• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 00:51
CET 06:51
KST 14:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)1Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win2RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
Data analysis on 70 million replays 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together? [BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D) soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft What happened to TvZ on Retro?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
How to stay on top of macro? Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33 Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2144 users

2019 Season 1 Map Preview - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
24 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-20 16:56:11
January 20 2019 16:49 GMT
#21
On January 17 2019 05:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Also we have our usual drama about Blizzard breaking the maps--messing up the natural wall-in for King's Cove (source: https://imgur.com/a/TobPaAV), and worsening Cyber Forest's main (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/agnoiz/cyber_forest_a_mapmakers_opinion_about_the_main/)

I'm not gonna try to wall King's Cove like that (it's a lazy display anyway, using all gates just to demonstrate the size. the placement of which 3x3 building goes where matters)

With my walls, the same banelings cannot kill the pylon + the adept. And if banelings are used to kill the pylon, there is another pylon to power all the buildings and keep the wall sealed. Also note that even though the adept filling the gap can't defend the stargate, the rocks also need to be defended, so he's not completely wasted there. There's just a lot to defend so build orders will probably have to be adjusted. Personally I will play some 2gate FE openings but I think 1gate FE stargate can still get some wins too.

[image loading]

[image loading]

With both pylons down there, you'll have to build the twilight down there as well. It can be used as part of the wall in anticipation of the rocks breaking. Or it can be tucked in safely, as there's plenty of room.

For most ladder brackets, protoss players can safely anticipate zergs attempting heavy lings/bane early on. If you play carefully and defensively, then I think a lot of protoss can get easy wins, especially since there will be zergs feeling obligated to do this aggressive style when they aren't actually very good at it. The tricky thing will be when a zerg can successfully present himself as aggressive when he's actually playing very greedy. So ultimately I think protoss will want to start with a build that is safe against ling/bane aggression but then transition into a build with a strong timing or poke or harass in order to keep greedy zergs in check.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
January 20 2019 17:30 GMT
#22
On January 21 2019 01:49 NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 17 2019 05:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Also we have our usual drama about Blizzard breaking the maps--messing up the natural wall-in for King's Cove (source: https://imgur.com/a/TobPaAV), and worsening Cyber Forest's main (source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/agnoiz/cyber_forest_a_mapmakers_opinion_about_the_main/)

I'm not gonna try to wall King's Cove like that (it's a lazy display anyway, using all gates just to demonstrate the size. the placement of which 3x3 building goes where matters)

With my walls, the same banelings cannot kill the pylon + the adept. And if banelings are used to kill the pylon, there is another pylon to power all the buildings and keep the wall sealed. Also note that even though the adept filling the gap can't defend the stargate, the rocks also need to be defended, so he's not completely wasted there. There's just a lot to defend so build orders will probably have to be adjusted. Personally I will play some 2gate FE openings but I think 1gate FE stargate can still get some wins too.

[image loading]

[image loading]

With both pylons down there, you'll have to build the twilight down there as well. It can be used as part of the wall in anticipation of the rocks breaking. Or it can be tucked in safely, as there's plenty of room.

For most ladder brackets, protoss players can safely anticipate zergs attempting heavy lings/bane early on. If you play carefully and defensively, then I think a lot of protoss can get easy wins, especially since there will be zergs feeling obligated to do this aggressive style when they aren't actually very good at it. The tricky thing will be when a zerg can successfully present himself as aggressive when he's actually playing very greedy. So ultimately I think protoss will want to start with a build that is safe against ling/bane aggression but then transition into a build with a strong timing or poke or harass in order to keep greedy zergs in check.


There are certainly a lot of interesting things you can do as Protoss player to try to handle the weaknesses caused by a wide natural choke (with rocks as a bonus) and the resulting strenghtened early ling attacks, baneling busts and ravager attacks. This wall you have here is quite cool.

However (even without speaking about the balance impact) the way it limits Protoss options isn't the most compelling thing as a viewer. Darkness Sanctuary also had the wide nat. choke, and it didn't have a positive impact there.
Ben...
Profile Joined January 2011
Canada3485 Posts
January 20 2019 19:09 GMT
#23
Wow I didn't realize that the possible walling for the natural was like that. The pictures comparing it to the original show that Blizzard randomly increased that area by 2 squares.

I'd be curious to know why they did that. That map just went from being one I was excited about to an automatic veto unless that's fixed.
"Cliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide" -Tastosis
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8751 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-01-20 19:20:03
January 20 2019 19:19 GMT
#24
I was active when Darkness Sanctuary was on the ladder. I remember figuring out my own wall there that got the job done and wondering why pros were not doing a similar or identical wall as me (not that they'd copy me but I thought they'd independently figure it out). I saw walls that I thought were objectively worse and they sometimes suffered for it. Building formations are one of those things that pros sometimes overlook. Kind of reminds me when pros cannon rush and they make decisions that I think Printf has figured out are objectively sub-optimal. There are little pockets of expertise that non-pros can sometimes develop that end up surpassing what's done in tournaments.

Anyway, Darkness Sanctuary had its own challenges for PvZ once you safely got past early game. King's Cove might be a more tempting map for pros to solve the early game so that they can enjoy all those expansions after that.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
uspstracking05
Profile Joined January 2019
3 Posts
January 21 2019 09:05 GMT
#25
--- Nuked ---
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
23:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 86
SortOf 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3207
Icarus 5
Dota 2
monkeys_forever488
NeuroSwarm96
League of Legends
JimRising 942
Trikslyr33
Other Games
summit1g10473
WinterStarcraft474
C9.Mang0352
Mew2King276
kaitlyn32
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1178
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream346
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 19
• Adnapsc2 3
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1261
• Lourlo994
• Stunt359
Other Games
• Shiphtur216
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
6h 10m
PiGosaur Cup
19h 10m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
Wardi Open
1d 6h
OSC
1d 7h
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
1d 18h
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
OSC
3 days
LAN Event
3 days
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.