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Active: 925 users

Serral defeats Has to win WCS Valencia 2018

Forum Index > SC2 General
63 CommentsPost a Reply
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TL.net ESPORTS
Profile Joined July 2011
4 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-10 20:41:05
July 15 2018 08:39 GMT
#1
WCS Valencia on Liquipedia

(Wiki)Serral gave WCS Valencia 2018 a historic ending as he won his third WCS Circuit championship in a row. Once again, Serral entered the tournament as the heavy favorite to lift the trophy, and once again Serral lived up to expectations as he defeated all challengers who came his way. Canada's Scarlett came closest to ending Serral's reign, even taking a 2-1 lead in their RO16 match. The momentary deficit did not rattle Serral, who showed flawless execution and mechanics to close the series 3-2. Reynor—the young Italian who caused the upset of the Code S season by eliminating Classic—was dismissed in quarterfinal sweep. HeRoMaRinE—perhaps a title contender in a world without Serral—saw his mech-Terran eaten alive by locusts in the semifinals.

As in the previous WCS Circuit stop in Austin, Serral ceded much of the spotlight to his finals co-star. If MaNa had been a champion-of-yore making a miraculous late-career comeback, then (Wiki)Has was a veteran who had never even sniffed a major championship. Known for his single-minded dedication toward uniquely cheesy strategies, Has had spent much of his career as both a polarizing underdog and as a cult-hero to a subset of fans who appreciated his eccentricity.

Has' tricks had rarely been enough to steal more than a map off the 'true' contenders' in the past, but WCS Valencia saw Has make the tournament run of his career. Opponent after opponent found themselves vexed by an onslaught of bizarre builds they fully expected to come. More than once, Has' own mistakes saw him blow a winnable game. But by hook and by crook, Has progressed through the bracket. 3-2 vs Kelazhur. 3-2 vs Nerchio. 3-2 vs ShoWTimE. Then, Serral.

Perhaps Serral was too powerful a foe, or perhaps Has had exposed too many of his strategies by the time he reached the finals. In any case, the grand finals represented a return to normalcy (or what passes for normalcy in Has' world). Has was good enough to grind out a single map win in a bizarre double-cheese game. The rest of the games—though made entertaining by Has' commitment to all-ins—ended with Serral's swarm trampling over a huddled, ragged Protoss force.

After a valiant last stand from Has on Redshift, it was all over. Serral has made his point: he was the most dominant player in the WCS Circuit's brief history, sealed with a third consecutive trophy. And though Has left the finals stage without any silverware, the cheers from the crowd suggested he had earned that rarity among rarities in StarCraft: A moral victory.



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TL+ Member
Shuffleblade
Profile Joined February 2012
Sweden1903 Posts
July 15 2018 08:50 GMT
#2
Thanks for the summary and the video of the victorious moment. Had to leave to hang out with friends during the Neeb vs Showtime match so missed the rest of the games!
Maru, Bomber, TY, Dear, Classic, DeParture and Rogue!
KelsierSC
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
United Kingdom10443 Posts
July 15 2018 09:16 GMT
#3
Nicely written
Zerg for Life
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
July 15 2018 09:32 GMT
#4
Death, Taxes, Serral winning another Tournament
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
Dumbledore
Profile Joined April 2011
Sweden725 Posts
July 15 2018 09:42 GMT
#5
Serral won the tourny,
Has won my fandom.

Also why did they not use TaiWans flag in wcs for Has??
Have a nice day ;)
jahnesta
Profile Joined February 2014
France62 Posts
July 15 2018 09:45 GMT
#6
Has winning a "moral victory"
Stephano Life Jaedong TRUE Rogue
jahnesta
Profile Joined February 2014
France62 Posts
July 15 2018 09:48 GMT
#7
On July 15 2018 18:42 Dumbledore wrote:
Serral won the tourny,
Has won my fandom.

Also why did they not use TaiWans flag in wcs for Has??


