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Code S RO8 Preview: Bunny vs Dark, Classic vs Rogue - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
45 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-03-27 15:29:29
March 27 2019 15:10 GMT
#41
On March 26 2019 20:48 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 20:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:01 Shuffleblade wrote:
On March 26 2019 18:48 Harris1st wrote:
On March 26 2019 11:52 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Dark and Classic to advance.

PS:

Once again the ro8 in GSL is the perfect litmus test for SC2 balance. The race distribution in GSL ro8 has been almost perfect since SC2 was released. An amazing fact, but a fact that the balance cry babies choose to continue to ignore.



GSL ist pretty much the worst test for balance. Ppl bring specifically designed builds to the table to snipe the one specific person. Nothing about this is balance.

Every weekender shows more about balance

Depends how you mean that weekenders shows more about balance, depends how you define balance.

Beastyqt had a really good discussion about balance (and if T is UP at the moment) based on the tournament results.

Basically it boiled down to how different races are good in different formats, more specifically terran is worse for weekender. The reasoning being that they are more dependant on harass to halt the zerg or protoss economy in TvZ and TvP. But at a weekender you play many players in a row in a short time, Ts builds once shown are often easy to defend well while the T has a very hard time to bring more than 4-5 builds to a tournament tops for each matchup. Its different for Z and P whom often isn't as reliant on getting harass damage in and can rely on more safe openings, the further the tournament goes along the harder it gets for T in those matchups when their builds have been shown.

GSL is about planning how to take down a specific person. None of GSL or weekender is really relevant to show ladder balance which are is when one person plays another person normally without knowing anything about that persons builds or playstyle.

But most important is the fact that GSL Ro8 is a small sample. Let me introduce you to an example - we have 28 Z, 2T and 2P in the Code S. For the fun of it - BoxeR, iloveoov, Bisu and Stork. And 28 random Zergs who got there because of some balance oopsie. We will get into RO8 these 4 giants and 4 random zergs. The ratio is off by 1(!!!!!!!!) player. 4/2/2. It looks almost perfect. While the whole balance is FUBAR. But hey, the RO8 looks fine, maybe we can tone down the Zerg a little bit, shall we?

I apologize to BW elitists for butchering nicknames of the players(if I did). I wanted to avoid the discussion of who's the best for the races in SC2 thus I used BW giants

Edit> If I throw NaDa into the example and change it to 27/3/2 with NaDa advancing we get 3/3/2. Best possible ratio. Who cares we needed 3 Bonjwas and 2 Dragons to get the perfect ratio

On March 26 2019 20:22 Akio wrote:
As much as I'm rooting for Classic, it will be tragic if he wins GSL and then has to forfeit his BlizzCon spot due to his age...

I believe they would allow him travel to the Blizzcon. Maybe Blizzard can step in if he wins GSL. You have to believe in the chin.
''

That the round of 32 of each GSL boiling down into the round of 16 then a round of 8 that consistently shows equal race distribution over the entirety of SC2's history is remarkable.

The sample size is big enough to allow discrepancies to have an influence (like the case you mentioned). But we are still getting ro8 equal distribution - how do you account for this? An extremely long run of flukes? No, odds are that it is because each race has an equal chance to make it to the ro8.

How can this be if the races are not or have not been balanced? A bizarre coincidence in player skill/ race strength-weakness consistently balancing out to allow for a ro8 equal distribution? Occam's razor argues against that theory and I do also.

Imagine a scenario where we start with equal numbers in race but ended up with consistently having say 5+ Terrans (for example) on average in the ro8. What conclusions could we draw from this? We of course would allow for some anomalies...but if it was consistently 5+ Terrans in the ro8 over the entirety of SC2 history, it would be pretty damning evidence of uneven balance favoring Terran.

Thus equal race distribution in the ro8 on average over the entirety of SC2 history is very good evidence of balance.

Q.E.D

The fuck dude, GSL 2014 Season 2 RO32
14/4/14 -> 4/1/3

And I'm not mentioning GomTvT

If you insist on the entire history of SC2 then check the history first, please

Edit> 2014 S1
16/3/13 -> 5/1/2
2014 S3
16/7/9 -> 3/2/3 which is as equal as we can get but RO32 suggest the game isn't as balanced as it should be(or were just Protoss players better?)

At the same time 2013 S3
12/11/9 (kinda equal) -> 4/2/2 (not equal)

QED?

Edit 2> We have a whole unbalanced year but hey... qed
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
EEk1TwEEk
Profile Joined June 2017
Russian Federation192 Posts
March 27 2019 19:12 GMT
#42
Rogue can only win gsl if he sacrifices a virgin. soO's curse was even more fearsome, but he smashed serral and here he is now - the iem champion!!!
This man suffers from a bad heart, but I have plenty of medicine.
Achamian
Profile Joined May 2017
82 Posts
March 27 2019 21:34 GMT
#43
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
March 27 2019 21:49 GMT
#44
On March 28 2019 06:34 Achamian wrote:
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic

Bless this man.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
March 27 2019 22:44 GMT
#45
On March 28 2019 06:49 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 28 2019 06:34 Achamian wrote:
This is so predictable.
Dark 3-1 Bunny
Rogue 3-2 Classic

Bless this man.


