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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On September 15 2018 00:04 Zrana1 wrote: I really like these changes  Would be nice if people complaining provided a reason behind not liking a change. If you read through the thread, you'll see plenty of reasons. | ||
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Ryu3600
Canada469 Posts
On September 14 2018 23:24 youngjiddle wrote: As funny as this sounds, the only way to beat late game, 3/3 mass BCs as protoss was to make tempests. Carriers, voidrays, and stalkers lose to them teleporting on top of them and using yamato. Tempests sorta straight up won. Now they nerf the tempest hit points by half. They will just get teleported on and yamato'd. Speed boost won't make a difference when terran can teleport+firewith shooting, making kiting my protoss non-existent.. It's hilarious. I hope someone could unit test this because I am curious as to how it works. You just make cannons and recall... Your teleport is faster recharge than our teleport. In the downtime you simply just 1 shot the BC's with enough tempests lol On September 14 2018 17:53 ejozl wrote: The units you mentioned will almost not be affected by this change. Zerglings, Mutas, Queens, Broodlings, Marines, Zealots, Sentries, other Cyclones and workers is what will fair better. Yes, those are units that the change was meant to affect but my point was that the cyclone is now an armored unit with 0 armor. Which doesn't make much sense. The units you mentioned will do more damage to it but now the units that I mentioned will be doing bonus damage (Since they deal extra damage) vs an armored unit with no armor. What I was trying to say was we have a light unit (basically) taking vs armored damage from immortals lol | ||
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virpi
Germany3598 Posts
On September 14 2018 01:51 gruntrush wrote: Cloaked widow mines are the reason that I stopped playing 4 years ago. I just got back into 1v1 and found the new window mine much more reasonable to deal with. I hope they will reconsider this change. I can't see it making a big difference in super high level games, but at the lower levels it's just another. whoops! you don't have enough detection and insta lose mechanic that I found so frustrating in the early days of HOTS. Aside from some drilling claws allins, there won't be too much trouble, I think. Even in lower leagues. Ovi speed is a must have upgrade anyway and having some overseers in your armies isn't too hard. Cloaked WMs are pretty neat against ling runbys, though. WMs without the cloaking are pretty much dead supply once they've gone off, especially when they're in the Terran's main army. They don't have lots of HP and are cleaned very easily right now, which is why almost nobody is using them. On September 13 2018 06:31 batatm wrote: i was waiting for something that would make infestors viable but alas, it was not meant to be... Making them viable is very hard, unless you go for a complete redesign. If fungal roots, it's OP. Neural always has been a niche spell, there are situations when it's kinda good, but it's not as reliable as other options. As for infested terrans, I think they're in a good spot right now. The main problem with infestors used to be that they could be massed for easy AOE damage and zone control, quite similar to the Raven pre-nerf. Don't forget you're trading energy vs. minerals/gas, which can snowball very quickly. Basically, infestors are specialist units for very specific situations. They do help a lot in some late game scenarios right now. @balance update in general: I'm not good enough to go beyond my personal opinions here. From what I've seen, the ultralisk upgrade is nuts. I highly doubt it will go through in its current state. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
On September 14 2018 23:24 youngjiddle wrote: As funny as this sounds, the only way to beat late game, 3/3 mass BCs as protoss was to make tempests. Carriers, voidrays, and stalkers lose to them teleporting on top of them and using yamato. Tempests sorta straight up won. Now they nerf the tempest hit points by half. They will just get teleported on and yamato'd. Speed boost won't make a difference when terran can teleport+firewith shooting, making kiting my protoss non-existent.. It's hilarious. I hope someone could unit test this because I am curious as to how it works. Now BCs kill tempest in 2 Yamatos. However with new patch they'll kill tempest IN...!!! 2 Yamatos. So don't worry your nightmares of BCs suddenly turning TvP into a 99% for terran aren't going to happen. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On September 14 2018 23:41 youngjiddle wrote: same could be said for mass carrier but people still whined until they got nerfed out of the game. And now compare the amount of times BCs have been built in professional games with the amount of times carriers have been played. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On September 15 2018 01:24 Ryu3600 wrote: You just make cannons and recall... Your teleport is faster recharge than our teleport. In the downtime you simply just 1 shot the BC's with enough tempests lol Do you not realize that protoss recall aoe will only be able to recall like, 4 tempests because of how small the new aoe is plus tempest's huge size? lol. On September 15 2018 02:15 Lexender wrote: Now BCs kill tempest in 2 Yamatos. However with new patch they'll kill tempest IN...!!! 2 Yamatos. So don't worry your nightmares of BCs suddenly turning TvP into a 99% for terran aren't going to happen. You do realize that it's not about how many yamatos you use on one tempests... drop yamatos on every tempest and you leave them at something like 20 hp. 2 seconds of BC moving attack and they all will all die. Like I said this weekend I am going to unit test them and maybe make a video. I get that it sucked that mech didn't work vs protoss at all in high level play, but I think this change might be too large. | ||
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ThunderJunk
United States677 Posts
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newageofpower
5 Posts
On September 13 2018 13:31 blooblooblahblah wrote: Haha, no. Tempests will now kite Vikings forever with their shiny new 3.5 movespeed (for reference, Vikings are 3.8), or at least long enough for the viking blob to melt to a few storms.Tempests are absolute paperweights now against Vikings | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
