It seems like Dreamhack is no longer hosting all WCS events this year.
Instead StarLadder will be hosting WCS Spring and Summer in Kiev.
The first of the two Kiev WCS events will be held from the 17th to the 19th of May, while the second one will take place from the 12th to the 14th of July.
WCS Fall wil be hosted by Dreamhack and will happen in Montreal from the 6th to the 8th of September.
Note: Finally, the full Circuit will be presented in 1080p resolution for the first time!
Residency Requirements
"We tested a rule change for players competing in Season 1 of GSL, restricting them from participating in Season 1 of WCS Challenger. Our goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players who would compete in the Korean tournament, but instead it caused all but one of the registered Circuit players to pull out of the GSL competition. That was not our intention, and we are rolling back this rule for Season 2 and 3, bringing the residency rules back to as they were in 2018."
On February 07 2019 03:16 Musicus wrote: "We tested a rule change for players competing in Season 1 of GSL, restricting them from participating in Season 1 of WCS Challenger. Our goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players who would compete in the Korean tournament, but instead it caused all but one of the registered Circuit players to pull out of the GSL competition. That was not our intention, and we are rolling back this rule for Season 2 and 3, bringing the residency rules back to as they were in 2018."
I don't understand this part. The goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players in GSL, but instead it limited the number of WCS players in GSL? Didn't it do what it set out to accomplish? So now they're reverting back to 2018 rules? I guess the Unity house survives.
Our goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players who would compete in the Korean tournament, but instead it caused all but one of the registered Circuit players to pull out of the GSL competition.
They realize something is wrong with the rules and change them. The change causes a reaction they didn't expect (for some reason), so they go back to the start. Which is to say, there's something wrong with the rules and Blizzard knows. Okay.
Also this is blatantly untrue. Scarlett was the only one who qualified but she was not the only one who tried.
On February 07 2019 03:27 Kalera wrote: Two events in Kiev? Hard to see this as anything but cost-cutting by Blizzard.
Well sure they might be trying to save money, as they did with WCS Winter as well, but if StarLadder is good enough for CS and Dota majors, it's good enough for WCS! Honestly I am a bit excited, every WCS event being a Dreamhack was getting boring.
On February 07 2019 03:27 Kalera wrote: Two events in Kiev? Hard to see this as anything but cost-cutting by Blizzard.
Well sure they might be trying to save money, as they did with WCS Winter as well, but if StarLadder is good enough for CS and Dota majors, it's good enough for WCS! Honestly I am a bit excited, every WCS event being a Dreamhack was getting boring.
Yeah, just the same production issues every time. Now finally we can look into some brand new eastern European issues instead.
Finally! Basically no news at all, except for the two WCS Circuit stops at Starladder. Anybody knows anything about them?
Really weak that they went back on their attempt at modifying region lock. At least now they have acknowledged the problem and are working at a solution which will be announced for next WCS season, right? :|
On February 07 2019 03:40 sneakyfox wrote: Finally! Basically no news at all, except for the two WCS Circuit stops at Starladder. Anybody knows anything about them?
Really weak that they went back on their attempt at modifying region lock. At least now they have acknowledged the problem and are working at a solution which will be announced for next WCS season, right? :|
Just end region lock completely already
Starladder has organized the European part for WESG since its inception IIRC.
Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Edit - i know they are now reverting the rule making it exactly like 2018, aka Koreans stick to GSL but foreigners can go there and play if they want etc. But original point stands.
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
And WCS Winter has no challenger, so she can play that too. She will only have a disadvantage for WCS Spring.
If she appears in WCS Spring Challenger, then it would be bullshit, but she won't.
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
This is what i mean she played in, the group stage she was invited to, this is not anything to do with WCS Challenger then or am i getting all confused? Is WCS Winter completely seperate to the rest?
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
This is what i mean she played in, the group stage she was invited to, this is not anything to do with WCS Challenger then or am i getting all confused? Is WCS Winter completely seperate to the rest?
It sounds to me like there may have been either jockeying by SLi to keep a busier schedule for their venue, or maybe Turtle isn't happy with their return on investment with WCS for their bigger events (Montreal isn't the most high-profile stop on the tour, so they may have the floor space to spare).
