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RoflStomped
Iceland21 Posts
On January 13 2018 05:57 Musicus wrote: Kinda sad to see the repair drone go, but those are nice changes all around. Good riddance if you ask me. Loving these changes. Hope to see them all go through to test and tweak them some more later if needed and any problems arise. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:16 Nerchio wrote: unwinnable zvp incoming ;d lurker all-in or lurker all-in ? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I prefer ling drops | ||
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:16 Nerchio wrote: unwinnable zvp incoming ;d Foreign protosses are almost worse than foreign terrans right now, so you have to cut them some slack. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:29 curufinwe_wins wrote: Recall change is stupid and unneeded. It's literally one second and you are the only one who seems to care. Somehow, I don't think it will break the game. | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Foreign protosses are almost worse than foreign terrans right now, so you have to cut them some slack. Neeb in NA qualifier (ok it's NA but) : 10-1 vs Scarlett, Masa, Noregret, JohnSnow. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:38 Tyrhanius wrote: Neeb in NA qualifier (ok it's NA but) : 10-1 vs Scarlett, Masa, Noregret, JohnSnow. Neeb's the reason there is an 'almost' in that sentence. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Neeb's the reason there is an 'almost' in that sentence. Neeb is the reason WCS events aren't ZvZ finals almost every time | ||
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scoo2r
Canada90 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:50 Fango wrote: Neeb is the reason WCS events aren't ZvZ finals almost every time WCS austin : could be Major vs Nerchio finals, but Neeb eliminated Major WCS Jönköping : Neeb eliminated kelhazur It's more, Neeb is the reason why T foreigners doesn't reach finals of WCS | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
After we told them reverting the change was bad they listened. I guess they don't care now and just want to revert it. It's not like winrates or bio was that unbalanced, easily in the accepted balance. I furiously hate the comment "Stalkers overlapping more with Adepts for the early game anti-light unit role", like come on don't tell me how to use my unit. You realize we build stalkers because it's the only early game protoss unit that can deal with terran bs well? (mines, medivacs, liberators, cyclones, all things that adepts are bad vs.) Adepts aren't even that great early game without rushing their upgrade. I'll be doing that adept allins now a lot of my PvTs. The team should focus on PvZ instead, the hydra change is nice but not what expected. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
Battlecruisers Widow Mines Banshees (really what is the point of this unit aside from TvT early game, which you can forget about making since every Terran will go to Raven for the autoturret safety net and harrass opportunity). Cyclone anti-air (complete joke) If anything, because autoturrets were strong, I will most certainly mass my ravens in late game as I did before. I dont need seeker missile when I can spam 20 turrets in 2 seconds for insane dps. The repair drone at least gave mech the chance to move around the map a lot better. This change promotes full turtling to 20 ravens for mass autoturret spam. It's just so cost efficient. And because of the big energy drain guess what? The Terran will turtle the whole game as he did before and wait for the ravens to charge up their energy! And it's shit to play like this and shit to play against it! | ||
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On January 13 2018 07:59 Psychobabas wrote: For Terran things that need change: Battlecruisers Widow Mines Banshees (really what is the point of this unit aside from TvT early game, which you can forget about making since every Terran will go to Raven for the autoturret safety net and harrass opportunity). Cyclone anti-air (complete joke) If anything, because autoturrets were strong, I will most certainly mass my ravens in late game as I did before. I dont need seeker missile when I can spam 20 turrets in 2 seconds for insane dps. Banshees are used a lot on TvZ. Cyclon DPS anti-air is the same than queen (with 15 range), buff queen DPS vs air so ? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On January 13 2018 08:03 Tyrhanius wrote: Banshees are used a lot on TvZ. Cyclon DPS anti-air is the same than queen (with 15 range), buff queen DPS vs air so ? Let me know once cyclones cost 0 gas, can heal other units/buildiungs, spread vision, and boost macro. Horrendous analogy. Banshees are used in TvZ, though, you are right about that. | ||
