The GSL Code S round of 32 continued with Group B, where former Code S champion GuMiho comfortably advanced in first place without a single loss. GuMiho showed the range of his TvZ arsenal in his series against Losira and Scarlett, going for hellbat timings, mech play, and some old-fashioned infantry + tanks. Patience advanced in second place, overwhelming both Losira and Scarlett with late-game Protoss armies.
Similar to Elazer in Group A, foreign player Scarlett was stopped just a single map win away from reaching the Code S RO16. Also like Elazer, her downfall came in the late game, as she was unable to find an answer against Patience's roving army of death.
GSL Code S continues on Wednesday, Apr 25 9:30am GMT (GMT+00:00) with Group C of the RO32, featuring sOs, TRUE, KeeN, and Solar.
Haven't watched the game, but I do think Gumiho is permanently underated. He is not a bad player. Bracket luck last year for his GSL win or not. It still means he is really good. Only Terran who really performed signficantly better this year was Maru.
What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
Yes. Good. Let the hate flow through you. Seriously though, people seem pretty salty that Scarlett has been doing well in GSL lately. Oh well, your loss. GGs to all.
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
Rogue?
There was an article written about Rogue on the topic. I doubt we'll ever see a similar one written about this player.
Both matches of Scarlett vs. Patience were among the worst games I have seen in a long time. It was 2 players competing to see who can make the biggest blunders. We saw Scarlett a-moving 7 Broodlords across the map, Patience sending 5 Tempests on a suicide mission into the Zerg base only for one of them to survive through no skill of his own, and then see that lone survivor take down almost all the remaining Broodlords because no one was paying any attention to a red-health capital ship wailing away at the most expensive unit in the army. 34 Mutas lost to randomly flying into Blink Stalkers and Archons. Initiating a base trade and then forgetting the win condition of a base trade in the process. The amount of units lost because neither side was paying attention to the minimap and alerts was mind-boggling.
Someone in the LR thread asked whether we could just end the group and let no one advance in 2nd place.
On April 22 2018 02:02 Nezgar wrote: Both matches of Scarlett vs. Patience were among the worst games I have seen in a long time. It was 2 players competing to see who can make the biggest blunders. We saw Scarlett a-moving 7 Broodlords across the map, Patience sending 5 Tempests on a suicide mission into the Zerg base only for one of them to survive through no skill of his own, and then see that lone survivor take down almost all the remaining Broodlords because no one was paying any attention to a red-health capital ship wailing away at the most expensive unit in the army. 34 Mutas lost to randomly flying into Blink Stalkers and Archons. Initiating a base trade and then forgetting the win condition of a base trade in the process. The amount of units lost because neither side was paying attention to the minimap and alerts was mind-boggling.
Someone in the LR thread asked whether we could just end the group and let no one advance in 2nd place.
The 7 broodlords was Losira, but yeah, pretty bad series by both players. Says more about Scarlett, I think, given her success last season and then not being able to make it out of the arguably easiest group in the Ro32
On April 22 2018 02:02 Nezgar wrote: Both matches of Scarlett vs. Patience were among the worst games I have seen in a long time. It was 2 players competing to see who can make the biggest blunders. We saw Scarlett a-moving 7 Broodlords across the map, Patience sending 5 Tempests on a suicide mission into the Zerg base only for one of them to survive through no skill of his own, and then see that lone survivor take down almost all the remaining Broodlords because no one was paying any attention to a red-health capital ship wailing away at the most expensive unit in the army. 34 Mutas lost to randomly flying into Blink Stalkers and Archons. Initiating a base trade and then forgetting the win condition of a base trade in the process. The amount of units lost because neither side was paying attention to the minimap and alerts was mind-boggling.
Someone in the LR thread asked whether we could just end the group and let no one advance in 2nd place.
The 7 broodlords was Losira, but yeah, pretty bad series by both players. Says more about Scarlett, I think, given her success last season and then not being able to make it out of the arguably easiest group in the Ro32
When you are favored, upsets work against you. Scarlett upset last season, now Scarlett gets upset. And so the circle continues.
On April 22 2018 02:02 Nezgar wrote: Both matches of Scarlett vs. Patience were among the worst games I have seen in a long time. It was 2 players competing to see who can make the biggest blunders. We saw Scarlett a-moving 7 Broodlords across the map, Patience sending 5 Tempests on a suicide mission into the Zerg base only for one of them to survive through no skill of his own, and then see that lone survivor take down almost all the remaining Broodlords because no one was paying any attention to a red-health capital ship wailing away at the most expensive unit in the army. 34 Mutas lost to randomly flying into Blink Stalkers and Archons. Initiating a base trade and then forgetting the win condition of a base trade in the process. The amount of units lost because neither side was paying attention to the minimap and alerts was mind-boggling.
