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Austria24417 Posts
Put the poll from earlier in the thread into the OP. Let's see what everyone thinks!
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On December 08 2017 18:04 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 17:40 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 16:57 -Kyo- wrote:On December 08 2017 16:51 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:35 -Kyo- wrote:ROFL, these protoss changes are absolutely hilarious On December 08 2017 16:15 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 15:53 iMrising wrote:
1. Doing them all at once is too fast. It feels like blizzard is too trigger happy
2. I really don't understand the disruptor changes and I encourage anyone who disagrees with me to talk with me, but it definitely feels nerfed beyond oblivion. because this is awful gameplay u should know how much of an investment that is... -_- he thought he could defend without pulling workers, he didnt -_- sure it's awful gameplay, but to basically nerf everything that was even patched to toss in the first place is like almost nonsensical Actually, I think with the new disrupter, building a single turret in the mineral line is even better than before because it means toss has to drop outside of the mineral line, meaning you can just move one scv in front of the shot. However I haven't played it yet because disrupter drop builds are already a large investment and are a rare build. I also don't see how it is any different from say a widowmine drop except being a larger investment lol. That isn't even the main strategical counterpoint. The biggest factor, which you can clearly see in the game clip she linked is that the army value of the protoss is shit during that startup phase. So, they have to be microing well; and moreover, if you look at what he is building, he literally starts a colo, and like 1 sentry during that whole 30 seconds. These sorts of builds have their ups and downs, and to just say that because he got 5 scv kills and killed a building turret is the pinnacle of shit gameplay, idk. Personally, I don't like the new disruptor myself, but at least lets try this stuff for more than like 30 days of 'off season' gameplay. shit gameplay is being able to do consistent damage with 0 risk, yes; it feels miserable playing against it (whether or not it is in fact balanced) i literally told you the risk of playing this style in my post. i mean lets be honest here, do you think people enjoy playing the styles of protoss we had to play in the past just to be competitive? and lets not be hyperbolic, as you clearly see in the game vikings easily chase away the WP. now, when is building them or if they are the right response? idk? im not a top 16 gm KR terran player and im not gonna sit here and pretend to be one. but to throw your hands up in the air and just say "well, that fucking warp prism pick up range with a disruptor is dumb" when he literally flies the thing into the guys main mineral line, the dude doesnt move anything, and then literally just proceeds to fly out seems to scream more about being out of position and unprepared than anything else. what you're talking about is more the fundamental ideology of how you 'think' a race is supposed to be played, or how you are 'supposed' to play against it. if you are unhappy with that, that is your own problem and not one with the game itself. i will grant you that there is, of course, clear examples where this is shit for the game all around like BL infestor in WoL. it is something that was abysmal to play and to view. and there are more like that. but there is nothing inherently "shit" about a WP with an early disruptor other than the fact that you apparently dont like finding new ways to fight against it because it is different than before, at least, as it stands NOW. look, as i mentioned, i am not really happy with the disruptor myself, but that doesnt change the fact that people are reeling over changes that have been around for ~month and not even been tested against counter builds that are being played in WCS level tournaments. i mean you should know, you're a high level zerg, there is an always evolving meta on the KR server. if people basically opened 100% of their games with WP disruptor and proceeded to win something like ~65%+ of them while the other person was completely failing to defend that initial pressure after X amount of time in tournaments then i'd totally be behind you; that just isnt the case.
Sure buddy, it's not like Disruptor drop have been around since the start of LotV and it has been buffed now right? Also it's clear that when someone thinks it's shit play, it's their problem, but if you think it isn't, you're absutely right and Blizzard should listen to you.
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I like most of these toss changes individually, but all at the same time.....
