

Q.E.D

The fuck dude, GSL 2014 Season 2 RO32
14/4/14 -> 4/1/3

And I'm not mentioning GomTvT

If you insist on the entire history of SC2 then check the history first, please

Edit> 2014 S1
16/3/13 -> 5/1/2
2014 S3
16/7/9 -> 3/2/3 which is as equal as we can get but RO32 suggest the game isn't as balanced as it should be(or were just Protoss players better?)

At the same time 2013 S3
12/11/9 (kinda equal) -> 4/2/2 (not equal)

QED?

Edit 2> We have a whole unbalanced year but hey... qed


Correct - note 'on average.' It is remarkable!
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
00:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #15
Demi vs TBDLIVE!
Liquipedia
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 GSL S2 - Qualifiers
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 280
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 25112
actioN 517
Leta 435
Shinee 32
scan(afreeca) 30
Killer 24
sSak 11
soO 4
Dota 2
ODPixel557
Fuzer 176
NeuroSwarm80
League of Legends
JimRising 778
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K946
shoxiejesuss94
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor163
Other Games
summit1g8522
C9.Mang0605
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH278
• practicex 51
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota288
League of Legends
• Lourlo1358
• Stunt382
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
2h 53m
Road to EWC
7h 53m
Replay Cast
1d 2h
SC Evo League
1d 4h
Road to EWC
1d 7h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 21h
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
SOOP
4 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
GSL Code S
6 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.