Someone in the LR thread asked whether we could just end the group and let no one advance in 2nd place.
The 7 broodlords was Losira, but yeah, pretty bad series by both players. Says more about Scarlett, I think, given her success last season and then not being able to make it out of the arguably easiest group in the Ro32
I think you are correct on the Broodlords. But yeah, the Losira games were no better and I should have probably included them in my post as well.
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
Solely? You're not allowed to dislike someone because they've whined repeatedly over the years and said to delete one of the races? You're not allowed to dislike someone because they exploit a loophole in the rules to the detriment of other players who don't have that option?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
Solely? You're not allowed to dislike someone because they've whined repeatedly over the years and said to delete one of the races? You're not allowed to dislike someone because they exploit a loophole in the rules to the detriment of other players who don't have that option?
I don't know why you're singling out Scarlett when pretty much everyone who didn't play Protoss in HotS complained about the race. And I hardly see foreigners playing in GSL as a loophole when it's explicitly in the rules that they're allowed to do that.
On April 22 2018 02:02 Nezgar wrote: Both matches of Scarlett vs. Patience were among the worst games I have seen in a long time. It was 2 players competing to see who can make the biggest blunders. We saw Scarlett a-moving 7 Broodlords across the map, Patience sending 5 Tempests on a suicide mission into the Zerg base only for one of them to survive through no skill of his own, and then see that lone survivor take down almost all the remaining Broodlords because no one was paying any attention to a red-health capital ship wailing away at the most expensive unit in the army. 34 Mutas lost to randomly flying into Blink Stalkers and Archons. Initiating a base trade and then forgetting the win condition of a base trade in the process. The amount of units lost because neither side was paying attention to the minimap and alerts was mind-boggling.
Someone in the LR thread asked whether we could just end the group and let no one advance in 2nd place.
The 7 broodlords was Losira, but yeah, pretty bad series by both players. Says more about Scarlett, I think, given her success last season and then not being able to make it out of the arguably easiest group in the Ro32
When you are favored, upsets work against you. Scarlett upset last season, now Scarlett gets upset. And so the circle continues.
Scarlett winning wasnt an upset, it was simply cheesed. That was patched
As a Losira fan from back in the day (I think I might be in his fan club on here?), those games against Gumiho were pretty rough to watch. It sounds like if he had surgery recently he probably didn't get to play as much for the last little bit because he seemed pretty rough here.
On April 22 2018 12:19 ThunderJunk wrote: I'm still waiting for Zergs to start using Nydus more.
I'm continually surprised it isn't used way more against Protoss too. It's so strong, stopping it requires an almost perfect response and it hits before even warp gate is done usually. On maps like Backwater where Protoss often tries to do quick thirds it's particularly deadly.
I did think Scarlett is the second best player in this group by a small margin. But let's be real, she's not an overwhelming favorite to advance. She played too 'comfortably' and did not play like an underdog like last season, almost as if she expected to win by just getting to the late game. She mixed in a lot of aggressive builds last season and that's what got her into Ro8. A single Ro8 appearance does not earn you the right to come unprepared in GSL. Last night she gave a very uninspiring performance. Next season, the group will not be this easy.
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
I don't think he dislikes Scarlett because of her nationality. He's quite clearly against players having unfair advantages and opportunities. So naturally he favours the ones who are more restricted, which in this case happened to be the koreans.
What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
I cant believe how effective gumhios early pressure was in his tvz's. Usually when ive seen him do things like that hellbat+ marine build it gets slapped down or trades evenly but somehow this time he got 2 wins off it. I wonder if his opponents prepared properly for him since it feals like hes always liked to mix in these kind of pushes in his series. hes been doing some variant of marine hellion pressure into mech for years at this point and I expected the zerg players to have a better plan to stop it.
I was rooting for Scarlet but she didn't deserve to advance based on a couple big mistakes. She had Gumiho on the ropes in game 2 then A-moved into one of the worst tank chokes I've ever seen that lost her the game and series.
Then, I loved seeing her big muta-ball against Patience, but she kept attacking archons and stalkers instead of just harassing mineral lines. Very confusing play.
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
On April 21 2018 22:47 Boggyb wrote: What do you call someone who wins a championship right after their race was buffed to the heavens after doing nothing for years, then immediately falls back to earth when the race is brought back in line?
What do you call someone who actively attacks people based solely on the country they are from?
Solely? You're not allowed to dislike someone because they've whined repeatedly over the years and said to delete one of the races? You're not allowed to dislike someone because they exploit a loophole in the rules to the detriment of other players who don't have that option?
Don't forget the skin incident. One of the worst examples of poor sportsmanship I can remember.