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On December 08 2017 20:31 xTJx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 17:56 egrimm wrote:On December 08 2017 17:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2017 17:09 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 17:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2017 16:51 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:35 -Kyo- wrote:ROFL, these protoss changes are absolutely hilarious On December 08 2017 16:15 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 15:53 iMrising wrote:
1. Doing them all at once is too fast. It feels like blizzard is too trigger happy
2. I really don't understand the disruptor changes and I encourage anyone who disagrees with me to talk with me, but it definitely feels nerfed beyond oblivion. because this is awful gameplay https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeTolerantOryxSquadGoals u should know how much of an investment that is... -_- he thought he could defend without pulling workers, he didnt -_- sure it's awful gameplay, but to basically nerf everything that was even patched to toss in the first place is like almost nonsensical Actually, I think with the new disrupter, building a single turret in the mineral line is even better than before because it means toss has to drop outside of the mineral line, meaning you can just move one scv in front of the shot. However I haven't played it yet because disrupter drop builds are already a large investment and are a rare build. I also don't see how it is any different from say a widowmine drop except being a larger investment lol. Think of an expensive widow mine that fires instantly deals 145 damage and can get picked up from six range. You avoided my question. I'm going to sleepers now. I assumed you were being intentionally obtuse and thus it wasn't worth answering. But if you were being serious... On December 08 2017 16:31 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2017 16:21 youngjiddle wrote:
Toss does something awesome
Awful gameplay xD xD xD The way the opponent has absolutely no chance whatsoever to react is definitely awesome too I take it. Are you implying that the warp prism that barely slipped past the marines could not have been stopped in anyway? The problem is obviously that you can't react to the shot once the disruptor has landed. For basically any other form of harassment there's at least some leisure to react if you failed to prevent the drop from happening. Not so for the disruptor which can just drop on top of the units instagib them and leave immediately. The widow mine has an attack delay precisely for that reason. Baneling drops are the most similar thing to it I guess, but there's a huge rift in the mobility and versatility of disruptor drops (before this change) and bane drops. However the bane drops are capable of erasing whole mineral line wheras disruptor drop will kill 3-6 workers not more. I agree that there is little to do for defenders once the disruptor lands in the mineral line - however it is hardly inbalanced imho. The investment costs + actual dmg you can do with it - is fine. Except that warp prisms are twice as fast as droper lords and banelings die when they attack, while with disruptors drop you kill workers for free and leave unharmed.
Yeah sure that's why it is not so easy to compare them.
Also we should take into consideration the cost, shall we?
Warp Prism + Speed + 1 disruptor cost:
200 + 100/100 + 150/150 = 450/250
1 dropolord + 4 banes cost:
100 + 25/25 + 200/100 (4x 50/25) = 325/125 <- where usually you must have overlord anyway as a "supply depot"
and if we assume that 1 dropped disruptor shot kills 5 workers then we need like 3-4 shots to kill similar worker count as with successful bane drop which surely can kill whole mineral line.
So I am not saying that bane drops are imba just saying that disruptor drops doesn't feel imba either in comparison.
Maybe it is bad design because it is hard to prevent the drop ? idk to little data to say so as the patch is life several weeks only and almost nobody plays that opener.
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I am happy they realize the mistakes they made.
That is almost exactly what I thought.
And happy that doesn't take too much time before changing the balance.
In 3 weeks from now there are the GSL qualifiers and I would like to see some Terrans next year.
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On December 08 2017 07:58 Olli wrote:
Classic, triple nerf Protoss after less than one month of play, and simultaneously double buff Terran. That's not to say I dislike the individual changes, most of them are good. Just, as usual, complete overkill the second Protoss appears to be strong.
Chronoboost change I like a lot, reverting the oracle is smart as well to line up with it.
Interference matrix is cool, I guess? Ravens just aren't useful aside from TvT, and as long as they require a tech lab or become absurdly strong that'll continue to be the case. Aside from specific openings, you'd never invest into a starport and tech lab for ravens, unless you're meching, and even then vikings and liberators are generally more useful.
Disruptor change I'm fine with, they're stupidly good in some scenarios and completely useless in others. This introduces a bit of micro potential for both players and I like that.
The double stalker change is pretty stupid. Try one at a time. Especially because the widow mine change, as well as chronoboost, should help against the mass gateway style as well. So that's a triple patch concerning one specific playstyle that's currently really strong in PvT. It's not an uninteresting or turtley style of play either, so I'd like to avoid killing it entirely.
Templar openings were strong, too. Then Protoss was quadruple nerfed all at once, now they're gone. Please don't make the same mistakes again.
Hmm, I agree with most of your post,liking the individual chances apart from the stalker one and your opinion of the practice of overnerfing but I don't agree with this being "classically" a Protoss thing. This balance team in particular seems to like to do this in general; Member the triple infestor nerf?
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This time in the weekly balance whine thread: Protoss players teaching Scarlett who beat DRG and Keen with P about the game.
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New balance team may have better unit/game design sense than DK, but far worse in balancing the game.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
This balance designer overdoes things.
Triple infestor nerf.
Now Protoss being nerfed x3.
Terran just got ghosts buffed a while ago - now protoss is getting their strenght tuned down and still widow mines are changed as well?
Constantly things are going too far in one direction.
