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Improving the Global Finals Map Pool - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
52 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-26 03:43:29
July 26 2018 03:42 GMT
#41
Just let Blizzard select the maps from all seasons. No need for progamers to vote or anything of that. This is BlizzCon after all (organized by Blizzard). Players are paid to come and play so just focus on playing. They should've played all of the maps before. Don't involve them into some nonsense voting. GSL vs The World is ridiculous enough as it is when it comes to voting.

On top of that, Blizzard can select the 7 maps into required catalogs like 2 standard, 2 macro, 2 rush, 1 4-players map. That will create enough variety in term of map types without making the map pools too boring or too "standard" like some folks said above.
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
July 26 2018 03:50 GMT
#42
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2018 10:45 Boggyb wrote:
On July 26 2018 10:39 -NegativeZero- wrote:
i like the idea of using maps from the whole year, but letting the players choose them is a bad idea, for 2 reasons:

-they'd favor extremely standard maps, like others have mentioned
-players from each race would specifically vote for maps with favorable win rates for them. if more players of one specific race make it to blizzcon, they can essentially rig the map pool in their favor.

If you include whacky maps, they'll just be vetoed and thus what the hell was the point of this?


Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map. Meanwhile Neon Violet Square is non-standard and while it had a few issues it was still reasonably balanced, and gave some fun games.

Did it? All I can remember are super long turtle games and proxy void rays.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
July 26 2018 04:01 GMT
#43
On July 26 2018 12:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On July 26 2018 10:45 Boggyb wrote:
On July 26 2018 10:39 -NegativeZero- wrote:
i like the idea of using maps from the whole year, but letting the players choose them is a bad idea, for 2 reasons:

-they'd favor extremely standard maps, like others have mentioned
-players from each race would specifically vote for maps with favorable win rates for them. if more players of one specific race make it to blizzcon, they can essentially rig the map pool in their favor.

If you include whacky maps, they'll just be vetoed and thus what the hell was the point of this?


Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map. Meanwhile Neon Violet Square is non-standard and while it had a few issues it was still reasonably balanced, and gave some fun games.

Did it? All I can remember are super long turtle games and proxy void rays.


Well if you're me you find the proxy voidray games fun too, but there were some games like Bunny vs Dear (Game 2) that were memorable:

Timmay
Profile Joined April 2005
United States112 Posts
July 26 2018 04:44 GMT
#44
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map.


This is a very critical point, and everyone in favor of Mizenhauer's idea is ignoring it. Players are not going to pick the most interesting maps. They have no incentive to do so. They might not even favor balanced maps, depending on how the vote works out.

Also, let's be honest. Players are terrible at judging maps anyway. A few months ago, uThermal called Dreamcatcher the worst map he ever played on in the history of StarCraft 2. These days, he doesn't veto it in best-of-threes, where he gets two vetoes! Are there two maps in the pool worse than the worst map ever?

ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
July 26 2018 05:07 GMT
#45
On July 26 2018 13:44 Timmay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map.


This is a very critical point, and everyone in favor of Mizenhauer's idea is ignoring it. Players are not going to pick the most interesting maps. They have no incentive to do so. They might not even favor balanced maps, depending on how the vote works out.

Also, let's be honest. Players are terrible at judging maps anyway. A few months ago, uThermal called Dreamcatcher the worst map he ever played on in the history of StarCraft 2. These days, he doesn't veto it in best-of-threes, where he gets two vetoes! Are there two maps in the pool worse than the worst map ever?

https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBloodyFungusCeilingCat


Tbf why would a terran ever veto Dreamcatcher?
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
July 26 2018 06:15 GMT
#46
Another grand argument: just because someone obviously overreacts when they see a map for a first time, they will have biased judgement of it after playing on the map for months.
That happens, right?
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
July 26 2018 06:58 GMT
#47
It's a "TeamLiquid ESPORTS splits hairs over a non-issue" episode
Love those episodes
rly ?
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-26 10:13:49
July 26 2018 10:10 GMT
#48
This is a terrible idea.

Blizzcon is the most important tournament. The most important tournament should be played on the most current version of the game and the most current meta.

The current map pool is an inseparable part of that.

If the problem is that maps get vetoed, then pick better maps for the current pool.

Blizzcon is not some greatest hits of the year fling. The quintessential version of SC2 is whatever the current map pool is.
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
July 26 2018 10:13 GMT
#49
On July 26 2018 19:10 paralleluniverse wrote:

Blizzcon is not some greatest hits of the year fling.


Except for the part where they invite players based on their greatest hits of the year
Liquipedia"Expert"
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
July 26 2018 10:51 GMT
#50
On July 26 2018 19:10 paralleluniverse wrote:
Blizzcon is not some greatest hits of the year fling.


It actually is.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
IIEclipseII
Profile Joined February 2016
Germany157 Posts
July 29 2018 15:24 GMT
#51
Does this also consider the race distribution amongst players who picked maps? The tables lose some of their expressiveness when it's not transparent what race the veteoing players have.
KR_4EVR
Profile Joined July 2017
316 Posts
July 29 2018 18:17 GMT
#52
I remember back to Age of Empires II, where there were seed-generated maps. I would like somebody to design an entire map pool for Blizzcon, ideally, based on peoples' favourite maps but with all the things on the map (cliff edge paths, base placements, xel-naga distribution, etc) subject to a little bit of random. This would be fun to watch. Sure, it wouldn't be 'fair' in the strict sense of 'even'. But that reflects on the whole idea of SCII, that there can be 3 completely different races that have different advantages/disadvantages yet still roughly matched.
Et tu Brute ?
KR_4EVR
Profile Joined July 2017
316 Posts
July 29 2018 18:20 GMT
#53
On July 30 2018 03:17 KR_4EVR wrote:
I remember back to Age of Empires II, where there were seed-generated maps. I would like somebody to design an entire map pool for Blizzcon, ideally, based on peoples' favourite maps but with all the things on the map (cliff edge paths, base placements, xel-naga distribution, etc) subject to a little bit of random. This would be fun to watch. Sure, it wouldn't be 'fair' in the strict sense of 'even'. But that reflects on the whole idea of SCII, that there can be 3 completely different races that have different advantages/disadvantages yet still roughly matched.


I'll add to this the idea of dynamic maps. It would be nice to see maps where at random intervals in time (5 to 45 seconds maybe) random objects appeared in the fog of war, like rock debris from landing meteors, or shifting xel-naga towers, or random changes to elevation (with ramped edges) to random squares.

All of this would be in the fog of war areas.
Et tu Brute ?
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