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On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final,  Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17.
This HAS to be a joke, right?
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On June 22 2018 02:38 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 02:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. They really don't though, but hey maybe if you add the Game Land Invitational it could be close  Along with a Ro8 at BlizzCon? Yeah I don't see how what Maru did 2016-17 was any better than Zest's results after his peak in early 2016. Not that that is the point, though. Nobody in 16-17 considered Maru anywhere near a championship challenger, which for a player if his caliber qualifies as a slump. A bunch of Bo1s when Proleague was incredibly weak doesn't change that.
Proleague was weak enough for results there to be disregarded but HSCs still count?
Both Zest and Maru did amazing things in 2016, it was 2017 where they both slumped. And out of the two, Maru did legions better. Zest went 1-9 in SSL and either lost in GSL ro32 or the qualifiers. Maru went 5-4 both seasons in SSL iirc and made GSL ro4 and ro8. HSCs are cool but they aren't on the same level as actual premier events.
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Who cares about the past Zest is going to win the now.
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 22 2018 03:01 Aunvilgodess wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. This HAS to be a joke, right?
Maru had a Proleague run and then did nothing all year. Zest did FAR more in 2016, then both did very little of note in 2017, but Zest won two tournaments while Maru's best result was a second place at WESG that, in terms of quality, is actually worse than a HSC.
So yeah.
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This was a great read! So excited for the final!
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On June 22 2018 03:51 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 03:01 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. This HAS to be a joke, right? Maru had a Proleague run and then did nothing all year. Zest did FAR more in 2016, then both did very little of note in 2017, but Zest won two tournaments while Maru's best result was a second place at WESG that, in terms of quality, is actually worse than a HSC. So yeah.
Proleague is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more significant than HSC for skill assessment.
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Austria24422 Posts
On June 22 2018 04:16 Aunvilgodess wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 03:51 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 03:01 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. This HAS to be a joke, right? Maru had a Proleague run and then did nothing all year. Zest did FAR more in 2016, then both did very little of note in 2017, but Zest won two tournaments while Maru's best result was a second place at WESG that, in terms of quality, is actually worse than a HSC. So yeah. Proleague is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more significant than HSC for skill assessment.
Zest won a GSL when Maru had his Proleague streak. His HSCs came after while Maru posted nothing.
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pretty odd how people get hung up on a single sentence ^^ maru did basically nothing in individual tournaments in 2016 and even if he had gone 30-0 in proleague, he wouldve still been slumping. while hsc is certainly not a particularly prestigious tournament (and for good reasons), zest still beat solar 4-1, byun 4-2, gumiho 3-2, stats 3-0 over the course of his two finals runs. thats still very respectable and should at least allow the comparison that was made here. way to get upset over nothing ;P
i enjoyed the article and am looking forward to the finals, gogo maru!!
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United States33675 Posts
I'm cheering for both these guys, and I hope they show us good games ^_^
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nice article, lets go Maru 
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No matter how I slice it, I can't see Zest winning this. A game or two, sure, but not the whole series. Maru is just too strong, too fast, and too damn good at Starcraft.
Zest can go for macro and get wrecked like Classic. Zest can go for cheese and hope he's crazier than sOs (he isn't). Zest can, and undoubtedly will, pull out all the stops, practice his fingers off, play his heart out, and resort to every dirty trick in the Great Book of Protoss Bullshit, but Maru is four games away from making Starcraft history and claiming his spot among the legends of old.
This is Maru's era, Maru's moment, and Maru's trophy.
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This would be a Maru GuMiho final if not for TY's pause strats.
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On June 22 2018 04:37 Olli wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 04:16 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 03:51 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 03:01 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. This HAS to be a joke, right? Maru had a Proleague run and then did nothing all year. Zest did FAR more in 2016, then both did very little of note in 2017, but Zest won two tournaments while Maru's best result was a second place at WESG that, in terms of quality, is actually worse than a HSC. So yeah. Proleague is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more significant than HSC for skill assessment. Zest won a GSL when Maru had his Proleague streak. His HSCs came after while Maru posted nothing.
