EPTI think unit queing will be alot wasier though.
Usually when I play terran I hotkey 1-5 to units and 8-0 to scans so 6&7 rax.
Now that 1 hotkey can be used for all units, i can set rax to 2-7. i think that is kinda borin but whatever.
No unit selection cap? - Page 6
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
I think unit queing will be alot wasier though. Usually when I play terran I hotkey 1-5 to units and 8-0 to scans so 6&7 rax. Now that 1 hotkey can be used for all units, i can set rax to 2-7. i think that is kinda borin but whatever. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19135 Posts
Wanna control your units? Better still make proper groups for a flank, except having groups 456 south 789 north 123 east to flank/surround west you now just got a bigger group of just 1 there 2 there and 3 there. Seriously I can't be bothered by this. What I REALLY dont hope they fix is being able to select a gazillion units of different types and still be able to cast spells, or too many spells on autocast. That is the easy thing I dread. The possibility for pro control better still be in there somewhere. And spellcasting is the place to save it all imho considering micro and other things. Autocast kills skill. But then again, some spells would NEED autocast to be usefull at all like heal which youd never be able to micro. So just dont introduce spells which require it to be effective. T_T | ||
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nagash
Australia58 Posts
Could either have it on a cooldown, or more like stim, or something. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
Examples: Normal attack (You maybe havn't noticed but standard attack really is just a spell on autocast game mechanics wise) Heal Standardised buffs (I don't think SC2 will have any though, doesn't make sense in Sci-fi) I think Blizzard is also adding alot of semi passive abilities. Like the Zealot charge activates automaticly and I also think that it looks like the Reapers jump ability is automatic if you tell them to go somewhere above or below them. Generally I think skill should be about deciding what to do, not clicking 5 times per second. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19135 Posts
On May 21 2007 00:29 nagash wrote: Zealot charge should be manually controlled I reckon. Automatic seems kinda silly. Could either have it on a cooldown, or more like stim, or something. Cooldown is fine tbh, and it's prolly an upgrade so im fine either way. If its automatic Im curious to what the rest gets in return since it's a nightmare to micro against that tier 1 vs tier 1. | ||
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TeRRan`UseR
Canada692 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v361/MaTtBoy/zealot.jpg) The only way I can see this being different is if it's like Age of Empires where the portraits just get smaller the more units you select; but I doubt this. Blizzard is too smart to put an unlimited selection cap IMO. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19135 Posts
On May 21 2007 00:32 TeRRan`UseR wrote: I'm pretty confident that the unit selection cap shall be 24; just look at this picutre. He can only have a maximum of 8 units per row, and there's enough room on the screen for 3 rows: The only way I can see this being different is if it's like Age of Empires where the portraits just get smaller the more units you select; but I doubt this. Blizzard is too smart to put an unlimited selection cap IMO. I think unlimited cap was mentioned in some interview so dunno but 24 looks fine. And as long as unlimited selection doesn't allow for spellcast options while selected with other units as well i'm cool with it. Gratz on your 200 psi (if that will remain the same) single file shizzle into my grinder. | ||
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nagash
Australia58 Posts
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
You can't really say that Blizzard are too smart to put in unlimited selection since they've already given official word that they are going to make it unlimited. They will most probably (As many of you seem to fear) add in the subgroups from Wacraft 3 meaning that you will indeed be able to cast spells with many units selected. | ||
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TeRRan`UseR
Canada692 Posts
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
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gEzUS
Canada371 Posts
On May 21 2007 00:30 Nyovne wrote: Cooldown is fine tbh, and it's prolly an upgrade so im fine either way. If its automatic Im curious to what the rest gets in return since it's a nightmare to micro against that tier 1 vs tier 1. Maybe that new Rush replaces the Speed upgrade | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19135 Posts
Thats what I thought ^^. | ||
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red.venom
United States4651 Posts
On May 20 2007 22:28 DeCoup wrote: Actually... I change my mind. 24 units for sure. Check this video at time index 7:25 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6287387257388853221 16 units are selected, but there is room for 1 more row. Notice how even the shape of the hud has a few pixels delete to allow the 3rd row to fix snugly in the frame? 24 units for sure. :D On May 21 2007 00:32 TeRRan`UseR wrote: I'm pretty confident that the unit selection cap shall be 24; just look at this picutre. He can only have a maximum of 8 units per row, and there's enough room on the screen for 3 rows: The only way I can see this being different is if it's like Age of Empires where the portraits just get smaller the more units you select; but I doubt this. Blizzard is too smart to put an unlimited selection cap IMO. It is confirmed there is no unit selection cap. This thread isnt about theorizing. | ||
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HeadBangaa
United States6512 Posts
But interface-obstacles are part of Starcraft's charm, and a mastery of controls distinguishes player skill very greatly, in a good, respectable way. | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
On May 21 2007 02:21 HeadBangaa wrote: A good game designer wants to eliminate interface-issues. But interface-obstacles are part of Starcraft's charm, and a mastery of controls distinguishes player skill very greatly, in a good, respectable way. I think it all comes down to a disagreement about if Unit and Building selection is what skill should be about. I think Starcraft 2 is trying to remove interface issues and implementing more advanced unit tactics in their place. | ||
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EmS.Radagast
Israel280 Posts