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I think this is the first poll where the majority for every change is positive or neutral. And only one is neutral. That's pretty cool.
I, for one, freak the heck out whenever a disruptor drop comes around, so I'm happy to have some extra time to pre split.
Edit: Nevermind, stalker change is disagreed with. 
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This is just sad.
Honestly I think terran whining and toxic behaviour is the worst in this game.
Sad if blizzar actually listens.
The stalker and shield batteries did a lot make protoss feel less impotent and flexible together with chrono.
I can understand the chrono change, but the stalker has to remain. This is a huge nerf, especially the late game missing +2 and the missing burst damage for micro potential.
I don't know what they are thinking? This is really idiotic.
Plus of course an incredible row of terran buffs which terrans ignore now but will come back later to bite everybody in the ass.
So disappointing again. Maybe it's time to let SC2 die finally after years of terran favouritism and now that shitty warbox behaviour..
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On December 08 2017 22:04 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Constantly things are going too far in one direction.
It has got to be quite annoying for pros, but its even annoying for causals. I just want to play Protoss without needing to re-learn builds or strats all the time. I'm okay with that if its because the meta is shifting naturally, but not if its because some dude at blizzard decided what I'm currently doing needs to be stopped.
I didn't even bother learning any builds for the new disruptor because I suspected it would be nerfed into the ground within a week or so, but these changes are so drastic they'll effect everything.
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On December 08 2017 22:25 Neverendar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 22:04 Liquid`Ret wrote:
Constantly things are going too far in one direction. It has got to be quite annoying for pros, but its even annoying for causals. I just want to play Protoss without needing to re-learn builds or strats all the time. I'm okay with that if its because the meta is shifting naturally, but not if its because some dude at blizzard decided what I'm currently doing needs to be stopped. I didn't even bother learning any builds for the new disruptor because I suspected it would be nerfed into the ground within a week or so, but these changes are so drastic they'll effect everything.
I agree, it took long enough to get used to the new stalker speed when kiting, now you have to relearn it again, I'm all for changes but fucking with units speed is so annoying.
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On December 08 2017 20:20 xTJx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 15:11 SHODAN wrote:
terran player perspective:
unimaginative changes which don't address the core design issues.
agree with the disruptor nerf
agree with the oracle nerf
strongly disagree with the chrono and stalker nerfs. it's the wrong approach. it messes with ZvP.
the most pressing issues for terran were not addressed:
1) strength of bio
2) micro potential of mech
3) terran anti-air and overlapping roles
universal consensus in the sc2 community that the marauder's single-shot attack should be reinstated.
widespread dissatisfaction with the micro potential of mech. in particular, tornado blaster cyclones.
there is ZERO skill difference between Innovation killing a zealot with a tornado blaster cyclone vs. a platinum league player killing a zealot with a cyclone. no kiting, no scoot and shoot, no nothing. probably the worst unit design in the game...
ground-to-ground lock-on should be reinstated. kiting is fun, a-move is not.
cyclone anti-air damage needs some major buffs. none of this "first 4 shots fire faster" bullshit. make it strong like the early days of LotV. if it's too strong in the early-game, add charon booster AA range upgrade and mag-field accelerator to the techlab.
widespread dissatisfaction with the state of terran anti-air. too much overlap. all of terran's mech AA is clumsy, slow, unmicroable, or hard-countered by one or more Z/P units. Well, that's what mech is, a bunch of slow high damage units. The whole game in a mech vs Zerg is about Terran trying to get helions to mineral lines and it all ends with 1 big battle. On top of that mechers ask for the removal of swarm hosts and you're asking for even more antiair, as if 1 thor shutting down any mutalisk play wasn't enough. Asking for more microable units when you basicaly force zergs into a no micro gameplay is ironic at least.
mate, I've seen things you wouldn't believe. roach/hydra/viper armies torn apart by multi-pronged hellion/cyclone/mine harass. I watched a maxed ultra army get kited all the way across Dusk Towers. all those moments will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
yes, sadly that's what mech is. but it's not what mech should be. mech is an idea, a way of life. every terran player with half a brain wants thors removed from the game and replaced with a high skill AA unit. the only reason why thors are fun to use is because of the medivac. likewise, the only micro you can do with the current cyclones is afforded by medivacs. hellbats... same story. maybe you weren't as clued into the 2016 meta, but speedy mech was developing into something great thanks to lock-on cyclones.
for the record, I don't want swarm-hosts removed from the game. free units is a perfectly fine design concept. I just want a different answer to them.
on the 2016 patch, if Z went swarm hosts, you could move out with lock-on cyclone/hellion/mine and force him to defend. now Z knows exactly where the terran army is at all times. that's why playing vs swarm hosts is obnoxious... because mech is poorly designed, not because swarm hosts are poorly designed.
