It is 4-0 in prediction and in reality but I don't think the writer expected this kind of "4-0". It took 33 mins for Maru to get this 4-0. Normally, with that amount of time, we should be at 2-0 max in GSL Final.

dicey

142 Posts

June 23 2018 10:13 GMT

#85

On June 23 2018 19:02 Vutalisk wrote:It took 33 mins for Maru to get this 4-0. Normally, with that amount of time, we should be at 2-0 max in GSL Final.

There should be a deal where if a final is shorter than 1h:30 (production reels and all) they'll also stream a caster FFA or dare the 3rd or 4th placed players to cheese the champion for a 2% part of his winnings; all in good fun that is.

Fango

United Kingdom8987 Posts

June 23 2018 11:27 GMT

#86

On June 23 2018 05:54 Olli wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 23 2018 05:33 Fango wrote:

On June 23 2018 04:28 Olli wrote:

On June 23 2018 03:57 Charoisaur wrote:

On June 22 2018 02:38 Olli wrote:

On June 22 2018 02:16 The_Red_Viper wrote:

On June 22 2018 01:48 Olli wrote:

On June 22 2018 01:20 Fango wrote:

On June 22 2018 00:59 Olli wrote:

On June 22 2018 00:46 Fango wrote:
[quote]
I don't think Maru is that great an example here. 2017 was his worst year since wol, but he still had respectable results (gsl ro4/8, wesg silver).

In comparison, Zest last year was borderline irrelevent in premier events. And while his current form is undeniably much better, he doesn't appear to be rivaling his peaks of the past. The only recovery similar to Zest potentially winning GSL would be INno's transition from 2016 > 2017.

How did Maru do in 2016?

He had the best proleague run in sc2 history. Even if he didn't show up for individual leagues that year, it's undeniable that he was one of the best players in the world. The same can't really be said for Zest's 2017.

Zest won two tournaments. They're HSCs, but they add up to being comparable to Maru's achievements in 2016-17.

They really don't though, but hey maybe if you add the Game Land Invitational it could be close

Along with a Ro8 at BlizzCon? Yeah I don't see how what Maru did 2016-17 was any better than Zest's results after his peak in early 2016.

Not that that is the point, though. Nobody in 16-17 considered Maru anywhere near a championship challenger, which for a player if his caliber qualifies as a slump. A bunch of Bo1s when Proleague was incredibly weak doesn't change that.

"A bunch of Bo1s when Proleague was incredibly weak"
LOL how was Proleague incredibly weak?
If Proleague was incredibly weak then GSL was incredibly weak as well.

Because a lot of good people were either not playing SC2 seriously (Rogue, herO for example), others were simply not good at LotV yet (Classic for example), the overall level of play in Proleague was awful as people knew it was ending and teams would be disbanding, a lot of good players had already retired. Check who Maru played. I did, and aside from a few names it isn't impressive. Zest's HSC runs actually had more games against really good players - GSL champion Gumiho, Solar, ByuN, soon-to-be IEM champion Scarlett, SSL champion Stats. All Bo5+.

I will take that over Bo1s against people like Blaze, Losira, etc. and a handful of good players in Bo1s every day.

As for GSL, it wasn't as weak, because bad players get eliminated, you know? That doesn't happen in PL.

"Check who Maru played. I did, and aside from a few names it isn't impressive." holy shit, you must be joking at this point...

He took out Dear, INno, TY x3, Stats x2, Dark, Zest, Solar, Gumiho, aLive, Classic, ByuL, Bunny x2, Myungsik, Leenock, and Losira. That includes almost the entire top 10 of WCS Korea (minus ByuN).

You simply cannot downplay proleague because of the supposed level of play, and then assume HSCs mean anything at all. HSC is not a serious premier event. No high level player prepares specifically for it, or for the opponents there. Players in proleague would be crying or dancing out of their seats after matches because it was an event of great importance, it was literally their job to perform there. Many times teams even forced players to practice for SPL over individual leagues.