I assume that's because Blizzard want to continue to earn money from China
Stephano Life Jaedong TRUE Rogue
LennX
Profile Joined October 2010
4557 Posts
July 15 2018 10:39 GMT
#8
Has performance has gotten him an invite to GSL vs the World. It was a well deserved victory.
Mute user function on TL; http://www.liquiddota.com/blogs/491245-mute-annoying-users-in-lr-threads
Dynge
Profile Joined July 2012
Denmark46 Posts
July 15 2018 12:41 GMT
#9
Congratulations to Serral. What a god damn beast of a player. Getting even more exited for GSL vs the World now.
I missed all of the ro16 and onward of Valencia. Any significant games you would recommend to watch?
Ciaus_Dronu
Profile Joined June 2017
South Africa1848 Posts
July 15 2018 12:47 GMT
#10
On July 15 2018 21:41 Dynge wrote:
Congratulations to Serral. What a god damn beast of a player. Getting even more exited for GSL vs the World now.
I missed all of the ro16 and onward of Valencia. Any significant games you would recommend to watch?


Honestly most of it. One of the most hype and watchable tournaments in a long time, it earned its 60K viewers. Games 1 to 4 of Has vs Serral were properly amazing though, game 2 and 3 especially.
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 12:57:20
July 15 2018 12:57 GMT
#11
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.
Grizvokian
Profile Joined June 2018
11 Posts
July 15 2018 12:58 GMT
#12
On July 15 2018 21:41 Dynge wrote:
Congratulations to Serral. What a god damn beast of a player. Getting even more exited for GSL vs the World now.
I missed all of the ro16 and onward of Valencia. Any significant games you would recommend to watch?


Definitely watch the finals, it was just really fun despite the 4-1 score.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19285 Posts
July 15 2018 13:02 GMT
#13
Serral still hasn't proven he can 1v3 insane AI. I'm waiting to be impressed
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
July 15 2018 13:06 GMT
#14
Great tournament. Couldn't catch everything but the games I did watch were mostly great entertainment
Neosteel Enthusiast
Latr02
Profile Joined December 2012
United States268 Posts
July 15 2018 13:18 GMT
#15
Has was in some excellent positions, to say he threw might be a bit harsh but it's kind of surreal to think he could actually have beaten Serral in a bo7. The games were on the edge of a knife and it was extremely entertaining.
BaneRiders
Profile Joined August 2013
Sweden3630 Posts
July 15 2018 13:54 GMT
#16
I watched a lot of Has' games (except the finals which I have still to catch up on, and the group stages) and I'm not so sure cheese is adequate anymore. Sure, there is the occasional cannon rush, and proxy whatnot, but more often than not he simply started half normal, but instead of saturating three full bases he turned on full aggro with some 47 probes. That hardly classifies as bona fide cheddar though? The fact that he had scared his opponents to stop droning up long before that kind of makes it anti-cheese.
Earth, Water, Air and Protoss!
waiting2Bbanned
Profile Joined November 2015
United States154 Posts
July 15 2018 14:00 GMT
#17
On July 15 2018 21:41 Dynge wrote:
Congratulations to Serral. What a god damn beast of a player. Getting even more exited for GSL vs the World now.
I missed all of the ro16 and onward of Valencia. Any significant games you would recommend to watch?

All of Has' games, including his group victories over Elazer & Special, were amazing. He beat Nerchio without a single cannon-rush!
It was especially funny to see his opponents' confidence before the matches
"If you are going to break the law, do it with two thousand people.. and Mozart." - Howard Zinn
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15995 Posts
July 15 2018 14:00 GMT
#18
On July 15 2018 22:18 Latr02 wrote:
Has was in some excellent positions, to say he threw might be a bit harsh but it's kind of surreal to think he could actually have beaten Serral in a bo7. The games were on the edge of a knife and it was extremely entertaining.

If not for a few critical mistakes (losing the immortal in G3 and losing the prism in G4) He would probably lead 3-1.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 15:44:31
July 15 2018 15:42 GMT
#19
As much as I like it when a player has some creative builds, Has' playstyle just feels like a series of relentlessly expected early game full-bore offensive "cheese", most of which is not even very creative (probe push through the minerals on Redshit notwithstanding), to which I watch solid players fall like "How could you possibly not see this coming? Where is your scouting?". It sucks the fun out of the game for me.

I had fun watching Has for probably the first 2 series of his that I saw, way back in 2014, but now, I feel like I already get the same tired joke that he keeps repeating, and its long since stopped being entertaining. I feel like every game of his just drags both players through the muck and makes both him and the players look bad. It's ugly to watch.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15995 Posts
July 15 2018 15:58 GMT
#20
On July 16 2018 00:42 Pontius Pirate wrote:
I feel like I already get the same tired joke that he keeps repeating.

