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United States33175 Posts
Update: Oct 31
Blizzard has added additional casters to the Korean community stream to try and improve the BlizzCon experience for the Korean fans, but the original GSL casters will remain absent from the broadcast.
The Korean community has expressed its outrage over the state of Korean-language casting for this year's WCS Global Finals, where it appears that the familiar voices of the GSL will not be casting StarCraft II's most prestigious event.
GSL commentator JYP told TeamLiquid.net that "...we were contacted before BlizzCon. Were were told that there was no separate budget for production or appearance fees. AfreecaTV would have been able to provide production/talent appearance support. Howevevr, [WCS at BlizzCon] was an exclusive Twitch stream, so we were unable to."
Korean fans took to Reddit, looking to catch the attention of the US-located, English-speaking, Blizzard headquarters.
One post read: "crank TV is playing the broadcast during the opening period. and LuciaTV from the quarterfinals to the final. Crank is a former pro(but even thoght he is just a one of streamer ), while Lucia is just a large-scale streamer with little to do with Starcraft 2( She has held the Starcraft 2 tournament, but basically, she is a not a starcraft2 streamer) . There's no mention of broadcast with expert commentator at all While even the StarCraft remaster event games are sent to the official channel, it is unknown that the main event of the blizzcon, the StarCraft 2 finals, will not use the official bradcast.
...
There are people who devote for Starcraft 2.Among them, the on-poong media created by GSL broadcast team holding a lot of competitions. of starcraft2 Despite this passion, Blizzard says that will not be able to make a boradcast and It has been known a while ago that Blizzard korea proposed a non-paycheck broadcast to on-poong team. It sounds like an excuse that we couldn't afford the broadcasting team because we didn't have the budget now. I think Blizzard is being too unfair for the interests of its users and fans."
Postings on Korean community forums expressed their displeasure at Blizzard's promotion of the 2018 War Chests as 'supporting esports' while failing to provide the Korean community with the commentary they had become accustomed to all year.
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On October 28 2018 18:03 Cptbeefy wrote:
gahhh..... Was that why the ASL finals had no english commentators?
ASL did have english commentators - Rapid and NoRegret casted it
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that's a big overlook from blizzard.
Crank casting the groupstage seems borderline fine, even though it should be standard to have a korean casting team in america imo. That should 100% be the case for blizzcon itself.
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$700K prize pool but doesn't want to support casting for the country half the players are from. Good job.
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How the hell does Blizzard drop the ball on this one.
The game starcraft and Korea is synonmous.
What the actual fuck.
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ESL casting their Dota2 major on FB seems better now. At least, they have better production.
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A disgrace imo. Thought it would be a given that they would fly GSL casters out to BlizzCon, just as they flew WCS casters out to Korea for GSL vs The World.
The money is just drop in the bucket. Seriously wishing I could return that stupid Warchest.
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I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream.
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On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't
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France12761 Posts
On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream.
Because there are more players in BlizzCon with Korean as first language than there are with English?
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On October 28 2018 18:25 Fango wrote:
$700K prize pool but doesn't want to support casting for the country half the players are from. Good job.
Blizzard makes such weird decisions sometimes. I'm glad the fans are speaking up, I'd be pretty unhappy with that too.
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I will stay with korean community no matter what. So biggest fck you dear Blizzard for making another one pointless decision.
Btw AfreecaTV ang GSL has the best production.
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On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream.
Your point isn't altogether that bad - although I'm strongly on the side of "WTF Blizzard" on this one - but here are some things to consider as to why the comparison between Korea and Germany is bad here:
Korea has always had a disproportionately high number of StarCraft fans, players and pros compared to any other country, and clearly cared enough about the game to organise large grassroots tournaments and put the game on TV for years. Even with SC2 being nowhere near as popular as BW in Korea, they're still the single biggest national scene. Remember that when you're comparing viewership between regional events you're comparing Korea alone vs a dozen or two Western countries - and they are still comparable. Blizzard clearly understand this since they've given Korea its own WCS region since the inception of the WCS system.
Even with BlizzCon being an event that always draws a lot of outsider eyeballs and not just strictly regular fans, it still seems stupid and disrespectful for them to exclude the one nation with the biggest scene and culture of their game, even if that's maybe only 10-15-20% of the audience.
Also, one more thing, here in Europe we tend to learn English en masse from a very young age and many of us are constantly surrounded by it in media and culture. In my experience East Asian countries tend to be a lot weaker in terms of how well-versed the average citizen is at speaking English. I'm not educated enough on the subject to tell you why, but it's the reality of the situation.
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I have a feeling that there is more to this story.
Completely ignoring the koreans seems like such an obviously bad choice, not sure why they'd ever consider doing just that.
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On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream.
dude, wtf, a korean caster team, did you just came from mars? english IS NOT THE language all over the world. Bite it.
Damn.
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On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't
It is, just not in this context
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We get like 10 speaking americans, and none Korean? holy god that sucks :'(
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thats crazy considering the english broadcast has 14 (!!!) talents. while korean has 0. would it have been so difficult to do 10-4 or something instead?
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Did Crank not get flown out last year or did that not happend, because could they not have done that again. Plus why can they fly so many english casters but not one korean.
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On October 28 2018 19:01 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't It is, just not in this context
It's the #3 language in the world 
Not but seriously this is not great from Blizzard.
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Blizzard's casual disrespect for the scene that kept their esports relevant for years never ceases to amaze me.
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On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't
in my experience if two people from different countrys meet they try to comunicate in english (or spanish) most of the time. also in companies the most spoken language is english. thats y i think so.
On October 28 2018 18:49 207aicila wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream. Your point isn't altogether that bad - although I'm strongly on the side of "WTF Blizzard" on this one - but here are some things to consider as to why the comparison between Korea and Germany is bad here: Korea has always had a disproportionately high number of StarCraft fans, players and pros compared to any other country, and clearly cared enough about the game to organise large grassroots tournaments and put the game on TV for years. Even with SC2 being nowhere near as popular as BW in Korea, they're still the single biggest national scene. Remember that when you're comparing viewership between regional events you're comparing Korea alone vs a dozen or two Western countries - and they are still comparable. Blizzard clearly understand this since they've given Korea its own WCS region since the inception of the WCS system. Even with BlizzCon being an event that always draws a lot of outsider eyeballs and not just strictly regular fans, it still seems stupid and disrespectful for them to exclude the one nation with the biggest scene and culture of their game, even if that's maybe only 10-15-20% of the audience. Also, one more thing, here in Europe we tend to learn English en masse from a very young age and many of us are constantly surrounded by it in media and culture. In my experience East Asian countries tend to be a lot weaker in terms of how well-versed the average citizen is at speaking English. I'm not educated enough on the subject to tell you why, but it's the reality of the situation.
agree with most of your points. just wanted to point out that its not naturally that a country can demand a first language stream.
but reading through some arguments like yours i also think there should have been a korean stream. especially if your consider this:
On October 28 2018 19:12 Morrissey wrote:
thats crazy considering the english broadcast has 14 (!!!) talents. while korean has 0. would it have been so difficult to do 10-4 or something instead?
additional note: people like you dummy1 should try to be a little more respectful and dont act like a aggressor. no need for this in this forum.
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i think it has something to do about twitch and afreeca which are both streaming platforms.. but we won't get much besides public PR release full of nice words from Blizzard so.. ye bad things happens
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no official korean stream, 30 minute downtime between each game, played on a god-awful proxy patch. gj blizz
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That is pathetic.
What are they using the warchest funds for then?
More american casters?
As a fan 70% of the fun in SC2 is watching the GSL.
Blizzard should have offered the korean stream to AfreecaTV.
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Completely ridiculous and absolutely disgraceful. Way to throw the biggest Starcraft country in the world under the bus, Blizzard.
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what a massive disrespect
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Sigh. Why does it seem like Blizzard goes out of their way, time and time again to fuck with the Korean Starcraft scene? Just give them the same resources you give the western scene, why is that so fucking hard to understand?
You already know that the game isn't as popular over there, how the hell do you expect to GET IT more popular if they keep doing shit like this. Ugh.
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South Korea2105 Posts
I wonder who's calling the shots on these decisions..
And although I agree it's a (hopefully unintended) affront that should have been avoided, Blizzard are still a company that needs to make a profit, trying to keep a franchise (that isn't doing as well as it used to) alive. And, according to fuzic.nl, the viewership has certainly increased across the board this year. Perhaps if they'd put more resources into reinvigorating the Korean fanbase, the South Korean audience would also grow, justifying the need for a separate cast in their mother tongue.
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On October 28 2018 19:12 Morrissey wrote:
thats crazy considering the english broadcast has 14 (!!!) talents. while korean has 0. would it have been so difficult to do 10-4 or something instead?
No kidding. I'd be happy with half of the talent staying home if it meant the Koreans got their main cast here.
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So no cast in korean. Tough luck. Join the other 6000+ languages.
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On October 28 2018 19:23 DarkGamer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't in my experience if two people from different countrys meet they try to comunicate in english (or spanish) most of the time. also in companies the most spoken language is english. thats y i think so.
only in western countries
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This is disgraceful. Seriously hoping Blizzard realizes how bad this is.
It seems their whole bet on the future of SC2 are the mixed Korean-Circuit events, which also seem to be the most popular. It hardly helps the struggling Korean scene if there is no proper casting talent for them. They should obviously have brought in the GSL-crew.
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On October 28 2018 19:39 Pr0wler wrote:
So no cast in korean. Tough luck. Join the other 6000+ languages.
There are two regions. Korea and the rest of the world. Both regions should be treated equally. You can't compare Korea to any other individual country.
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If what the post says is true, then Blizzard's statement is simple illogical
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On October 28 2018 19:39 Pr0wler wrote:
So no cast in korean. Tough luck. Join the other 6000+ languages.
The fuck are you on about? Half of the tournament is Korean! It's not a minor region it's the biggest region in the damn game!
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What is the word from the WCS is everyone paid for? Is it a lack of availability from the koreans? We need all the facts here...
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The fact that WCS is Twitch exclusive in the first place is fucking retarded, but then again Blizz has a history of making terrible exclusive contracts with streaming services. I might be the only one in this thread that remembers the goddawful exclusive partnership they had with FACEBOOK LOL for Heroes of the Dorm last year.
You'd think they'd eventually learn their lesson about shit like this. It's not like Afreeca is a small time partner either, Afreeca supports SC2 as much if not more than IEM or Dreamhack do and Blizzard WOULD NEVER screw those guys over like this.
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really, really dumb. any korean trying to watch blizzcon for SC2 is a devoted fan. shitting on them for no reason is how you kill a game with small viewership/player numbers.
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On October 28 2018 19:54 Vindicare605 wrote:
The fact that WCS is Twitch exclusive in the first place is fucking retarded, but then again Blizz has a history of making terrible exclusive contracts with streaming services. I might be the only one in this thread that remembers the goddawful exclusive partnership they had with FACEBOOK LOL for Heroes of the Dorm last year.
You'd think they'd eventually learn their lesson about shit like this. It's not like Afreeca is a small time partner either, Afreeca supports SC2 as much if not more than IEM or Dreamhack do and Blizzard WOULD NEVER screw those guys over like this.
Maybe running tournamets for an unpopular game is kind of hard and expensive and they need every bit of facebook/amazon cash that they can find. The whole esports scene is really forced at this point.
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On October 28 2018 19:42 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 19:23 DarkGamer wrote:On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't in my experience if two people from different countrys meet they try to comunicate in english (or spanish) most of the time. also in companies the most spoken language is english. thats y i think so. only in western countries
actually that's the same in asia, it is kinda expected to try in english because most often english is taught as a second language
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On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't
it totally is.
Yet, there obviously has to be professional korean coverage
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On October 28 2018 19:29 Freeborn wrote:
What are they using the warchest funds for then?
Filling up Koticks bathtube.
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This is absurd. Ignoring THE region where, historically and now, the best players are from is almost an insult to the whole scene.