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
This is what i mean she played in, the group stage she was invited to, this is not anything to do with WCS Challenger then or am i getting all confused? Is WCS Winter completely seperate to the rest?
Yeah Winter has no challenger, she played the ladder qualifer. The first season of challgenger starts with WCS Spring. Players in GSL season 1 won't be allowed to play in WCS Spring challenger. So everybody but SortOf and Scarlett pulled out.
On February 07 2019 04:01 Circumstance wrote: It sounds to me like there may have been either jockeying by SLi to keep a busier schedule for their venue, or maybe Turtle isn't happy with their return on investment with WCS for their bigger events (Montreal isn't the most high-profile stop on the tour, so they may have the floor space to spare).
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
And WCS Winter has no challenger, so she can play that too. She will only have a disadvantage for WCS Spring.
If she appers in WCS Spring, then it would be bullshit, but she won't.
well she might she said this might be her last gsl so well see
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
And WCS Winter has no challenger, so she can play that too. She will only have a disadvantage for WCS Spring.
If she appers in WCS Spring, then it would be bullshit, but she won't.
well she might she said this might be her last gsl so well see
Just to clarify, I misstyped and meant WCS Spring Challenger in the last sentence. I expect her in the WCS Spring open bracket of course.
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
And WCS Winter has no challenger, so she can play that too. She will only have a disadvantage for WCS Spring.
If she appers in WCS Spring, then it would be bullshit, but she won't.
well she might she said this might be her last gsl so well see
Just to clarify, I misstyped and meant WCS Spring Challenger in the last sentence. I expect her in the WCS Spring open bracket of course.
ah ok makes since then was getting confused so she can basically play both gsl and wcs?
This is very good news honestly and starladder will be a good partner for WCS. Im just disappointed that both starladder events are in the same location, because its a bit of disadvantage for players not living around ukraine who want to compete in the open bracket. Also the issue TLO pointed out needs to be clarified.
In my opinion: The bad: 2 events in the same place. No event in USA. WCS Winter is meh. The good: Residency Requirements 1080 (lol) At least there is one Dreamhack in the NA...
On February 07 2019 03:40 sneakyfox wrote: Finally! Basically no news at all, except for the two WCS Circuit stops at Starladder. Anybody knows anything about them?
Really weak that they went back on their attempt at modifying region lock. At least now they have acknowledged the problem and are working at a solution which will be announced for next WCS season, right? :|
Just end region lock completely already
Starladder has organized the European part for WESG since its inception IIRC.
StarLadder is a respectable series of events in CSGO so I trust their production. It will be Kiev given the organization is based in Kiev. Not sure if everyone will be comfortable going there given the current political/military problem in the area.
Also, sad about the region lock announcement. There were other foreigners trying to qualify for GSL. Only Scarlett made it. It is not true that everyone pulled out. It is 2019 already. Let not have any restrictions anymore. Let open GSL and WCS for everyone. I'm not trying to be preaching here but a bit of inclusion will be nice for SC2.
On February 07 2019 04:01 Circumstance wrote: It sounds to me like there may have been either jockeying by SLi to keep a busier schedule for their venue, or maybe Turtle isn't happy with their return on investment with WCS for their bigger events (Montreal isn't the most high-profile stop on the tour, so they may have the floor space to spare).
So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
On February 07 2019 03:54 Pandemona wrote: Wait they said you couldn't compete in WCS challenger and go for GSL Season 1. So why is Scarlett playing in both?
Seems like she decided to skip challenger and will fight through the open bracket instead. Honestly she (and sortof) has guts. Didn't want to miss GSL and was willing to go the harder route in WCS for that.
And WCS Winter has no challenger, so she can play that too. She will only have a disadvantage for WCS Spring.
If she appers in WCS Spring, then it would be bullshit, but she won't.
well she might she said this might be her last gsl so well see
Just to clarify, I misstyped and meant WCS Spring Challenger in the last sentence. I expect her in the WCS Spring open bracket of course.
ah ok makes since then was getting confused so she can basically play both gsl and wcs?
yeah she can play everything apart from Spring Challlenger
Surprised that everyone is so negative in here. I for one am glad that this year will continue at all. Considering the state that Blizzard seems to be in right now, I was already preparing myself for a cancel of the rest of the year.