On September 15 2018 06:20 youngjiddle wrote: Do you not realize that protoss recall aoe will only be able to recall like, 4 tempests because of how small the new aoe is plus tempest's huge size? lol. You do realize that it's not about how many yamatos you use on one tempests... drop yamatos on every tempest and you leave them at something like 20 hp. 2 seconds of BC moving attack and they all will all die. Like I said this weekend I am going to unit test them and maybe make a video. I get that it sucked that mech didn't work vs protoss at all in high level play, but I think this change might be too large. They also nerfed BC damage vs air from 6 to 5, take into consideration the base armor of a tempest and add a sentry for GS(wich now has a bigger radius) and a BC does a whoping 1 damage per shot, 1 fucking damage, please do test this and let us see how a 1 damage BC is going to destroy air units left and right. | ||
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Creager
Germany1894 Posts
On September 15 2018 10:16 Lexender wrote: They also nerfed BC damage vs air from 6 to 5, take into consideration the base armor of a tempest and add a sentry for GS(wich now has a bigger radius) and a BC does a whoping 1 damage per shot, 1 fucking damage, please do test this and let us see how a 1 damage BC is going to destroy air units left and right. I will be watching the shit out of this video he’ll be producing. In addition to that, if you don’t know how to stack your air units for a Recall you’re probably playing the wrong game. | ||
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seopthi
391 Posts
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
One of the things i dont understand is no mentioning of swarmhosts in the revamp. It would be the perfect time to finally adress this god damn unit. | ||
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
It's one of those units that make BW elitists say "...and that's why BW is better..." It's one of those units that make RTS veteran wanna switch the genre. It's one of those units that make you wonder why or how it even got out of the first brainstorm meeting at blizzard. It''s one of those units that make your dad say "you're still watching this stupid game ? clean your room and get a job" ,_, Have mercy with my brain, blizzard. Thanks | ||
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ilililililililiii
United States93 Posts
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On September 17 2018 04:00 KR_4EVR wrote: Can blizzard please make concussive shell shock an area of effect (AOE) slow? you realize how stupidly broken that would be? On September 17 2018 04:54 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: i mean you gotta be blind to think swarmhosts are actually fine balance or design wise. Swarmhosts are one of those units that make you question why you even put time and effort in the game. It's one of those units that make BW elitists say "...and that's why BW is better..." It's one of those units that make RTS veteran wanna switch the genre. It's one of those units that make you wonder why or how it even got out of the first brainstorm meeting at blizzard. It''s one of those units that make your dad say "you're still watching this stupid game ? clean your room and get a job" ,_, Have mercy with my brain, blizzard. Thanks Why? They are pretty fun if they get used, imo. Maybe they are not fun for a turtle mech player like Avilo, but thats a good thing. | ||
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Siegetank_Dieter1
117 Posts
On September 17 2018 07:15 Aunvilgodess wrote: you realize how stupidly broken that would be? Why? They are pretty fun if they get used, imo. Maybe they are not fun for a turtle mech player like Avilo, but thats a good thing. cmon man... cmon. Swarmhosts and fun in one sentence ? i mean... cmon man. swarmhosts are one of the most messed up units i've ever experienced in a RTS game. Also this unit has a very negative history in SC2. Swarmhosts basically ruined most of heart of the swarm and caused a huge decline in player and viewerbase. To me personally it's insane how this unit wasn't removed yet. They tried to redesign it and rebalance it, but every iteration turned out to be either too strong balance wise or simply too bad from a design perspective (or both). So seriously.... i dont get it. What's even their role in the game !? to hardcounter every single factory unit ? because that's exactly what they're doing right now. It's a single unit that stops a whole playstyle from being viable. Why ? It's not like zerg would be weak vs mech without swarmhosts. Every race has to play vs mech, but zerg can abuse free locusts waves even though from a balance standpoint it's not even necessary. | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On September 17 2018 07:27 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: cmon man... cmon. Swarmhosts and fun in one sentence ? i mean... cmon man. swarmhosts are one of the most messed up units i've ever experienced in a RTS game. Also this unit has a very negative history in SC2. Swarmhosts basically ruined most of heart of the swarm and caused a huge decline in player and viewerbase. To me personally it's insane how this unit wasn't removed yet. They tried to redesign it and rebalance it, but every iteration turned out to be either too strong balance wise or simply too bad from a design perspective (or both). So seriously.... i dont get it. What's even their role in the game !? to hardcounter every single factory unit ? because that's exactly what they're doing right now. It's a single unit that stops a whole playstyle from being viable. Why ? It's not like zerg would be weak vs mech without swarmhosts. Every race has to play vs mech, but zerg can abuse free locusts waves even though from a balance standpoint it's not even necessary. So yeah I read that as "it kills my turtle mech playstyle". It is very much possible to play mech vs Zerg. | ||
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Psychonian
United States2322 Posts
On September 17 2018 07:27 Siegetank_Dieter1 wrote: cmon man... cmon. Swarmhosts and fun in one sentence ? i mean... cmon man. swarmhosts are one of the most messed up units i've ever experienced in a RTS game. Also this unit has a very negative history in SC2. Swarmhosts basically ruined most of heart of the swarm and caused a huge decline in player and viewerbase. To me personally it's insane how this unit wasn't removed yet. They tried to redesign it and rebalance it, but every iteration turned out to be either too strong balance wise or simply too bad from a design perspective (or both). So seriously.... i dont get it. What's even their role in the game !? to hardcounter every single factory unit ? because that's exactly what they're doing right now. It's a single unit that stops a whole playstyle from being viable. Why ? It's not like zerg would be weak vs mech without swarmhosts. Every race has to play vs mech, but zerg can abuse free locusts waves even though from a balance standpoint it's not even necessary. Mech is super viable vs Zerg. If you can't mech vs Zerg, phrasing this as delicately as possible, it isn't through the fault of the game. I see top terran players do it all the time, and I also see it (and sometimes lose to it) on the ladder in Plat 2. | ||
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