I doubt the top players even care that much if they win or lose there, so to put it's ridiculous for fans to give it the same weighting as proleague or starleagues. To value HSC highly is to value the minor LANs and online cups highly. The fact that Zest won HSC while failing to qualify for a GSL is not something worth highlighting.

The impressive names here are Zest, TY, Stats, Dark, Dear and Solar. That's exactly what I said. A handful of good players in Bo1s. Everyone else was bad.

I've been to four HSCs. If you think the Koreans don't take it seriously you're wrong. They go straight home after their matches and spend the entire event practicing until they're eliminated. Plus the level of play was much higher than it was in 2016 for reasons I have highlighted multiple times.

Anyway, you are still completely, 100% missing the point. Some guy tried to argue that Maru didn't go through a slump comparable to Zest's. Well, after his Proleague run Maru did literally nothing for the rest of 2016. And then did very little in 2017 too. He did a bit better than Zest in 2017, but also did very significantly worse in 2016. To suggest the two arent comparable is absurd.

The impressive names are literally every good player in korea minus ByuN. You can't call Gumiho, aLive, Classic, Myungsik etc bad when they were making ro8/ro4 in starleagues. And even INno was good in proleague.

As far as the original point goes, I think Zest and Maru both had amazing 2016s. Zest winning GSL and Maru having the best proleague run ever. In fact in terms of map score they were similar, 19-3 and 22-4. And in terms of opponents Maru played more maps against elite players.

However neither did anything amazing in 2017, it was a slump year for both of them. And Maru did better in every korean tournament. To me (and I would assume the players), those are the events that really matter. 5-4 in SSL and ro4 in GSL, those are good results. Zest went 1-9 in SSL and his peak was GSL ro32, that is significantly worse. I love HSC, but it can't make up for lacking results in real championships.

[F_]aths

Germany3947 Posts

June 23 2018 14:44 GMT

#87

I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it

necrosexy

451 Posts

June 23 2018 16:03 GMT

#88

On June 23 2018 23:44 [F_]aths wrote:
I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it

the kludgerific "spoiler free" toggle fails again

Charoisaur

Germany16062 Posts

June 23 2018 16:13 GMT

#89

On June 23 2018 23:44 [F_]aths wrote:
I looked into this *preview* and the bracket at the bottom spoiled it

click on "show spoiler"
-complain about getting spoilered.

genius

Olli

Austria24422 Posts

June 23 2018 16:41 GMT

#90

On June 24 2018 01:13 Charoisaur wrote:

Show nested quote +

click on "show spoiler"
-complain about getting spoilered.

genius

I added the spoiler after seeing his post.

Sorry that you got spoiled, mistake on my part

Bub

United States3518 Posts

June 23 2018 17:58 GMT

#91

On June 23 2018 10:03 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
The UFC altered the starting time of their event so it comes on at 8 AM EST right after the GSL event is over.

the UFC as in the United Fighting Championship?

Shathe

Hungary422 Posts

June 23 2018 18:20 GMT

#92

Its was short because Maru chose fast strategies and didnt let Zest reach mid game with aoe.
If it was a 0-4 with macro games would have it been any better for zest? No.

Vutalisk

United States680 Posts

June 23 2018 19:01 GMT

#93

On June 24 2018 03:20 Shathe wrote:
Its was short because Maru chose fast strategies and didnt let Zest reach mid game with aoe.
If it was a 0-4 with macro games would have it been any better for zest? No.

Are you serious? This is Maru. He is known for dropping left and right. At this high-level of TvP, either side will try to attack no matter what. No one will turtle at home. If they can't kill each other off then it will carry on to mid/late game. I mean game was mid-game, Zest had disruptors.

Bub

United States3518 Posts

June 24 2018 23:26 GMT

#94

On June 24 2018 04:01 Vutalisk wrote:

Show nested quote +

Maru's game is to stop them before the storms come out. He was successful in all that.