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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On November 20 2017 14:44 youngjiddle wrote: too much apm for the type of terrans that sit in their base all game. The vod of Rogue vs Inno that shows why speedbanshees don't work against SH (in a word, hydras) is literally a few posts above your own. But sure, spew bullshit instead. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16086 Posts
On November 20 2017 14:10 ThunderJunk wrote: I pretty much never even run into Swarmhosts as a P so idc  Rogue's 2 base SH play hasn't infested the ladder? | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12133 Posts
On November 20 2017 17:16 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue's 2 base SH play hasn't infested the ladder? It's rare and depends on the map. I see SH mostly as a desperation move against the lategame deathball. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On November 20 2017 14:06 engesser1 wrote: Watched Ryung and Innovation... this shit is going deeper and deeper. Balance thing, where are you? what shit ? what happened ? | ||
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engesser1
264 Posts
P R O T O S S M A S S S T A L K E R so much pain, so much frustration. | ||
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Comedy
469 Posts
First, shield battery is argueably stronger than msc and has much more utility throughout the game. You can spam them in case of being allined, and later on they'll still be usefull when fighting off mutas or drops, we've seen games where protoss only had 1 or 2 phoenix but able to completly negate muta switches because of shield battery. Then, Stalker and collosus both got buffed, so zerg will have a harder time surviving against 3 base timings, either pure stalker blink Hots style or stalker collosus. And since you can no longer fungal while burrowed, this sucks hard for late game when fungaling interceptors was actually really usefull. Combined with only 7 range on ITS it's going to be pretty messed up for Zerg once again to fight vs protoss sky army which has been unbeatable since 2013. Parasitic bomb + Fungal combo is less effective vs void rays. Recall once every 2 minutes means that protoss can fake engage 3 or 4 times and just recall, to ensure that infestors are low energy and then just destroy the fight. I'm really worried for PvZ in the new patch. | ||
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ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Now when Ravens are nerfed into the ground the old turtle mech into mass Ravens do not work anymore. Basically Zerg late game is stronger than Terran mech late game since Zerg have really strong tech switches and still have Vipers which hard counters mech. Mech does not have anything to turtle to in the late game which forces mech to attack earlier since it best to damage the Zerg before he can bank up too many resources for a tech switch or get too many vipers. This is good for the game since the old turle mech was boring. The problem is that Swarm Hosts prevents the mech player from moving out and attacking. With the Swarm Hosts gone aggressive mech becomes possible without strengthening turtle mech since there is nothing to turtle to any more. Basically Swarm Hosts are not needed. Zerg are perfectly fine without them. And in their current state Swarm Hosts just damages the gameplay and viewing experience. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On November 20 2017 22:09 ihatevideogames wrote: What about giving Swarm Hosts energy and moving the Infested Terrans to the Swarm Host? So then Zerg is forced to choose, use energy on Locusts that shred ground units/buildings or use it on ITs. It would give the unit a general theme and identity as well. It would also make the Infestor less of a 'I make 40 of them and auto-win' unit and the cool stuff that Blizzard wanted to experiment with on the Infestor can be brought back as well. plz, no 3rd unit that protoss can F click to death | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16086 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
Now when swarm hosts are nerfed into the ground the old turtle zerg with mass SH does not work anymore. Basically Terran late game is stronger than Zerg late game since Terran have the best static defence, 5 armor thors, stronger cyclones and teleporting BCs that hard counter everything but corruptors. Zerg does not have anything to turtle to in the late game besides mass infestors (which are getting nerfed) which forces Zerg to attack earlier since it best to damage the mech before they can bank up too many resources for a mass air/mass planetary or get too many battlecruisers and tanks. This is good for the game since the old turle zerg was boring. The problem is that siege tanks prevent the zerg from moving out and attacking. With the siege tanks gone aggressive ZvMech becomes possible without strengthening turtle zerg since there is nothing to turtle to after the infestor and viper nerf Basically siege tanks are not needed. Terran are perfectly fine without them. And in their current state siege tanks just damage the gameplay and viewing experience. | ||
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ilililililililiii
United States93 Posts
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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halomonian
Brazil255 Posts
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17746 Posts
On November 20 2017 22:58 MockHamill wrote: I think removing the Swarm Hosts would improve both the viewing experience and the playing experience. On November 20 2017 23:23 Ej_ wrote: I think removing the siege tank would improve TvZ both the viewing experience and the playing experience. removing the posts that suggest removing units .... improves the viewing experience of this thread. so many changes to the game ... i say we wait at least 2 weeks ... see how things play out ... and then make further changes after that... | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17746 Posts
On November 21 2017 03:35 Ansibled wrote: I can't believe someone would actually suggest removing the siege tank, it's like the most iconic Terran unit i think its a joke/troll. of course you could be trolling me by pretending you didn't know it was a joke. | ||
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StarscreamG1
Portugal1653 Posts
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On November 20 2017 19:17 Comedy wrote: I feel like PvZ is getting pretty messed up from all these changes. First, shield battery is argueably stronger than msc and has much more utility throughout the game. You can spam them in case of being allined, and later on they'll still be usefull when fighting off mutas or drops, we've seen games where protoss only had 1 or 2 phoenix but able to completly negate muta switches because of shield battery. Then, Stalker and collosus both got buffed, so zerg will have a harder time surviving against 3 base timings, either pure stalker blink Hots style or stalker collosus. And since you can no longer fungal while burrowed, this sucks hard for late game when fungaling interceptors was actually really usefull. Combined with only 7 range on ITS it's going to be pretty messed up for Zerg once again to fight vs protoss sky army which has been unbeatable since 2013. Parasitic bomb + Fungal combo is less effective vs void rays. Recall once every 2 minutes means that protoss can fake engage 3 or 4 times and just recall, to ensure that infestors are low energy and then just destroy the fight. I'm really worried for PvZ in the new patch. how can anyone think that a stationary building which needs units under it to anything offers more utility throughout the game than the mobile pylon shooting mothership core which had two other uses too. And the cost of them is increasing in the next patch. lol. you also forgot to mention that recall is delayed, leaves units vulnerable, and gives plenty of time for corrupters to snipe units. What a poor analysis. Also don't forget that double the parastic bomb damage is better vs massive high HP units making them easier to pop, whereas the old parasitic bomb might have only tickled them unless if you had a ton of vipers with energy which is much harder to get. New viper is more efficient in the poking war imo. It honestly seems good now, in the past patch zergs had to either trade and remake large armies or turtle behind static defense (both great options for beating mass air). But I haven't seen many progames yet. | ||
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