On May 21 2007 20:31 DenariusJay wrote:
You can still overpower someone in mouse speed with multi selection though. I can't figure out why some don't see this point.
The newb will select 200 units and A click. The pro will do the same, but will 300APM his ass when the battle actually happens. 300 apm devoted to the actual battle will be far more entertaining then seeing it split between battle and building, IMO. Plus, with multi selection we will see bigger battles more common thus forcing the player to have to micro each big battle in order to come out the victor.

Multi selection will not hinder craft2 in any way shape or form... it only Hinders SC1 cuz its wasn't designed for it. SC2 will be.

On May 21 2007 20:07 mahnini wrote:
That's just it. I don't want WC3, I DON'T WANT TO MICRO ALL THE TIME. If I did, I would be playing WC3. SC should be about micro AND MACRO.

Also, we are discussing multiple building selection.

A3iL3r0n

United States2196 Posts

May 21 2007 11:46 GMT

#83

After reading all this, all I feel is ... -_-

Being good at StarCraft takes mastery of so many individual skills, which in turns make the game fucking cool. To be good at StarCraft is like I'm good at this, plus this, plus this, plus and so on.

Making the game easier via the interface takes away some of those pluses. Yeah, there's more to the game than cycling through your buildings, but it is a significant part of the game because it affects your ability to micro a battle and keep producing smoothly, you have less time to think because of the additional task, it affects all those things.

Fuck.

Piccolo

Chile621 Posts

May 21 2007 12:01 GMT

#84

[offtopic]
Maybe Grrrr make a come back for SC:2 and own everyone again *0*, and many other retired progamers... that's would be kind of cool.[/offtopic]

I do share the opinion of Overmind77... I just don't think that MBS be the Panacea for noobs. You can't kill an enemy army using just tanks, or just marines. You need support units. The feature will be there, but in War3 sux because you just use units to protect heroes, wich are the key for victory.

In SC, you need a mix because every unit it's important, Macro it's as important as the units you will produce. If you want just one or two high templars, you still need to pick just one gateway.

MyLostTemple

United States2921 Posts

May 21 2007 12:06 GMT

#85

NO GOD PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW FOR THIS=[

Masashige

United States152 Posts

May 21 2007 12:23 GMT

#86

Would being able to rally peons directly to minerals and have them start mining be good or bad?

IntoTheWow

is awesome32277 Posts

May 21 2007 12:25 GMT

#87

Listen to Tasteless LOL!

Moutas

Greece158 Posts

May 21 2007 12:32 GMT

#88

If this actually happens then what Blizzard said about making SC2 more competitive is kinda crap, since they are removing one of the most important elements in the game that distinguishes noobs from pros. Removing macro from the game also has another drawback imo, players will focus more on micro than macro meaning that after a short period of time more and more people will be able to pull off "godly" moves, like killing 1 lurker with 1 marine, or sucessful mutalisk harass against marines. Removing the element of macroing also reduces the gap between players when it comes to micro, cause while they are microing they won't be forced to pay attention to anything else.

And when macro becomes easier for players, it doesn't really matter that much when they lose their armies cause with the push of a button they will have a new bunch of troops waiting for them in their base. It's like fastmap where every player has 50+ gates, even though units are getting smashed by the dozen, most of the time the battles lead nowhere since both players are massing out troops at the same rate and with the same efficiency, leading to a constant stalemate.

How can this change be seen as a step towards competitive gaming? I honestly have no idea...

Masashige

United States152 Posts

May 21 2007 12:44 GMT

#89

Oh, I just realized the dropships now have to 'land' in order to drop units. I guess that means no more clutch drop moves.

Hot_Bid

Braavos36379 Posts

May 21 2007 12:47 GMT

#90

On May 21 2007 21:44 Masashige wrote:
Oh, I just realized the dropships now have to 'land' in order to drop units. I guess that means no more clutch drop moves.

yeah but why would you have instantaneous drop/reload, its not realistic and it'd only be in there for that "gosu micro move"

L!MP

Australia2067 Posts

May 21 2007 12:58 GMT

#91

i dunno..... i see what people are saying, but at the same time macro will be very very easy; too easy, i think. you could focus almost entirely on assaults and sitting in your base would leave very little to do. i like that there's a gap between pros and noobs. this eliminates alot of that gap =/ i do however agree with CharlieMurphy when he saids "I think maybe the selection of multiple static defense structures is ok but unit producers is not."