Btw, the individual Afreeca-hosted tourneys have better production than the WCS events, and at least they have English casters.
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On October 28 2018 20:05 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 19:54 Vindicare605 wrote:
The fact that WCS is Twitch exclusive in the first place is fucking retarded, but then again Blizz has a history of making terrible exclusive contracts with streaming services. I might be the only one in this thread that remembers the goddawful exclusive partnership they had with FACEBOOK LOL for Heroes of the Dorm last year.
You'd think they'd eventually learn their lesson about shit like this. It's not like Afreeca is a small time partner either, Afreeca supports SC2 as much if not more than IEM or Dreamhack do and Blizzard WOULD NEVER screw those guys over like this. Maybe running tournamets for an unpopular game is kind of hard and expensive and they need every bit of facebook/amazon cash that they can find. The whole esports scene is really forced at this point.
The entire reason companies are even incentivized to do it in the first place is because it advertises the game.
There's no fucking point in doing it at all if no one watches it. And NO ONE watched Heroes of the Dorm last year because the streaming service was fucking terrible, and now Blizzard is making it way harder for Korean viewers to support players FROM THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
Yea you're right, it's expensive to do an event. That's why you make sure that EVERYONE that can possibly watch, watches. Otherwise, there really is no point to doing it.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 28 2018 19:32 Psychonian wrote:
Completely ridiculous and absolutely disgraceful. Way to throw the biggest Starcraft country in the world under the bus, Blizzard.
You noticed just now?
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On October 28 2018 18:27 papaz wrote:
How the hell does Blizzard drop the ball on this one.
The game starcraft and Korea is synonmous.
What the actual fuck.
Apollo taught them racism
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 28 2018 20:18 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:27 papaz wrote:
How the hell does Blizzard drop the ball on this one.
The game starcraft and Korea is synonmous.
What the actual fuck. Apollo taught them racism
It's not like a company from US needs some lessons. I still remember my 8 years in an american corporation. But at least they were subtle and would issue a statement how bringing one Korean would ruin the warchest money gained.
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On October 28 2018 20:15 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 20:05 Pr0wler wrote:On October 28 2018 19:54 Vindicare605 wrote:
The fact that WCS is Twitch exclusive in the first place is fucking retarded, but then again Blizz has a history of making terrible exclusive contracts with streaming services. I might be the only one in this thread that remembers the goddawful exclusive partnership they had with FACEBOOK LOL for Heroes of the Dorm last year.
You'd think they'd eventually learn their lesson about shit like this. It's not like Afreeca is a small time partner either, Afreeca supports SC2 as much if not more than IEM or Dreamhack do and Blizzard WOULD NEVER screw those guys over like this. Maybe running tournamets for an unpopular game is kind of hard and expensive and they need every bit of facebook/amazon cash that they can find. The whole esports scene is really forced at this point. The entire reason companies are even incentivized to do it in the first place is because it advertises the game. There's no fucking point in doing it at all if no one watches it. And NO ONE watched Heroes of the Dorm last year because the streaming service was fucking terrible, and now Blizzard is making it way harder for Korean viewers to support players FROM THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Yea you're right, it's expensive to do an event. That's why you make sure that EVERYONE that can possibly watch, watches. Otherwise, there really is no point to doing it.
You are making it look like a black and white scenario when it's not. Obviously they want everyone to watch the event and most of the people will watch it on Twitch. Even the koreans. Now they have to make a decision : Is the Twitch exclusivity deal worth more than allowing the koreans to watch SC2 in their own language ? I guess we know the answer.
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there never was korean cast for blizzcon right ?
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I don't understand what so-called 'Twitch exclusive' means.
In China mainland, where Twitch is totally blocked, the whole BlizzCon event is streamed over many other streaming platform.
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Finland926 Posts
On October 28 2018 20:14 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't it totally is.
It isn't, though.
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Canada8988 Posts
Wow that's terrible, Koreans have to be so mad at Blizz with all the shit they have been pulling the last few years.
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On October 28 2018 20:51 hexhaven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 20:14 KalWarkov wrote:On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't it totally is. It isn't, though.
Is it thooouuugh????
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In this year's Blizzcon, Korea has all the other game have official channels and commentator but only there are no starcraft2. What the hell
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I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and where exactly?
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On October 28 2018 21:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and where exactly?
Probably for a thing called WCS. You might've heard of it.
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On October 28 2018 21:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and what?
Apart from the last NationWars, they haven't been transparent about where the money goes.
Although it also doubled the prize money of ShoutCraft Kings back then.
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On October 28 2018 21:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and where exactly?
to make the rich guys richer.
The Blizzcon winner getting an extra 80k is really important for keeping the scene alive.
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On October 28 2018 21:25 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 21:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and where exactly? Probably for a thing called WCS. You might've heard of it.
So vague. Its never told more precisely. So Blizzard was already paying for WCS before warchest. Now Warchest pays part of it or what? Or "we" funding HomeStory Cup? Or..? Or..?
EDIT: Im not talking about the Blizzcon prize pool. Im talking about the rest of the money
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On October 28 2018 21:29 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 21:25 Pr0wler wrote:On October 28 2018 21:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and where exactly? Probably for a thing called WCS. You might've heard of it. So vague. Its never told more precisely. So Blizzard was already paying for WCS before warchest. Now Warchest pays part of it or what? Or "we" funding HomeStory Cup? Or..? Or..? EDIT: Im not talking about the Blizzcon prize pool. Im talking about the rest of the money
I think that it's obvious that the rest of the money goes for WCS and whatever other tournament they decide to fund. Before the warchest they were paying 100%, now they are paying less and are adding crowd funding.
Of course there is the possibility that Kotick bought a new car with the money, but I highly doubt it.
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I can imagine how sad and angry all the Korean fans are right now. They have been supporting the scene for years with all the forks around playing other games like LOL, OW... and now they get completely ignored by Blizzard.
Watching English stream for Korean is like watching a Bulgarian or Russian streams for most of you guys, it's just unwatchable.
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On October 28 2018 21:29 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 21:25 Pr0wler wrote:On October 28 2018 21:20 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
I have been always wondering where warchest funds go to? To support scene? But how and where exactly? Probably for a thing called WCS. You might've heard of it. So vague. Its never told more precisely. So Blizzard was already paying for WCS before warchest. Now Warchest pays part of it or what? Or "we" funding HomeStory Cup? Or..? Or..? EDIT: Im not talking about the Blizzcon prize pool. Im talking about the rest of the money
warchests went into IEM WC, shoutcraft, nationwars and blizzcon prizepool, not 100% of it, but i think blizzard earned some money with them as well.
as already mentioned above, they just support already bigger tournaments (nationswars beeing the exeption here) where the prizemoney is already huge, but i guess hype > allowing more pro gamers to earn some money for some people
which is why i skipped the second warchest
for the topic:
warchest or not, blizzard just should pay two korean casters, i think the reasons are (or should be) obvious to anyone....
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Maybe Blizzard is secretly trying to help educate Koreans by forcing them to learn English, which is the main avenue of breaking the cultural barriers between the western and eastern cultures?
Probably not, but to be fair, gaming really is one of the key sources of English language skills for the young generations in non-English speaking countries, at least by my limited observation of my freinds' kids. Of course it would be nicer for Blizzard to provide Koreans with aq native language stream, but acting like they are some kinds of terrorized victims is way overdone. There has never been a stream of an SC2 event in my native language (I am natively Czech, just living in Poland) and so is the case for a large part of the world.
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On October 28 2018 21:48 opisska wrote:
Maybe Blizzard is secretly trying to help educate Koreans by forcing them to learn English, which is the main avenue of breaking the cultural barriers between the western and eastern cultures?
Probably not, but to be fair, gaming really is one of the key sources of English language skills for the young generations in non-English speaking countries, at least by my limited observation of my freinds' kids. Of course it would be nicer for Blizzard to provide Koreans with aq native language stream, but acting like they are some kinds of terrorized victims is way overdone. There has never been a stream of an SC2 event in my native language (I am natively Czech, just living in Poland) and so is the case for a large part of the world.
i didn't know that the czech republic is the dominating force in sc2 (or maybe esports in general) with 50 % of the pros at blizzcon and there very own branch of WCS.
can we please stop to sell the point, that korea is just an other country when it comes to starcraft?
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The point about English being a main language in 'the world' is completely redundant when most of the English cast is comprised of meme's anyways.
If the cast used more 'standard English' and not just meme's or 'in jokes' then it would be easier for non native speakers to understand it.
All that besides, when blizzard set up the 2 region system, WCS Circuit and Korea Circuit then surely in terms of competition that states that Korea is equal to the rest of the world, therefore they should have their own cast to go along side the English one. Whilst they do have 'a cast' surely they should invest to give the fans the cast they want. The same guys why cover the Korea Circuit (including GSL's) all year round.
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On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream.
Koreans commentators have a very different style then western ones, even the few Koreans that speak English get bored to death with the Eng Commentary.
700k$ out of skins, I can't wait for Brood War to have skins too.
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Beyond stupid. Make the prize pool 100k lower if need be. Koreans are the soul of SC.
I'm glad I skipped on warchest this time around.
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Why doesn't Blizzard just fly Crank out right now? Get him out there and get him a plane ticket.
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wow ... this is surprising. i dont see how blizzard could not have the budget for this. there are so many things that imho could be cut before korean casting — even prize pool.
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Btw. The most-spoken language in Europe is German and not English. When I was in the Netherlands and people noticed, I was German they started talking in German instead of English. Same thing happened to me in northern Italy with the exception that these Italians only spoke Italian and German. Just an hour ago I spoke to a German living in Denmark (Sonderborg-region). She can't talk English so I wanted to know how she is communicating with the Danes and she said they all speak German because she is still learning Danish.
What's so weird about Germany is that you are forced to learn more than one foreign language (English is ok) if you go to a grammar school. Why should you learn French? There are only 5 European countries using this language - 3 of them being extremely small - and the rest is in Africa. And Spanish makes even less sense here.
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this is beyond stupid by blizzard. might as well raise the price for sc2 from 0 to 100 dollars. probably has the same effect. well played blizzard.
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On October 28 2018 19:17 RxMidnight wrote:
Blizzard's casual disrespect for the scene that kept their esports relevant for years never ceases to amaze me.
They've honestly disrespected the scene for years with their lack of patching/support, and then when they do patch there's usually massive issues that remain in the game for the next 1-2 years, people realize it's destroying the game, then they come out with another 1 off huge patch that doesn't address any pertinent gameplay issues.
Rinse repeat that cycle - it's all the SC2 community has ever known, which is why some naive people start to get all excited when they hear word of any sort of patch, regardless if the patch doesn't even address pertinent gameplay issues - people are just excited for the bread scraps when it comes to sc2.
It's not surprising this type of debacle it seems blizzard gave up on sc2 a while ago. Mostly it's the community now that keeps the game kind of relevant amongst ourselves.
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On October 28 2018 22:35 Schluppik wrote:
Btw. The most-spoken language in Europe is German and not English. When I was in the Netherlands and people noticed, I was German they started talking in German instead of English. Same thing happened to me in northern Italy with the exception that these Italians only spoke Italian and German. Just an hour ago I spoke to a German living in Denmark (Sonderborg-region). She can't talk English so I wanted to know how she is communicating with the Danes and she said they all speak German because she is still learning Danish.
What's so weird about Germany is that you are forced to learn more than one foreign language (English is ok) if you go to a grammar school. Why should you learn French? There are only 5 European countries using this language - 3 of them being extremely small - and the rest is in Africa. And Spanish makes even less sense here.
Start the outrage about german stream ! I mean, this is how the internet works.
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i get irritated when there's sc2 content not in english.. i'd be livid if blizzcon wasnt in a language i understood
regardless of the excuse.. i feel like this a huge issue
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I hope Innovation and FantaSy return to brood war. The korean brood war scene is strong - they would be properly appreciated there!
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By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis.
