EPTIt Would be more thinking/strategy, than only making games and use muscle memory.
WCS Leipzig Map Pool Controversy - Page 3
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
It Would be more thinking/strategy, than only making games and use muscle memory. | ||
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Weavel
Finland9224 Posts
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Kaewins
Bulgaria138 Posts
On January 18 2018 22:32 tAlionsc2 wrote: why are sc2 players are always so whiny ... its equal oppurtunity for everybody It's not. This move is way more favorable for cheesy players, than refined macro players. In the end, the quality of games will suffer, as we will be watching what will amount to players trying to figure out those maps on the fly. I predict very short games due to this. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On January 18 2018 22:51 Kaewins wrote: It's not. This move is way more favorable for cheesy players, than refined macro players. In the end, the quality of games will suffer, as we will be watching what will amount to players trying to figure out those maps on the fly. I predict very short games due to this. On the fly means ... 8 days. By your logic using old maps is more favorable for the "refined macro players" then. Why are the "refined macro players" more important than the "cheesy players" ? I agree that not being able to copy the best builds from the koreans is frustrating... Now they will have to figure some builds out on their own. God forbid. I on the other hand am happy, because I will probably not watch the same builds every single game. | ||
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JWD[9]
364 Posts
I absolutely understand that this is a dick move from Blizz towards the players. As a viewer I prefer the fresh maps, and if Optimus wants to be a professional he should understand that entertainment value is important in making this profession viable. | ||
Poopi
France13023 Posts
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JokerAi
Germany142 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33713 Posts
On January 18 2018 23:01 JWD[9] wrote: Hm. I play this game myself, so i am not only a spectator for spectator reasons. I am kinda intrigued to see ProPlayers approaches to a new map pool. The old maps feel...old at this point. I absolutely understand that this is a dick move from Blizz towards the players. As a viewer I prefer the fresh maps, and if Optimus wants to be a professional he should understand that entertainment value is important in making this profession viable. yeah, but is this map decision really a reasonable compromise point between proplayer comfort and fan entertainment? | ||
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Lightrush
Bulgaria164 Posts
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Lillekanin
Denmark192 Posts
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JWD[9]
364 Posts
On January 18 2018 23:39 Waxangel wrote: yeah, but is this map decision really a reasonable compromise point between proplayer comfort and fan entertainment? Absolutely not. Fans get the better end of the deal. Just wanted to point out that Optimus's argument cuts both ways, which makes it very weak for both standpoints. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On January 18 2018 23:47 Lightrush wrote: Is anybody getting to play on these new maps before anyone else can ? If not then I fail to see the problem. Depending on if you see adapting to new maps quickly a skill that's part of competition. In an extreme example, what if blizzard make everyone run 5 miles before the match? Technically it is fair as everyone has to do it, but it is testing a skill that has nothing to do with the match. | ||
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yocheco619
United States28 Posts
Blizz has gotten much better at making maps without severe imbalances. The argument of "there's not enough time to practice" is bs: Two players could have a month, one practices 60% of the time the other 40% because he has other commitments, ok you made your choice. | ||
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Poopi
France13023 Posts
On January 18 2018 23:47 Lightrush wrote: Is anybody getting to play on these new maps before anyone else can ? If not then I fail to see the problem. Pros wasted A LOT of practice time on maps that won't be used. That diminishes the seriousness of the competition. | ||
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i'm interested in seeing what they do and seeing styles shine through. kind of boring to see someone collect paychecks off superior macro play sometimes. Yeah it's shitty, yeah it's something that should be barred off in the future, yeah it's something that shouldn't have happened in the first place, but we can still make the most out of a bad situation. | ||
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Deleted User 26513
2376 Posts
On January 19 2018 00:08 ragz_gt wrote: Depending on if you see adapting to new maps quickly a skill that's part of competition. In an extreme example, what if blizzard make everyone run 5 miles before the match? Technically it is fair as everyone has to do it, but it is testing a skill that has nothing to do with the match. Because forging strategies has nothing to do with real time strategy game... | ||
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yocheco619
United States28 Posts
On January 19 2018 00:08 ragz_gt wrote: Depending on if you see adapting to new maps quickly a skill that's part of competition. In an extreme example, what if blizzard make everyone run 5 miles before the match? Technically it is fair as everyone has to do it, but it is testing a skill that has nothing to do with the match. mmm That logic isn't good. What's the definition of quickly? You have a year to quickly learn the map. You have a month to quickly learn the map. Learning the map in a certain amount of time is part of the competition. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23580 Posts
The biggest problem as always is communication. Blizzard and DH didn't tell any of the pros which maps would be used until they randomly got asked on Twitter. It might have been possible that the pros showed up at the event and practiced the wrong maps for nothing. | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
I have a feeling that int this WCS we'll see way more cheese then in a regular WCS event. There is nothing wrong with cheese, as long as in the right proportion (one time in a series, say). | ||
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ROOTCatZ
Peru1238 Posts
The intend / point of my post was simply to provide perspective and highlight some pros and cons of the situation, rather than working under the assumption that there is no positive side to this and jumping on the hate train. I think it's rather ignorant to brand this situation as strictly bad. Evidence of that is this thread in-itself, many people myself included are excited to watch players perform under these circumstances. I saw some interesting points made here too, on how this rewards adaptability or how it may bring about a wider variety of strategies. I think that it'll even be fun to listen to the more analytical casters think and talk about potential on these maps based on their features. At the very least this is without a doubt generating discussion and anticipation around the tournament. On January 18 2018 21:35 Deleuze wrote: I agree with CatZ on this one, but have one reservation: without testing and play 'in the wild' there is a risk that one or more maps might be very broken and exploitable for one particular match-up. All it takes is for one player to find that flaw and we end of with stale exploitative games and potentially a skew in the play. This is different to race-favour in maps, which is fine and I'm happy to see discovered during tourneys. I'm talking about totally broken. Still agree with CatZ but would want assurances that this isn't a risk. That 'risk' always exists though, how often do maps get changed? While it's not unprecedented, IF maps ever get "fixed" it is usually after tournaments on them have occurred on them anyway. The bottom line is that players should recognize what features make a map good or bad for certain styles / matchups / situations / units. For example if there is a spot for a tank to siege some mineral line from outside, it should be apparent. If there is too much airspace where liberators an be troublesome, it should / will be apparent. Lets say 1 of the maps ends up having 20% winrate in TvP for whatever reason / exploits, lets say you are the Terran player, and fail to identify the map is ridiculously protoss favored - that DOES NOT mean that every other terran player at the tournament will make the same mistake or will be equally blind to the situation. If all it takes is for one player to "find a flaw" how come no one else can also identify it and avoid / abuse that same flaw? Why shouldn't the player who thought about something the most or realized something before everyone else not be rewarded? The rules of the game, the ranges of units, etc don't change with the new map pool. Outside of a straight up BUG, there isn't something that should be only available for only 1 person to "discover". But for the sake of this exercise, what is your worst case scenario? getting your mind blown by someone doing or abusing something no one else thought of? Sign me up. Plus there's vetoes anyway, so lets say X player "abuses" a map in group stages, his next opponent may / should have an idea of what he did and either avoid it via veto or challenge it if he thinks he can beat it by letting the map go through, even more fun. | ||
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