On February 07 2019 04:51 ThxSub~ wrote: Surprised that everyone is so negative in here. I for one am glad that this year will continue at all. Considering the state that Blizzard seems to be in right now, I was already preparing myself for a cancel of the rest of the year.
I feel you! We're back Tasteless!!! And I love your username
On February 07 2019 04:51 ThxSub~ wrote: Surprised that everyone is so negative in here. I for one am glad that this year will continue at all. Considering the state that Blizzard seems to be in right now, I was already preparing myself for a cancel of the rest of the year.
you and me both and iam getting the feeling this might be the last year with how long it took to make any announcement and idk just seems like the downfall has begun.
The region locking kerfuffle aside things seem more like a side-grade than a down-grade at least. Well we'll see how the Starladder production and event looks like.
On February 07 2019 04:51 ThxSub~ wrote: Surprised that everyone is so negative in here. I for one am glad that this year will continue at all. Considering the state that Blizzard seems to be in right now, I was already preparing myself for a cancel of the rest of the year.
Yeah I agree. I thought they would scale back considerably but looks very similar to 2018.
Well congrats Kiev for getting 2 events in the same year. To me however, that sounds pretty much like shooting yourself in the knee from a marketing perspective, and combined with the rollback of the residency requirements, the only conclusion I can arrive at is that Blizzard must have failed horribly with the planning and execution (so far) of this season, and that ain't a good sign at all...
On February 07 2019 05:54 BaneRiders wrote: Well congrats Kiev for getting 2 events in the same year. To me however, that sounds pretty much like shooting yourself in the knee from a marketing perspective, and combined with the rollback of the residency requirements, the only conclusion I can arrive at is that Blizzard must have failed horribly with the planning and execution (so far) of this season, and that ain't a good sign at all...
I'm just glad they didn't cancel WCS/GSL this year like they did with HotS.
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
On February 07 2019 04:51 ThxSub~ wrote: Surprised that everyone is so negative in here. I for one am glad that this year will continue at all. Considering the state that Blizzard seems to be in right now, I was already preparing myself for a cancel of the rest of the year.
If we say we are happy we are essentially telling blizzard that they can get away with cutting our program.
It's like taking a pay cut, we are a union and we can't let it happen
On February 07 2019 07:06 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I had hoped to make it out to Austin again some time for another Dreamhack, sad to see that one go.
Maybe Montreal though
DH actually moved their Austin event to Dallas this year because they needed a bigger convention center. I was hoping to do that one but it looks like Montreal is the only option and that's an over 5 hour direct flight. NA is too fat
Their stock is extreamly expensive, probably 5x the real value, even though it dropped significantly. They are managing the company like fools. This iteration of management just gives more reason to believe they are idiots, young people withoiut experiance, Im extreamly saddened by all this. These decisions are very poor. Blizzard, philosophy, rules, milestones. Integrity, does this ring any bells anything anywhere.Where are you going.
Sucks that Dreamhack Dallas won't be having a WCS Circuit event since I'll be in town then, but I hope it doesn't mean they'll completely exclude SC2 or any other Blizzard game.
I have to say I'm not sure how Starcraft only event will turn out, multi game even tend to be more hype, but I'm sure Star ladder will make good work on it. Also I hope they will allow Russian player to play online in those Kiev events if they can't go in persons.
Hmm, okay, okay... Kinda bummed Dreamhack won't be having StarCraft anymore but I wouldn't have been able to attend this year anyway, and 1080p streams and potentially better production sounds alright.
What a mess with Challenger, Winter, GSL and the player rules changes-but-oops-never-mind. Glad they seem to understand it was a huge mess that should never have happened, fingers crossed that they learn from it.
The year so far (I know it's barely been more than a month) has been filled with so much confusion over rules and new events, I'm getting the feeling it'll be a rollercoaster for the rest of it. Hopefully not, hopefully the only thing I get confused about is thinking Dreamhack = StarCraft or being awful at a new map or something trivial...
On February 07 2019 04:51 ThxSub~ wrote: Surprised that everyone is so negative in here. I for one am glad that this year will continue at all. Considering the state that Blizzard seems to be in right now, I was already preparing myself for a cancel of the rest of the year.