If your pop was below 40, you mined gold at 100% efficiency If your pop was between 40 and 70, you mined gold at 70% efficiency If your pop was between 70 and 90, you mined gold at 40% efficiency This means fexp to mass unit strategies sucked because they would make you lose gold in the long run, and provide the enemy with countless weak lower tech units to kill for experience. Any attempt to outmacro your opponent was severely punished, and the game became about having the strongest possible 40 pop army going around killing creeps. All that has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the building selection interface. WC3 is about trying to do anything in your power to increase your heros xp and deny xp and items to enemy heros, the units themselves are part of that. Thus, you get the boring one-army-walking-around-killing-creeps 80-90% of the time, which sucks for spectators. That's what I think the biggest problems of WC3 are. I don't know why SC players attribute it to the improved interface, of all things... | ||
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Zironic
Sweden341 Posts
On May 21 2007 02:42 EmS.Radagast wrote: Anyway I noticed a common misconception here that multiselect is responsible for WC3's complete lack of macro. This is not true -- by far the worst macro killer in WC3 is the UPKEEP feature. For those not in the know, here's how it worked: If your pop was below 40, you mined gold at 100% efficiency If your pop was between 40 and 70, you mined gold at 70% efficiency If your pop was between 70 and 90, you mined gold at 40% efficiency This means fexp to mass unit strategies sucked because they would make you lose gold in the long run, and provide the enemy with countless weak lower tech units to kill for experience. Any attempt to outmacro your opponent was severely punished, and the game became about having the strongest possible 40 pop army going around killing creeps. All that has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the building selection interface. WC3 is about trying to do anything in your power to increase your heros xp and deny xp and items to enemy heros, the units themselves are part of that. Thus, you get the boring one-army-walking-around-killing-creeps 80-90% of the time, which sucks for spectators. That's what I think the biggest problems of WC3 are. I don't know why SC players attribute it to the improved interface, of all things... I agree, the upkeep feature in WC3 sucked soo much that I think my mind managed to forget about it. | ||
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OverTheUnder
United States2929 Posts
On May 21 2007 00:30 Zironic wrote: Somethings should really be on autocasts. Examples: Normal attack (You maybe havn\'t noticed but standard attack really is just a spell on autocast game mechanics wise) Heal Standardised buffs (I don\'t think SC2 will have any though, doesn\'t make sense in Sci-fi) I think Blizzard is also adding alot of semi passive abilities. Like the Zealot charge activates automaticly and I also think that it looks like the Reapers jump ability is automatic if you tell them to go somewhere above or below them. Generally I think skill should be about deciding what to do, not clicking 5 times per second. hmm i wanna quote something i said in a thread a few months back \"They just seem to think they are all some brilliant strategists that are only held back cause they can\'t click fast. Well they need to get a clue, most gamers can theory craft just fine, the ones who stand out are the ones who can execute it the best\" THEY= referring to the people on the relic forums who said things simliar to your own but more extreme. What I was trying to say is, MOST people who make statements like the one you made above are the same people that aren\'t fast enough to be good or at least not on top. This may not apply to you but it has just been my general experince. I am not saying that a competitive RTS (sc style anyway) should be all about mindless clicking, but having to constantly go back and make scvs/units (from individual buildings, not all hotkeyed together) and puts scvs on minerals aren\'t simply \"flaws\" in the UI. First I should point out how *important* macro like that is in a game of sc. 75% of sc games among less skilled players, the one with the better macro (by that I mean noticibly better) will generally win the game. All this constant background action helps set the pace of the game. It requires a gamer to wire his brain so that while playing the game, he has to set a timer in his mind so that he can remember to go back to his base and manage it as fast as possible. It makes victories more decisive and creates a much more noticible skill gap between players. Not many people can click fast and execute well ( the beauty of sc ) while still maintaining a strategic outline in their gameplay. *Alot* of people are good at what you define as \"skill\" when it comes to taking away the speed so players can focus on strategy. It isn\'t nearly as impressive when alot of people can do it on a similar level. There isn\'t nearly as much room for the \"progamers blow good gamers out of the water\" factor. What you will see is progamers that are better than many good players, but not in an OMG sort of way. To illustrate my point I\'ll use war3, although it is a somewhat extreme example. There is basically almost not macro in war3. At the same time, this is made up for by having units with higher life-totals, heroes, and most units have at least one if not multiple abilities. This allows fast players to still have an advantage through micro, although the speed required comes in spikes and doesn\'t last as long. This is fine for the players, but it will cause a much smaller gap in skill throughout all levels of the game. ( besides the few really bad people who just DONT micro;o) I also believe this is why koreans don\'t dominate as hard when it comes to war3. (this is just a guess) They arguably still have way more reason to practice 24/7 since they are STILL the capital of progaming, and war3 is still pretty big. In starcraft these long hours of practice make koreans stand out pretty far above most foriegners because they get rewarded when it comes to speed and execution. In war3, practicing the game for 10 hours a day wont reward you *as much* (obviously still some) over someone who practices 4 hours a day. So now I refer you to my quote above. When it comes down to it, taking away the repetitive tasks of SC will cause the game to get \"too easy.\" The only way to avoid this is to do what they did in war3, but that isn\'t spectator friendly for many reasons......and it definitely isn\'t staying true to bw;p That being said, I think some changes will make the game interesting, and they might have to make some changes since they are introducing many new units with many new abilities. | ||
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