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On December 08 2017 20:41 xTJx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 18:04 -Kyo- wrote:On December 08 2017 17:40 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 16:57 -Kyo- wrote:On December 08 2017 16:51 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:35 -Kyo- wrote:ROFL, these protoss changes are absolutely hilarious On December 08 2017 16:15 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 15:53 iMrising wrote:
1. Doing them all at once is too fast. It feels like blizzard is too trigger happy
2. I really don't understand the disruptor changes and I encourage anyone who disagrees with me to talk with me, but it definitely feels nerfed beyond oblivion. because this is awful gameplay https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeTolerantOryxSquadGoals u should know how much of an investment that is... -_- he thought he could defend without pulling workers, he didnt -_- sure it's awful gameplay, but to basically nerf everything that was even patched to toss in the first place is like almost nonsensical Actually, I think with the new disrupter, building a single turret in the mineral line is even better than before because it means toss has to drop outside of the mineral line, meaning you can just move one scv in front of the shot. However I haven't played it yet because disrupter drop builds are already a large investment and are a rare build. I also don't see how it is any different from say a widowmine drop except being a larger investment lol. That isn't even the main strategical counterpoint. The biggest factor, which you can clearly see in the game clip she linked is that the army value of the protoss is shit during that startup phase. So, they have to be microing well; and moreover, if you look at what he is building, he literally starts a colo, and like 1 sentry during that whole 30 seconds. These sorts of builds have their ups and downs, and to just say that because he got 5 scv kills and killed a building turret is the pinnacle of shit gameplay, idk. Personally, I don't like the new disruptor myself, but at least lets try this stuff for more than like 30 days of 'off season' gameplay. shit gameplay is being able to do consistent damage with 0 risk, yes; it feels miserable playing against it (whether or not it is in fact balanced) i literally told you the risk of playing this style in my post. i mean lets be honest here, do you think people enjoy playing the styles of protoss we had to play in the past just to be competitive? and lets not be hyperbolic, as you clearly see in the game vikings easily chase away the WP. now, when is building them or if they are the right response? idk? im not a top 16 gm KR terran player and im not gonna sit here and pretend to be one. but to throw your hands up in the air and just say "well, that fucking warp prism pick up range with a disruptor is dumb" when he literally flies the thing into the guys main mineral line, the dude doesnt move anything, and then literally just proceeds to fly out seems to scream more about being out of position and unprepared than anything else. what you're talking about is more the fundamental ideology of how you 'think' a race is supposed to be played, or how you are 'supposed' to play against it. if you are unhappy with that, that is your own problem and not one with the game itself. i will grant you that there is, of course, clear examples where this is shit for the game all around like BL infestor in WoL. it is something that was abysmal to play and to view. and there are more like that. but there is nothing inherently "shit" about a WP with an early disruptor other than the fact that you apparently dont like finding new ways to fight against it because it is different than before, at least, as it stands NOW. look, as i mentioned, i am not really happy with the disruptor myself, but that doesnt change the fact that people are reeling over changes that have been around for ~month and not even been tested against counter builds that are being played in WCS level tournaments. i mean you should know, you're a high level zerg, there is an always evolving meta on the KR server. if people basically opened 100% of their games with WP disruptor and proceeded to win something like ~65%+ of them while the other person was completely failing to defend that initial pressure after X amount of time in tournaments then i'd totally be behind you; that just isnt the case. Sure buddy, it's not like Disruptor drop have been around since the start of LotV and it has been buffed now right? Also it's clear that when someone thinks it's shit play, it's their problem, but if you think it isn't, you're absutely right and Blizzard should listen to you.
sure 'buddy', whoever you are, but how about you try reading my post?
Nowhere did I say this is how the disruptor SHOULD be. I said give it time to see if it is something the meta can form around, or if it truly is something that is stupid. The examples that have been given are literally horrendous. it's not like there is 0 terran players doing well on either server. In fact, as shown by players on both EU and KR, Terrans are indeed able to get good winrates even among the insane meta of PvT atm.
So, instead of playing it out, we're just throwing the meta around again. That doesn't really accomplish much and if anything, THAT makes the game much more volatile.
edit: as ret has just stated himself as well.