Must be a pretty good joke if it gets him into the finals.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Kurao
Profile Joined April 2018
215 Posts
July 15 2018 17:14 GMT
#21
Congratulations to Serral for the 3-piece, truly an astonishing achievement!

On another note, what a crazy finals that was. I think everyone was expecting Showtime to get to the finals. Has clearly looked at the upsets MaNa was pulling in Austin and went: "I can do better", because he really did put up a good fight against the man who on paper should 100-0 Has.

Also, I highly recommend everyone to check out Feardragon's video on Has and his playstyle: www.youtube.com
Ympulse
Profile Joined August 2010
United States287 Posts
July 15 2018 19:06 GMT
#22
Has = Ratings. If he could just learn to expand (Or even learn to take gas) while keeping the crazy aggression, he could redefine the meta.
PuddleZerg
Profile Joined August 2015
United States82 Posts
July 15 2018 19:19 GMT
#23
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.
"Weapons grade autism" - Destiny
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
July 15 2018 19:30 GMT
#24
On July 16 2018 04:19 PuddleZerg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.

Yawn. He also played them before and won. He has a pretty good record against them this year, except for the latest losses against soO which you seem to have in your memory. proof
saltis
Profile Joined September 2012
159 Posts
July 15 2018 20:59 GMT
#25
On July 15 2018 18:48 jahnesta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2018 18:42 Dumbledore wrote:
Serral won the tourny,
Has won my fandom.

Also why did they not use TaiWans flag in wcs for Has??


I assume that's because Blizzard want to continue to earn money from China


Because Taiwan is not recognized as independent country by UN. Thank's to USA who adopted diplomatic relationship with China by kicking Taiwan out of UN in 1971.
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 16:03:28
July 15 2018 21:34 GMT
#26
On July 16 2018 04:30 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 04:19 PuddleZerg wrote:
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.

Yawn. He also played them before and won. He has a pretty good record against them this year, except for the latest losses against soO which you seem to have in your memory. proof


and maru was kind of toying around with serral at WESG... but with the raven nerf it might look diffent now. im sure he can keep up with top koreans. we'll find out soon.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 21:44:22
July 15 2018 21:42 GMT
#27
Serral did what was expected. But Has was the real mvp for making the tournament fun. I don't think I'd have watched much past the ro16 if not for him. It's a shame he made a couple mistakes in the final, because that series was winnable at time.

On July 16 2018 04:30 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 04:19 PuddleZerg wrote:
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.

Yawn. He also played them before and won. He has a pretty good record against them this year, except for the latest losses against soO which you seem to have in your memory. proof

Beating Impact, Trust, and Zest isn't exactly shocking.

The only results I'd give weight to were him winning a close series against Trap (3-2), and beating Classic in the 3rd place match of wesg (3-1). Other than that he basically doesn't have any relevent results.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 21:59:10
July 15 2018 21:56 GMT
#28
Beating Rogue is pretty good I'd say. And Zest is good too usually, I don't know how he good he was at the time of IEM but he was pretty good at some points this year.

I haven't seen his last matches against Maru, but Serral's "weakness" is Terran and you know how Maru is decimating everyone atm. His matches against soO were pretty close and could've ended different, soO was just slightly better that day.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 21:57:53
July 15 2018 21:57 GMT
#29
On July 16 2018 06:56 HolydaKing wrote:
Beating Rogue is pretty good I'd say. And Zest is good too usually, I don't know how he good he was at the time of IEM but he was pretty good at some points this year.

Zest's PvZ is like upper mid-tier WCS level in offline matches.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
PuddleZerg
Profile Joined August 2015
United States82 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-15 22:54:53
July 15 2018 22:53 GMT
#30
On July 16 2018 04:30 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 04:19 PuddleZerg wrote:
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.

Yawn. He also played them before and won. He has a pretty good record against them this year, except for the latest losses against soO which you seem to have in your memory. proof

I was referring to his games losing to Maru that were mentioned on stream at Valencia, good to know he lost to soO too. Stop trying to pretend you know what people think, you don't have that ability.
"Weapons grade autism" - Destiny
Sphairos
Profile Joined July 2018
22 Posts
July 15 2018 23:05 GMT
#31
I feel that if Has simply was consistent in cheesing , he would have made it to the finals much easier. Just cannon rush the zergs third, not only the natural. Cannon rush Showtimes new nexus etc. He definitely threw a lot of games. He tapped out with Serral when corruptors reached his 2 nexai , instead he should have warped a bunch of stalkers at each one and sniped 5 corruptors, he had like 9+ gates ... He would be Ok even if they destroyed the nexai.