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On October 28 2018 20:15 Kurao wrote:
This is absurd. Ignoring THE region where, historically and now, the best players are from is almost an insult to the whole scene.
Btw, the individual Afreeca-hosted tourneys have better production than the WCS events, and at least they have English casters.
Lol true - ASL production is top notch. WCS events on the other hand are barely a step up from HSC.
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On October 28 2018 22:35 Schluppik wrote:
Btw. The most-spoken language in Europe is German and not English. When I was in the Netherlands and people noticed, I was German they started talking in German instead of English. Same thing happened to me in northern Italy with the exception that these Italians only spoke Italian and German. Just an hour ago I spoke to a German living in Denmark (Sonderborg-region). She can't talk English so I wanted to know how she is communicating with the Danes and she said they all speak German because she is still learning Danish.
What's so weird about Germany is that you are forced to learn more than one foreign language (English is ok) if you go to a grammar school. Why should you learn French? There are only 5 European countries using this language - 3 of them being extremely small - and the rest is in Africa. And Spanish makes even less sense here.
Meh. While the conclusion may possibly be true, this is a lot of nit picking to call this "most spoken language". You basically said "German is the most spoken language in Germany, and in two of its smallest adjacent countries"?
It's as if I use the example that I live in Germany and my neighbours usually communicate in Spanish, not German, no that much English, so most Europe speak Spanish? :o
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On October 28 2018 23:10 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 20:15 Kurao wrote:
This is absurd. Ignoring THE region where, historically and now, the best players are from is almost an insult to the whole scene.
Btw, the individual Afreeca-hosted tourneys have better production than the WCS events, and at least they have English casters. Lol true - ASL production is top notch. WCS events on the other hand are barely a step up from HSC.
Considering that HSC has the best casting, pretty damn good.
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Was there a korean desk last year?
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Postings on Korean community forums expressed their displeasure at Blizzard's promotion of the 2018 War Chests as 'supporting esports' while failing to provide the Korean community with the commentary they had become accustomed to all year.
+1
User was warned for this post.
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It's pretty awful but the outrage seems a little over the top. They can watch the games. They can even watch the games with korean commentary. You're talking about a company that is known for "profit above all else"... I'd be happy to have a korean stream if I was korean and wanted to watch in korean. I've watched a hilarious amount of starcraft and starcraft2 tournaments with commentary in a language I don't even understand. It'll be okay, just enjoy the games.
Anyways there may be more to this story than we are hearing, it might be a little more nuanced business wise. Also might not, though. Activision is pretty shitty.
On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I don't think it's foreigner bias. It's underdog bias. These commentators were playing broodwar, when the struggle was *really* real. When any foreigner ever winning any sort of competitive game vs a korean was something that was talked about for weeks.
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On October 28 2018 18:04 atrox_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:03 Cptbeefy wrote:
gahhh..... Was that why the ASL finals had no english commentators? ASL did have english commentators - Rapid and NoRegret casted it
terrible casters compared to artosis and tasteless.
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On October 28 2018 23:42 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I don't think it's foreigner bias. It's underdog bias. These commentators were playing broodwar, when the struggle was *really* real. When any foreigner ever winning any sort of competitive game vs a korean was something that was talked about for weeks.
That's only true in the sense where underdog bias and foreigner bias are equivalent, though, considering their darling is Serral.
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On October 28 2018 23:42 travis wrote:
It's pretty awful but the outrage seems a little over the top. They can watch the games. They can even watch the games with korean commentary. You're talking about a company that is known for "profit above all else"... I'd be happy to have a korean stream if I was korean and wanted to watch in korean. I've watched a hilarious amount of starcraft and starcraft2 tournaments with commentary in a language I don't even understand. It'll be okay, just enjoy the games.
Anyways there may be more to this story than we are hearing, it might be a little more nuanced business wise. Also might not, though. Activision is pretty shitty.
Isn't the problem that the playoffs streamer isn't even a proper sc2 caster? So it's barely better than nothing.
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The korean Blizzcon stream is definitely not in a good position. Blizzard should at least offer a korean stream in studio quality for the biggest Sc2 event of the year, it don't have to be necessarily live from Anaheim. It is incomprehensible to me why they didn't hire the onpoong team for it, maybe there were some legal difficulties regarding the twitch and AfreecaTV contracts.
On the other side though at this point it is delusional to expect a korean stream anywhere near the level of the english main stream. The only reasons why Blizzard is so much invested into korean Sc2 is a) the pro players and they importance for the global scene and b) historical reasons but definitly not the size of the korean scene right now.
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France12761 Posts
Yeah that’s pretty insulting.
Imagine instead of Tastosis you got that Fortnite guy ninja commenting BlizzCon, you would be far more outraged than having HajinSun instead of Smix believe me
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 28 2018 23:46 Connor56201 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:04 atrox_ wrote:On October 28 2018 18:03 Cptbeefy wrote:
gahhh..... Was that why the ASL finals had no english commentators? ASL did have english commentators - Rapid and NoRegret casted it terrible casters compared to artosis and tasteless.
The point is that they didn't restrict it to Korean crowd.
Korea sends half the players to Blizzcon, the biggest number of expectants to win the whole thing are from Korea, the whole Starcraft craziness started in Korea. Why the hell they cannot have 1 or 2 damn commentators and a stream is way beyond my understanding.
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Time and time again, we've seen Blizzard doesn't care about Korea. It completely baffles me.
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This is completely fucked. Biggest moment of sc2 year for the community that has kept rts relevant for the last 20 years. Way to show your appreciation.
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On October 28 2018 18:35 Musicus wrote:The money is just drop in the bucket. Seriously wishing I could return that stupid Warchest.
Are you sure that you cant?
Gewährleistung, Garantie, Umtauschrecht Verbraucherzentrale and such....
After all you bought the Warchest thinking that services and products would include stuff. You formed that opinion because you thought past experiences were an indicator of what kind of product you could expect this year.
At least I'd think that's what convinced you to buy it.
Causing 25€ worth of extra work for Blizzard shouldnt be that hard.
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I totally get they want Korean coverage, it is normal however I quietly dare to mention 2 things:
A) Korean teens should be encouraged to play/watch e sports in English, because that teaches them the most important international language, and things like these help a lot more than textbooks and such. The English knowledge of the average Korean youth is shamefully bad, for a nation as advanced as that. And you cant really say it's cultural, Japanese youth speak decent English compared to Koreans, as far as i can tell.
B) For the longest time we were watching Korean VODs and be super-excited about it, with no chance of an official English cover on the horizon. Then a few fairly bad English casters appeared who recasted korean VODs. FFs, I remember wacthing a VOD from a guy who was casting it from his car, parked in front of the university's library to leech wifi, and I watched it cuz that was the only English cover.
User was warned for this post
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On October 29 2018 00:15 DomeGetta wrote:
This is completely fucked. Biggest moment of sc2 year for the community that has kept rts relevant for the last 20 years. Way to show your appreciation.
Yeah, especially after they had such a big launch event for SC:R in Korea. Blizzard has really grown out of touch with their roots, reading things like this just reassure me not to spend any more money on their games.
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Uncle Mike leaves Blizzard and already stuff is falling through the cracks for his favourite part of BlizzCon.
Blizzard is starting to become just another video game developer. sad stuff.
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This is utter crap, I mean Blizz does whatever they want in their own event and tournament but since its the world championship for SC2 and that game has its biggest following in korea this is pretty shitty.
Morhaime steps down and this shit happens, I wonder if that has anything to do with this stupid decision. This really doesn't make me want to support SC2 through warchests and whatever, obviously they don't know what to do with the money anyways.
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On October 29 2018 00:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Uncle Mike leaves Blizzard and already stuff is falling through the cracks for his favourite part of BlizzCon.
Blizzard is starting to become just another video game developer. sad stuff.
Wow, definitely would not have expected such a comment from you! Kudos, Jimmy!
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On October 28 2018 23:42 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I don't think it's foreigner bias. It's underdog bias. These commentators were playing broodwar, when the struggle was *really* real. When any foreigner ever winning any sort of competitive game vs a korean was something that was talked about for weeks.
Underdog bias? When are they ever biased against Serral in any of his matches? I've never seen it.
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This is a stupid decision..
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On October 29 2018 00:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
I totally get they want Korean coverage, it is normal however I quietly dare to mention 2 things:
A) Korean teens should be encouraged to play/watch e sports in English, because that teaches them the most important international language, and things like these help a lot more than textbooks and such. The English knowledge of the average Korean youth is shamefully bad, for a nation as advanced as that. And you cant really say it's cultural, Japanese youth speak decent English compared to Koreans, as far as i can tell.
Quite possibly the most ignorant thing I've ever read on these forums.
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This is a massive mistake. Even if they thought the "ends justified the means," how could it possibly do so after all the outrage?
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Now that i re-read it: the dumbest thing appears to be that they denied afreeca the opportunity to step in? So it can't have been just about the money.
What nonsense!
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On October 29 2018 00:30 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 23:42 travis wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I don't think it's foreigner bias. It's underdog bias. These commentators were playing broodwar, when the struggle was *really* real. When any foreigner ever winning any sort of competitive game vs a korean was something that was talked about for weeks. Underdog bias? When are they ever biased against Serral in any of his matches? I've never seen it.
That's not the same, because Serral's story *is* the quintessential underdog story. It's the foreigner that dominates like the korean champions do. I think that if Serral could keep it up for long enough, they will be biased against him.
I mean what is the alternative explanation. That Tastosis and co are just racist? That doesn't even make any sense. They want to see foreigners do well because it is new and unexpected and that is fun.
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We owe a lot to the Korean scene.. like maybe even esports in general, so it feels really disrespectful of Blizzard. I imagine there is a lot of markting/brand management/license stuff going on in the background but still, its not ok, you can do better Blizzard.
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On October 29 2018 00:59 Nerdmigo79 wrote:
We owe a lot to the Korean scene.. like maybe even esports in general, so it feels really disrespectful of Blizzard. I imagine there is a lot of markting/brand management/license stuff going on in the background but still, its not ok, you can do better Blizzard.
I agree. Whether or not it was smart in a business sense, this is almost a symbolic betrayal of Korean scene. I really cannot understand for the life of me why some people are thinking like "Korea is just another country so cry me a river if they're not getting some sort of privileged treatment." That just flies in the face of how important the Korean scene has been for SC2.
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On October 29 2018 00:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
I totally get they want Korean coverage, it is normal however I quietly dare to mention 2 things:
A) Korean teens should be encouraged to play/watch e sports in English, because that teaches them the most important international language, and things like these help a lot more than textbooks and such. The English knowledge of the average Korean youth is shamefully bad, for a nation as advanced as that. And you cant really say it's cultural, Japanese youth speak decent English compared to Koreans, as far as i can tell.
B) For the longest time we were watching Korean VODs and be super-excited about it, with no chance of an official English cover on the horizon. Then a few fairly bad English casters appeared who recasted korean VODs. FFs, I remember wacthing a VOD from a guy who was casting it from his car, parked in front of the university's library to leech wifi, and I watched it cuz that was the only English cover.
User was warned for this post
I really wonder how a post like his gets a warning. Why is this even a discussion thread when the allowed opinion is predefined?
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On October 29 2018 00:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Uncle Mike leaves Blizzard and already stuff is falling through the cracks for his favourite part of BlizzCon.
Blizzard is starting to become just another video game developer. sad stuff.
Post your internal documents that morhaime made the decision on casting distribution
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On October 29 2018 00:54 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:30 Rodya wrote:On October 28 2018 23:42 travis wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I don't think it's foreigner bias. It's underdog bias. These commentators were playing broodwar, when the struggle was *really* real. When any foreigner ever winning any sort of competitive game vs a korean was something that was talked about for weeks. Underdog bias? When are they ever biased against Serral in any of his matches? I've never seen it. That's not the same, because Serral's story *is* the quintessential underdog story. It's the foreigner that dominates like the korean champions do. I think that if Serral could keep it up for long enough, they will be biased against him. I mean what is the alternative explanation. That Tastosis and co are just racist? That doesn't even make any sense. They want to see foreigners do well because it is new and unexpected and that is fun.