He that increaseth wisdom increaseth sorrow.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
AxiomBlurr
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
786 Posts
March 28 2019 01:27 GMT
#46
On March 28 2019 00:10 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2019 20:48 AxiomBlurr wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:28 deacon.frost wrote:
On March 26 2019 20:01 Shuffleblade wrote:
On March 26 2019 18:48 Harris1st wrote:
On March 26 2019 11:52 AxiomBlurr wrote:
Dark and Classic to advance.

PS:

Once again the ro8 in GSL is the perfect litmus test for SC2 balance. The race distribution in GSL ro8 has been almost perfect since SC2 was released. An amazing fact, but a fact that the balance cry babies choose to continue to ignore.



GSL ist pretty much the worst test for balance. Ppl bring specifically designed builds to the table to snipe the one specific person. Nothing about this is balance.

Every weekender shows more about balance

Depends how you mean that weekenders shows more about balance, depends how you define balance.

Beastyqt had a really good discussion about balance (and if T is UP at the moment) based on the tournament results.

Basically it boiled down to how different races are good in different formats, more specifically terran is worse for weekender. The reasoning being that they are more dependant on harass to halt the zerg or protoss economy in TvZ and TvP. But at a weekender you play many players in a row in a short time, Ts builds once shown are often easy to defend well while the T has a very hard time to bring more than 4-5 builds to a tournament tops for each matchup. Its different for Z and P whom often isn't as reliant on getting harass damage in and can rely on more safe openings, the further the tournament goes along the harder it gets for T in those matchups when their builds have been shown.

GSL is about planning how to take down a specific person. None of GSL or weekender is really relevant to show ladder balance which are is when one person plays another person normally without knowing anything about that persons builds or playstyle.

But most important is the fact that GSL Ro8 is a small sample. Let me introduce you to an example - we have 28 Z, 2T and 2P in the Code S. For the fun of it - BoxeR, iloveoov, Bisu and Stork. And 28 random Zergs who got there because of some balance oopsie. We will get into RO8 these 4 giants and 4 random zergs. The ratio is off by 1(!!!!!!!!) player. 4/2/2. It looks almost perfect. While the whole balance is FUBAR. But hey, the RO8 looks fine, maybe we can tone down the Zerg a little bit, shall we?

I apologize to BW elitists for butchering nicknames of the players(if I did). I wanted to avoid the discussion of who's the best for the races in SC2 thus I used BW giants

Edit> If I throw NaDa into the example and change it to 27/3/2 with NaDa advancing we get 3/3/2. Best possible ratio. Who cares we needed 3 Bonjwas and 2 Dragons to get the perfect ratio

On March 26 2019 20:22 Akio wrote:
As much as I'm rooting for Classic, it will be tragic if he wins GSL and then has to forfeit his BlizzCon spot due to his age...

I believe they would allow him travel to the Blizzcon. Maybe Blizzard can step in if he wins GSL. You have to believe in the chin.
''

That the round of 32 of each GSL boiling down into the round of 16 then a round of 8 that consistently shows equal race distribution over the entirety of SC2's history is remarkable.

The sample size is big enough to allow discrepancies to have an influence (like the case you mentioned). But we are still getting ro8 equal distribution - how do you account for this? An extremely long run of flukes? No, odds are that it is because each race has an equal chance to make it to the ro8.

How can this be if the races are not or have not been balanced? A bizarre coincidence in player skill/ race strength-weakness consistently balancing out to allow for a ro8 equal distribution? Occam's razor argues against that theory and I do also.

Imagine a scenario where we start with equal numbers in race but ended up with consistently having say 5+ Terrans (for example) on average in the ro8. What conclusions could we draw from this? We of course would allow for some anomalies...but if it was consistently 5+ Terrans in the ro8 over the entirety of SC2 history, it would be pretty damning evidence of uneven balance favoring Terran.

Thus equal race distribution in the ro8 on average over the entirety of SC2 history is very good evidence of balance.

Q.E.D

The fuck dude, GSL 2014 Season 2 RO32
14/4/14 -> 4/1/3

And I'm not mentioning GomTvT

If you insist on the entire history of SC2 then check the history first, please

Edit> 2014 S1
16/3/13 -> 5/1/2
2014 S3
16/7/9 -> 3/2/3 which is as equal as we can get but RO32 suggest the game isn't as balanced as it should be(or were just Protoss players better?)

At the same time 2013 S3
12/11/9 (kinda equal) -> 4/2/2 (not equal)

QED?

Edit 2> We have a whole unbalanced year but hey... qed


Correct - note 'on average.' It is remarkable!
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