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I suppose you'll cheer against Ragnarok, TRUE, and Masa when they compete in WCS because they're subverting the rules?
Plus, TRUE is actually taking major spots away from foreigners in all the tournaments he's attended. Though he was not able to compete in the GSL, he did qualify for and play in the ST.
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I suppose you'll cheer against Ragnarok, TRUE, and Masa when they compete in WCS because they're subverting the rules?
Plus, TRUE is actually taking major spots away from foreigners in all the tournaments he's attended. Though he was not able to compete in the GSL, he did qualify for and play in the ST.
TRUE only really attempted to break the spirit of the rules when he wanted to compete in the GSL, GSL Super Tournament, AND WCS circuit events. He only tried to do that after it was well established that Blizzard wasn't going to do anything about the other players doing the same. When TRUE emigrated from Korea so he could play in the WCS Circuit, he was following the spirit and letter of the rules. The idea was that living in Korea gave players an advantage, so by leaving, he gave up that alleged advantage.
the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I suppose you'll cheer against Ragnarok, TRUE, and Masa when they compete in WCS because they're subverting the rules?
Plus, TRUE is actually taking major spots away from foreigners in all the tournaments he's attended. Though he was not able to compete in the GSL, he did qualify for and play in the ST.
TRUE only really attempted to break the spirit of the rules when he wanted to compete in the GSL, GSL Super Tournament, AND WCS circuit events. He only tried to do that after it was well established that Blizzard wasn't going to do anything about the other players doing the same. When TRUE emigrated from Korea so he could play in the WCS Circuit, he was following the spirit and letter of the rules. The idea was that living in Korea gave players an advantage, so by leaving, he gave up that alleged advantage.
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I'm glad you have an opinion on the current system! That's great! It shows you are capable of rational thought. I would encourage you to lobby Blizzard directly instead of wishing others ill will, I think you will find this to be more helpful, healthy and effective.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
My point exactly. The players have nothing to do with it, I don't see what any of them have done to deserve the level of vitriol they are receiving.
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I'm glad you have an opinion on the current system! That's great! It shows you are capable of rational thought. I would encourage you to lobby Blizzard directly instead of wishing others ill will, I think you will find this to be more helpful, healthy and effective.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
My point exactly. The players have nothing to do with it, I don't see what any of them have done to deserve the level of vitriol they are receiving.
The pros complaint about the "Korean Situation". Restricting WCS was reacting to feedback
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I suppose you'll cheer against Ragnarok, TRUE, and Masa when they compete in WCS because they're subverting the rules?
Plus, TRUE is actually taking major spots away from foreigners in all the tournaments he's attended. Though he was not able to compete in the GSL, he did qualify for and play in the ST.
TRUE only really attempted to break the spirit of the rules when he wanted to compete in the GSL, GSL Super Tournament, AND WCS circuit events. He only tried to do that after it was well established that Blizzard wasn't going to do anything about the other players doing the same. When TRUE emigrated from Korea so he could play in the WCS Circuit, he was following the spirit and letter of the rules. The idea was that living in Korea gave players an advantage, so by leaving, he gave up that alleged advantage.
That's fair. I can definitely respect that.
But with Project Unity and the inhouse tournament they ran, I feel like that is giving back to the community. And because of how skilled (or not) they are, most of the foreigners aren't even playing in tournaments for a longer period of time because they get knocked so quickly. So even if they technically have access to more tournaments, they aren't usually playing in those tournaments longer than a ro32 Korean.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
I can't blame the foreigners who use every advantage possible, even unfair ones. They're just being rational humans.
I can't respect someone who deliberately exploits unfair advantages, though. Even if it is just being rational.
On April 23 2018 07:50 Arghmyliver wrote: What if instead of drinking haterade and feeling sorry for people we just said GGs all, congrats to the winners, better luck next time to the losers? Or would that be too mature for this like 20 year old community? If you have a problem with the system that's fine but I don't think being passive (or actively) aggressive to the players is an intelligent solution.
But I don't want foreigners to have better luck next time. As long as the WCS is locked for Koreans I want GSL to be locked for foreigners.
So, uhm, no?
I'm glad you have an opinion on the current system! That's great! It shows you are capable of rational thought. I would encourage you to lobby Blizzard directly instead of wishing others ill will, I think you will find this to be more helpful, healthy and effective.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
My point exactly. The players have nothing to do with it, I don't see what any of them have done to deserve the level of vitriol they are receiving.
The pros complaint about the "Korean Situation". Restricting WCS was reacting to feedback
That's great. I don't think that gives license to ubiquitously demean foreignors in the GSL or Koreans in WCS. That just seems meanspirited and petty.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
I can't blame the foreigners who use every advantage possible, even unfair ones. They're just being rational humans.