The alternative explanation is the one the casters themselves give: that they are very biased in favor of foreigners. I don't know what to say, Incontrol and pig and Tasteless in particular say so very clearly, multiple times. Is that racism? Well a bit, although most people are racist to some degree.
Listening to what the casters themselves say also sheds light on why your hypothesis is dubious. Firstly, they all say that Serral is a favorite in every match he has played so far, so he's not an underdog. If Serral is the underdog story, then how come he is never painted as the underdog? If you're playing the underdog story, then you should paint his match against sOs as the next giant hurdle that he has to overcome (I mean... it's sOs at Blizzcon, how hard would it be to hype that? And same with his match against Zest... it's freaking Zest). Instead, it was painted as something that he would easily win because he's 'the most dominant player of all time' or something.
Secondly, look at the past - we tend to be in love with champions and the casters are no exception. Flash, JD, Innovation, Life, Mvp, Nestea, Taeja - the list goes on. You hear things like "it'd be a great story if X were to win this", but then you hear tons of gushing over the favorite. Also there is a good, balanced way to hype up the underdog and a bad way. The good way can be seen in Snute vs Flash IEM Toronto, where Snute goes up 2-0 I believe and the casters, who are Snute fans, don't stop doing objective analysis as Flash sets up his reverse sweep. The bad way is how they do it now, where everything is painted as part of Serral's grand scheme.
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On October 29 2018 00:29 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Uncle Mike leaves Blizzard and already stuff is falling through the cracks for his favourite part of BlizzCon.
Blizzard is starting to become just another video game developer. sad stuff. Wow, definitely would not have expected such a comment from you! Kudos, Jimmy!
if you read my stuff carefully, when Blizzard screws up .. i say so. check my Overwatch comments and my comments in the "Mike is stepping down" thread.
i think Blizzard has been amazing for a long time .. but with Pardo, Metzen and Morhaime gone.. is it really the company we grew up with?
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This is dumb. Bliz should have brought Korean casters to wcs.
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Blizzard korea and blizzard aren't samesies guys, and blizzkr has been questionable a lot of the time
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On October 29 2018 01:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 00:29 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 00:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Uncle Mike leaves Blizzard and already stuff is falling through the cracks for his favourite part of BlizzCon.
Blizzard is starting to become just another video game developer. sad stuff. Wow, definitely would not have expected such a comment from you! Kudos, Jimmy! if you read my stuff carefully, when Blizzard screws up .. i say so. check my Overwatch comments and my comments in the "Mike is stepping down" thread. i think Blizzard has been amazing for a long time .. but with Pardo, Metzen and Morhaime gone.. is it really the company we grew up with?
The signs of Blizzard's downfall were visible way earlier than this, though. Sorry, don't read OW-related stuff, as this game itself is the embodiment of "new Blizzard' to me, I even bought it and tried to give it a chance, but had to ask for a refund.
Just glad even people like you who always try to see the positive side (as opposed to me, I know I'm kinda the negative guy) slowly come to realize what has become of Blizzard (I know, what a dramatic and harsh statement, but as someone who has played all of their games throughout the last 20 years or so, I'm just fed up with the direction they've been heading.
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On October 29 2018 00:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
I totally get they want Korean coverage, it is normal however I quietly dare to mention 2 things:
A) Korean teens should be encouraged to play/watch e sports in English, because that teaches them the most important international language, and things like these help a lot more than textbooks and such. The English knowledge of the average Korean youth is shamefully bad, for a nation as advanced as that. And you cant really say it's cultural, Japanese youth speak decent English compared to Koreans, as far as i can tell.
B) For the longest time we were watching Korean VODs and be super-excited about it, with no chance of an official English cover on the horizon. Then a few fairly bad English casters appeared who recasted korean VODs. FFs, I remember wacthing a VOD from a guy who was casting it from his car, parked in front of the university's library to leech wifi, and I watched it cuz that was the only English cover.
User was warned for this post
Why warn this guy wtf.
I agree his points aren't really good points as to why Blizzards decision is right but having a differential opinion shouldn't result in a warning.
The bottomline in this discussion is that Blizz does whatever they want with their own events and if we want to effect that write to blizzard and vote with your wallet.
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LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests.
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BTW therer are way too many English casters than necessary, don't know why they can't just cut a few.
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On October 29 2018 01:32 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:12 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 29 2018 00:29 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 00:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Uncle Mike leaves Blizzard and already stuff is falling through the cracks for his favourite part of BlizzCon.
Blizzard is starting to become just another video game developer. sad stuff. Wow, definitely would not have expected such a comment from you! Kudos, Jimmy! if you read my stuff carefully, when Blizzard screws up .. i say so. check my Overwatch comments and my comments in the "Mike is stepping down" thread. i think Blizzard has been amazing for a long time .. but with Pardo, Metzen and Morhaime gone.. is it really the company we grew up with? The signs of Blizzard's downfall were visible way earlier than this, though. Sorry, don't read OW-related stuff, as this game itself is the embodiment of "new Blizzard' to me, I even bought it and tried to give it a chance, but had to ask for a refund. Just glad even people like you who always try to see the positive side (as opposed to me, I know I'm kinda the negative guy) slowly come to realize what has become of Blizzard (I know, what a dramatic and harsh statement, but as someone who has played all of their games throughout the last 20 years or so, I'm just fed up with the direction they've been heading.
pretty off topic but here goes....
+ Show Spoiler +i think SC2 is a giant pile of great fun. Its the game I play more than any other Blizzard game. As a result, i see Blizzard as really good.
Blizzard whiffed with OW and Heroes of the Storm. It cost Morhaime his job. OW started off nicely making a billion in 10 months. Now it along with Heroes is hemorrhaging users at a scarey pace. Blizzard has lost 9 million users in 10 months and that is primarily from Heroes and OW.
OW isn't a disaster.. me and many of my friends thought it was an awesome game for about 6 months. ..it just has no staying power.
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Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2
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This is kind of ridiculous especially since Blizzard refuses to tell us where the rest of the war chest proceeds actually go. It would be nice to see Blizzard start trying to get more events and funding going in Korea again.
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On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2
Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage.
Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore.
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Awful that what is a really enjoyable tournament is being corrupted by this stupidity and I hope this is not the new look for blizzard post-Morhaime. Their lack of support for sc2 in Korea and alienation from that community is *the* major mistake that sent the company most responsible for creating esports (from bw to dota) way behind the ball today. Sad they haven't learned from it.
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On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore.
Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc.
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Koreans are not alone, are these people getting paid?
Germany TaKeTV
Poland ESL Poland
Poland EmStudio
Russia StarLadder
France O'gamingTV
Mexico HorussTV
Brazil DeathzoneTV
Taiwan BlizzardZHTW
South Korea CranKTV
China NetEase Blizzard CN Official
China SCBoy
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On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis.
I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help
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On October 29 2018 00:23 Geo.Rion wrote:
I totally get they want Korean coverage, it is normal however I quietly dare to mention 2 things:
A) Korean teens should be encouraged to play/watch e sports in English, because that teaches them the most important international language, and things like these help a lot more than textbooks and such. The English knowledge of the average Korean youth is shamefully bad, for a nation as advanced as that. And you cant really say it's cultural, Japanese youth speak decent English compared to Koreans, as far as i can tell.
B) For the longest time we were watching Korean VODs and be super-excited about it, with no chance of an official English cover on the horizon. Then a few fairly bad English casters appeared who recasted korean VODs. FFs, I remember wacthing a VOD from a guy who was casting it from his car, parked in front of the university's library to leech wifi, and I watched it cuz that was the only English cover.
User was warned for this post
Are you kidding me? They literally invented mainstream e-sport and still represent the vast majority of RTS E-sport.
Wake up dude
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There's still time to invite and host caster Park and two others over for the Blizzcon round of 8. I hope Blizzard does this, realizing that people are more important than would seem. You can run a company with profit without profiting in every subunit of a company.
BTW there are alot of Korean Americans outraged right now over Warner Media closing the (very popular) Korea-English small-screen streaming service DramaFever following the merger with ATT. Why did they do that when it was profitable? Because they wanted to consolidate the programming expertise to launch their new service next year.
There are also a lot of Koreans outraged at the USA refusing to conduct the joint military operations this winter.
In summary, this is an icy time and I think that the best PR would be to invite caster Park and crew over for the Ro8.
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On October 29 2018 02:53 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
Koreans are not alone, are these people getting paid?
Germany TaKeTV
Poland ESL Poland
Poland EmStudio
Russia StarLadder
France O'gamingTV
Mexico HorussTV
Brazil DeathzoneTV
Taiwan BlizzardZHTW
South Korea CranKTV
China NetEase Blizzard CN Official
China SCBoy
This does not compare. None of these countires have a player who is going to be the winner of this year's WCS Global Finals. Each of these countries has good high-profile events supported by Blizzard at least in part.
Poland gets IEM Katovice
China has WESG
France has Nationwars
Mexico has Copa America
etc.
I'm not saying this is a replacement, but look: chances are, 75% of the ppl in the Blizzcon RO8 are Korean. Therefore, you should have someone casting in Korean, no?
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On October 29 2018 02:53 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
Koreans are not alone, are these people getting paid?
Germany TaKeTV
Poland ESL Poland
Poland EmStudio
Russia StarLadder
France O'gamingTV
Mexico HorussTV
Brazil DeathzoneTV
Taiwan BlizzardZHTW
South Korea CranKTV
China NetEase Blizzard CN Official
China SCBoy
Do you seriously not think South Korea has a historically distinct role in Starcraft that befits their own stream? It's awful for the game if we lose the South Korean scene as a distinct and privileged space. It's brought us practically all of the best players of our game, the best set of institutions, the most important tournament. Blizzard divesting from them is shameful and an awful sign for the future of our game.
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On October 29 2018 03:35 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:53 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
Koreans are not alone, are these people getting paid?
Germany TaKeTV
Poland ESL Poland
Poland EmStudio
Russia StarLadder
France O'gamingTV
Mexico HorussTV
Brazil DeathzoneTV
Taiwan BlizzardZHTW
South Korea CranKTV
China NetEase Blizzard CN Official
China SCBoy This does not compare. None of these countires have a player who is going to be the winner of this year's WCS Global Finals. Each of these countries has good high-profile events supported by Blizzard at least in part. Poland gets IEM Katovice China has WESG France has Nationwars Mexico has Copa America etc. I'm not saying this is a replacement, but look: chances are, 75% of the ppl in the Blizzcon RO8 are Korean. Therefore, you should have someone casting in Korean, no?
Comparatively fair enough. I was of emphasising, the broad range of talent that still commits time, and blizzard profits, no kick back to the small guys, and the lack of respect they give them as well.
I agree with you, certainly in regards to the talent pool being Korean. It's obvious, Korean commentary should be contracted. There are post game commentary interviews with translation, just for English speakers.. It's a blatant error of blizzards caliber, its the type of company to go ahead and drop a ball like this. They've done questionable things for years, and whatever ripples are made simmer -till the next event. It's funny how quick this thing will blow over, maybe an apology or a commitment to provide talent next year, or some reconciliation comes about, but not before blizzard puts on the deer in the head lights face and generate a public response.
dust in the wind ;/
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On October 29 2018 03:47 Oreo7 wrote:
Do you seriously not think .
hold your salt, and get off a the trashing bandwagon. I was pointing out how much talent outside the contracted talent pool, contributes to Blizzard and doesnt get paid.
DO YOU SERIOUSLY NOT THINK?.
of course they should have been with this event. ffs, tasteless and artosis cast korean events for english people.
Blizzard, reciprocate.
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On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc.
Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with?
GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart.
So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train.
As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments.
Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS.
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I have not read the whole thread... But an argument for not having a high value Korean stream is that the games usually start after midnight in Korea.
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On October 29 2018 04:10 MrWayne wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc. Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with? GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart. So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train. As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments. Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS.
