• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:49
CEST 08:49
KST 15:49
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent8Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt2: Take-Off7[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway132v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature4
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues11LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments2Weekly Cups (August 25-31): Clem's Last Straw?39Weekly Cups (Aug 18-24): herO dethrones MaxPax6Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris73
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues What happened to Singapore/Brazil servers? #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Production Quality - Maestros of the Game Vs RSL 2
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around Mutation # 487 Think Fast
Brood War
General
FlaSh on ACS Winners being in ASL ASL20 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BSL Polish World Championship 2025 20-21 September [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group B [ASL20] Ro16 Group A BWCL Season 63 Announcement [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info!
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Games Industry And ATVI US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
Collective Intelligence: Tea…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1017 users

Maru vs Zest - GSL Grand Finals Preview - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
93 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
DreamOen
Profile Joined March 2010
Spain1400 Posts
June 23 2018 09:53 GMT
#81
It took Teamliquid writers longer to write this up than the finals took to be played.
Tester | MC | Crank | Flash | Jaedong | MVP
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
June 23 2018 09:56 GMT
#82
On June 23 2018 18:53 DreamOen wrote:
It took Teamliquid writers longer to write this up than the finals took to be played.

LOL. Brutal but true.
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
June 23 2018 09:56 GMT
#83
On June 22 2018 13:34 zealotstim wrote:
Anyone who expects a 4-0 is seriously underestimating of of these players.

Now the 4-0 for Maru that many expected happened though, I don't think it was a bold prediction.
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
June 23 2018 10:02 GMT
#84
On June 23 2018 18:56 HolydaKing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 22 2018 13:34 zealotstim wrote:
Anyone who expects a 4-0 is seriously underestimating of of these players.

Now the 4-0 for Maru that many expected happened though, I don't think it was a bold prediction.

It is 4-0 in prediction and in reality but I don't think the writer expected this kind of "4-0". It took 33 mins for Maru to get this 4-0. Normally, with that amount of time, we should be at 2-0 max in GSL Final.
dicey
Profile Joined November 2010
142 Posts
June 23 2018 10:13 GMT
#85
On June 23 2018 19:02 Vutalisk wrote:It took 33 mins for Maru to get this 4-0. Normally, with that amount of time, we should be at 2-0 max in GSL Final.


There should be a deal where if a final is shorter than 1h:30 (production reels and all) they'll also stream a caster FFA or dare the 3rd or 4th placed players to cheese the champion for a 2% part of his winnings; all in good fun that is.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-06-23 11:28:05
June 23 2018 11:27 GMT
#86
On June 23 2018 05:54 Olli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2018 05:33 Fango wrote:
On June 23 2018 04:28 Olli wrote:
On June 23 2018 03:57 Charoisaur wrote:
On June 22 2018 02:38 Olli wrote:
On June 22 2018 02:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:
On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:
On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:
On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:
[quote]
I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver).

In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017.


How did Maru do in 2016?

He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017.


Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17.

They really don't though, but hey maybe if you add the Game Land Invitational it could be close


Along with a Ro8 at BlizzCon? Yeah I don't see how what Maru did 2016-17 was any better than Zest's results after his peak in early 2016.

Not that that is the point, though. Nobody in 16-17 considered Maru anywhere near a championship challenger, which for a player if his caliber qualifies as a slump. A bunch of Bo1s when Proleague was incredibly weak doesn't change that.

"A bunch of Bo1s when Proleague was incredibly weak"
LOL how was Proleague incredibly weak?
If Proleague was incredibly weak then GSL was incredibly weak as well.




Because a lot of good people were either not playing SC2 seriously (Rogue, herO for example), others were simply not good at LotV yet (Classic for example), the overall level of play in Proleague was awful as people knew it was ending and teams would be disbanding, a lot of good players had already retired. Check who Maru played. I did, and aside from a few names it isn't impressive. Zest's HSC runs actually had more games against really good players - GSL champion Gumiho, Solar, ByuN, soon-to-be IEM champion Scarlett, SSL champion Stats. All Bo5+.

I will take that over Bo1s against people like Blaze, Losira, etc. and a handful of good players in Bo1s every day.

As for GSL, it wasn't as weak, because bad players get eliminated, you know? That doesn't happen in PL.


"Check who Maru played. I did, and aside from a few names it isn't impressive." holy shit, you must be joking at this point...

He took out Dear, INno, TY x3, Stats x2, Dark, Zest, Solar, Gumiho, aLive, Classic, ByuL, Bunny x2, Myungsik, Leenock, and Losira. That includes almost the entire top 10 of WCS Korea (minus ByuN).

You simply cannot downplay proleague because of the supposed level of play, and then assume HSCs mean anything at all. HSC is not a serious premier event. No high level player prepares specifically for it, or for the opponents there. Players in proleague would be crying or dancing out of their seats after matches because it was an event of great importance, it was literally their job to perform there. Many times teams even forced players to practice for SPL over individual leagues.

I doubt the top players even care that much if they win or lose there, so to put it's ridiculous for fans to give it the same weighting as proleague or starleagues. To value HSC highly is to value the minor LANs and online cups highly. The fact that Zest won HSC while failing to qualify for a GSL is not something worth highlighting.


The impressive names here are Zest, TY, Stats, Dark, Dear and Solar. That's exactly what I said. A handful of good players in Bo1s. Everyone else was bad.