I can't respect someone who deliberately exploits unfair advantages, though. Even if it is just being rational.
I don't know if I'm willing to ascribe that level of malicious intent to someone for playing in two regions. The GSL has long been the holy grail of starcraft talent. It only makes sense that players would try to compete in it. I don't think foreignors are doing so with malice aforethought.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
I can't blame the foreigners who use every advantage possible, even unfair ones. They're just being rational humans.
I can't respect someone who deliberately exploits unfair advantages, though. Even if it is just being rational.
You could say that Koreans living in Korea and playing in WCS America was doing just this (and to a lesser extent WCS EU). They were exploiting the fact that they didn't need to live in America and just played, won, and left. Of course, while some Koreans did actually live and play in America, many did not.
Or conversely, you could say the Koreans were exploiting their cultural and team house advantage by playing in every tournament possible from 2011-2014 and causing the collapse of the foreign scene.
But of course, their actions were a result of no regulation from 2011-2012 and not limited enough regulation in 2013-2014. They naturally gravitated towards the competitions, and it was really up to Blizzard to create a league where lesser players could compete and earn a living.
So I don't have any ire towards Koreans then, and neither do I have any ire towards foreigners now. Players will gravitate towards opportunities, and it's on Blizzard to create the rules in a way that supports all scenes while not being so entirely restrictive.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
I can't blame the foreigners who use every advantage possible, even unfair ones. They're just being rational humans.
I can't respect someone who deliberately exploits unfair advantages, though. Even if it is just being rational.
I don't know if I'm willing to ascribe that level of malicious intent to someone for playing in two regions. The GSL has long been the holy grail of starcraft talent. It only makes sense that players would try to compete in it. I don't think foreignors are doing so with malice aforethought.
Not sure why you are bringing malice into this, I never mentioned malicious intent. Only deliberate intent.
The foreigners are making a conscious choice to play in both GSL and WCS. This is a deliberate action on their part, and permitted under region-lock, and they are fully aware that region-lock forbids Koreans from doing the same.
On April 23 2018 22:39 brickrd wrote: the fact that people want to place blame on foreign OR korean players for degrading the scene is endlessly astonishing to me. in the sc2 industry the players are workers, and workers follow what they think are the most attractive job prospects. they're simply players trying to play
sometimes a game slows down because its time has passed, it's not always the result of some dramatic incompetence we need to whine about
I can't blame the foreigners who use every advantage possible, even unfair ones. They're just being rational humans.
I can't respect someone who deliberately exploits unfair advantages, though. Even if it is just being rational.
You could say that Koreans living in Korea and playing in WCS America was doing just this (and to a lesser extent WCS EU). They were exploiting the fact that they didn't need to live in America and just played, won, and left. Of course, while some Koreans did actually live and play in America, many did not.
Or conversely, you could say the Koreans were exploiting their cultural and team house advantage by playing in every tournament possible from 2011-2014 and causing the collapse of the foreign scene.
But of course, their actions were a result of no regulation from 2011-2012 and not limited enough regulation in 2013-2014. They naturally gravitated towards the competitions, and it was really up to Blizzard to create a league where lesser players could compete and earn a living.
So I don't have any ire towards Koreans then, and neither do I have any ire towards foreigners now. Players will gravitate towards opportunities, and it's on Blizzard to create the rules in a way that supports all scenes while not being so entirely restrictive.
You really can't say the same at all.
I believe I have discussed this issue before with you. The Koreans had an "organic advantage" by virtue of being born in a nation with an established esports infrastructure. None of them chose to be born Korean, and thus we while you could argue they had an unfair advantage, it was not one that any of them deliberately chose to have.
The foreigners, on the other hand, have an "artificial advantage" courtesy of region-lock. Unlike the Koreans being born into a system, the foreigners are making a conscious and deliberate choice to embrace the unfair advantage this gives them. They are totally free to decide otherwise. Serral, for instance, remains within his own region and does not exploit the system.
The Koreans never made a choice. The foreigners did, and still are. I don't blame them for it; I would probably do the same if I were them. But I can't respect them for it either.
Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
Why not? Could you respect the first weightlifter for leveraging his upbringing to achieve victory? Why doesn't he take the steroids too if they are safe, healthy, and legal? If he is being forbidden by the government then surely the government deserves your derision rather than the underprivileged weightlifter. Once again your issue is with the system and not the player.