You didn't get the memo.
Blizzard are ruining everything and hate the koreans. Despite the fact that they are paying for the entire thing with god knows what return.
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On October 29 2018 03:35 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:53 I wasbanned fromthis wrote:
Koreans are not alone, are these people getting paid?
Germany TaKeTV
Poland ESL Poland
Poland EmStudio
Russia StarLadder
France O'gamingTV
Mexico HorussTV
Brazil DeathzoneTV
Taiwan BlizzardZHTW
South Korea CranKTV
China NetEase Blizzard CN Official
China SCBoy This does not compare. None of these countires have a player who is going to be the winner of this year's WCS Global Finals. Each of these countries has good high-profile events supported by Blizzard at least in part. Poland gets IEM Katovice China has WESG France has Nationwars Mexico has Copa America etc. I'm not saying this is a replacement, but look: chances are, 75% of the ppl in the Blizzcon RO8 are Korean. Therefore, you should have someone casting in Korean, no?
Shouldn't be viewers per country/language be the much more important stat for Blizzard in this regard?
When I look at the numbers the korean stream has currently 2300 viewers, both the french stream (4500) and the russian stream (5700) have much more viewers than the korean one. That's at least an argument for Blizzards decision.
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On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests.
English is not that hard language at all.
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On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all.
It depends on your native tongue.....
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On October 29 2018 05:00 Brutaxilos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all. It depends on your native tongue.....
Finnish is Uralic language.
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On October 29 2018 05:00 Brutaxilos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all. It depends on your native tongue.....
Not really. Ofcourse it will be alot harder for a Korean than for a french guy to learn english. But for the type of language that english is, it really is a quite easy to learn language - at least on a basic level.
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On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all.
This doesn't even make sense, which totally disproves your point. As a sentence it is in coherent and lacks context. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
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On October 29 2018 05:08 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 05:00 Brutaxilos wrote:On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all. It depends on your native tongue..... Finnish is Uralic language.
Yeah Finnish and Hungarian are not Indo-European, but most of Europe still is.
English is definitely one of the easiest language in the world, but still it's COMPLETELY different from East-Aisan languages, and there is hardly any English-speaking environment there either.
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Twitch is not even a sponsor. So what the actual duck?
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On October 29 2018 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 04:10 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc. Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with? GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart. So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train. As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments. Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS. You didn't get the memo. Blizzard are ruining everything and hate the koreans. Despite the fact that they are paying for the entire thing with god knows what return.
Well, first and foremost, it's Blizzard's product and all events where their games are played are advertisement for their respective product, BlizzCon is a HUGE advertisement event for their brands and IPs, so I don't see why they shouldn't pay for that.
Having the community partly finance the events is just them cutting on the cost and while I can see the win-win-situation, this simply does not happen in 'real' sports, as a sport isn't someone's IP.
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On October 29 2018 05:08 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 05:00 Brutaxilos wrote:On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all. It depends on your native tongue..... Finnish is Uralic language.
That still doesn't really matter. Even in different language families, some languages still share similar grammar structure/honorifics etc. (For example, Basque has the similar grammar structure to Japanese and Korean despite being completely unrelated). Maybe English was easy for you to learn because you just have a better affinity for picking up new languages. Maybe it's because there are still some similarities (non-vocabulary) between English and Finnish. But you can't judge people from another background for not learning a language as well as you can.
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On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests.
Eh, most people in East-Asia do learn english at a very high level, however their system doesn't have any focus on conversational skills or situational English. Practice is important.
I do think they deserve localized content, though. Those scenes are a big part of this game.
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On October 29 2018 05:15 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On October 29 2018 04:10 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc. Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with? GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart. So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train. As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments. Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS. You didn't get the memo. Blizzard are ruining everything and hate the koreans. Despite the fact that they are paying for the entire thing with god knows what return. Well, first and foremost, it's Blizzard's product and all events where their games are played are advertisement for their respective product, BlizzCon is a HUGE advertisement event for their brands and IPs, so I don't see why they shouldn't pay for that. Having the community partly finance the events is just them cutting on the cost and while I can see the win-win-situation, this simply does not happen in 'real' sports, as a sport isn't someone's IP.
Most of e-sport doesn't work that way too.
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On October 29 2018 05:20 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. Eh, most people in East-Asia do learn english at a very high level, however their system doesn't have any focus on conversational skills or situational English. Practice is important. I do think they deserve localized content, though. Those scenes are a big part of this game.
The biggest difference between East Asia and Europe is that in Europe, English is sort of a Lingua Franca. Almost everyone (at least in Western Europe) is expected to at least speak a little bit of English. In Asia, a lot of the younger population learned English in school, but never really "need" to learn to speak it in an actual conversation with foreigners. They can still get by their entire lives never needing to learn English.
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On October 29 2018 05:11 Ve5pa wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 04:58 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On October 29 2018 01:40 yht9657 wrote:
LOLed at those West-elitists who believe everyone in East Asia should just git gud on English.
It' s 1000 times easier for a European to learn English than a East-Asian, Chinese, Korean and Japanese have a compeletely different structure than Indo-European languages. East-Asian children already have to suffer the most difficult education and competition in the world while forced to learn a completely foreign language at the same time. Maybe you can try imagine being forced to learn Korean or Chinese from elementary school and see how good you can be at it?
Fair enough. Now I feel like a fool buying those freaking warchests. English is not that hard language at all. This doesn't even make sense, which totally disproves your point. As a sentence it is in coherent and lacks context. Not to mention it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Its just response to what I quoted. "It' s 1000 times easier for a European"
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On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
I think it would be great for the koreans to have a korean caster team.
but on the other hand why cant the korean watch the english stream?
english is THE language all over the world.
there are players and spectators from all over the world whose first language isnt english too.
im from germany and i dont demand a german stream.
the absolute state of this comment, having commentary in your own language and with familiar faces of your local community is the most basic thing one could ask for
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no matter what you say it is so true that Koreans are in disadvantage in sc2 scene for sure. region lock is unfair for Koreans for going blizzcon for $280K !!
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On October 29 2018 05:15 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On October 29 2018 04:10 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc. Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with? GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart. So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train. As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments. Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS. You didn't get the memo. Blizzard are ruining everything and hate the koreans. Despite the fact that they are paying for the entire thing with god knows what return. Well, first and foremost, it's Blizzard's product and all events where their games are played are advertisement for their respective product, BlizzCon is a HUGE advertisement event for their brands and IPs, so I don't see why they shouldn't pay for that. Having the community partly finance the events is just them cutting on the cost and while I can see the win-win-situation, this simply does not happen in 'real' sports, as a sport isn't someone's IP.
And where does the evil korean hating racist Blizzard fit in that picture ? This entire thing exists only because Blizzard still thinks that SC2 has any value(more sentimental than anything else). These progamers have a cereer only because a company decided to spend its marketing budget on esports and not on something else. As soon as they cut the life support, this esport scene will collapse.
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Yeah, this seems like the left hand not talking to the right hand at Blizzard, not Blizzard spiking Koreans.
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On October 29 2018 06:51 veniss wrote:
Yeah, this seems like the left hand not talking to the right hand at Blizzard, not Blizzard spiking Koreans.
I mean, they did drop the ball with the lack of GSL commentators. That was a pretty big mistake. However, they did include a Korean commentator (regardless of amateur or professional). Obviously, people wanted professional commentators, but it's not like Blizzard gave them absolutely zero coverage. So it is rather weird when people start pulling the "Blizzard hates Korean Starcraft and wants only foreigners to win" when they're funding like most of the Korean scene.
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On October 29 2018 06:29 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 05:15 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On October 29 2018 04:10 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc. Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with? GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart. So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train. As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments. Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS. You didn't get the memo. Blizzard are ruining everything and hate the koreans. Despite the fact that they are paying for the entire thing with god knows what return. Well, first and foremost, it's Blizzard's product and all events where their games are played are advertisement for their respective product, BlizzCon is a HUGE advertisement event for their brands and IPs, so I don't see why they shouldn't pay for that. Having the community partly finance the events is just them cutting on the cost and while I can see the win-win-situation, this simply does not happen in 'real' sports, as a sport isn't someone's IP. And where does the evil korean hating racist Blizzard fit in that picture ? This entire thing exists only because Blizzard still thinks that SC2 has any value(more sentimental than anything else). These progamers have a cereer only because a company decided to spend its marketing budget on esports and not on something else. As soon as they cut the life support, this esport scene will collapse.
Well, aside from still providing funds for GSL, massive mismanagement of the Korean scene over the lifespan of SC2 and the whole region lock thing clearly indicates that Blizzard thinks reaching out to the foreign market will benefit them more than catering towards the Korean playerbase.
And I never said that they are evil or racist, it's just that they seemingly are still somewhat invested in Korean StarCraft because a lot of foreign fans/viewers still deem the Koreans the overall best players (and rightfully so, IMO).
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Thats just ridiculous. We have 10+ english caster/host/talent which half of them isnt really needed. How hard can it be to get a host and two decent korean casters, even if you have to use not official GSL ones?
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This seems dumb. Korea is important in terms of nurturing a talent pool. SC's mindshare matters for the game's health.
That said We're getting an ASL KSL show match so I did really want that.
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On October 29 2018 06:29 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 05:15 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 04:57 Pr0wler wrote:On October 29 2018 04:10 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:33 Rodya wrote:On October 29 2018 02:22 MrWayne wrote:On October 29 2018 02:09 narusensei22 wrote:
Everything is becoming disadvantage for Koreans in sc2 Compared to who? Compared to Germans, Poles or Chinese? Things aren't becoming disadvantages for koreans, they just losing their advantage. Koreans got their advantage in SC:BW because the public interest was there, the same thing just isn't true for Sc2, at least not anymore. Yeah, everyone country is region locked. You don't see Germans competing in Polish tournaments - do you? Americans can't play in Korean tournaments, etc. Is the region lock really the only counter argument you could come up with? GSL is structured in a way that requires to basically live a few weeks in korea if you want to play in it and even the GSL super tournament requires foreigners to book two fleights to korea or live there for a bit because the offline qualifier and the actual event are so far apart. So as a korean you can compete for roughly 530000$ with everyone else who lives in korea. You can live at home and get to those tournaments by car, bus or train. As a foreigner you have to move to a country with a very different language and culture than your own or you compete in the WCS Circuit with everyone else around the globe where you have to fly around the globe and book hotels for several days to attend in the Circuit tournaments. Alone the fact that WCS is split into korea and Circuit should indicate to you that Blizzard doesn't treat every country equally. And yes I say Blizzard because Blizzard is the main sponsor for both WCS korea and WCS. You didn't get the memo. Blizzard are ruining everything and hate the koreans. Despite the fact that they are paying for the entire thing with god knows what return. Well, first and foremost, it's Blizzard's product and all events where their games are played are advertisement for their respective product, BlizzCon is a HUGE advertisement event for their brands and IPs, so I don't see why they shouldn't pay for that. Having the community partly finance the events is just them cutting on the cost and while I can see the win-win-situation, this simply does not happen in 'real' sports, as a sport isn't someone's IP. And where does the evil korean hating racist Blizzard fit in that picture ? This entire thing exists only because Blizzard still thinks that SC2 has any value(more sentimental than anything else). These progamers have a cereer only because a company decided to spend its marketing budget on esports and not on something else. As soon as they cut the life support, this esport scene will collapse.
it will decline; it won't completely collapse. There are many grassroots events still running that do not rely on Blizzard funding. Contrast that with OWL. Once Blizzard stops funding OWL then OW esports is dead.
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too onsided, GSL provides exceptional translation for foreigners and in return...... wow
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I definitely think it would be awesome to have paid Korean commentary, although knowing that hindsight is 20/20, I wonder if we're being fair to Blizzard, and if we can't be more constructive.
Has there been paid Korean commentary in any years past? Or is this the first time someone has raised the issue.
Did someone ask Blizzard for paid Korean commentary, and they said no?
