• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:04
CET 13:04
KST 21:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview0TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL S3 Round of 16 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1760 users

Improving the Global Finals Map Pool - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
52 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 All
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-26 03:43:29
July 26 2018 03:42 GMT
#41
Just let Blizzard select the maps from all seasons. No need for progamers to vote or anything of that. This is BlizzCon after all (organized by Blizzard). Players are paid to come and play so just focus on playing. They should've played all of the maps before. Don't involve them into some nonsense voting. GSL vs The World is ridiculous enough as it is when it comes to voting.

On top of that, Blizzard can select the 7 maps into required catalogs like 2 standard, 2 macro, 2 rush, 1 4-players map. That will create enough variety in term of map types without making the map pools too boring or too "standard" like some folks said above.
Boggyb
Profile Joined January 2017
2855 Posts
July 26 2018 03:50 GMT
#42
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2018 10:45 Boggyb wrote:
On July 26 2018 10:39 -NegativeZero- wrote:
i like the idea of using maps from the whole year, but letting the players choose them is a bad idea, for 2 reasons:

-they'd favor extremely standard maps, like others have mentioned
-players from each race would specifically vote for maps with favorable win rates for them. if more players of one specific race make it to blizzcon, they can essentially rig the map pool in their favor.

If you include whacky maps, they'll just be vetoed and thus what the hell was the point of this?


Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map. Meanwhile Neon Violet Square is non-standard and while it had a few issues it was still reasonably balanced, and gave some fun games.

Did it? All I can remember are super long turtle games and proxy void rays.
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
July 26 2018 04:01 GMT
#43
On July 26 2018 12:50 Boggyb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On July 26 2018 10:45 Boggyb wrote:
On July 26 2018 10:39 -NegativeZero- wrote:
i like the idea of using maps from the whole year, but letting the players choose them is a bad idea, for 2 reasons:

-they'd favor extremely standard maps, like others have mentioned
-players from each race would specifically vote for maps with favorable win rates for them. if more players of one specific race make it to blizzcon, they can essentially rig the map pool in their favor.

If you include whacky maps, they'll just be vetoed and thus what the hell was the point of this?


Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map. Meanwhile Neon Violet Square is non-standard and while it had a few issues it was still reasonably balanced, and gave some fun games.

Did it? All I can remember are super long turtle games and proxy void rays.


Well if you're me you find the proxy voidray games fun too, but there were some games like Bunny vs Dear (Game 2) that were memorable:

Timmay
Profile Joined April 2005
United States112 Posts
July 26 2018 04:44 GMT
#44
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map.


This is a very critical point, and everyone in favor of Mizenhauer's idea is ignoring it. Players are not going to pick the most interesting maps. They have no incentive to do so. They might not even favor balanced maps, depending on how the vote works out.

Also, let's be honest. Players are terrible at judging maps anyway. A few months ago, uThermal called Dreamcatcher the worst map he ever played on in the history of StarCraft 2. These days, he doesn't veto it in best-of-threes, where he gets two vetoes! Are there two maps in the pool worse than the worst map ever?

ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
July 26 2018 05:07 GMT
#45
On July 26 2018 13:44 Timmay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2018 11:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Non-standard != wacky . Progamers liked Dusk Towers which is a terribly boring and mediocre map.


This is a very critical point, and everyone in favor of Mizenhauer's idea is ignoring it. Players are not going to pick the most interesting maps. They have no incentive to do so. They might not even favor balanced maps, depending on how the vote works out.

Also, let's be honest. Players are terrible at judging maps anyway. A few months ago, uThermal called Dreamcatcher the worst map he ever played on in the history of StarCraft 2. These days, he doesn't veto it in best-of-threes, where he gets two vetoes! Are there two maps in the pool worse than the worst map ever?

https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBloodyFungusCeilingCat


Tbf why would a terran ever veto Dreamcatcher?
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
July 26 2018 06:15 GMT
#46
Another grand argument: just because someone obviously overreacts when they see a map for a first time, they will have biased judgement of it after playing on the map for months.
That happens, right?
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
algue
Profile Joined July 2011
France1436 Posts
July 26 2018 06:58 GMT
#47
It's a "TeamLiquid ESPORTS splits hairs over a non-issue" episode
Love those episodes
rly ?
paralleluniverse
Profile Joined July 2010
4065 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-26 10:13:49
July 26 2018 10:10 GMT
#48
This is a terrible idea.