If we say we are happy we are essentially telling blizzard that they can get away with cutting our program.
It's like taking a pay cut, we are a union and we can't let it happen
Prizepool is the same? So they essentially took the cut else where to keep the money for the players.. so idk?
"We tested a rule change for players competing in Season 1 of GSL, restricting them from participating in Season 1 of WCS Challenger. Our goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players who would compete in the Korean tournament, but instead it caused all but one of the registered Circuit players to pull out of the GSL competition. That was not our intention, and we are rolling back this rule for Season 2 and 3, bringing the residency rules back to as they were in 2018."
So when something Blizzard does actually works it irritates them so much the just roll it back?
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
On February 07 2019 03:16 Musicus wrote: "We tested a rule change for players competing in Season 1 of GSL, restricting them from participating in Season 1 of WCS Challenger. Our goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players who would compete in the Korean tournament, but instead it caused all but one of the registered Circuit players to pull out of the GSL competition. That was not our intention, and we are rolling back this rule for Season 2 and 3, bringing the residency rules back to as they were in 2018."
I don't understand this part. The goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players in GSL, but instead it limited the number of WCS players in GSL? Didn't it do what it set out to accomplish? So now they're reverting back to 2018 rules? I guess the Unity house survives.
They worded it badly but their intention obviously was to make foreigners either fully commit to GSL or only play WCS. They didn't want almost everyone to choose only one of the two options.
On February 07 2019 03:16 Musicus wrote: "We tested a rule change for players competing in Season 1 of GSL, restricting them from participating in Season 1 of WCS Challenger. Our goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players who would compete in the Korean tournament, but instead it caused all but one of the registered Circuit players to pull out of the GSL competition. That was not our intention, and we are rolling back this rule for Season 2 and 3, bringing the residency rules back to as they were in 2018."
I don't understand this part. The goal was to limit the number of WCS Circuit players in GSL, but instead it limited the number of WCS players in GSL? Didn't it do what it set out to accomplish? So now they're reverting back to 2018 rules? I guess the Unity house survives.
They worded it badly but their intention obviously was to make foreigners either fully commit to GSL or only play WCS. They didn't want almost everyone to choose only one of the two options.
And what they expected? When you have to choose the easy way or the hard way not that many players will choose the hard way...
Always the same, most of the guys here complaining and nitpicking, so sad. A lot are even complaining about Kiev already even though the events didn´t even happen. Maybe just let them show what they got? I´m sure they can do a good job, and it´s not like WCS was always at four different locations. I´m quite happy with the announcement. The full season is safe and confirmed now, the prize pool did not change, there are as many events as last year, now everything is set for another great year of SC2. Please calm down a bit guys, lay back and try to enjoy your favourite esport. It´s really not that bad of a situation.
On February 07 2019 21:18 Rob-Zero wrote: Always the same, most of the guys here complaining and nitpicking, so sad. A lot are even complaining about Kiev already even though the events didn´t even happen. Maybe just let them show what they got? I´m sure they can do a good job, and it´s not like WCS was always at four different locations. I´m quite happy with the announcement. The full season is safe and confirmed now, the prize pool did not change, there are as many events as last year, now everything is set for another great year of SC2. Please calm down a bit guys, lay back and try to enjoy your favourite esport. It´s really not that bad of a situation.
People are complaining that for 2 WCS events they banned Russian males in fighting age. I didn't see any other complaints.
And yeah, people are complaining that foreigners can steal Korean money from S2 again. Yay?
On February 07 2019 21:18 Rob-Zero wrote: Always the same, most of the guys here complaining and nitpicking, so sad. A lot are even complaining about Kiev already even though the events didn´t even happen. Maybe just let them show what they got? I´m sure they can do a good job, and it´s not like WCS was always at four different locations. I´m quite happy with the announcement. The full season is safe and confirmed now, the prize pool did not change, there are as many events as last year, now everything is set for another great year of SC2. Please calm down a bit guys, lay back and try to enjoy your favourite esport. It´s really not that bad of a situation.
People are complaining that for 2 WCS events they banned Russian males in fighting age. I didn't see any other complaints.
