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On December 08 2017 07:36 Pursuit_ wrote:
As a Terran player getting destroyed by Protoss atm, I think the stalker change is unnecessary. The real problem is chronoboost, and while this change will help vs all-ins, it wont help vs upgrades or just the flexibility of the spell, so I'm not certain it alone will be enough. I'd rather they keep the Stalker as is and nerf Chrono's actual % increase a little harder, down to ~20% (currently ~25% both pre- a.[/nd post- nerf).
Of course it helps with upgrades. Before you could half the time of the upgrades with chrono boost. Now you can only decrease the time to 3/4 of the actual time. Thats big. Agree on the stalkers.
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As a protoss player:
They should just try one of the Stalker nerfs first and see how that goes. Stalkers are good right now but I don't think they're particularly broken (I think the issues in TvP stem from a culmination of different things atm). It'd would suck to overnerf them and put them back into a spot where they have marginal use in most matchups.
Chronoboost change is nice but I really think people overestimate this change.
Disruptor change is ok i guess but really...just bring back the old disruptor. Barely anyone seems to actually like this new version. It's stronger but not as fun to use or play against.
They should really give the Raven back its auto-turret. That might make it too strong, but I don't think that's a big problem because there isn't really any benefit to massing them anymore. If they give it its auto-turret back, people will actually have a reason to open raven, and then we can actually see a single Raven being useful later on in fights if they keep it alive. Even if they nerfed the turret a bit, I think it would be a good change. It's just too hard to justify making a raven early on in any matchup except TvT, and no-one is going to make one later on because of the tech lab requirement.
Widow mine change is nice i guess but tbh this unit is still crap. They should undo the +shields splash nerf they did a while back, at the very least.
Make marauders one shot again!
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On December 08 2017 08:10 [Phantom] wrote:
So protoss is getting nerfed into the ground? Why? I thought they are the weakest at the moment? (Not following the scene that much, but from what I've seen in a couple of streams and gameplay experience).
They are basically backtracking on both the stalker and chronoboost changes...
Only halfway for the chrono and stalker change.
Honestly, this is gunna stay this way until we deal with Warp Gate.
You can't have strong midgame units with good map control when you have instant warpin and ignore the map completely :/
Either the Warp Prism needs to be nerfed (where did that upgrade for the slow->fast warpin go?) or Warp Gate itself needs to become later in the tech tree, ala templar level. Once that's done and you remove so much centralization of power you can start messing with giving Protoss strong gateway units, and make them less reliant off of harassment.
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The main thing that needs to be fixed about the game (design-wise not balance-wise) are mass air battles but for some reason the devs refuse to adress or even acknowledge this is a problem.
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Blizzard answer to proxy oracle in TvP :
- nerf oracle damage to 3 shot scv/marines
- nerf chronoboost so oracle come 8 sec later
- reduce window mine build to make sure terran can get at least 1 mine (2 is possible aswell)
Seems a bit overkill i would say. Blizzard like to please the terran community.
Basically oracles are worst now than 3 months ago.
it's not a bad thing in a way because that unit is dumb but if you cut protoss cheese too much terrans will feel like kings and get greedy as fuck.
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how on earth maps without platform for reaper even getting into ladder jesus christ...
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Yes, please nerf toss into the ground because having PvT slightly toss favoured is absolutely disgusting, while having it even below 45% for months was "fine" and "let the meta settle" and of course "let toss figure it out".
Also, nothing about nerfs to zerg when they dominate both ZvT and ZvP. But as per usual the anti-toss bias is strong and terran whiners are getting what they want just because they're loud and whiny. Great.
Some changes were needed for PvT? Probably. But instead of "let the meta settle" and "let terrans figure it out", we get billions of nerfs to toss. Yes, I'm salty about this.
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The changes are pretty crap, toss overnerf too fast, raven will still be useless, mines will still be banelings with friendly fire.
At least all the toss salt makes it entertaining.
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As I said a million times before, Terran whining is simply amazing. Blizzard takes no time to nerf everyone else to boost up Terran. This update seems to follow the pattern.
Terran's mech (AKA the cancer) is already overbuffed to the point it is viable (and recommended) in all matchups (including the freaking TvT). At this point, Terran plays mech against Z constantly. Who would go for bio if Mech wins the day in ZvT, right? Even bio is still winnable in ZvT thanks to MULES.
Let's pray the BlizzLord not to buff Hellions and Hellbats next because lings all-in are too strong.