The analogy breaks down anyways because you are implying an inherent advantage for one party and a permant disadvantage for the other that is insurmountable without a permanent external intervention. Clearly that is not the case in this situation. Maybe the time for the region lock has passed, maybe it was never necessary to begin with, regardless your issue is with an imbalance you perceive in the system. Region lock doesn't make the GSL any less competitive - it seems petty at best not to respect the legitimate accomplishments of players because of where they are from. If anything foreigners in the GSL should have more respect as they CHOOSE to compete in the more inclusive and therefore more competitive region. Using your analogy, consider an island of world reknowned weightlifters who are barred from competition elsewhere due to their dominance. Some weightlifters from other countries dare to travel to the island and challenge them, but when they are successful you consider that accomplishment somehow diminished because of the ban?
I just don't see why it's so difficult to acknowledge players' success and criticize the system simultaneously.
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
Why not? Could you respect the first weightlifter for leveraging his upbringing to achieve victory? Why doesn't he take the steroids too if they are safe, healthy, and legal? If he is being forbidden by the government then surely the government deserves your derision rather than the underprivileged weightlifter. Once again your issue is with the system and not the player.
The analogy breaks down anyways because you are implying an inherent advantage for one party and a permant disadvantage for the other that is insurmountable without a permanent external intervention. Clearly that is not the case in this situation. Maybe the time for the region lock has passed, maybe it was never necessary to begin with, regardless your issue is with an imbalance you perceive in the system. Region lock doesn't make the GSL any less competitive - it seems petty at best not to respect the legitimate accomplishments of players because of where they are from. If anything foreigners in the GSL should have more respect as they CHOOSE to compete in the more inclusive and therefore more competitive region. Using your analogy, consider an island of world reknowned weightlifters who are barred from competition elsewhere due to their dominance. Some weightlifters from other countries dare to travel to the island and challenge them, but when they are successful you consider that accomplishment somehow diminished because of the ban?
I just don't see why it's so difficult to acknowledge players' success and criticize the system simultaneously.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Do you see me applauding region-lock? I don't like Blizzard for implementing it, and I don't like the foreigners for exploiting it.
I would respect the foreigners if they did what you said; if Scarlett, Major, etc, withdrew from all WCS events to play in GSL (like, yknow, the way Blizzard forces the Koreans to do), I would respect them immensely. But they are doing no such thing. They're having their cake and eating it too, and I can't respect that.
And as far as I can tell, "insurmountable without a permanent external intervention" describes SC2 perfectly. The gap hasn't actually narrowed, per se, between Korea and the foreign scene. Or at least not enough to be truly significant. While it is certainly true that there are far more foreigners these days at the level of mid-tier Koreans, the top Koreans are as untouchable as ever. Of course there are always the occasional upsets or cheeses or whatever, but that sort of thing was happening well before region-lock and hasn't changed. Inno vs Naniwa happened years ago, as did Life vs Sjow. Neeb looked like he might be the start of something more, but turned out to just be the most dramatic example.
The favorite sons of KeSPA are still unrivaled and, in all likelihood, will remain so until they are forced to step down to enlist.
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
Why not? Could you respect the first weightlifter for leveraging his upbringing to achieve victory? Why doesn't he take the steroids too if they are safe, healthy, and legal? If he is being forbidden by the government then surely the government deserves your derision rather than the underprivileged weightlifter. Once again your issue is with the system and not the player.
The analogy breaks down anyways because you are implying an inherent advantage for one party and a permant disadvantage for the other that is insurmountable without a permanent external intervention. Clearly that is not the case in this situation. Maybe the time for the region lock has passed, maybe it was never necessary to begin with, regardless your issue is with an imbalance you perceive in the system. Region lock doesn't make the GSL any less competitive - it seems petty at best not to respect the legitimate accomplishments of players because of where they are from. If anything foreigners in the GSL should have more respect as they CHOOSE to compete in the more inclusive and therefore more competitive region. Using your analogy, consider an island of world reknowned weightlifters who are barred from competition elsewhere due to their dominance. Some weightlifters from other countries dare to travel to the island and challenge them, but when they are successful you consider that accomplishment somehow diminished because of the ban?
I just don't see why it's so difficult to acknowledge players' success and criticize the system simultaneously.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Do you see me applauding region-lock? I don't like Blizzard for implementing it, and I don't like the foreigners for exploiting it.
I would respect the foreigners if they did what you said; if Scarlett, Major, etc, withdrew from all WCS events to play in GSL (like, yknow, the way Blizzard forces the Koreans to do), I would respect them immensely. But they are doing no such thing. They're having their cake and eating it too, and I can't respect that.
And as far as I can tell, "insurmountable without a permanent external intervention" describes SC2 perfectly. The gap hasn't actually narrowed, per se, between Korea and the foreign scene. Or at least not enough to be truly significant. While it is certainly true that there are far more foreigners these days at the level of mid-tier Koreans, the top Koreans are as untouchable as ever. Of course there are always the occasional upsets or cheeses or whatever, but that sort of thing was happening well before region-lock and hasn't changed. Inno vs Naniwa happened years ago, as did Life vs Sjow. Neeb looked like he might be the start of something more, but turned out to just be the most dramatic example.