And yeah, people are complaining that foreigners can steal Korean money from S2 again. Yay?
Yay. As i said, people are just complaining, so sad. Thanks for your support.
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
Are you sure? I think quite a few people would watch WCS if Maru plays there who otherwise wouldn't watch WCS. Global events always have higher viewership than foreign only events.
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
Are you sure? I think quite a few people would watch WCS if Maru plays there who otherwise wouldn't watch WCS. Global events always have higher viewership than foreign only events.
No I'm not sure. That's why I wrote "just a guess" ...
Probably WCS would get a few more views if Maru played. i just don't think the numbers would go nearly as high as ppl watching GSL because of Scarlett. And I think Maru stated that he doesn't want to travel much, same as Serral
Whatever, maybe it's for a complete different reason. What do I know It's gonna be a good year for SC 2
Great news, good they reverted the silly "get foreigners out of Korea" rule; getting rid of full region lock could not be expected, but not actually make it worse is at least something.
Kiev is not that far for me But considering I never even went to Katowichze...
Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Isn't most of the money from Blizzard and Mountain Dew? Both owned by American companies.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Sadly fuzic doesn't show the korean numbers for gsl if i am looking at it correctly, so one would have to wait till tomorrow to compare the numbers live. We can still look at vod numbers though. Let's compare twitch vods and youtube vods with afreecatv vods and the numbers paint a fairly clear picture. I am not sure if the korean casting can be found on youtube anywhere, but comparing the afreecatv vods to twitch vods is fairly reasonable i think. If there are other korean vods (on naver ? idk) which would lead to a different pov let me know.
People interested in the region lock stuff should watch the most recent pylon show. Artosis and Noregret are definitely most suited to talk about this. 1h35m15s if the timestamp doesn't work.
On February 08 2019 08:55 Matroid_Prime wrote: Excited for another year of games!
You make this sound like this is some lucky occurence or sth. In reality Starcraft is Blizzard's most popular esports title.
WCS finals were watched many many many times more than Overwatch and the rest. If no Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4 releases in the next few years we will get many more years of games of SC2.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Sadly fuzic doesn't show the korean numbers for gsl if i am looking at it correctly, so one would have to wait till tomorrow to compare the numbers live. We can still look at vod numbers though. Let's compare twitch vods and youtube vods with afreecatv vods and the numbers paint a fairly clear picture. I am not sure if the korean casting can be found on youtube anywhere, but comparing the afreecatv vods to twitch vods is fairly reasonable i think. If there are other korean vods (on naver ? idk) which would lead to a different pov let me know.
VODs? You use VODs when most foreign audience HAVE to watch VODs? C'mon
On February 08 2019 08:55 Matroid_Prime wrote: Excited for another year of games!
You make this sound like this is some lucky occurence or sth. In reality Starcraft is Blizzard's most popular esports title.
WCS finals were watched many many many times more than Overwatch and the rest. If no Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4 releases in the next few years we will get many more years of games of SC2.
based on Incontrol's comments and the panelists reactions to his comments I'd say Sc2 eSports in 2020 is not a sure thing. he starts at 55 minutes... if the time stamp does not work + Show Spoiler +
TL;DR paraphrasing Incontrol: "things look bright for SC2 but it is important to remember that our time with this game is not infinite"
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Sadly fuzic doesn't show the korean numbers for gsl if i am looking at it correctly, so one would have to wait till tomorrow to compare the numbers live. We can still look at vod numbers though. Let's compare twitch vods and youtube vods with afreecatv vods and the numbers paint a fairly clear picture. I am not sure if the korean casting can be found on youtube anywhere, but comparing the afreecatv vods to twitch vods is fairly reasonable i think. If there are other korean vods (on naver ? idk) which would lead to a different pov let me know.
VODs? You use VODs when most foreign audience HAVE to watch VODs? C'mon
I wouldn't have used vods if i had a source for the live viewers, i already said that i didn't find them on fuzic for the korean stream. Again, just look at the live numbers tomorrow. In general vod numbers are a good indicator though, completely neglecting that seems unreasonable.