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I don't like so many changes to Protoss all at once, what with them being two kinda big changes. I'd so much rather they do one first then the other. I'm not sure how I feel about the changes for Disruptors either, but I'm leaning towards okay.
I've felt that the reason Ravens haven't been used much is because nobody in higher leagues has used them, and to a very noticeable effect, and until that happens was doubtful they'd be used much across the ladder. I think, from what admittedly little I've been watching of mech, it feels like Ravens are contributing so much less than Medivacs, since, unlike Medivacs' loading and boosting not requiring the resources that healing does, as well as healing not requiring action from the player other than having units nearby, Raven abilities all require a little more something and feel noticeably different, in a comparatively negative way, from the other big support unit. Additionally, Ravens prior to the change required less energy to use any of their abilities iirc (or maybe just two?) which made them able to affect the battlefield more regularly. Now, it feels like it does so little in comparison to its former self which seems to also steer Terrans away from it a little bit. To me, in the grander context of the whole game, they seemed pretty good before and obviously better now. Reducing the Anti-Armor Missile cost could help, but I wonder if players are actually going to play with them more and feel at all noticeably better/less bad about them or if they will continue not being used because they don't feel as effective in-game as the old Raven. I could be totally wrong, of course, and it's just a matter of them being a little low in power, but that's honestly not what I've been seeing with my own eyeballs. Either way, interesting changes, also after previewing my post sorry this rambling on the Raven covers half a darn page.
Widow Mine build time reduction... idk, dude. On a couple maps they always catch me in that one spot that I don't check, tucked away in some corner I don't see. The second thing that came to mind was mine drop flashbacks and that coming back somehow, so I hope that doesn't happen for my own sake.
On December 08 2017 08:05 Avexyli wrote:Here's the Blackpink change we were considering: ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/pizFcFr.jpg)
I like this. A couple of years ago I hated Reaper platforms, idk why but I'm much more open to them nowadays. Maybe I'm a tiny bit better of a player? Maybe it's because Reapers aren't crazy powerful lately? Regardless, I like map tweaks a lot and always want more thoughts on them from Blizz all the time.
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thanks for explaining some things, update should bring amazing things. and yeah, i agree that they are basically backtracking on both the stalker and chronoboost changes
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They simply don't know what to do about the game. Make some changes, then roll them back. Like, those changes were supposed to refresh the game, there was so much time to think them over. Protoss buff was obvious with 4.0 patch, aswell as that WM nerf would significantly influence on TvP. I just dunno what they were expecting with those changes. With those buffs/nerfs terran just needed something in return. But now they just undo 4.0 patch, GJ.
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Nexus
Chrono Boost strength reduced from 100% to 50% and duration per cast increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
After I see this sentence, i am very upset.
Don't you know that Chrono Boost destroy the Starcraft 2 balance?
You only have to reduce that strength. Increasing Duration is not an option.
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clearly toss is too strong, because Zest, patchtoss par excellence, is winning again
User was warned for this post
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We were seeing new strats and units from T and Z to fight toss, even mech, but blizzard shuts immediately the last changes. It's just sad, back to more boring builds and compositions from P, T and Z, again.
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This looks all very reasonable.
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On December 08 2017 10:28 beatmaro wrote:
Nexus
Chrono Boost strength reduced from 100% to 50% and duration per cast increased from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
After I see this sentence, i am very upset.
Don't you know that Chrono Boost destroy the Starcraft 2 balance?
You only have to reduce that strength. Increasing Duration is not an option.
It's actually a significant nerf that hurts the power of saving up chrono for sharp timings.
Or would you rather we have the old, lame chronoboost that does 15%boost at a constant rate?
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These are good changes to balance the match up. Protoss is still too OP right now. It's pretty easy to win if you're Protoss.
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fucking with stalkers is getting old. no particular comment on balance - haven't played enough to understand balance, and stalker adept feels strong to me in pvt. but regardless of balance i don't want to learn a third version of the stalker with another different attack speed. the identity of the unit is being destroyed. it's one of my favorite units to use as protoss (i also play zerg), i loved the new version because i don't like opening adepts, and now it's just rolling back toward where it was.
ive been avoiding zerg on the new patch because zvp feels easy and zvt/zvz feel exactly the same, and i also enjoy shield batteries and new stalkers. but the constant oracle and stalker changes are making it difficult to get comfortable with the race. really unhappy with this
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EPT