Are we talking about paying the Korean GSL casters to do a homebrew cast? Did they even express interest in doing this?
To do it at Blizzcon, maybe the added production complexity is unfeasible. Maybe someone with more experience than me can chime in here. As with everything Blizzcon, it's more likely a logistics/production issue than a money issue. They spend crazy amounts of money for an event that seems crazy difficult to pull off. They have a dedicated Blizzcon team that works year-around on the event – it is more complicated than we know.
Maybe this is simply an oversight by Blizzard, but maybe not, and I think these are important questions. 
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There is more to the story here. Everyone scrutinizing Blizzard and getting all worked up. Blizzard hasn't released a statement, so this is all based on what JYP said.
Before you crap on Blizzard for how they handled this, be happy we even have SC2 still. No need biting the hand that feeds you.
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Blizzard needs to understand that without Korean SC2, there would be no foreign scene either. The main storyline of SC2 is foreigners vs Koreans and who can rise to the challenge.
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On October 29 2018 11:08 EvanC wrote:
Blizzard needs to understand that without Korean SC2, there would be no foreign scene either. The main storyline of SC2 is foreigners vs Koreans and who can rise to the challenge.
The current storyline of foreigner vs Koreans would not exist, but there would definitely be a foreign scene. Back in 2010, most of the non-Korean tournaments featured no Koreans. In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia.
And if you mean now, there would be no foreign scene without a Korean scene, I would heavily disagree. the WCS storylines can continue, except it would be foreigner vs foreigners rather than foreigners vs Koreans. Also, don't forget that Blizzard is funding most of the Korean scene, so they are already aware of the importance of the Korean scene.
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On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 11:08 EvanC wrote:
Blizzard needs to understand that without Korean SC2, there would be no foreign scene either. The main storyline of SC2 is foreigners vs Koreans and who can rise to the challenge. The current storyline of foreigner vs Koreans would not exist, but there would definitely be a foreign scene. Back in 2010, most of the non-Korean tournaments featured no Koreans. In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia. And if you mean now, there would be no foreign scene without a Korean scene, I would heavily disagree. the WCS storylines can continue, except it would be foreigner vs foreigners rather than foreigners vs Koreans. Also, don't forget that Blizzard is funding most of the Korean scene, so they are already aware of the importance of the Korean scene.
SC2 was specifically designed and advertised to be esports and where does that come from? Right, it all stems from BW‘s history, and ALL of that came from Korea, how one can neglect that is just beyond me...
And yes, they are funding most of the scene, or, better put, the tiny core that’s left of it and Blizzard had its fair share in crippling it.
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On October 29 2018 12:58 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:On October 29 2018 11:08 EvanC wrote:
Blizzard needs to understand that without Korean SC2, there would be no foreign scene either. The main storyline of SC2 is foreigners vs Koreans and who can rise to the challenge. The current storyline of foreigner vs Koreans would not exist, but there would definitely be a foreign scene. Back in 2010, most of the non-Korean tournaments featured no Koreans. In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia. And if you mean now, there would be no foreign scene without a Korean scene, I would heavily disagree. the WCS storylines can continue, except it would be foreigner vs foreigners rather than foreigners vs Koreans. Also, don't forget that Blizzard is funding most of the Korean scene, so they are already aware of the importance of the Korean scene. SC2 was specifically designed and advertised to be esports and where does that come from? Right, it all stems from BW‘s history, and ALL of that came from Korea, how one can neglect that is just beyond me... And yes, they are funding most of the scene, or, better put, the tiny core that’s left of it and Blizzard had its fair share in crippling it.
The quote I am responding to specifically mentioned SC2 Korean Starcraft, so Broodwar really has no bearing on it.
For sure, Blizzard has had their share of mismanagement of the esports scene. I think one of them is not creating leagues like it had with HotS and OW.
But let's not forget the Korean share in crippling the scene. The mass amount of Koreans competing in every premier tournament from 2011-2015 certainly had a very large role in reducing the scene to what it is now. The Korean lack of interest in SC2 certainly didn't help the Korean scene, and the Life scandal plus the Sbenu scandal certainly didn't do any favours for the Korean scene.
Did Blizzard have its share of mismanagement? For sure. Its squabble with KeSPA did no one any favours. However, the Korean scene itself has arguably had an equally large share in crippling itself.
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On October 29 2018 13:17 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 12:58 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:On October 29 2018 11:08 EvanC wrote:
Blizzard needs to understand that without Korean SC2, there would be no foreign scene either. The main storyline of SC2 is foreigners vs Koreans and who can rise to the challenge. The current storyline of foreigner vs Koreans would not exist, but there would definitely be a foreign scene. Back in 2010, most of the non-Korean tournaments featured no Koreans. In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia. And if you mean now, there would be no foreign scene without a Korean scene, I would heavily disagree. the WCS storylines can continue, except it would be foreigner vs foreigners rather than foreigners vs Koreans. Also, don't forget that Blizzard is funding most of the Korean scene, so they are already aware of the importance of the Korean scene. SC2 was specifically designed and advertised to be esports and where does that come from? Right, it all stems from BW‘s history, and ALL of that came from Korea, how one can neglect that is just beyond me... And yes, they are funding most of the scene, or, better put, the tiny core that’s left of it and Blizzard had its fair share in crippling it. The quote I am responding to specifically mentioned SC2 Korean Starcraft, so Broodwar really has no bearing on it. For sure, Blizzard has had their share of mismanagement of the esports scene. I think one of them is not creating leagues like it had with HotS and OW. But let's not forget the Korean share in crippling the scene. The mass amount of Koreans competing in every premier tournament from 2011-2015 certainly had a very large role in reducing the scene to what it is now. The Korean lack of interest in SC2 certainly didn't help the Korean scene, and the Life scandal plus the Sbenu scandal certainly didn't do any favours for the Korean scene. Did Blizzard have its share of mismanagement? For sure. Its squabble with KeSPA did no one any favours. However, the Korean scene itself has arguably had an equally large share in crippling itself.
Matchfixing was the last nail in the coffin, though, the lack of interest had more to do with the always online approach, which resulted in limiting the popularity in PC bangs right from the start.
The overwhelming presence of Koreans in earlier international events is something I, personally, never had a problem with, as I prefer to see the best players and with the established team infrastructure they just had an immense edge over the international competition. And while I can acknowledge that this drove people off, I again don‘t see the Koreans at fault here, but Blizzard for not having done their homework on how to prevent this.
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On October 29 2018 14:13 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 13:17 FrkFrJss wrote:On October 29 2018 12:58 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:On October 29 2018 11:08 EvanC wrote:
Blizzard needs to understand that without Korean SC2, there would be no foreign scene either. The main storyline of SC2 is foreigners vs Koreans and who can rise to the challenge. The current storyline of foreigner vs Koreans would not exist, but there would definitely be a foreign scene. Back in 2010, most of the non-Korean tournaments featured no Koreans. In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia. And if you mean now, there would be no foreign scene without a Korean scene, I would heavily disagree. the WCS storylines can continue, except it would be foreigner vs foreigners rather than foreigners vs Koreans. Also, don't forget that Blizzard is funding most of the Korean scene, so they are already aware of the importance of the Korean scene. SC2 was specifically designed and advertised to be esports and where does that come from? Right, it all stems from BW‘s history, and ALL of that came from Korea, how one can neglect that is just beyond me... And yes, they are funding most of the scene, or, better put, the tiny core that’s left of it and Blizzard had its fair share in crippling it. The quote I am responding to specifically mentioned SC2 Korean Starcraft, so Broodwar really has no bearing on it. For sure, Blizzard has had their share of mismanagement of the esports scene. I think one of them is not creating leagues like it had with HotS and OW. But let's not forget the Korean share in crippling the scene. The mass amount of Koreans competing in every premier tournament from 2011-2015 certainly had a very large role in reducing the scene to what it is now. The Korean lack of interest in SC2 certainly didn't help the Korean scene, and the Life scandal plus the Sbenu scandal certainly didn't do any favours for the Korean scene. Did Blizzard have its share of mismanagement? For sure. Its squabble with KeSPA did no one any favours. However, the Korean scene itself has arguably had an equally large share in crippling itself. Matchfixing was the last nail in the coffin, though, the lack of interest had more to do with the always online approach, which resulted in limiting the popularity in PC bangs right from the start. The overwhelming presence of Koreans in earlier international events is something I, personally, never had a problem with, as I prefer to see the best players and with the established team infrastructure they just had an immense edge over the international competition. And while I can acknowledge that this drove people off, I again don‘t see the Koreans at fault here, but Blizzard for not having done their homework on how to prevent this.
Yes, the biggest problem of SC2 in Korea was that it was never as popular. People grew up with BW, but at the time that SC2 released, fewer people had grown up with SC2, which is why a lot of the pros were former BW players.
See I never had a problem with Koreans playing in WCS either. I was very disappointed in 2015 when I heard that very few Koreans would be able to participate in the 2015 WCS. However, I have come to see that see the best players play is not worth the destruction of a particular scene. In watching the foreigners, I have come to greatly appreciate their story lines.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having the best players compete, but it has to be done in the correct way. So yes, I don't think you can necessarily blame the Koreans per se, but it is an undeniable truth that Koreans in all premier tournaments certainly shrunk the foreign scenes and markets. I agree that Blizzard not creating separated leagues to begin with was a major error that they corrected in both future esports. HotS has separate regions, and so does Overwatch. Perhaps one cannot fault the Korean players specifically for causing the fall of the foreign scene, but I think their participation is intertwined with Blizzard's mismanagement. Or in other words, without Koreans coming to all premier tournaments, there would be no need for region lock.
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First place and Second place prizemoney is $280,000 and $142,000 respectively. Slice a little from them (maybe 20k and 10k respectively) and use it fund korean commentary?? Lols, doesn't take a genius...
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I am really shocked this is an issue at all, regardless of which side is actually at fault here, since the warchest funding that exceeded the amount dedicated to the prizepool was meant to go to production.
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Blizzard only looks where the money is. Sc2 is not popular in KR while it still is in the rest of the world, so they just pretty much ignored KR. Is it the right thing to do? Of course not, but this is the Blizzard today. Despite what they claimed otherwise, all those lootboxes and warchests are all about increasing profits and not "trying to help the community". They have no excuse in not providing KR cast since this is their biggest event of the year with highest production values. This is a conscious decision by Blizzard because they view KR at the very bottom of priorities.
Riot has both English and Korean casts for their World Championships, so why can't Blizzard?
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Blizzard is treating the Korean community like an ex-girlfriend. They broke up in 2016 after LotV was released, moved back to America, and are now telling the world how much they still love and appreciate them while frustrating the relationship through their actions.
Seriously though, imagine being a Korean who bought the warchest to support the scene you have left, and then hearing that you're not even getting the group of casters you're familiar with from the only 5-6 tournaments that feature Koreans. Blizzcon should be a celebration of Starcraft, with both the best players and casters of the year.
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Now you know how we feel when Blizzard steals Tastosis right before the ASL finals.
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Poland3748 Posts
On October 29 2018 16:05 ilikeredheads wrote:
Blizzard only looks where the money is. Sc2 is not popular in KR while it still is in the rest of the world, so they just pretty much ignored KR. Is it the right thing to do? Of course not
Are you sure it's "of course not"?
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Totally unacceptable. Blizzard needs to be PUNISHED for this...
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Let's ignore the country that made our strategy games virtually a national sport for over a decade...good call Blizz.
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On October 29 2018 17:12 zerglingling wrote:
Now you know how we feel when Blizzard steals Tastosis right before the ASL finals.
Pretty sure that's not the same thing.
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In these specific circumstances, the Korean SCII community deserves a dedicated broadcast with reasonable production value.
On principle though, I'm on board with the idea that Asian video game communities should be encouraged to integrate into the international English speaking scene. If they're lacking a baseline because of a lesser focus on English in their country's educational system, then it's not their fault. Almost everyone I know however, gained most of their English skills through their interest in international entertainment media and web sites, not the school system. And it can't be within a Korean person's own interest to limit their exposure to films, music and whatnot to their own domestic productions.