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Sadly fuzic doesn't show the korean numbers for gsl if i am looking at it correctly, so one would have to wait till tomorrow to compare the numbers live. We can still look at vod numbers though. Let's compare twitch vods and youtube vods with afreecatv vods and the numbers paint a fairly clear picture. I am not sure if the korean casting can be found on youtube anywhere, but comparing the afreecatv vods to twitch vods is fairly reasonable i think. If there are other korean vods (on naver ? idk) which would lead to a different pov let me know.
VODs? You use VODs when most foreign audience HAVE to watch VODs? C'mon
I wouldn't have used vods if i had a source for the live viewers, i already said that i didn't find them on fuzic for the korean stream. Again, just look at the live numbers tomorrow. In general vod numbers are a good indicator though, completely neglecting that seems unreasonable.
VOD numbers are bad indicator if you are comparing a region who has the capability to watch live easily and regions who can't watch live easily. This isn't as easy as it sounds. If we had the numbers it would have been a different story but we don't have them, do we?
Edit>
On February 09 2019 02:36 Musicus wrote: People interested in the region lock stuff should watch the most recent pylon show. Artosis and Noregret are definitely most suited to talk about this. 1h35m15s if the timestamp doesn't work.
In one of the early episodes ARtosis have shown grudge and how he's still pissed off about WCS NA back then. I'm not gonna trust such person who just wants to see a revenge. NoRegret has money in foreigners in GSL. The only objective person I would listen to is OutOfControl.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Sadly fuzic doesn't show the korean numbers for gsl if i am looking at it correctly, so one would have to wait till tomorrow to compare the numbers live. We can still look at vod numbers though. Let's compare twitch vods and youtube vods with afreecatv vods and the numbers paint a fairly clear picture. I am not sure if the korean casting can be found on youtube anywhere, but comparing the afreecatv vods to twitch vods is fairly reasonable i think. If there are other korean vods (on naver ? idk) which would lead to a different pov let me know.
VODs? You use VODs when most foreign audience HAVE to watch VODs? C'mon
I wouldn't have used vods if i had a source for the live viewers, i already said that i didn't find them on fuzic for the korean stream. Again, just look at the live numbers tomorrow. In general vod numbers are a good indicator though, completely neglecting that seems unreasonable.
VOD numbers are bad indicator if you are comparing a region who has the capability to watch live easily and regions who can't watch live easily. This isn't as easy as it sounds. If we had the numbers it would have been a different story but we don't have them, do we?
Well i disagree that the comparison is bad even when you make up for your argument (which is true ofc, there will be relatively more live viewers from korea). Guess someone has to look at the afreeca viewers tomorrow, if i am awake at the time i will do it myself
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
Except its a pretty much universally accepted fact that Korean vs Foreigner are the highest viewed matches across the history of SC2, including the GSL, however viewership in all events dropped significantly during the "unregion-locked" period. So ya know, historical evidence gives credence to his opinion.
Not everything is "muh white man" and "orange man bad". Some things are just sad truths
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
Dude did you freaking watch 2013-14 Starcraft? Our head was on the chopping block and Starcraft had its worst years in term of viewership
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
Except its a pretty much universally accepted fact that Korean vs Foreigner are the highest viewed matches across the history of SC2, including the GSL, however viewership in all events dropped significantly during the "unregion-locked" period. So ya know, historical evidence gives credence to his opinion.
Not everything is "muh white man" and "orange man bad". Some things are just sad truths
universally accepted by whom? the most viewed Vod on youtube is the Maru vs Life finals. I didn't know one of them is a foreigner... Not everyone cares about this artifically created "foreigner vs korean" storyline and there's certainly no evidence that those matches get higher viewer numbers.
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
Dude did you freaking watch 2013-14 Starcraft? Our head was on the chopping block and Starcraft had its worst years in term of viewership
Is that just how you perceived it, or can you present some links to evidence? StarCraft II was always planned as a 2 expansion piece, and LotV hadn't even come out then. I don't see how it would be 'on the chopping block' from Blizzard's point of view (WCS prize funding from blizzard stayed the same between 2013 and 2015). Maybe you could argue third parties started losing interest in 2014~2015, but 2013 was the biggest year of third party 'premiere' tier tournaments.