The favorite sons of KeSPA are still unrivaled and, in all likelihood, will remain so until they are forced to step down to enlist.
I dunno dude, it just seems like your "lack of respect" is a little melodramatic and your energy a little misplaced if you genuinely care about addressing the issue. But you do you! I disagree with your methods and your mentality but I still respect you : ). I only ask you perhaps consider extending the same courtesy to the players in question.
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
Why not? Could you respect the first weightlifter for leveraging his upbringing to achieve victory? Why doesn't he take the steroids too if they are safe, healthy, and legal? If he is being forbidden by the government then surely the government deserves your derision rather than the underprivileged weightlifter. Once again your issue is with the system and not the player.
The analogy breaks down anyways because you are implying an inherent advantage for one party and a permant disadvantage for the other that is insurmountable without a permanent external intervention. Clearly that is not the case in this situation. Maybe the time for the region lock has passed, maybe it was never necessary to begin with, regardless your issue is with an imbalance you perceive in the system. Region lock doesn't make the GSL any less competitive - it seems petty at best not to respect the legitimate accomplishments of players because of where they are from. If anything foreigners in the GSL should have more respect as they CHOOSE to compete in the more inclusive and therefore more competitive region. Using your analogy, consider an island of world reknowned weightlifters who are barred from competition elsewhere due to their dominance. Some weightlifters from other countries dare to travel to the island and challenge them, but when they are successful you consider that accomplishment somehow diminished because of the ban?
I just don't see why it's so difficult to acknowledge players' success and criticize the system simultaneously.
The two are not mutually exclusive. Do you see me applauding region-lock? I don't like Blizzard for implementing it, and I don't like the foreigners for exploiting it.
I would respect the foreigners if they did what you said; if Scarlett, Major, etc, withdrew from all WCS events to play in GSL (like, yknow, the way Blizzard forces the Koreans to do), I would respect them immensely. But they are doing no such thing. They're having their cake and eating it too, and I can't respect that.
And as far as I can tell, "insurmountable without a permanent external intervention" describes SC2 perfectly. The gap hasn't actually narrowed, per se, between Korea and the foreign scene. Or at least not enough to be truly significant. While it is certainly true that there are far more foreigners these days at the level of mid-tier Koreans, the top Koreans are as untouchable as ever. Of course there are always the occasional upsets or cheeses or whatever, but that sort of thing was happening well before region-lock and hasn't changed. Inno vs Naniwa happened years ago, as did Life vs Sjow. Neeb looked like he might be the start of something more, but turned out to just be the most dramatic example.
The favorite sons of KeSPA are still unrivaled and, in all likelihood, will remain so until they are forced to step down to enlist.
I dunno dude, it just seems like your "lack of respect" is a little melodramatic and your energy a little misplaced if you genuinely care about addressing the issue. But you do you! I disagree with your methods and your mentality but I still respect you : ). I only ask you perhaps consider extending the same courtesy to the players in question.
Let's be real, Blizzard does what it does for financial reasons, not what the fans think. The two are sometimes correlated, but fan sentiment is never their first priority. Especially not with something as polarizing as region-lock.
Also being real, Scarlett, Major, Elazer, etc, don't care about my respect, or lack thereof, any more than I care about theirs. I like to watch them play SC2 and they like to play SC2 (or like whatever rewards playing gets them). Personal opinions really aren't important here. I very much doubt they will ever even hear of me.
Melodramatic? I don't hate them, and "dislike" seemed too personal–afaik they are normal people–so I thought "respect" was the best word in that context to express disapproval of their choices.
Your yearly reminder that it was the community who pushed for the region lock, thus creating this awesome situation of "Urgh I can't believe there is no region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing" straight into a "Urgh I can't believe there is a region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing".
On April 24 2018 06:17 Nebuchad wrote: Your yearly reminder that it was the community who pushed for the region lock, thus creating this awesome situation of "Urgh I can't believe there is no region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing" straight into a "Urgh I can't believe there is a region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing".
Different people have different opinions on the same issue. News at 11.
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
That's not really an apt comparison because it assumes that the steroids equalize the the second weightlifters to that of the first weightlifters, when in reality, it does not.
To be an apt comparison, you should also add that the first weightlifter has his or her own state-sponsored wrestling competition, whereas the second weightlifter does not have his or her own state-sponsored wrestling competition.
However, in this example, the wrestling board has created all these other tournaments that anyone can enter in regardless of skill. Because the first wrestler had all the advantages, of course they dominate.
