EPTReplays and Observer mode - Page 3
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marshmallow
United States93 Posts
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
Anyhow Counter-Strike includes ALOT less information then starcraft, 10 units vs 300 anyone? | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On May 21 2007 05:25 Zironic wrote: Are you sure that Counter-Strike has rewind? Anyhow Counter-Strike includes ALOT less information then starcraft, 10 units vs 300 anyone? but it's 3D.. | ||
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marshmallow
United States93 Posts
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
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Taiche
France1963 Posts
1) please version replays correctly -_-; Not being able to find out which version of the exe was needed to run a replay is a pain the ass. And please don't "support" it like in War3 (old replays can simply not be loaded... thanks !). Real versioning with real backward compatibility would be much appreciated ! 2) insert minimap in replay like in War3 OR provide native tools/libraries to let third-party applications make their own (even simple documentation will do). We had a rough time figuring out how to generate a minimap from raw data with RepASM/ReXplorer and I don't want to run into this again  (this point is somewhat related to point 6 ; see below)3) same, insert the actual map into the replay. The way this is handled in Warcraft III is completely stupid IMHO. People must download/copy the actual map to the right directory before seeing a replay ? Please no. Now, I understand this can be difficult if maps are large files (i.e. 3MB+) because that might be the case but PLEASE think of something handy. 4) yeah, stats are fun and nice, add some during actual replay ! Providing an external application to display some charts would be great as well  (but I guess we can make our own anyway ;p )5) like in War3, make it so double-clicking on a replay launches the game with replay loaded. I know it's a very basic and easy-to-implement feature and it's soooo useful for the end-users. 6) adding metadata to a replay. This is a more generic version of point #2. The idea is to provide some room or make the format so that people can insert safely any type of data : images, text, audio... That way, third-party apps would be able to plug into the replay without messing around the whole system. See RWA/RWT/FPREPs implementations for example, where the extra data were just appended at the end of the file -_-; 7) yeah, rewinding would be great but I don't know how doable this is. Now, for something a bit further than the point #6... maybe provide interfaces/SDK/scripting system so people can make legal plugins for SC ? But this is a bit off-topic anyway | ||
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ShAsTa
Belgium2841 Posts
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ofclean
United States100 Posts
On May 20 2007 21:18 DeCoup wrote: Time to add my 2 cents...(as a programming/amature game designer) 1) It would not increase the file size of the replays. Take for example a microsoft word document. You can see at all times the number of words in the document. You think that this information is stored in a .doc file? No its not. It is calculated at runtime. Same thing for no of kills etc in a replay. BWChart etc calculate how many marines have been built and display it. Adding any stats about a replay would not increase its filesize. 2) Computers perform well over 8 million actions per second. That was a stastic from like 5 years ago. You really think a hud displaying numebr of kills etc would struggle? Not 1 bit. RTS games are not very cpu intensive. In fact the only part of a RTS that is intensive is the AI. and replays don't run ai.. all the enemys 'moves' are stored just like yourown. Because their is no AI script running their is a massive ammount of unused potential which would be put to good use displaying this kind of information. And as for Observer mode, every time a unit dies all players are updates with this information. So far as code goes its player1kills=player1kills+1 kinda stuff. Their is no chance that any stats or extra ingame hud information would slow the game down. (BTW.. has blizz confirmed replay features? Also are their replays in WC3? never really played it) You are full of shit everywhere. Replays DO use the AI. Replays are just a list of player commands, and the AI takes care of pathing, etc. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On May 21 2007 04:34 DrainX wrote: If they use the same seed during the entire game then each random-roll would turn out the same (If one unit misses vs higher ground then all do etc.). Have blizzard ever made any statements about what they use as seed? or how can you be so sure? You either need a seed that varies over time or you need one seperate seed for every "die-roll". I think its much more likely that they use the "gametime played so far" as seed since it varies throughout the game but is always the same each time you replay it. Another option would be creating a high number of seeds at the start of the game and then using them in some set order... but that would just be stupid... Ok, you do not quite understand how seeds work. Starting from ONE seed you generate not one, but a (very) long series of random numbers. These numbers are not truly random but completely determined from the seed, and the generator used. They are though random enough to use in starcraft. We don't want to get too technical. Point is: you can with one single seed generate a very long series of random numbers. ___________________________________________________ Ontopic: It would be great if you in the bottom right could show whats building in all the barracks, etc. just a small icon of a marine, and completion bars. Also a occupied time - idle time ratio for each production building (especially CCs!!) would be fun. That would be a better (note: not the ultimate!  ) measurement of macro-skills than just APM. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2917 Posts
* Option to reccord audio straigth to replay (this would only apply for the rep saved at your computer naturally. ^_^). Also option to add soundtrack to existing rep! * Super broadcast mode. Only avalible in LAN enviroment for full use of all options (or when the internet connections have super good connections). Saves the replay as well as VODs from all active players in an intregrated manner. Includes audiotracks (possibly from all players and the main observer). If you want you can have "slave" observers that has teamspeak to the main observer so they can tell him were the action is at, or which can toggle statistics. The main observer is able to switch between his own screen or first person view of the active players screen (FPS mode). This mode should also be able to generate a videostream of the main observers screen that is separate of the game (this should be avalible even if the connection is to weak to allow FPS view of all players for example so that you only get the observer). OK that's just wishfull thinking but GOD DAMN would it be nice. Can you imagine the ammount of broadcasted leauge games we would get? Like every final. ^_^ | ||