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China564 Posts
Maybe Blz want to throw Korea SC2 away.
Fxxking Mike Morhine.
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Totally Agree with TS.
Also super unhappy with English cast too. Tod casting SC2? He is not into starcraft for years already. This Maynard guy appeared at the beginning of the year and showed himself quite good, however now he looked like, he didnt spent much time following the scene. Casters couldnt oversee builds and were missjudging plays, like TY's proxies for example: it's normal meta for Terrans to proxy now, like Maru does almost every game. And we heard something like casters disappointed by player and strategies. InControl is funny, but mostly speaking not about the game, Kaelaris is from hots basically. Strange line-up of casters to my mind. Also lack of Korean cast is a hit to Korean scene. What would be with Starcraft without Korea?
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Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
For the first time in years we have a bit of a resurgency, with foreigners getting as close as they've ever been to Korean-level players and renewed interest in competitive SC2, and THIS is what they're doing??
What-the-actual-fuck, Blizzard?!?
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On October 29 2018 21:14 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
I mean, I know that everybody is irritated about the situation, but I don't see what it has to do with China specifically.
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There's no excuse for that blizzard... id call it greed but its more just stupidity
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On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia.
The Korean  Silver did not play SC2, the Silver you're talking about is actually Canadian.
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On October 29 2018 21:25 JustPassingBy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 21:14 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
I mean, I know that everybody is irritated about the situation, but I don't see what it has to do with China specifically.
Afaik EU has the biggest playerbase.
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Wonder how much they paid tastetosis to not have budget for Korean casters.
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On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help
What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though!
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On October 29 2018 23:02 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 21:25 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 29 2018 21:14 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
I mean, I know that everybody is irritated about the situation, but I don't see what it has to do with China specifically. Afaik EU has the biggest playerbase.
when you compare a continent to a country... sure
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Given the structure of WCS with half of it being Korean tournaments, having no Korean casters live at the global finals seems like a really weird/bad decision. Seems pretty disrespectful tbh.
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On October 29 2018 22:42 rotta wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia.
The Korean Silver did not play SC2, the Silver you're talking about is actually Canadian.
It could be a flag typo, but in HuK's first win, a Korean named Silver is listed as playing. Also, I meant in SC2 liquipedia and not BW.
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Hopefully this doesn't get derailed into a debate about unconscious racism.
This whole not having Korean commentators is a real issue and anyone who is a true fan of the game should be mortified. The amount of english talent for this event is unprecedented and complete overkill. As much as I like listening to the "a foreigner could win" circle jerk, I think its evident that the quantity of same language commentators doesn't increase the quality of the stream.
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On October 30 2018 06:15 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 23:02 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 21:25 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 29 2018 21:14 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
I mean, I know that everybody is irritated about the situation, but I don't see what it has to do with China specifically. Afaik EU has the biggest playerbase. when you compare a continent to a country... sure
I'm just looking at the different servers we got and that's what it is. But nice cleverdicking, as usual.
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On October 30 2018 11:59 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 22:42 rotta wrote:On October 29 2018 11:49 FrkFrJss wrote:
In fact, the first win by HuK against Kiwikaki featured one Korean, Silver, who is so unknown that I can't actually find a Korean Silver in liquipedia.
The Korean Silver did not play SC2, the Silver you're talking about is actually Canadian. It could be a flag typo, but in HuK's first win, a Korean named Silver is listed as playing. Also, I meant in SC2 liquipedia and not BW.
Yeah his race is wrong too, if you scroll down you can see it's fixed in the Losers Bracket.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 30 2018 06:15 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 23:02 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 21:25 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 29 2018 21:14 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
I mean, I know that everybody is irritated about the situation, but I don't see what it has to do with China specifically. Afaik EU has the biggest playerbase. when you compare a continent to a country... sure
EU is not a country 
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So there is something like 10 English casters, half of which don't even follow SC2 anymore, whilst Korea which has half the players gets no real support?
I don't really understand the reason behind this except due to utter incompetence. Only thing I can think of is that it turns out that NA + EU are buying all the warchests and korea buy none, so they are trying to kill the korean scene, so hopefully more EU and NA buys more warchests as a side effect.
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On October 30 2018 19:54 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2018 06:15 Charoisaur wrote:On October 29 2018 23:02 Creager wrote:On October 29 2018 21:25 JustPassingBy wrote:On October 29 2018 21:14 waiting2Bbanned wrote:
Is Blizzard purposely trying to bury SC by alienating their biggest player & fan-base??
I mean, I know that everybody is irritated about the situation, but I don't see what it has to do with China specifically. Afaik EU has the biggest playerbase. when you compare a continent to a country... sure EU is not a country
So Korea is a continent ?
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Wow, and I thought the EN production was bad. At least we had casters...
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On October 31 2018 02:25 Acrofales wrote:
Wow, and I thought the EN production was bad. At least we had casters...
We sure did...
No wonder there was nothing left for KR.
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Disappointed that the Korean audience isn't getting the love that foreign fans do for Afreeca/GSL tournaments. Hesitant to say much more because there's not a whole lot more of information on the subject.
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Gross situation.
I blame the blizz CEO.
It’s the Brak show now.
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Yeah I was wondering the same when I saw how many casters we have. Not just because has no casters but because I thinkt its ridiculous that we have 8 (7 without nathan) casters for 16 players.
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It's a real shame that the community that built the foundations of SC2 isn't given a better Blizzcon. I don't understand wht, has anyone from Blizzard commented on this? Especially when the English cast gets eight casters. I don't mind some variety, but four would be fine. Casters that don't do SC2 outside of Blizzcon could've been replaced by casters that normally do.
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On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though!
How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne.
Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust.
Greatest RTS player of all time couldn't dominate SC2 which is an RTS. Somethings wrong with the statement Either SC2 isn't an RTS or ...
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On October 31 2018 21:57 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Greatest RTS player of all time couldn't dominate SC2 which is an RTS. Somethings wrong with the statement Either SC2 isn't an RTS or ...
Last I checked, Flash is an Adobe macromedia player, not an RTS player.
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United States33175 Posts
On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust.
you can't use "logically" in place of "in my opinion," m8
gonna have to handing out some warnings if you keep presenting what are very clearly subjective opinions as fact.
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On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit).I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust.
Link to that please, that can´t be true.
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https://twitter.com/esportstarcraft/status/1057830987936059392?s=21
We were overwhelmed by the passion from the Korean StarCraft community for the #WCS Global Finals, and have worked alongside LuciaTV to improve the broadcast.
Now to be held in VSL studio w/ GoliathMonster, Ragnarok, MC & Leenock; all community casters helping SC2 grow in Korea
Looks like a step in the right direction. Still would have been nice if they could have worked something out with the professional Korean casting team, but it's too late for that now.
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On October 28 2018 18:40 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 18:38 DarkGamer wrote:
english is THE language all over the world.
it isn't
No but it is basically the trade language, I get what he is saying even if I do believe koreans should get their own casting!
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MC and Leenock cast you say? Might watch some of that instead :p
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Yeah, when I tuned in on the english stream, the one thing i was thinking to myself... well, they sure had a lot of casters! Didn't realise that it was at the expense of korean ones...
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On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust.
Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link?
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you guys are quite silly to say they are funding foreign commentary over korean because of warchest support.
it takes a special type of dense for that to be the only reason.
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On October 28 2018 17:51 Waxangel wrote:GSL commentator JYP told TeamLiquid.net that "...we were contacted before BlizzCon. Were were told that there was no separate budget for production or appearance fees. AfreecaTV would have been able to provide production/talent appearance support. Howevevr, [WCS at BlizzCon] was an exclusive Twitch stream, so we were unable to."
I'm a bit confused by this. Does that mean the Afreeca team can't participate because of lack of funding or because they can't be part of a Twitch-exclusive event?
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On November 01 2018 16:15 Zephyp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2018 17:51 Waxangel wrote:GSL commentator JYP told TeamLiquid.net that "...we were contacted before BlizzCon. Were were told that there was no separate budget for production or appearance fees. AfreecaTV would have been able to provide production/talent appearance support. Howevevr, [WCS at BlizzCon] was an exclusive Twitch stream, so we were unable to." I'm a bit confused by this. Does that mean the Afreeca team can't participate because of lack of funding or because they can't be part of a Twitch-exclusive event?
As far as I understand: Blizzard made a twitch-exclusive deal for Blizz-SC2 events years ago. It also mismanaged to fund a korean cast but afreeca would've jumped in funding their casters by themselves. But afreeca would obviously only do this if they could stream it via their own streaming network afreeca.tv. But they can't because of the twitch-exclusiveness of Blizzcon.
I don't blame Blizzard for the twitch-exclusiveness. Such a situation hardly could've been foreseen back then, when afreeca was a minor player. But not planning for a public korean cast and then being unable to react quickly and fly two casters in ... that's sad.
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On November 01 2018 12:47 Kalera wrote:https://twitter.com/esportstarcraft/status/1057830987936059392?s=21Show nested quote +We were overwhelmed by the passion from the Korean StarCraft community for the #WCS Global Finals, and have worked alongside LuciaTV to improve the broadcast.
Now to be held in VSL studio w/ GoliathMonster, Ragnarok, MC & Leenock; all community casters helping SC2 grow in Korea Looks like a step in the right direction. Still would have been nice if they could have worked something out with the professional Korean casting team, but it's too late for that now.
It's not perfect, but they were never gonna fly in the casters last minute or fix the twitch vs afreeca thing on the spot.
That they are at least acknowledging it and improved something is a start.
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On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link?
He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series:
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/
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On November 01 2018 18:06 sunnyshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link? He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/
Was incontrol really claiming there are less Koreans interested in the wcs signature series than there are Italians? Italians who don't speak English, that is, to keep in line with the "well, your language doesn't matter, learn English" theme that incontrol is on.
Anyway, glad Blizzard stepped in and managed to find something of a solution for the WCS cast. Still pretty sad that this was a last minute rush job, but better than no job at all. And MC casting? I'm a bit jealous now. I'd trade about 7 of our English casters for having MC :D
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On November 01 2018 18:38 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2018 18:06 sunnyshine wrote:On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link? He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/ Was incontrol really claiming there are less Koreans interested in the wcs signature series than there are Italians? Italians who don't speak English, that is, to keep in line with the "well, your language doesn't matter, learn English" theme that incontrol is on. Anyway, glad Blizzard stepped in and managed to find something of a solution for the WCS cast. Still pretty sad that this was a last minute rush job, but better than no job at all. And MC casting? I'm a bit jealous now. I'd trade about 7 of our English casters for having MC :D
I'd trade the whole English production if MC is casting the event!
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On November 01 2018 18:38 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2018 18:06 sunnyshine wrote:On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link? He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/ Was incontrol really claiming there are less Koreans interested in the wcs signature series than there are Italians? Italians who don't speak English, that is, to keep in line with the "well, your language doesn't matter, learn English" theme that incontrol is on.
He probably just didn't know there were other language (Italian) subtitles.
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At the end of the day, I just don't get what Blizzard's game here is. The whole Blizzcon is essentially advertisement for Blizzard and their products. I don't believe they are actually making money on the Blizzcon SC2 tournament, considering how much they put into prize pool and prodcution. So why don't they treat it as such - as an advert? Why do they go after re-streamers? How much money can the "twitch exclusive" deal even make them? Can it really be some relevant sum compared to the cost of the whole thing?
I suspect this is just a lot of corporate sort-sightedness where some exec is trying to fulfill some benchmarks of getting X money form Y and nobody is really looking at the big picture. Once you sink some money into something, you should consider this money as a part of balance of anything else related and if your twitch deal makes you some, but limits the reach of the marketing produced for millions of dollars of costs, it might not be that good a deal after all ...
I still find some of the views in this thread about how they owe something to Koreans completely ridiculous, but Blizzard's approach here doesn't make too much sense either.
