EPTWCS Global Finals: Quarterfinals Preview - Page 5
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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lestye
United States4253 Posts
On November 02 2017 01:39 pvsnp wrote: Both wins were 2-1 ZvZs. I mean, a win is a win. But 2-1 in a ZvZ....... A hot streak is a hot streak, let it ride! | ||
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Executer08
Germany163 Posts
At WCS Valencia, he gave Neeb his only loss in the WCS Circuit all year the only knockout loss, neeb actually lost a series in the group stage in the first 3 events. On November 3rd Rogue will do his best to channel Canada Bill because through his eyes, herO is a sucker hehe, as herO likes to dance his units (in victory and defeat) he might be a sucker indeed ;D nice article overall and i like the flavor of the predictions. a little bit unorthodox, but not too crazy  my predictions: special 3-1 elazer, soO 3-2 gumiho, herO 3-2 rogue, inno 3-1 ty | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 03 2017 05:57 FrkFrJss wrote:Thatis very true. Upon reconsidering, it is true that beating X players does not mean that Y is at the same level. And it is also true that Korea still dominates the foreign WCS Circuit when they meet (for the most part). However, I would like to point out that I never claimed that they were on equal footing, what I said was, and you quoted "Is it really that inferior," and it's the "that" that I want to focus on. I guess what we're disagreeing with is the actual difference between the Korean scene and the foreign scene as a whole, not just the top ten foreigners or the top ten Koreans. Also, 8 players managed to break into the ro32 over the course of the GSL Seasons 1,2, and 3. Now, none of them broke into the ro16, but some came close. But the thing is, you fail to mention my other argument. Is it not possible for a person who is weaker (Neeb) to underperform versus a person who is stronger (Rogue, soO), and I think that logically one has to say that both can underperform. Am I saying that Neeb is necessarily better than either of them? No, I am not. What I am saying is that he did not perform to his regular standards regardless of whether or not he would have won if he had performed to those standards. Sorry it was someone else that claimed Neeb was better than soO (or something stupid like that) Anyway, the foreigners had 10 attempts in GSL this year and none of them got out of the ro32. 10/12 players that got into Katowice playoffs were korean. None of the foreigners even qualified for IEM Shangai other than iAsonu. WeSG was the definition of a beatdown. The WCS Circuit is inferior in terms of skill. I don't see how you can interpret the results any other way And I wont argue whether Neeb underperformed that much or not. But when he's supposedly "underperforming" every time he faces korean opponents, then it's not really underperforming at that point, it's just his normal skill level. Personally I don't think he did that badly, going 2-5 against soO and Rogue is what I'd expect of him. And I've considered him a top 5 protoss for most of the year (along with Stats, herO, Classic, and either sOs or Dear) | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1208 Posts
On November 03 2017 08:47 Fango wrote: Sorry it was someone else that claimed Neeb was better than soO (or something stupid like that) Anyway, the foreigners had 10 attempts in GSL this year and none of them got out of the ro32. 10/12 players that got into Katowice playoffs were korean. None of the foreigners even qualified for IEM Shangai other than iAsonu. WeSG was the definition of a beatdown. The WCS Circuit is inferior in terms of skill. I don't see how you can interpret the results any other way And I wont argue whether Neeb underperformed that much or not. But when he's supposedly "underperforming" every time he faces korean opponents, then it's not really underperforming at that point, it's just his normal skill level. Personally I don't think he did that badly, going 2-5 against soO and Rogue is what I'd expect of him. And I've considered him a top 5 protoss for most of the year (along with Stats, herO, Classic, and either sOs or Dear) That's fair. I wouldn't disagree that the WCS Circuit is worse than the Korean one. I think they're getting better, but obviously, they have a ways to go. And with regards to Neeb underperforming offline, I have to add in the GSL versus The World. This is about what I'd expect if Neeb was playing to the level that I think he is capable of. He won convincingly against sOs, which I don't think was a huge surprise, and then he lost 2-3 against TY. It is true that he struggle offline against Koreans, no question, but I've seen him in moments (and generally online) beat or go toe to toe with top Koreans Terrans and especially Zerg. (Beating Solar 3-0 was notable), and while online is obviously different than offline, I've seen what he's been capable of, and it's disappointing to see him not reach that potential yet. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
 herO's got this whole tournament! | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 03 2017 09:10 FrkFrJss wrote: That's fair. I wouldn't disagree that the WCS Circuit is worse than the Korean one. I think they're getting better, but obviously, they have a ways to go. And with regards to Neeb underperforming offline, I have to add in the GSL versus The World. This is about what I'd expect if Neeb was playing to the level that I think he is capable of. He won convincingly against sOs, which I don't think was a huge surprise, and then he lost 2-3 against TY. It is true that he struggle offline against Koreans, no question, but I've seen him in moments (and generally online) beat or go toe to toe with top Koreans Terrans and especially Zerg. (Beating Solar 3-0 was notable), and while online is obviously different than offline, I've seen what he's been capable of, and it's disappointing to see him not reach that potential yet. Beating sOs is a difficult one to judge. sOs said himself that he only cares about winning GSL and other tournaments he just plays for fun. His results would indicate that (he barely enters any other tournaments and when he's forced to like in NW, GSLvsTW, or ST2, he fails). Losing 2-3 to TY is a much bigger deal imo, although he lost it's the kind of results that shows that anything can happen, if it was a bo3 instead of bo5 he might have one. However TY was clearly the better player in that series. Online results hold little value, who cares if he beats Solar 3-0? Solar probably doesn't care that he lost in whatever event that was | ||
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
On November 03 2017 06:41 DieuCure wrote: uThermal won a bo3 against INno at Katowice, is uT better than INno ? I think so Koreans even say uthermal is a good player | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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stevemachine17
45 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On November 03 2017 09:34 Twinkle Toes wrote: Koreans even say uthermal is a good player I'm sure they do, but I also think the Koreans might just possibly say Inno is a slightly-better-than-good player. Slightly. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
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lioneros
15 Posts
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Twinkle Toes
United States3605 Posts
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Circumstance
United States11403 Posts
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phyren
United States1067 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97277 Posts
ah shit they got me. i got baited | ||
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AaBbCc
New Zealand110 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On November 03 2017 21:41 Twinkle Toes wrote: Neeb winning vs. Rogue in a strategy-based macro super late game was epic! Too bad he got dropped in the next matchups. he may have gotten to the late game with strategy, but after 200/200 skytoss neither side wins with strategy. it's 100% about positioning and heavily hinges on how quickly and accurately zerg uses spells. for toss it's more about not overextending into spores and having archons/templar in position to mop up corruptors and feedback vipers and infestors | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1208 Posts
On November 04 2017 11:54 brickrd wrote: he may have gotten to the late game with strategy, but after 200/200 skytoss neither side wins with strategy. it's 100% about positioning and heavily hinges on how quickly and accurately zerg uses spells. for toss it's more about not overextending into spores and having archons/templar in position to mop up corruptors and feedback vipers and infestors Doesn't that make it even better for Neeb? That's basically saying that Neeb beat Rogue in a battle of fundamentals. | ||
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