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
On May 21 2007 06:46 ofclean wrote: You are full of shit everywhere. Replays DO use the AI. Replays are just a list of player commands, and the AI takes care of pathing, etc. he meant AI as the strategical, instead-human-player AI | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
On May 21 2007 08:54 freelander wrote: he meant AI as the strategical, instead-human-player AI Some people are a bit hasty with their namecalling I think... | ||
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MannerKiss
United States2398 Posts
On May 20 2007 16:18 thedeadhaji wrote: I will be sad if communal replay watching ceases to exist, much like in war3 I agree 100% | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On May 21 2007 08:49 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: More things: * Option to reccord audio straigth to replay (this would only apply for the rep saved at your computer naturally. ^_^). Also option to add soundtrack to existing rep! * Super broadcast mode. Only avalible in LAN enviroment for full use of all options (or when the internet connections have super good connections). Saves the replay as well as VODs from all active players in an intregrated manner. Includes audiotracks (possibly from all players and the main observer). If you want you can have "slave" observers that has teamspeak to the main observer so they can tell him were the action is at, or which can toggle statistics. The main observer is able to switch between his own screen or first person view of the active players screen (FPS mode). This mode should also be able to generate a videostream of the main observers screen that is separate of the game (this should be avalible even if the connection is to weak to allow FPS view of all players for example so that you only get the observer). OK that's just wishfull thinking but GOD DAMN would it be nice. Can you imagine the ammount of broadcasted leauge games we would get? Like every final. ^_^ Oh, I love this idea! It would generate EXTREMELY sweet replays! To the extent that people would quit playing the game and just watch these reps. Blizzard is taking notes, yes? | ||
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On May 21 2007 07:29 Cascade wrote: Ok, you do not quite understand how seeds work. Starting from ONE seed you generate not one, but a (very) long series of random numbers. These numbers are not truly random but completely determined from the seed, and the generator used. They are though random enough to use in starcraft. We don't want to get too technical. Point is: you can with one single seed generate a very long series of random numbers. I know prefectly well what a seed is. In most cases the system clock or some other state of the computer is used as seed and the reason you can create many different random numbers along the way is the clock always changes. If the clock were to stand still the seed would not work since it would turn out the same each time. You said it yourself, computers are completly deterministic and so if you give them the same input they will always return the same output. | ||
Excalibur_Z
United States12281 Posts
On May 20 2007 15:29 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: * Free camera for replays! It migth start to lag if the observer goes crazy with camera angles but damn do I want to be able to zoom down over the shoulder of a Terran marine when the zerg horde comes down on him (you could do this in Ground Control btw and it was really neat). I don't understand what this means. Camera angles wouldn't be saved into the replay file or broadcasted to other players. The only one experiencing an FPS hit would be you. | ||
Insane
United States4991 Posts
On May 21 2007 10:06 DrainX wrote: I know prefectly well what a seed is. In most cases the system clock is used as seed and the reason you can create many different random numbers along the way is the clock always changes. If the clock were to stand still the seed would not work since it would turn out the same each time.  Random seed initializes the random generator. However, the next random number is not determined just by the initial seed, but it has some weird complicated formula which takes into account what was previously generated. When you seed the random number generator, it has no idea that the thing passed in is the system clock, nor does it keep track of how the clock changes. If you always start with the same seed at the start of your number sequence, then you'd be generating the same number, but what happens to the clock after you first seed it doesnt matter. | ||
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draeger
United States3256 Posts
Buying a decent computer isn't expensive. Buying a top of the line one is, but you don't need top of the line to play most games. All it takes is a decent video card, above average RAM, and a solid CPU. You can probably get that for like $700-800 TOPS and be able to run anything on the market. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2917 Posts
On May 21 2007 10:08 Excalibur_Z wrote: I don't understand what this means. Camera angles wouldn't be saved into the replay file or broadcasted to other players. The only one experiencing an FPS hit would be you. I was thinking more that if the game isn't optimized for free camera angles (no reason for it) a couple of observers zooming around wildly could perhaps lag their computers and thus the other players in an online game. In a replay it doesn't matter because your the only one watching so you can do what you want with the camera. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
On May 21 2007 10:22 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I was thinking more that if the game isn't optimized for free camera angles (no reason for it) a couple of observers zooming around wildly could perhaps lag their computers and thus the other players in an online game. In a replay it doesn't matter because your the only one watching so you can do what you want with the camera. Since observers arn't actually expected to send any worthwhile information to the host (The only thing they could send is chat) they should be able to lag their asses off without affecting the game itself. | ||
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