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On November 01 2018 14:46 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
MC and Leenock cast you say? Might watch some of that instead :p
MC undisputed GOAT starcraft caster!
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On November 01 2018 18:38 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2018 18:06 sunnyshine wrote:On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link? He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/ Was incontrol really claiming there are less Koreans interested in the wcs signature series than there are Italians? Italians who don't speak English, that is, to keep in line with the "well, your language doesn't matter, learn English" theme that incontrol is on. Anyway, glad Blizzard stepped in and managed to find something of a solution for the WCS cast. Still pretty sad that this was a last minute rush job, but better than no job at all. And MC casting? I'm a bit jealous now. I'd trade about 7 of our English casters for having MC :D
Incontrol's a cool dude, but sometimes he makes some really stupid statements. I remember during the decline of sc2 he said that everything was fine because he got a raise.
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On November 01 2018 20:26 sunnyshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2018 18:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 01 2018 18:06 sunnyshine wrote:On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link? He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/ Was incontrol really claiming there are less Koreans interested in the wcs signature series than there are Italians? Italians who don't speak English, that is, to keep in line with the "well, your language doesn't matter, learn English" theme that incontrol is on. Anyway, glad Blizzard stepped in and managed to find something of a solution for the WCS cast. Still pretty sad that this was a last minute rush job, but better than no job at all. And MC casting? I'm a bit jealous now. I'd trade about 7 of our English casters for having MC :D Incontrol's a cool dude, but sometimes he makes some really stupid statements. I remember during the decline of sc2 he said that everything was fine because he got a raise.
cool douche from time to time, or most of the time..
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On October 28 2018 17:51 Waxangel wrote:Update: Oct 31Blizzard has added additional casters to the Korean community stream to try and improve the BlizzCon experience for the Korean fans, but the original GSL casters will remain absent from the broadcast. https://twitter.com/esportstarcraft/status/1057830987936059392
The Korean community has expressed its outrage over the state of Korean-language casting for this year's WCS Global Finals, where it appears that the familiar voices of the GSL will not be casting StarCraft II's most prestigious event. GSL commentator JYP told TeamLiquid.net that "...we were contacted before BlizzCon. Were were told that there was no separate budget for production or appearance fees. AfreecaTV would have been able to provide production/talent appearance support. Howevevr, [WCS at BlizzCon] was an exclusive Twitch stream, so we were unable to."Korean fans took to Reddit, looking to catch the attention of the US-located, English-speaking, Blizzard headquarters. One post read: "crank TV is playing the broadcast during the opening period. and LuciaTV from the quarterfinals to the final. Crank is a former pro(but even thoght he is just a one of streamer ), while Lucia is just a large-scale streamer with little to do with Starcraft 2( She has held the Starcraft 2 tournament, but basically, she is a not a starcraft2 streamer) . There's no mention of broadcast with expert commentator at all While even the StarCraft remaster event games are sent to the official channel, it is unknown that the main event of the blizzcon, the StarCraft 2 finals, will not use the official bradcast.
...
There are people who devote for Starcraft 2.Among them, the on-poong media created by GSL broadcast team holding a lot of competitions. of starcraft2 Despite this passion, Blizzard says that will not be able to make a boradcast and It has been known a while ago that Blizzard korea proposed a non-paycheck broadcast to on-poong team. It sounds like an excuse that we couldn't afford the broadcasting team because we didn't have the budget now. I think Blizzard is being too unfair for the interests of its users and fans."Postings on Korean community forums expressed their displeasure at Blizzard's promotion of the 2018 War Chests as 'supporting esports' while failing to provide the Korean community with the commentary they had become accustomed to all year.
yeah it suck aaaaa
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8748 Posts
We were overwhelmed by the passion from the Korean StarCraft community for the #WCS Global Finals
This sounds like something an alien trying to mimic humanity would say. I can't picture the person who would respond to the feedback the Koreans have given with "I am overwhelmed by your passion." And in fact it's not just one person, but two or more!
Whoever's feelings were represented via the StarCraft eSports Twitter, I appreciate you baring yourself to the world. I hope you've recovered well enough to enjoy BlizzCon! And I'm sure that the Korean community is grateful for your poise and determination to put this together so quickly after being overwhelmed by their passion.
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United States33175 Posts
Ultimately, it seems Blizzard was unwilling/unable to get the GSL casters to cast the Global Finals, but have tried make up for it by adding more community/pro casters and upping the quality of the community stream. Is it going to be enough to please the Korean StarCraft II community?
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On November 02 2018 03:22 Waxangel wrote:
Ultimately, it seems Blizzard was unwilling/unable to get the GSL casters to cast the Global Finals, but have tried make up for it by adding more community/pro casters and upping the quality of the community stream. Is it going to be enough to please the Korean StarCraft II community?
It improves the situation but I think the discontent will remain. We would be pretty bummed if Tastosis weren't casting.
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On November 02 2018 04:21 Dave4 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2018 03:22 Waxangel wrote:
Ultimately, it seems Blizzard was unwilling/unable to get the GSL casters to cast the Global Finals, but have tried make up for it by adding more community/pro casters and upping the quality of the community stream. Is it going to be enough to please the Korean StarCraft II community? It improves the situation but I think the discontent will remain. We would be pretty bummed if Tastosis weren't casting.
I dunno. Yes. But if we got MC instead? I'd take it!
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On November 02 2018 03:14 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +We were overwhelmed by the passion from the Korean StarCraft community for the #WCS Global Finals This sounds like something an alien trying to mimic humanity would say. I can't picture the person who would respond to the feedback the Koreans have given with "I am overwhelmed by your passion." And in fact it's not just one person, but two or more! Whoever's feelings were represented via the StarCraft eSports Twitter, I appreciate you baring yourself to the world. I hope you've recovered well enough to enjoy BlizzCon! And I'm sure that the Korean community is grateful for your poise and determination to put this together so quickly after being overwhelmed by their passion.
i mean, they're not going to straight up say "yeah you guys complained loudly enough, nice job" lol, they've gotta spin it in a more positive way...
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On November 01 2018 08:40 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. you can't use "logically" in place of "in my opinion," m8 gonna have to handing out some warnings if you keep presenting what are very clearly subjective opinions as fact.
RTS is a let's say, more noble genre then MOBAs, it need history, it need legends it need to have the meta changed by great geniuses and champions, not expansions and updates
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There are so many koreans in other countries I want to share starcraft with, but there's not a quality korean broadcast for me to do so for Blizzcon. That's really sad. Blizzard owes korean players and fans... Starcraft as an esport would not exist without them. It is also really sad for the korean players' family and friends to not have a korean broadcasting team.
User was warned for this post
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On November 01 2018 18:53 BlueStar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2018 18:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 01 2018 18:06 sunnyshine wrote:On November 01 2018 15:54 Azzur wrote:On October 31 2018 21:31 Rodya wrote:On October 30 2018 06:10 Nathanias wrote:On October 29 2018 02:58 AntiHack wrote:On October 28 2018 23:01 Rodya wrote:
By the way, I find it telling that people tell Koreans to "just watch the English stream, whats the big deal?" and at the same time say that it's fine that the English commentarys have a massive foreigner bias in their analysis/commentary "because it's the english/foreigner stream".
I will never understand the contempt some people in the community have for Koreans. I think that everyone who actually got decent at any esport looked up to many Koreans, and so would be incapable of such feelings. My guess is that this is a very telling analysis. I guess ppl like Nathanias saying "F**k Korea" basically every 2 streams doesn't help What? I don't have anything against Koreans. The only community in StarCraft that I dump on is BW Elitists because they deserve it. Anyone could have easily just been fans of both games and recognized a united scene is better than a divided one. Thanks for playing though! How about you dont flame people who like BW but not SC2? Is that unreasonable? Flash is the greatest RTS player of all time and its logically impossible for a SC2 player to steal that throne. Also it would be nice if one caster said something about this in support of Korea. Instead all we have had is Incontrol saying that Korea doesnt deserve commentary (on reddit). I hope Artosis at least says something, he's the only one I trust. Referencing the bold text... I tried to look for this but couldn't find it. Do you have the link? He's probably referring to this thread complaining about no korean subtitles for the signature series: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/9s3d5s/no_korean_subtitles_on_wcs_signature_series/e8lv3ks/ Was incontrol really claiming there are less Koreans interested in the wcs signature series than there are Italians? Italians who don't speak English, that is, to keep in line with the "well, your language doesn't matter, learn English" theme that incontrol is on. Anyway, glad Blizzard stepped in and managed to find something of a solution for the WCS cast. Still pretty sad that this was a last minute rush job, but better than no job at all. And MC casting? I'm a bit jealous now. I'd trade about 7 of our English casters for having MC :D I'd trade the whole English production if MC is casting the event!
Incontrol really dropped the ball in that post imo. You just can´t blame it on not having enough korean viewers while having half the players from Korea. It is actually insulting because he is one of the commentators and gets away with his irony.
("In fact, all languages were excluded. Makes me sad for our Japanese viewers  ")
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Also, Korean players are playing the QFs at 3-4am korean time.
Gee that should not hinder them at all.
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On November 02 2018 06:03 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2018 04:21 Dave4 wrote:On November 02 2018 03:22 Waxangel wrote:
Ultimately, it seems Blizzard was unwilling/unable to get the GSL casters to cast the Global Finals, but have tried make up for it by adding more community/pro casters and upping the quality of the community stream. Is it going to be enough to please the Korean StarCraft II community? It improves the situation but I think the discontent will remain. We would be pretty bummed if Tastosis weren't casting. I dunno. Yes. But if we got MC instead? I'd take it!
Yeah - MC casting in English would be pretty rad
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Leenock can speak English pretty well as well. At this point I rather watch only MC and Leenock cast in English. There's really no reason why there would be an English caster for each and every EU / NA player anyways. It makes no sense.
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There were less than 4000 people watching the Korean stream. The time is just not suited for Korea...
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On November 03 2018 12:32 BjoernK wrote:
There were less than 4000 people watching the Korean stream. The time is just not suited for Korea...
Not great for Europeans, either, but this is about sending a message to your fans. Also language-specific VODs are nice to have, I guess.
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to be fair, just because of how good koreans are they always get "special" treatment, i mean there aint any finish casters at all at the tournament i would guess not even a rebroadcast
having blizzard not PAY the casters for korea to be there sounds ... not wanna be sounding harsh ... pretty reasonable
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On November 08 2018 18:39 Drake wrote:to be fair, just because of how good koreans are they always get "special" treatment, i mean there aint any finish casters at all at the tournament i would guess not even a rebroadcast having blizzard not PAY the casters for korea to be there sounds ... not wanna be sounding harsh ... pretty reasonable
If 6 of the 8 players at blizzcon were finnish I would be angry too if there was no official finnish broadcast.
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On November 03 2018 12:52 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2018 12:32 BjoernK wrote:
There were less than 4000 people watching the Korean stream. The time is just not suited for Korea... Not great for Europeans, either, but this is about sending a message to your fans. Also language-specific VODs are nice to have, I guess.
How do you know that? Many Europeans are just watching the english stream.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 08 2018 22:44 fronkschnonk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2018 12:52 Creager wrote:On November 03 2018 12:32 BjoernK wrote:
There were less than 4000 people watching the Korean stream. The time is just not suited for Korea... Not great for Europeans, either, but this is about sending a message to your fans. Also language-specific VODs are nice to have, I guess. How do you know that? Many Europeans are just watching the english stream.
The time. He was talking about the time And the time of finals was shit for the Europe. 11:30 PM GMT ended the Rogue v Serral matchI believe, 0:30 AM CET... then there was the break etc. I don't know when it started, wasn't watching because I was pissed by the time management. How big of a deal would it be to start an hour earlier. OR. OR. LOWER the damn couch time!!!!!
Well, but that's a history and after the announcement for Diablo fans I reaalized Blizzard has moved on so I have to move on too Couldn't resist xD
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EPT