So if he could improve , he will be terrifying.
Xamo
Profile Joined April 2012
Spain880 Posts
July 15 2018 23:25 GMT
#32
How would an hybrid of Has and sOs play?
My life for Aiur. You got a piece of me, baby. IIIIIIiiiiiii.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 15 2018 23:30 GMT
#33
Good writeup but it doesn't really convey the phenomenal level of play that Has was showing. Sure, not enough to beat Serral, but the execution, micro, and for the most part the decisionmaking were all incredibly impressive.
spritzz
Profile Joined November 2009
Canada331 Posts
July 16 2018 02:42 GMT
#34
What Has made it to finals??! :D Time to find the vods.
zugzug
GreatTrash
Profile Joined December 2017
24 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 05:56:23
July 16 2018 05:51 GMT
#35
On July 16 2018 06:42 Fango wrote:
Serral did what was expected. But Has was the real mvp for making the tournament fun. I don't think I'd have watched much past the ro16 if not for him. It's a shame he made a couple mistakes in the final, because that series was winnable at time.

Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 04:30 HolydaKing wrote:
On July 16 2018 04:19 PuddleZerg wrote:
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.

Yawn. He also played them before and won. He has a pretty good record against them this year, except for the latest losses against soO which you seem to have in your memory. proof

Beating Impact, Trust, and Zest isn't exactly shocking.

The only results I'd give weight to were him winning a close series against Trap (3-2), and beating Classic in the 3rd place match of wesg (3-1). Other than that he basically doesn't have any relevent results.


He also beat Rogue in Katowice. I know people in these parts are toxic Korean supremacists, but you're doing it based on lies now. Serral's won more against high level Koreans than lost this year. Serral was top 4 in Katowice, a tournament full of top Koreans, some of whom didn't even make it to ro32.

People here lying about results to belittle Serral are just miserable, racist pieces of shit. If TL feels the need to ban me for speaking the truth, good. Bathing among this sewage filth isn't good for the soul anyway.

User was banned for this post.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 06:02:52
July 16 2018 06:00 GMT
#36
On July 16 2018 08:05 Sphairos wrote:
I feel that if Has simply was consistent in cheesing , he would have made it to the finals much easier. Just cannon rush the zergs third, not only the natural. Cannon rush Showtimes new nexus etc. He definitely threw a lot of games. He tapped out with Serral when corruptors reached his 2 nexai , instead he should have warped a bunch of stalkers at each one and sniped 5 corruptors, he had like 9+ gates ... He would be Ok even if they destroyed the nexai.

So if he could improve , he will be terrifying.

the battery-robo rushes against Serral were also poorly done. not to take away anything from either, it s probably the nerves, but never seen a robo rush getting un-powered before due to poor pylon placement before. Also he forgot to remake a canon at least to protect against ling surrounds.

Also, to the people trying to discredit Serral's wins against koreans this year, just get a grip on reality...

You could do the same mental gymnastics and discredit Maru's GSL wins, well he only beat Zest, Rogue and Classic, it s not like he s beating the best
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
vyzion87
Profile Joined July 2018
17 Posts
July 16 2018 07:10 GMT
#37
I loved watching Serral for exceptional play. I loved watching Has for excitement and also good play...I think he has a ton of potential.
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
July 16 2018 09:32 GMT
#38
On July 16 2018 14:51 GreatTrash wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 06:42 Fango wrote:
Serral did what was expected. But Has was the real mvp for making the tournament fun. I don't think I'd have watched much past the ro16 if not for him. It's a shame he made a couple mistakes in the final, because that series was winnable at time.

On July 16 2018 04:30 HolydaKing wrote:
On July 16 2018 04:19 PuddleZerg wrote:
On July 15 2018 21:57 MockHamill wrote:
Serral is so good now that he needs better opponents in order to increase his skill.

I do not think foreigners provide much of a challenge for him any more.

He's played them before, he lost.

It's why he's not in the GSL. Good financial decision but poor competitive one. Ironic, its the same thing why we cried for region locking because the Koreans were taking all our money.

Yawn. He also played them before and won. He has a pretty good record against them this year, except for the latest losses against soO which you seem to have in your memory. proof

Beating Impact, Trust, and Zest isn't exactly shocking.