So in response, the wrestling body creates an amateur league where only the second wrestler and those of his or her skill can compete. Someone who is perfectly qualified can compete in the amateur league, but only if he or she relinquishes his or her spot in the first league. Because that person naturally competed in the first league, he or she cannot leverage those advantages both ways in that he/she is capable of competing in the first league and dominating in the amateur league.
However, because the second wrestler is at a lower skill level, he is able to compete in the higher league to get experience. There's no expectation that the second wrestler will do well because of the difference in skill, but they are able to get experience.
This is a more apt comparison, and where the analogy breaks down is that the amateur league has increased while the primary league has decreased to the point where although the first league is still generally stronger, the amateurs are able to more competitively compete in the first league. However, the amateurs are still largely inferior to those from the first league.
So it sounds like we need a mid-tier league where the best of the amateur league and the worst of the primary league can compete.
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
That's not really an apt comparison because it assumes that the steroids equalize the the second weightlifters to that of the first weightlifters, when in reality, it does not.
To be an apt comparison, you should also add that the first weightlifter has his or her own state-sponsored wrestling competition, whereas the second weightlifter does not have his or her own state-sponsored wrestling competition.
However, in this example, the wrestling board has created all these other tournaments that anyone can enter in regardless of skill. Because the first wrestler had all the advantages, of course they dominate.
So in response, the wrestling body creates an amateur league where only the second wrestler and those of his or her skill can compete. Someone who is perfectly qualified can compete in the amateur league, but only if he or she relinquishes his or her spot in the first league. Because that person naturally competed in the first league, he or she cannot leverage those advantages both ways in that he/she is capable of competing in the first league and dominating in the amateur league.
However, because the second wrestler is at a lower skill level, he is able to compete in the higher league to get experience. There's no expectation that the second wrestler will do well because of the difference in skill, but they are able to get experience.
This is a more apt comparison, and where the analogy breaks down is that the amateur league has increased while the primary league has decreased to the point where although the first league is still generally stronger, the amateurs are able to more competitively compete in the first league. However, the amateurs are still largely inferior to those from the first league.
So it sounds like we need a mid-tier league where the best of the amateur league and the worst of the primary league can compete.
If you replace "wrestling" with "SC2" this just gets us back to reality, which kinda defeats the whole point of using an analogy.
That being said, I do agree with your conclusion of a mid-tier league where players of all nationalities can compete with others according to skill level.
On April 24 2018 06:17 Nebuchad wrote: Your yearly reminder that it was the community who pushed for the region lock, thus creating this awesome situation of "Urgh I can't believe there is no region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing" straight into a "Urgh I can't believe there is a region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing".
Your yearly reminder that the problem is not that koreans are excluded from WCS. The problems is that foreigner are allowed to train and play in korea/GSL/WCS. Which is the exact reason why koreans were banned in the first place. Especially "now" that koreans train the same way everyone else does: In their bedroom
On April 24 2018 03:01 pvsnp wrote: Imagine, if you will, two weightlifters. One of them grew up in luxury, with a state-sponsored training regimen, the finest coaches, and cutting-edge equipment. The other grew up in poverty, and struggled to make ends meet between workouts.
After they are both adults, they compete. Obviously, the former is far superior. Therefore, the tournament organizers decide, in order to "even the odds" as it were, to give the latter steroids. Because this is an imaginary world, we can imagine these steroids are perfectly safe, healthy, and legal, with no side effects whatsoever.
Can I blame the second weightlifter for taking the steroids? After their deprived upbringing? Of course not.
Can I respect the second weightlifter's victory? After consuming performance-enhancing drugs? Of course not.
NB: Yes, I am fully aware that this analogy is not perfectly representative of all the subtleties and nuances of region-lock. That's why it's an analogy, and not the original thing itself. It gets the idea of the two different "unfair advantages" across.
That's not really an apt comparison because it assumes that the steroids equalize the the second weightlifters to that of the first weightlifters, when in reality, it does not.
To be an apt comparison, you should also add that the first weightlifter has his or her own state-sponsored wrestling competition, whereas the second weightlifter does not have his or her own state-sponsored wrestling competition.
However, in this example, the wrestling board has created all these other tournaments that anyone can enter in regardless of skill. Because the first wrestler had all the advantages, of course they dominate.
So in response, the wrestling body creates an amateur league where only the second wrestler and those of his or her skill can compete. Someone who is perfectly qualified can compete in the amateur league, but only if he or she relinquishes his or her spot in the first league. Because that person naturally competed in the first league, he or she cannot leverage those advantages both ways in that he/she is capable of competing in the first league and dominating in the amateur league.