On February 09 2019 00:07 Zzoram wrote: Foreigners can not steal Korean money, the money is only there because of foreigners. GSL viewership is mostly foreigners and the biggest hype is for foreigner vs Korean games. A foreigner ban would most likely hurt viewership and put the future of GSL in danger.
2 to 3 GSL spots taken by foreigners is more than worth it to keep having GSL.
This is a bold statement, can you prove it?
Sadly fuzic doesn't show the korean numbers for gsl if i am looking at it correctly, so one would have to wait till tomorrow to compare the numbers live. We can still look at vod numbers though. Let's compare twitch vods and youtube vods with afreecatv vods and the numbers paint a fairly clear picture. I am not sure if the korean casting can be found on youtube anywhere, but comparing the afreecatv vods to twitch vods is fairly reasonable i think. If there are other korean vods (on naver ? idk) which would lead to a different pov let me know.
VODs? You use VODs when most foreign audience HAVE to watch VODs? C'mon
I wouldn't have used vods if i had a source for the live viewers, i already said that i didn't find them on fuzic for the korean stream. Again, just look at the live numbers tomorrow. In general vod numbers are a good indicator though, completely neglecting that seems unreasonable.
VOD numbers are bad indicator if you are comparing a region who has the capability to watch live easily and regions who can't watch live easily. This isn't as easy as it sounds. If we had the numbers it would have been a different story but we don't have them, do we?
It peaked a little over 2.4k so far while the english stream was at 10.5k already, add to that the disparity in vod numbers and the picture is fairly clear.
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
Dude did you freaking watch 2013-14 Starcraft? Our head was on the chopping block and Starcraft had its worst years in term of viewership
Is that just how you perceived it, or can you present some links to evidence? StarCraft II was always planned as a 2 expansion piece, and LotV hadn't even come out then. I don't see how it would be 'on the chopping block' from Blizzard's point of view (WCS prize funding from blizzard stayed the same between 2013 and 2015). Maybe you could argue third parties started losing interest in 2014~2015, but 2013 was the biggest year of third party 'premiere' tier tournaments.
Well yes "choping block" isn't the good expression of course LOTV was always comming out, 2014-15 (not 13 your right) was the time when the dead game meme were at their apex, korean were winning everything we had bad viewership and tournament to almost empty crowd and we lost a bunch of tournament quite quickly. It's not to say that sc2 was about to die there but more thay it was clearly in a downward spiral and the WCS region lock is probably one of the thing that slowed this decline and even produce some growth. It hard to imagine SC2 still having a strong pro scene if it stayed the same as the HOTS era.
kick a foreigner out of GSL? it just select for WCS challenge or GSL. but foreigners chose WCS challenge instead GSL They still have opportunity for participate GSL but they doesn't it. but koreans have no chance to participate for WCS i think because of this esports can't be a sports
On February 09 2019 22:34 barcodeno1 wrote: kick a foreigner out of GSL? it just select for WCS challenge or GSL. but foreigners chose WCS challenge instead GSL They still have opportunity for participate GSL but they doesn't it. but koreans have no chance to participate for WCS i think because of this esports can't be a sports
It ain't a real sport when matches are predetermined. Lol at "seeding" in the entire sc2 scene whether it be amateur tournaments or. Nothing like trying to purposely make it so certain players are guaranteed to have the best chances of making it deep!
On February 09 2019 22:34 barcodeno1 wrote: kick a foreigner out of GSL? it just select for WCS challenge or GSL. but foreigners chose WCS challenge instead GSL They still have opportunity for participate GSL but they doesn't it. but koreans have no chance to participate for WCS i think because of this esports can't be a sports
It ain't a real sport when matches are predetermined. Lol at "seeding" in the entire sc2 scene whether it be amateur tournaments or. Nothing like trying to purposely make it so certain players are guaranteed to have the best chances of making it deep!
Seeding is a thing in many sports. Look at tennis. and even in football its not uncommon to have some seeding rules (amateurs vs pros in first rounds of cups for example).
On February 09 2019 22:34 barcodeno1 wrote: kick a foreigner out of GSL? it just select for WCS challenge or GSL. but foreigners chose WCS challenge instead GSL They still have opportunity for participate GSL but they doesn't it. but koreans have no chance to participate for WCS i think because of this esports can't be a sports
It ain't a real sport when matches are predetermined. Lol at "seeding" in the entire sc2 scene whether it be amateur tournaments or. Nothing like trying to purposely make it so certain players are guaranteed to have the best chances of making it deep!