The only results I'd give weight to were him winning a close series against Trap (3-2), and beating Classic in the 3rd place match of wesg (3-1). Other than that he basically doesn't have any relevent results.


He also beat Rogue in Katowice. I know people in these parts are toxic Korean supremacists, but you're doing it based on lies now. Serral's won more against high level Koreans than lost this year. Serral was top 4 in Katowice, a tournament full of top Koreans, some of whom didn't even make it to ro32.

People here lying about results to belittle Serral are just miserable, racist pieces of shit. If TL feels the need to ban me for speaking the truth, good. Bathing among this sewage filth isn't good for the soul anyway.


oh man... cant you american restrict this to your politics? noone outside america likes to discuss on this level.
Azhrak
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland1196 Posts
July 16 2018 10:05 GMT
#39
Congrats to Serral! It's amazing how dominant he is outside of Korea and how long of a period it has been. He said it's unlikely to get yet another trophy but at this point I think it's almost expected.
starcraft2.fi
zealotstim
Profile Joined February 2015
United States455 Posts
July 16 2018 12:22 GMT
#40
Wow, looks like he crushed the tournament just based on the scores. Also speaks well of Scarlett for being a game away from beating him.
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
July 16 2018 12:45 GMT
#41
what a noob he lost 3 maps
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 14:27:37
July 16 2018 14:27 GMT
#42
On July 16 2018 15:00 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 08:05 Sphairos wrote:
I feel that if Has simply was consistent in cheesing , he would have made it to the finals much easier. Just cannon rush the zergs third, not only the natural. Cannon rush Showtimes new nexus etc. He definitely threw a lot of games. He tapped out with Serral when corruptors reached his 2 nexai , instead he should have warped a bunch of stalkers at each one and sniped 5 corruptors, he had like 9+ gates ... He would be Ok even if they destroyed the nexai.

So if he could improve , he will be terrifying.
Also, to the people trying to discredit Serral's wins against koreans this year, just get a grip on reality...

You could do the same mental gymnastics and discredit Maru's GSL wins, well he only beat Zest, Rogue and Classic, it s not like he s beating the best

You really can't. Maru beat all the best players in Korea minus INno and TY.

The most impressive results Serral has vs Koreans are beating Trap 3-2 after nearly getting 3-0'd, and beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG after getting stomped at katowice. If you think that's enough to put him up with the best then fair enough, but personally I wouldn't.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 14:38:28
July 16 2018 14:37 GMT
#43
On July 16 2018 23:27 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 15:00 Geo.Rion wrote:
On July 16 2018 08:05 Sphairos wrote:
I feel that if Has simply was consistent in cheesing , he would have made it to the finals much easier. Just cannon rush the zergs third, not only the natural. Cannon rush Showtimes new nexus etc. He definitely threw a lot of games. He tapped out with Serral when corruptors reached his 2 nexai , instead he should have warped a bunch of stalkers at each one and sniped 5 corruptors, he had like 9+ gates ... He would be Ok even if they destroyed the nexai.

So if he could improve , he will be terrifying.
Also, to the people trying to discredit Serral's wins against koreans this year, just get a grip on reality...

You could do the same mental gymnastics and discredit Maru's GSL wins, well he only beat Zest, Rogue and Classic, it s not like he s beating the best

You really can't. Maru beat all the best players in Korea minus INno and TY.

The most impressive results Serral has vs Koreans are beating Trap 3-2 after nearly getting 3-0'd, and beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG after getting stomped at katowice. If you think that's enough to put him up with the best then fair enough, but personally I wouldn't.

You really can, since I specifically listed the last 3 opponent of Maru in Finals, semis and quarterfinals from the last GSL win. Serral beat the very same people this year, at LAN events.

Funny how when Classic wins over Serral it is a "stomp", and when it happens vice-versa it s just a simple "beating in a 3rd place match" (like who even cares at that point, right? bronze matches, duh)

At the start of this year he even beat Maru online 2-0, but i guess that can be dismissed cuz it was a while ago and not at a LAN
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
July 16 2018 14:47 GMT
#44
On July 16 2018 23:37 Geo.Rion wrote:
At the start of this year he even beat Maru online 2-0, but i guess that can be dismissed cuz it was a while ago and not at a LAN

Not that I have much of a stake in your argument, but a match where Maru played with 400+ ping from KR to EU and just proxied a bunch of barracks is probably not worth mentioning.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
July 16 2018 14:58 GMT
#45
On July 16 2018 23:47 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 23:37 Geo.Rion wrote:
At the start of this year he even beat Maru online 2-0, but i guess that can be dismissed cuz it was a while ago and not at a LAN

Not that I have much of a stake in your argument, but a match where Maru played with 400+ ping from KR to EU and just proxied a bunch of barracks is probably not worth mentioning.