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GG Protoss was nice being able to win something for a month.
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proxy 3 raxx marine/bunker vP is going to be unstoppable after the stalker/chrono nerf
Mvp will be watching GSL with a smile
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Hilarious to see Protoss tears. My favorite justification for whine is when they site "during x time we had a less than 50% winrate! So based on that being imba should be allowed!" Thats really sound logic...game use to be fucked up and so now we should leave it fucked up! LOL. Patches should happen fast when there are obvious problems. When those problems are making ur mmr artificially high the answer is always "please! Please blizz give it time! Meta will evolve!! And i might hit gm before u do!" Watch a vod of any top kr terran players stream since the first patch and the tvp matchups. These dudes are trying to go mech they are so desperate. And headsup to zerg get ready to bitch and moan yourselves cause as top eu zergs pointed out before any patch mech isnt going to be viable as a long term strategy in tvz. Thank god boring as f to play and watch. Kr zergs have caught up with the meta..its dead and bio will be getting buffed for sure.
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On December 08 2017 20:54 egrimm wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 20:31 xTJx wrote:On December 08 2017 17:56 egrimm wrote:On December 08 2017 17:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2017 17:09 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 17:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2017 16:51 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:35 -Kyo- wrote:ROFL, these protoss changes are absolutely hilarious On December 08 2017 16:15 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 15:53 iMrising wrote:
1. Doing them all at once is too fast. It feels like blizzard is too trigger happy
2. I really don't understand the disruptor changes and I encourage anyone who disagrees with me to talk with me, but it definitely feels nerfed beyond oblivion. because this is awful gameplay https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeTolerantOryxSquadGoals u should know how much of an investment that is... -_- he thought he could defend without pulling workers, he didnt -_- sure it's awful gameplay, but to basically nerf everything that was even patched to toss in the first place is like almost nonsensical Actually, I think with the new disrupter, building a single turret in the mineral line is even better than before because it means toss has to drop outside of the mineral line, meaning you can just move one scv in front of the shot. However I haven't played it yet because disrupter drop builds are already a large investment and are a rare build. I also don't see how it is any different from say a widowmine drop except being a larger investment lol. Think of an expensive widow mine that fires instantly deals 145 damage and can get picked up from six range. You avoided my question. I'm going to sleepers now. I assumed you were being intentionally obtuse and thus it wasn't worth answering. But if you were being serious... On December 08 2017 16:31 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2017 16:21 youngjiddle wrote:
Toss does something awesome
Awful gameplay xD xD xD The way the opponent has absolutely no chance whatsoever to react is definitely awesome too I take it. Are you implying that the warp prism that barely slipped past the marines could not have been stopped in anyway? The problem is obviously that you can't react to the shot once the disruptor has landed. For basically any other form of harassment there's at least some leisure to react if you failed to prevent the drop from happening. Not so for the disruptor which can just drop on top of the units instagib them and leave immediately. The widow mine has an attack delay precisely for that reason. Baneling drops are the most similar thing to it I guess, but there's a huge rift in the mobility and versatility of disruptor drops (before this change) and bane drops. However the bane drops are capable of erasing whole mineral line wheras disruptor drop will kill 3-6 workers not more. I agree that there is little to do for defenders once the disruptor lands in the mineral line - however it is hardly inbalanced imho. The investment costs + actual dmg you can do with it - is fine. Except that warp prisms are twice as fast as droper lords and banelings die when they attack, while with disruptors drop you kill workers for free and leave unharmed. Yeah sure that's why it is not so easy to compare them. Also we should take into consideration the cost, shall we? Warp Prism + Speed + 1 disruptor cost: 200 + 100/100 + 150/150 = 450/250 1 dropolord + 4 banes cost: 100 + 25/25 + 200/100 (4x 50/25) = 325/125 <- where usually you must have overlord anyway as a "supply depot" and if we assume that 1 dropped disruptor shot kills 5 workers then we need like 3-4 shots to kill similar worker count as with successful bane drop which surely can kill whole mineral line. So I am not saying that bane drops are imba just saying that disruptor drops doesn't feel imba either in comparison. Maybe it is bad design because it is hard to prevent the drop ? idk to little data to say so as the patch is life several weeks only and almost nobody plays that opener.
Neither i am saying it's a matter of balance, but take a look at that clip. Terran has literaly 2 seconds to see the warp prism on the minimap and react, does that look like good design? Imo it doesn't, so the proposed nerf sounds good to me.