However, because the second wrestler is at a lower skill level, he is able to compete in the higher league to get experience. There's no expectation that the second wrestler will do well because of the difference in skill, but they are able to get experience.
This is a more apt comparison, and where the analogy breaks down is that the amateur league has increased while the primary league has decreased to the point where although the first league is still generally stronger, the amateurs are able to more competitively compete in the first league. However, the amateurs are still largely inferior to those from the first league.
So it sounds like we need a mid-tier league where the best of the amateur league and the worst of the primary league can compete.
If you replace "wrestling" with "SC2" this just gets us back to reality, which kinda defeats the whole point of using an analogy.
That being said, I do agree with your conclusion of a mid-tier league where players of all nationalities can compete with others according to skill level.
But contextualizing in within the example of wrestling takes it out of the Starcraft 2 context. And when I'm looking at it from a wrestling context, the system doesn't seem unfair.
Because the difference is that TRUE is better than most foreigners, and he has the privilege of being raised in that Korean culture and teamhouse, which means that when he is competing in WCS, he is bring all of those advantages to bear, whereas when foreigners are competing in the GSL, they are bringing none of those advantages. The only advantage they are using is the ability to compete (and lose) in more tournaments.
It'd be different if they competed and won, but that's not what happened. Whereas TRUE did come and win, and he's consistently been top 4 or top 8 in WCS.
However, with regards to the league.
So we have an amatuer/challenger/GSL league. The amateur league and the challenger league are both region unlocked, and so it gives points to both WCS Korea/WCS global. The amateur league and the challenger league are based on points, so if you reached a certain level of points, you have to compete in the challenger league. However, anyone from the lower league can compete in the upper league, but if you reach a certain threshold of points, then you are restricted from competing in a certain level of competition.
The amateur league also gives out less points, so if someone wins in the amateur league, that person won't automatically be booted into the challenger league. The challenger league has a maximum WCS Korea point threshold, so that if you reached a certain threshold in WCS Korea, then you cannot compete in the challenger league. But it does not have a maximum WCS Global point threshold because some foreigners will stay exclusively in WCS Global.
The point threshold would be based off of a year rotation, so that if you did well last year, you can't just drop out of the GSL to compete this year.
For foreigners and Koreans, though, it would have to be different to start and then come to be the same. Scarlett performed well in last year's GSL but hasn't done well in WCS events or in this season's GSL, so next year, Scarlett's WCS Korea points threshold would be higher than someone who mainly competed in the GSL. However, the year following, everyone would start at the same level.
Not sure how this would affect the Global finals.....but if Blizzard still wanted foreigners to compete, then you could use the separation of WCS Global/WCS Korea points
On April 24 2018 06:17 Nebuchad wrote: Your yearly reminder that it was the community who pushed for the region lock, thus creating this awesome situation of "Urgh I can't believe there is no region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing" straight into a "Urgh I can't believe there is a region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing".
Your yearly reminder that the problem is not that koreans are excluded from WCS. The problems is that foreigner are allowed to train and play in korea/GSL/WCS. Which is the exact reason why koreans were banned in the first place. Especially "now" that koreans train the same way everyone else does: In their bedroom
You can't do a yearly reminder on something controversial, that's not how reminders work. To me and to a lot of people on this forum the problem is very much that Koreans aren't allowed in WCS.
Yeah I can't wait for Maru to twirl a cane through that joke of a group F while every other group seems pretty balanced with up to date semi/top tier players what a joke.
On April 24 2018 06:17 Nebuchad wrote: Your yearly reminder that it was the community who pushed for the region lock, thus creating this awesome situation of "Urgh I can't believe there is no region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing" straight into a "Urgh I can't believe there is a region lock, wtf is Blizzard doing".
Your yearly reminder that the problem is not that koreans are excluded from WCS. The problems is that foreigner are allowed to train and play in korea/GSL/WCS. Which is the exact reason why koreans were banned in the first place. Especially "now" that koreans train the same way everyone else does: In their bedroom
You can't do a yearly reminder on something controversial, that's not how reminders work. To me and to a lot of people on this forum the problem is very much that Koreans aren't allowed in WCS.
It wouldnt be a problem if WCS Foreigner wouldnt be allowed to play in Korea. Also the that foreigner play in korea have an advantage towards those who dont
What's there to discuss? Koreans don't have the background of the teams anymore, their only advantage is the fact GSL is fully in Korea and not online. The fact we have so many foreigners in RO32 signals something(and how many new Koreans)
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2018/GSL_Code_S_Banner_v2.jpg)
GuMiho comfortably advanced in first place without a single loss. GuMiho showed the range of his TvZ arsenal in his series against Losira and Scarlett, going for hellbat timings, mech play, and some old-fashioned infantry + tanks. 