I wasnt saying it sarcastically, it can be dismissed. I dont have any clue about how much ping there was, but is the nature of the online cross-region matches. "proxied a bunch of baracks" is a fair chunk of Maru s TvZ wins, so there s that
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Kikirik1
Profile Joined January 2017
45 Posts
July 16 2018 15:48 GMT
#46
On July 16 2018 23:37 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 23:27 Fango wrote:
On July 16 2018 15:00 Geo.Rion wrote:
On July 16 2018 08:05 Sphairos wrote:
I feel that if Has simply was consistent in cheesing , he would have made it to the finals much easier. Just cannon rush the zergs third, not only the natural. Cannon rush Showtimes new nexus etc. He definitely threw a lot of games. He tapped out with Serral when corruptors reached his 2 nexai , instead he should have warped a bunch of stalkers at each one and sniped 5 corruptors, he had like 9+ gates ... He would be Ok even if they destroyed the nexai.

So if he could improve , he will be terrifying.
Also, to the people trying to discredit Serral's wins against koreans this year, just get a grip on reality...

You could do the same mental gymnastics and discredit Maru's GSL wins, well he only beat Zest, Rogue and Classic, it s not like he s beating the best

You really can't. Maru beat all the best players in Korea minus INno and TY.

The most impressive results Serral has vs Koreans are beating Trap 3-2 after nearly getting 3-0'd, and beating Classic in the 3rd place match at WeSG after getting stomped at katowice. If you think that's enough to put him up with the best then fair enough, but personally I wouldn't.

You really can, since I specifically listed the last 3 opponent of Maru in Finals, semis and quarterfinals from the last GSL win. Serral beat the very same people this year, at LAN events.

Funny how when Classic wins over Serral it is a "stomp", and when it happens vice-versa it s just a simple "beating in a 3rd place match" (like who even cares at that point, right? bronze matches, duh)

At the start of this year he even beat Maru online 2-0, but i guess that can be dismissed cuz it was a while ago and not at a LAN


Its no about bronze, its about 50 000$ mach or so...
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8305 Posts
July 16 2018 15:52 GMT
#47
On July 16 2018 15:00 Geo.Rion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2018 08:05 Sphairos wrote:
I feel that if Has simply was consistent in cheesing , he would have made it to the finals much easier. Just cannon rush the zergs third, not only the natural. Cannon rush Showtimes new nexus etc. He definitely threw a lot of games. He tapped out with Serral when corruptors reached his 2 nexai , instead he should have warped a bunch of stalkers at each one and sniped 5 corruptors, he had like 9+ gates ... He would be Ok even if they destroyed the nexai.

So if he could improve , he will be terrifying.


Also, to the people trying to discredit Serral's wins against koreans this year, just get a grip on reality...

You could do the same mental gymnastics and discredit Maru's GSL wins, well he only beat Zest, Rogue and Classic, it s not like he s beating the best


This is really well said.

I don't see how someone can see this result, on top of all his other success this year, and conclude he can't compete against the best. He's earned his place in TL's power ranks in my opinion.
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
267
Profile Joined December 2017
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 18:25:34
July 16 2018 18:19 GMT
#48
The success of many foreigners over the last year in GSL and other tournaments indicates that the gap between foreigners and Korean players is the smallest it has ever been. Combining this with Serral is'nt winning, is he freaking destroying the foreign scene, I think it is fair to say he could be the best player.

But I think there is a big handicap for Serral, the foreign terran scene is to weak. Top Korean terrans can practice all day against top level zergs, but this level of terran opponents simply does not exists outside of Korea :/
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33457 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 18:24:29
July 16 2018 18:24 GMT
#49
On July 17 2018 03:19 267 wrote:
The success of many foreigners over the last year in GSL and other tournaments indicates that the gap between foreigners and Korean players is the smallest it has ever been. Combining this with Serral is'nt winning, is he freaking destroying the foreign scene, I think it is fair to say he could be the best player.