NanaLo

United States13 Posts

May 21 2007 13:13 GMT

#92

but remember, what you hate to think your opponent can do, you can do yourself. so the only way to compensate for these "losses" is just to find a way to be better at everything "new" in general, thus finding some new skills to exceed at.

i'm sure come the day we all play SC2, the good players will find a way to distinguish themselves from the rest. it's always going to be like that, micro'ing and macro'ing in BW will always be in our hearts and we'll fight for it, but in the end, those terms may have different forms of execution to go along with them with SC2. this is pretty much new and fair game for everyone, so the only way to make sure you'll excel at SC2 is to not let your thoughts of BW get in the way too much.

enjoy the new experience and go with the flow.

AmorVincitOmnia

Kenya3846 Posts

May 21 2007 13:15 GMT

#93

TL is full of fucking noobs

and it breaks my little ol' heart

Moutas

Greece158 Posts

May 21 2007 13:37 GMT

#94

Just think about this: say Blizzard makes the game noob-friendly by adding autocast, automining for workers, multiple building selection and a bunch of other stuff. OK so it will be easier and they will have their fun, but after a short period of time doing those limited actions over and over again will become boring and they will not have anything to drive them towards improvement, cause there is nothing to improve on. In StarCraft if you can't micro your rines against lurkers what do you do? Do you complain to Blizzard to make it easier or do you STFU and TRAIN YOUR ASS OFF AND ENJOY THE PROCESS OF IMPROVING?

Distinguish the difference between "Strategy" and "Real-Time Strategy", cause the latter is all what StarCraft and StarCraft II is about.

StarCraft has become a success because of the dedicated players, not because of the noobs. The top players and progamers have made this game into what it is today, the most competitive RTS in the world.

Zanno

United States1484 Posts

May 21 2007 13:38 GMT

#95

sigh

if any of you have ever played warcraft 3 for more than 5 minutes you'd have noticed the multiple building selection system is REALLY INEFFICIENT IN DECIDING WHERE TO QUEUE NEW UNITS

it makes no effort to take into consideration the amount of time left for the next unit to pop, and unless you have enough money to queue every barracks selected at once, will frequently double-queue units when there is still an empty barracks in the selection. no pro is going to trust it to efficiently macro!

mahnini

United States6862 Posts

May 21 2007 13:39 GMT

#96

Zanno.

Don't post like that again. Ever.

XCetron

5226 Posts

May 21 2007 13:43 GMT

#97

Multiple building selection........

so if I hot key all my nexus to 0, if I keep hitting 0 it will cycle through all that?

that wins in my opinion, allows me to keep track of more places.

but gateways and stuff should just be rally only.

nagash

Australia58 Posts

May 21 2007 14:43 GMT

#98

I'm pretty sure that this entire post is pointless, because PRODUCTION ISN'T BEING DONE THE SAME WAY.

EDIT: Someone make a new thread with this info. It's important. I can't make new posts for 8 more days.

Check this:

A single Gateway/Warp Gate is constantly producing a single generic unit (I'm assuming only 1).

When that single unit is ready, it is your job to select which type of unit you want it to be and to bring it onto the battlefield INSTANTLY (and paying for it). After you do this, the Gateway/Warp Gate starts producing another one *automatically*.

So, in effect, this will make it even more important to multitask. Since you cant just select your Gateway and spam 5 zealots because there is only 1 available, you will have to make sure you are releasing your units all the time as they are available otherwise you will fall behind.

So basically this makes everyones whinging about being able to select and build from multiple production buildings pointless.

Here's the proof:

For proof - check the video.
~ 5:20 when he warps the Stalkers in from a Warp Gate
There are 4 Warp Gates selected, and each mini icon on the right of the HUD shows there being 4 units available. That is, you can select to create 4 zealots, 4 stalkers, 4 immortals or any combination of the above INSTANTLY (if you have the resources). Once the available numbers reach 0 you can clearly see the cooldown/build timer on the icons!

Btw, a Stalker costs 125 minerals and 50 gas atm. (You can work it out when he warps the first one in, by the resources lost)

Same thing at ~7:10 when he warps the Zealots in from a Warp Gate

Zanno

United States1484 Posts

May 21 2007 15:32 GMT

#99

On May 21 2007 22:39 mahnini wrote:
Zanno.

Don't post like that again. Ever.

i've said this every time it comes up and nobody is listening