I've been to four HSCs. If you think the Koreans don't take it seriously you're wrong. They go straight home after their matches and spend the entire event practicing until they're eliminated. Plus the level of play was much higher than it was in 2016 for reasons I have highlighted multiple times.

Anyway, you are still completely, 100% missing the point. Some guy tried to argue that Maru didn't go through a slump comparable to Zest's. Well, after his Proleague run Maru did literally nothing for the rest of 2016. And then did very little in 2017 too. He did a bit better than Zest in 2017, but also did very significantly worse in 2016. To suggest the two arent comparable is absurd.

The impressive names are literally every good player in korea minus ByuN. You can't call Gumiho, aLive, Classic, Myungsik etc bad when they were making ro8/ro4 in starleagues. And even INno was good in proleague.

As far as the original point goes, I think Zest and Maru both had amazing 2016s. Zest winning GSL and Maru having the best proleague run ever. In fact in terms of map score they were similar, 19-3 and 22-4. And in terms of opponents Maru played more maps against elite players.

However neither did anything amazing in 2017, it was a slump year for both of them. And Maru did better in every korean tournament. To me (and I would assume the players), those are the events that really matter. 5-4 in SSL and ro4 in GSL, those are good results. Zest went 1-9 in SSL and his peak was GSL ro32, that is significantly worse. I love HSC, but it can't make up for lacking results in real championships.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
June 23 2018 14:44 GMT
#87
I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
June 23 2018 16:03 GMT
#88
On June 23 2018 23:44 [F_]aths wrote:
I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it

the kludgerific "spoiler free" toggle fails again
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15972 Posts
June 23 2018 16:13 GMT
#89
On June 23 2018 23:44 [F_]aths wrote:
I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it

click on "show spoiler"
-complain about getting spoilered.

genius
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
June 23 2018 16:41 GMT
#90
On June 24 2018 01:13 Charoisaur wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2018 23:44 [F_]aths wrote:
I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it

click on "show spoiler"
-complain about getting spoilered.

genius


I added the spoiler after seeing his post.

Sorry that you got spoiled, mistake on my part
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
June 23 2018 17:58 GMT
#91
On June 23 2018 10:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The UFC altered the starting time of their event so it comes on at 8 AM EST right after the GSL event is over.


the UFC as in the United Fighting Championship?
XK ßubonic
Shathe
Profile Joined July 2017
Hungary422 Posts
June 23 2018 18:20 GMT
#92
Its was short because Maru chose fast strategies and didnt let Zest reach mid game with aoe.
If it was a 0-4 with macro games would have it been any better for zest? No.
Vutalisk
Profile Joined August 2016
United States680 Posts
June 23 2018 19:01 GMT
#93
On June 24 2018 03:20 Shathe wrote:
Its was short because Maru chose fast strategies and didnt let Zest reach mid game with aoe.
If it was a 0-4 with macro games would have it been any better for zest? No.

Are you serious? This is Maru. He is known for dropping left and right. At this high-level of TvP, either side will try to attack no matter what. No one will turtle at home. If they can't kill each other off then it will carry on to mid/late game. I mean game was mid-game, Zest had disruptors.
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
June 24 2018 23:26 GMT
#94
On June 24 2018 04:01 Vutalisk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2018 03:20 Shathe wrote:
Its was short because Maru chose fast strategies and didnt let Zest reach mid game with aoe.
If it was a 0-4 with macro games would have it been any better for zest? No.

Are you serious? This is Maru. He is known for dropping left and right. At this high-level of TvP, either side will try to attack no matter what. No one will turtle at home. If they can't kill each other off then it will carry on to mid/late game. I mean game was mid-game, Zest had disruptors.


Maru's game is to stop them before the storms come out. He was successful in all that.
XK ßubonic
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 11m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
CosmosSc2 39
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 753
Tasteless 250
Leta 160
ggaemo 66
sSak 59
ToSsGirL 36
Bale 29
Noble 23
Dewaltoss 9
Icarus 7
[ Show more ]
Light 0
League of Legends
JimRising 755
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K698
semphis_55
Other Games
summit1g6045
shahzam989
WinterStarcraft598
C9.Mang0316
NeuroSwarm45
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick525
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1261
• Lourlo1136
• Stunt454
Upcoming Events
Afreeca Starleague
3h 11m
BeSt vs Alone
Queen vs Bisu
Kung Fu Cup
5h 11m
TaeJa vs Classic
Creator vs SHIN
Rogue vs MaxPax
PiGosaur Monday
17h 11m
Kung Fu Cup
1d 5h
ByuN vs HeRoMaRinE
OSC
1d 9h
OSC
1d 17h
RSL Revival
2 days
Cure vs SHIN
Reynor vs Zoun
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Classic vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Maru
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Dewalt
BSL Team Wars
3 days
RSL Revival
4 days
Maestros of the Game
4 days
ShoWTimE vs Classic
Clem vs herO
Serral vs Bunny
Reynor vs Zoun
Cosmonarchy
4 days
Bonyth vs Dewalt
[BSL 2025] Weekly
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Maestros of the Game
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Snow vs Sharp
Jaedong vs Mini
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Copa Latinoamericana 4
SEL Season 2 Championship
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21: BSL Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
EC S1
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.