But I think there is a big handicap for Serral, that the foreign terran scene is to weak. Top Korean terrans can practice against top level zergs, but I doubt that the reverse is true for Serral :/


Eh, personally I don't think there's anywhere CLOSE to enough information to say anything about the KR-foreigner gap. But that's sort of the success of region-lock: if you withhold Korea vs World matches, people will naturally build up hope in their own head for whatever they want to be true (whether it's Korean domination or Foreigner hope)
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
267
Profile Joined December 2017
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 18:47:31
July 16 2018 18:46 GMT
#50
On July 17 2018 03:24 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2018 03:19 267 wrote:
The success of many foreigners over the last year in GSL and other tournaments indicates that the gap between foreigners and Korean players is the smallest it has ever been. Combining this with Serral is'nt winning, is he freaking destroying the foreign scene, I think it is fair to say he could be the best player.

But I think there is a big handicap for Serral, that the foreign terran scene is to weak. Top Korean terrans can practice against top level zergs, but I doubt that the reverse is true for Serral :/


Eh, personally I don't think there's anywhere CLOSE to enough information to say anything about the KR-foreigner gap. But that's sort of the success of region-lock: if you withhold Korea vs World matches, people will naturally build up hope in their own head for whatever they want to be true (whether it's Korean domination or Foreigner hope)


Well Neeb won the first Korean tournament in 20 years of SC history not to long ago. There are more foreigners in GSL then ever before, and they seem to keep qualifying. And Serral make these foreign GSL players look like kids that just made it into master.

Comparing this to the situation 2-3 years ago when there was a no foreign hope, I would say progress has been made. After Stephano lost his edge there was no one. The foreigner that made it farthest in tournaments was generally decided by the bracket position that ran into a Korean last.

The foreign scene has come quite far since then, the question is only how far.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55555 Posts
July 16 2018 19:00 GMT
#51
On July 17 2018 03:46 267 wrote:
There are more foreigners in GSL then ever before, and they seem to keep qualifying.

Getting into GSL has never been so easy. This might sound harsh, but the fact of the matter is, the amount of active Koreans that have a chance to make GSL Ro32 is not much higher than 32. And the lower end of that isn't exactly players that would do very well in WCS. Just a few years ago, the Korean scene had so many players that those who didn't make Code S would still be stronger than any foreigner at a weekender. Dozens of retirements later, they struggle to get together 32 players.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
267
Profile Joined December 2017
64 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 19:19:15
July 16 2018 19:11 GMT
#52
On July 17 2018 04:00 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2018 03:46 267 wrote:
There are more foreigners in GSL then ever before, and they seem to keep qualifying.

Getting into GSL has never been so easy. This might sound harsh, but the fact of the matter is, the amount of active Koreans that have a chance to make GSL Ro32 is not much higher than 32. And the lower end of that isn't exactly players that would do very well in WCS. Just a few years ago, the Korean scene had so many players that those who didn't make Code S would still be stronger than any foreigner at a weekender. Dozens of retirements later, they struggle to get together 32 players.


I agree that GSL and Korean scene is not what it used be. But my argument still stand that the gap between the "regions" are smaller then before, which can be explained to a large extent by that the Korean scene is smaller/weaker today.

The situation is reversed to what it was at the "decline" of the foreign scene in HoTS, which to a large extent could be explained by KESPA:s move to SC2 in my opinion. The amount of Korean SC2 pros double over night during a time when they where already heavily favored.
MrMischelito
Profile Joined February 2014
347 Posts
July 16 2018 20:02 GMT
#53
haha, the current standings of WCS Points look like a joke.

Serral = bonjwa

(Wiki)2018 StarCraft II World Championship Series Circuit/Standings
FFW_Rude
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France10201 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 20:35:19
July 16 2018 20:32 GMT
#54
Remove region lock since now Foreigners SEEMS to be as strong as koreans. We'll see if it remains the same when they start serious training against them. In all honesty i'd be really interested in finding out. Even if it proves me wrong.

On July 17 2018 05:02 MrMischelito wrote:
haha, the current standings of WCS Points look like a joke.

Serral = bonjwa

https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/2018_StarCraft_II_World_Championship_Series_Circuit/Standings


Nice bait
#1 KT Rolster fanboy. KT BEST KT ! Hail to KT playoffs Zergs ! Unofficial french translator for SlayerS_`Boxer` biography "Crazy as me".
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15995 Posts
July 16 2018 21:00 GMT
#55
On July 17 2018 04:11 267 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2018 04:00 Elentos wrote:
On July 17 2018 03:46 267 wrote:
There are more foreigners in GSL then ever before, and they seem to keep qualifying.