Maru didn't post nothing. He made GSL ro4 and ro8 while Zest struggled to even qualify. He also posted good results in SSL while Zest went 1-9. WeSG second place is decent as well when you consider it had all the best foreigners and a korean qualifier.
Zest is my favourate player of all time but acting like Maru did anywhere near as bad last year is factually wrong. Maru was posting average to solid results in all the events he entered. Zest on LAN was a trainwreck. And even he himself doesn't consider HSC to be a real championship, I didn't think anyone did until now.
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On June 22 2018 09:44 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 04:37 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 04:16 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 03:51 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 03:01 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. This HAS to be a joke, right? Maru had a Proleague run and then did nothing all year. Zest did FAR more in 2016, then both did very little of note in 2017, but Zest won two tournaments while Maru's best result was a second place at WESG that, in terms of quality, is actually worse than a HSC. So yeah. Proleague is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more significant than HSC for skill assessment. Zest won a GSL when Maru had his Proleague streak. His HSCs came after while Maru posted nothing. Maru didn't post nothing. He made GSL ro4 and ro8 while Zest struggled to even qualify. He also posted good results in SSL while Zest went 1-9. WeSG second place is decent as well when you consider it had all the best foreigners and a korean qualifier. Zest is my favourate player of all time but acting like Maru did anywhere near as bad last year is factually wrong. Maru was posting average to solid results in all the events he entered. Zest on LAN was a trainwreck. And even he himself doesn't consider HSC to be a real championship, I didn't think anyone did until now.
How dare you besmirch the legendary HSC. Winning 3x HSCs is what makes Taeja the undisputed GOAT.
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Anyone who expects a 4-0 is seriously underestimating of of these players.
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In China,we call Zest "Anyfin Can Happen"(The 10mana card of Paladin inHearthstone,it is translated into "Dead is back") or "King is back"
I hope Zest can retake our GSL from Jinair's hold.
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On June 22 2018 05:58 Waxangel wrote:
I'm cheering for both these guys, and I hope they show us good games ^_^
Is stuchiu still work here now?
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On June 22 2018 09:44 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2018 04:37 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 04:16 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 03:51 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 03:01 Aunvilgodess wrote:On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:On June 21 2018 22:27 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:Zest’s very opponent in this GSL final, Maru, has gone through a similarly deep slump as Zest, and look at him now. I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver). In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017. How did Maru do in 2016? He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017. Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17. This HAS to be a joke, right? Maru had a Proleague run and then did nothing all year. Zest did FAR more in 2016, then both did very little of note in 2017, but Zest won two tournaments while Maru's best result was a second place at WESG that, in terms of quality, is actually worse than a HSC. So yeah. Proleague is waaaaaaaaaaaaay more significant than HSC for skill assessment. Zest won a GSL when Maru had his Proleague streak. His HSCs came after while Maru posted nothing. Maru didn't post nothing. He made GSL ro4 and ro8 while Zest struggled to even qualify. He also posted good results in SSL while Zest went 1-9. WeSG second place is decent as well when you consider it had all the best foreigners and a korean qualifier. Zest is my favourate player of all time but acting like Maru did anywhere near as bad last year is factually wrong. Maru was posting average to solid results in all the events he entered. Zest on LAN was a trainwreck. And even he himself doesn't consider HSC to be a real championship, I didn't think anyone did until now.
I agree. Taeja is a scrub.
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Both players now are very different from what we used to watch in the past. Maru finally seems like a complete universal player and literally has no weak spots. Zest is not that huge macro player who used to predict in long games the moves and builds of his opponents. I think now at least he brought back finally his excellent execution style which is the only weapon that can use against Maru. I am a bit heartbroken because two of my favorite players didn't make it to the final in the Ro4. After what I saw against Classic, I can't imagine how anyone can beat Maru right now, but Zest is one of the best ever players in preparing for a specific matches.
Let's hope the match will be epic because whoever wins, it will be a historical victory. Go Zest!
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