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On December 08 2017 22:57 -Kyo- wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2017 20:41 xTJx wrote:On December 08 2017 18:04 -Kyo- wrote:On December 08 2017 17:40 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 16:57 -Kyo- wrote:On December 08 2017 16:51 youngjiddle wrote:On December 08 2017 16:35 -Kyo- wrote:ROFL, these protoss changes are absolutely hilarious On December 08 2017 16:15 Scarlett` wrote:On December 08 2017 15:53 iMrising wrote:
1. Doing them all at once is too fast. It feels like blizzard is too trigger happy
2. I really don't understand the disruptor changes and I encourage anyone who disagrees with me to talk with me, but it definitely feels nerfed beyond oblivion. because this is awful gameplay https://clips.twitch.tv/GlutenFreeTolerantOryxSquadGoals u should know how much of an investment that is... -_- he thought he could defend without pulling workers, he didnt -_- sure it's awful gameplay, but to basically nerf everything that was even patched to toss in the first place is like almost nonsensical Actually, I think with the new disrupter, building a single turret in the mineral line is even better than before because it means toss has to drop outside of the mineral line, meaning you can just move one scv in front of the shot. However I haven't played it yet because disrupter drop builds are already a large investment and are a rare build. I also don't see how it is any different from say a widowmine drop except being a larger investment lol. That isn't even the main strategical counterpoint. The biggest factor, which you can clearly see in the game clip she linked is that the army value of the protoss is shit during that startup phase. So, they have to be microing well; and moreover, if you look at what he is building, he literally starts a colo, and like 1 sentry during that whole 30 seconds. These sorts of builds have their ups and downs, and to just say that because he got 5 scv kills and killed a building turret is the pinnacle of shit gameplay, idk. Personally, I don't like the new disruptor myself, but at least lets try this stuff for more than like 30 days of 'off season' gameplay. shit gameplay is being able to do consistent damage with 0 risk, yes; it feels miserable playing against it (whether or not it is in fact balanced) i literally told you the risk of playing this style in my post. i mean lets be honest here, do you think people enjoy playing the styles of protoss we had to play in the past just to be competitive? and lets not be hyperbolic, as you clearly see in the game vikings easily chase away the WP. now, when is building them or if they are the right response? idk? im not a top 16 gm KR terran player and im not gonna sit here and pretend to be one. but to throw your hands up in the air and just say "well, that fucking warp prism pick up range with a disruptor is dumb" when he literally flies the thing into the guys main mineral line, the dude doesnt move anything, and then literally just proceeds to fly out seems to scream more about being out of position and unprepared than anything else. what you're talking about is more the fundamental ideology of how you 'think' a race is supposed to be played, or how you are 'supposed' to play against it. if you are unhappy with that, that is your own problem and not one with the game itself. i will grant you that there is, of course, clear examples where this is shit for the game all around like BL infestor in WoL. it is something that was abysmal to play and to view. and there are more like that. but there is nothing inherently "shit" about a WP with an early disruptor other than the fact that you apparently dont like finding new ways to fight against it because it is different than before, at least, as it stands NOW. look, as i mentioned, i am not really happy with the disruptor myself, but that doesnt change the fact that people are reeling over changes that have been around for ~month and not even been tested against counter builds that are being played in WCS level tournaments. i mean you should know, you're a high level zerg, there is an always evolving meta on the KR server. if people basically opened 100% of their games with WP disruptor and proceeded to win something like ~65%+ of them while the other person was completely failing to defend that initial pressure after X amount of time in tournaments then i'd totally be behind you; that just isnt the case. Sure buddy, it's not like Disruptor drop have been around since the start of LotV and it has been buffed now right? Also it's clear that when someone thinks it's shit play, it's their problem, but if you think it isn't, you're absutely right and Blizzard should listen to you. sure 'buddy', whoever you are, but how about you try reading my post? Nowhere did I say this is how the disruptor SHOULD be. I said give it time to see if it is something the meta can form around, or if it truly is something that is stupid. The examples that have been given are literally horrendous. it's not like there is 0 terran players doing well on either server. In fact, as shown by players on both EU and KR, Terrans are indeed able to get good winrates even among the insane meta of PvT atm. So, instead of playing it out, we're just throwing the meta around again. That doesn't really accomplish much and if anything, THAT makes the game much more volatile. edit: as ret has just stated himself as well.
I totaly disagree. When something that is clearly bad design is found in the game it should be patched imediately. David Kim's aproach was always like yours, and what happend is that Byun won a GSL with reaper cheese.
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EPT