Getting into GSL has never been so easy. This might sound harsh, but the fact of the matter is, the amount of active Koreans that have a chance to make GSL Ro32 is not much higher than 32. And the lower end of that isn't exactly players that would do very well in WCS. Just a few years ago, the Korean scene had so many players that those who didn't make Code S would still be stronger than any foreigner at a weekender. Dozens of retirements later, they struggle to get together 32 players.


I agree that GSL and Korean scene is not what it used be. But my argument still stand that the gap between the "regions" are smaller then before, which can be explained to a large extent by that the Korean scene is smaller/weaker today.

The situation is reversed to what it was at the "decline" of the foreign scene in HoTS, which to a large extent could be explained by KESPA:s move to SC2 in my opinion. The amount of Korean SC2 pros double over night during a time when they where already heavily favored.

Foreigners getting into Code S says NOTHING about how they match up against the mid-high level koreans.
out of all the times foreigners qualified (10-15?) a single one made it through the ro32 once. And that was when she was in a form that let her 3-1 Serral.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-16 22:30:24
July 16 2018 22:29 GMT
#56
i think Serral could hold his own vs korean Z and P, but T he would struggle.
he could win Blizzcon if he doesn’t match up with a strong Terran

RealityTheGreat
Profile Joined January 2018
China564 Posts
July 16 2018 23:02 GMT
#57
Miracle
Betrayed, forgotten, abandoned.
Steroidbrucie
Profile Joined July 2018
56 Posts
July 16 2018 23:11 GMT
#58
[image loading]
This is just incredible. Serral is levels above everyone in the west.
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
July 17 2018 00:57 GMT
#59
This was by far the most entertaining of the 3 WCS Circuit events this year. All of the games were inevitable Serral domination, but at least Has had us guessing what strange way he would find to lose to Serral.
Parrek
Profile Joined May 2016
United States893 Posts
July 17 2018 07:25 GMT
#60
On July 17 2018 09:57 Zzoram wrote:
This was by far the most entertaining of the 3 WCS Circuit events this year. All of the games were inevitable Serral domination, but at least Has had us guessing what strange way he would find to lose to Serral.

He actually had really close games many times. It was great to watch
rjpageuk
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom13 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 12:00:57
July 17 2018 12:00 GMT
#61
On July 17 2018 06:00 Charoisaur wrote:
Foreigners getting into Code S says NOTHING about how they match up against the mid-high level koreans.
out of all the times foreigners qualified (10-15?) a single one made it through the ro32 once. And that was when she was in a form that let her 3-1 Serral.


Imagine the mental gymnastics you need to go through to write this without mentioning that another foreigner qualified for the GSL ro16 just 2 weeks ago, one that was in the form that saw him lose 3-0 to Serral 3 days ago.
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-07-17 12:28:47
July 17 2018 12:25 GMT
#62
did we not already settle the foreigner argument years ago?

the top few foreigners who surpass all other foreigners are generally about equally talented as koreans, but koreans have a stronger environment in terms of tradition, sponsorship, knowledge of how to practice, knowledge of how to play a series, etc. serral is on a korean level of gameplay on individual maps, but will probably never be on a korean level of CONSISTENCY because of the foreign league environment, just like neeb, snute, scarlett, stephano, every foreigner who ever came close to greatness. that's why foreigners are very strong but don't last

why is this not the obvious and ultimate answer? i know a million people have said this before me. this answer should be so obvious that it should actually completely shut down the shitposts. if you don't believe this answer you're basically saying something really uncomfortable about different ethnicities, and that doesn't even belong on this forum
TL+ Member
JDDD
Profile Joined July 2018
4 Posts
July 17 2018 14:20 GMT
#63
What a run for Has tho. I'm glad some people would start to take him more seriously now after this tournament.

He's actually a really good player and even more fun to watch than others.

Congratz to Serral.
Sphairos
Profile Joined July 2018
22 Posts
July 19 2018 23:46 GMT
#64
On July 17 2018 09:57 Zzoram wrote:
This was by far the most entertaining of the 3 WCS Circuit events this year. All of the games were inevitable Serral domination, but at least Has had us guessing what strange way he would find to lose to Serral.


If not bold mistakes by Has, he could have been winning 3:1. More than that , if he cannon rushed Serrals third, not only the natural, he could have won. Serral had nothing against that.
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