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Ranari
19 Posts
Although I do feel that the old Raven had more use than the new Raven, I'm not so sure bringing back the Auto-Turret is the way to balance the unit. The issue I see is that none of the abilities that the Raven has really impacts a battle in a meaningful way. When you think about it, any Abducted unit is going to be a dead unit. It's especially useful for ripping Lurkers out of the ground and wearing away the expensive units of an enemy army. And, when the Viper is out of energy, it just goes back and gets more. High Templar are a bit different, but Psionic Storm is horrendously unforgiving against a player that isn't microing well. That, and it just does a lot of damage when used properly. And when the High Templar are out of energy, they can become Archons. Ghosts can keep fighting as a decent anti-light unit. Infestors are probably similar to Ravens, and that's why I haven't seen them used as much lately. But when Ravens (and Infestors) run out of energy, they just have to sit there. I'm purposefully leaving out Oracles because it's more of a harass unit, and I don't think anyone here is questioning their usefulness.  The other issue is that when you think about it, Raven abilities overlap Ghost abilities. Interference Matrix is really meant to disable mechanical or psionic units, but there's a purpose overlap there with EMP. I can either disable a Viper for 10 seconds, or I can wipe its energy clean with EMPs. Both effectively do the same thing. Repair Drones are cool, but they need to travel. I think we would find a lot more use out of them if they were tethered to the Raven, and if the Raven dies, they stay in that spot. Or, they attach themselves to the nearest Raven. Anti-Armor Missile - Easily the most interesting ability the Raven has, but right now it does nothing significant in a battle. I guess I just don't get the "Activation Time" on it. The Seeker Missile made sense since its damage stacked and it would annihilate armies, but the Anti-Armor Missile doesn't do enough damage to really see that happen. Abduct is instant, Blinding Cloud is instant, Psionic Storm is instant, EMP, Parasitic Bomb, and Fungal Growth are fast, but Anti-Armor Missiles are slow. There is lots to play around with here, but I'd like to see the ability made to be a little faster and more instant. And no, not calling for any nerfs whatsoever to the other caster units. I just want to make sure they're useful enough to get used. | ||
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Psychobabas
2531 Posts
On January 13 2018 08:06 pvsnp wrote: Let me know once cyclones cost 0 gas, can heal other units/buildiungs, spread vision, and boost macro. Horrendous analogy. ouch! | ||
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bulya
Israel386 Posts
We end up with many changes to ZvT, I think it will bring bio back, as well as muta ling bane. Which is good to have more variety in the match-up. But apart for the stalker nerf and the ghost change how will TvP be affected? Protoss players will still have huge advantage in upgrades in the match-up, the compensation tool for the MSC are good in PvT, so even if the stalker won't be that good vs bio protoss players will still be able to go for collosus stalker storm, as well as chargelot immortal archon storm, and other ways of playing. And they will still benefit from the upgrade advantage in the mid game (and I'm talking about till 15 min. into the game). May be heavy gateway compositions are hurt a bit, but stalkers with +3 will have mor DPS vs armored stuff then the current stalkers, so stalkers in the late game won't be that bad. I think its not enough for PvT. In PvZ it seems like protoss players will have an easier time getting to their comfort zone. As no need to scout early hydra timings or worry about that will make protoss players skip more corners to get to their mid game and late game armies. The raven will make its way back to TvT, may be that is good, and mutas will have more room in ZvZ, I don't know how good is that. But even though many changes make sense here, most of them don't address enough the real issue which is TvP, and makes ZvP a harder match-up to play in the mid game (by the time hydras get both upgrades the protoss will have storm, which makes hydras not that good, lurkers will be the way to go, but if so massing immortals is all a protoos need, it also makes SG openers even more viable in PvZ, so there won't be that much variety in the early game). The real issue for PvZ is the early elevators, not the hydras, and with the changes ling drops will be even more important for the zerg to make sure the protoss doesn't rush its tech. It can make the match-up even more coin-flippy then it is now. | ||
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