Blizzcon is the most important tournament. The most important tournament should be played on the most current version of the game and the most current meta.

The current map pool is an inseparable part of that.

If the problem is that maps get vetoed, then pick better maps for the current pool.

Blizzcon is not some greatest hits of the year fling. The quintessential version of SC2 is whatever the current map pool is.
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
July 26 2018 10:13 GMT
#49
On July 26 2018 19:10 paralleluniverse wrote:

Blizzcon is not some greatest hits of the year fling.


Except for the part where they invite players based on their greatest hits of the year
Liquipedia"Expert"
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
July 26 2018 10:51 GMT
#50
On July 26 2018 19:10 paralleluniverse wrote:
Blizzcon is not some greatest hits of the year fling.


It actually is.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
IIEclipseII
Profile Joined February 2016
Germany157 Posts
July 29 2018 15:24 GMT
#51
Does this also consider the race distribution amongst players who picked maps? The tables lose some of their expressiveness when it's not transparent what race the veteoing players have.
KR_4EVR
Profile Joined July 2017
316 Posts
July 29 2018 18:17 GMT
#52
I remember back to Age of Empires II, where there were seed-generated maps. I would like somebody to design an entire map pool for Blizzcon, ideally, based on peoples' favourite maps but with all the things on the map (cliff edge paths, base placements, xel-naga distribution, etc) subject to a little bit of random. This would be fun to watch. Sure, it wouldn't be 'fair' in the strict sense of 'even'. But that reflects on the whole idea of SCII, that there can be 3 completely different races that have different advantages/disadvantages yet still roughly matched.
Et tu Brute ?
KR_4EVR
Profile Joined July 2017
316 Posts
July 29 2018 18:20 GMT
#53
On July 30 2018 03:17 KR_4EVR wrote:
I remember back to Age of Empires II, where there were seed-generated maps. I would like somebody to design an entire map pool for Blizzcon, ideally, based on peoples' favourite maps but with all the things on the map (cliff edge paths, base placements, xel-naga distribution, etc) subject to a little bit of random. This would be fun to watch. Sure, it wouldn't be 'fair' in the strict sense of 'even'. But that reflects on the whole idea of SCII, that there can be 3 completely different races that have different advantages/disadvantages yet still roughly matched.


I'll add to this the idea of dynamic maps. It would be nice to see maps where at random intervals in time (5 to 45 seconds maybe) random objects appeared in the fog of war, like rock debris from landing meteors, or shifting xel-naga towers, or random changes to elevation (with ramped edges) to random squares.

All of this would be in the fog of war areas.
Et tu Brute ?
Prev 1 2 3 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Korean Royale
12:00
Group Stage 1 - Group B
LiquipediaDiscussion
Kung Fu Cup
12:00
2025 Monthly #3: Day 2
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs Cure
Reynor vs TBD
RotterdaM166
Liquipedia
RSL Revival
10:00
Group A
Solar vs MaxPaxLIVE!
Zoun vs Bunny
Crank 1179
Tasteless658
ComeBackTV 586
Rex135
IndyStarCraft 130
3DClanTV 57
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Crank 1179
Tasteless 658
RotterdaM 166
SortOf 138
Rex 135
IndyStarCraft 130
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 6116
Calm 5999
Bisu 2418
Sea 1818
Horang2 1340
Flash 799
Free 596
Pusan 521
Leta 188
Last 174
[ Show more ]
Rush 98
sSak 95
ZerO 94
JulyZerg 82
ToSsGirL 72
hero 56
Barracks 52
Backho 52
Aegong 49
Sea.KH 29
Icarus 24
NaDa 18
Terrorterran 15
Noble 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 9
Dota 2
BananaSlamJamma212
XcaliburYe209
League of Legends
Reynor72
Counter-Strike
olofmeister739
x6flipin512
zeus503
shoxiejesuss266
allub75
Other Games
B2W.Neo830
crisheroes322
ZerO(Twitch)6
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick494
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 9
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt760
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Monday
12h 56m
RSL Revival
21h 56m
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
23h 56m
herO vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
1d 21h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
1d 23h
IPSL
2 days
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
2 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL 21
3 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
3 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.