On February 09 2019 22:34 barcodeno1 wrote: kick a foreigner out of GSL? it just select for WCS challenge or GSL. but foreigners chose WCS challenge instead GSL They still have opportunity for participate GSL but they doesn't it. but koreans have no chance to participate for WCS i think because of this esports can't be a sports
It ain't a real sport when matches are predetermined. Lol at "seeding" in the entire sc2 scene whether it be amateur tournaments or. Nothing like trying to purposely make it so certain players are guaranteed to have the best chances of making it deep!
"Real" sports use seeding too genius
then they are not "real" sports. He just defined that a real sport doesn't use seeding
poor scarlett needs to fight trouth open bracket instead of qualifing for first stop ... because of stupid rules ... well she should still be able to make it trough
On February 09 2019 22:34 barcodeno1 wrote: kick a foreigner out of GSL? it just select for WCS challenge or GSL. but foreigners chose WCS challenge instead GSL They still have opportunity for participate GSL but they doesn't it. but koreans have no chance to participate for WCS i think because of this esports can't be a sports
It ain't a real sport when matches are predetermined. Lol at "seeding" in the entire sc2 scene whether it be amateur tournaments or. Nothing like trying to purposely make it so certain players are guaranteed to have the best chances of making it deep!
so tennis isnt a real sport i guess ? or darts ? or ... (i can go on forever bro) seeding is bascily in every sport that is a multi player tournament structure especially if its 1 man teams
On February 07 2019 04:40 Charoisaur wrote: So koreans stealing foreign money is bad but foreigners stealing korean money is good? What's the difference between this region-lock and the WCS region-lock? That foreigners benefit from one and koreans benefit from the other but koreans aren't supposed to benefit from the system??
It sucks for the players but from a marketing point of view I can understand this decision. Foreigner in GSL will skyrocket viewernumbers for GSL but Koreans in WCS will not. I doubt many Koreans would watch WCS and most other ppl who would, watch it anyway. I don't have numbers to back this, just a guess.
This is a statement that I simply can not imagine an American ever making. It is pure conjecture and is... well to be honest it betrays your sub conscious bias that you think it's true. Maybe a Trump supporter would say this (feel obligated to call this out when I see it).
Scarlett is literally the most famous and popular foreigner in the history of Starcraft. That is why when she is in GSL, her group gets better views on average (assuming this even happens). If SortOf was in the GSL, do you think anyone would care? Why would I want to watch SortOf get rolled by Leenock and alive? You think that having Noregret in GSL skyrocketed viewer numbers?
No - no one cares. The only foreigner that boosts ratings is Scarlett because she is awesome. Everyone would prefer to see Bomber, MC, and partinG etc. than these foreigners that have never acheived anything in this game.
Now, you put any of the top 15 Koreans in WCS and the hype would be unreal. I know it's hard for you to imagine that many white people might not currently be watching the WCS (and instead only watch GSL), but it's true. Koreans aren't the only new viewers you would get from including Koreans in WCS.
User was temp banned for this post.
Wow that got really personal (and quite a bit racist) really fast and I'm not gonna dignify this with a response besides this.
One of the main WCS and Starcraft esports people, creative producer and senior esports manager Marc Olbertz was part of the mass lay offs yesterday at Activision Blizzard. Doesn't bode well for the future...
On February 14 2019 04:25 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: One of the main WCS and Starcraft esports people, creative producer and senior esports manager Marc Olbertz was part of the mass lay offs yesterday at Activision Blizzard. Doesn't bode well for the future...
Ouch, best of luck too him and everyone else. I think he was the "inside man" for a lot of the community people (like the pylon show guys), it's a big blow. I really hope we get through this year without any cancellation. I feel like this year will be the end for WCS-GSL, hard times ahead, but at least we got other like Take, Cheesadelphia and (someday) that chinese team league
EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/sxlonOn.jpg)
2019 WCS Winter/Americas
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/FrWQhMb.jpg)
