EPTWCS Global Finals: Quarterfinals Preview - Page 3
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Veluvian
Bulgaria256 Posts
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Kafka777
361 Posts
On November 02 2017 07:15 Kafka777 wrote: Show nested quote + You are underestimating foreigners? In reality the fact Neeb and Serral got eliminated is a huge upset. Neeb is better than Soo in PvZ and Serral could have and should have eliminated Inno or Gumiho. But this is just how tournaments go. It is still possible that a foreigner will win the tournament. What kind of nonsense is this. Neeb somehow better than soO? The only korean zergs Neeb has ever beaten offline are Pet and Rogue (who recovered and beat Neeb 2-0 in a complete bop). If it was a close 2-1 or something I'd understand, but he went 2-5 against Rogue and soO overall Serral went 1-4 against Gumiho, who isn't even close to Inno's level in TvZ. And the only map he won was a proxyhatch that went unscouted. A foreigner will not win blizzcon either. Unless you expect soO/Inno/herO/Rogue to play as badly as Stats did You are really underestimating how good Neeb is. I must admit Soo outsmarted Neeb and Neeb underperformed. Rogue is another story altogether but also outsmarted Neeb who failed to adjust. Serral also underperformed, nevertheless Gumiho played excellent. He truly would have a better chance against Inno. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
On November 02 2017 02:56 Argonauta wrote: WCS Champions; 2014: NONAME (Z) 2015: SoS (P) 2016: ByuN (T) 2017: ¿Rogue? (Z) Its obviously time for a Zerg to win it all. Bad logic. The real history of Starcraft II is: 2010:  Genius2011:  Mvp 2012: PartinG 2013: sOs 2014:  Life 2015 sOs 2016: ByuN If one were to think the cycle is modular, it could be mod 5 smallest. Thus by your logic, herO should actually win the tournament this year.Which is, coincidentally, my prediction also. My predictions: Round of 8 MajOr 3-2 ElazersoO 3-1 GuMihoherO 3-2 RogueINnoVation 3-1 TYRound of 4: soO 3-2 MajOrherO 3-2 INnoVationFinals: herO 4-3 soO | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On November 02 2017 07:15 Kafka777 wrote: You are underestimating foreigners? In reality the fact Neeb and Serral got eliminated is a huge upset. Neeb is better than Soo in PvZ and Serral could have and should have eliminated Inno or Gumiho. But this is just how tournaments go. It is still possible that a foreigner will win the tournament. Of course Neeb is better than soO in PvZ since soO plays ZvP. ZvP happened to be soO's best match up going into the tournament, so him beating a non-Korean in the match up isn't a huge upset, even if PvZ is that players best match up. | ||
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Vutalisk
United States680 Posts
Let focus on the players that actually make it to this round instead. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1207 Posts
On November 02 2017 07:54 Kafka777 wrote: You are really underestimating how good Neeb is. I must admit Soo outsmarted Neeb and Neeb underperformed. Rogue is another story altogether but also outsmarted Neeb who failed to adjust. Serral also underperformed, nevertheless Gumiho played excellent. He truly would have a better chance against Inno. It is tough to say how good Neeb truly was against Zerg since we only had three series, and he lost badly in the latter two. I'm not sure I would still necessarily favour Neeb over soO even if Neeb was performing optimally, but I would have given him even odds, and I do agree with you that Neeb definitely did underperform. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 02 2017 09:19 FrkFrJss wrote: It is tough to say how good Neeb truly was against Zerg since we only had three series, and he lost badly in the latter two. I'm not sure I would still necessarily favour Neeb over soO even if Neeb was performing optimally, but I would have given him even odds, and I do agree with you that Neeb definitely did underperform. soO's definitely favoured imo since his playstyle matches up incredibly well against Neeb's. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On November 02 2017 07:54 Kafka777 wrote: You are really underestimating how good Neeb is. I must admit Soo outsmarted Neeb and Neeb underperformed. Rogue is another story altogether but also outsmarted Neeb who failed to adjust. Serral also underperformed, nevertheless Gumiho played excellent. He truly would have a better chance against Inno. You think Serral would have a better shot against Inno? Serral couldn't even beat Gumiho's bio and Inno's bio is miles ahead of that. Inno is the best TvZ player in the world and has more or less constantly held that title since 2013. In their GSL vs the World match, Inno literally threw away 30 supply for nothing and still beat Serral. Yes, he played poorly against True. Everyone has off days. Inno's form looked much better the next day. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On November 02 2017 07:54 Kafka777 wrote: You are really underestimating how good Neeb is. I must admit Soo outsmarted Neeb and Neeb underperformed. Rogue is another story altogether but also outsmarted Neeb who failed to adjust. Serral also underperformed, nevertheless Gumiho played excellent. He truly would have a better chance against Inno. Give me one good reason to say he's better in the matchup than soO. Just one.... He has litterally zero results that indicate so. Crushing victories against Snute and Nerchio don't compare. Domination in WCS circuit doesn't compare when none of it's players can beat GSL ro32. And Neeb didn't even underperform that much, look at his results at WeSG and Katowice. Same thing every time, he can beat all the foreigners but consistantly falls to top koreans. Serral has even less results to indicate he's as good as Gumiho or Innovation. Look at his offline record vs korean terrans. And don't think I'm just a foreigner hater, I predicted Serral to win against Gumiho beforehand, because of how much I've heard about his online results etc. But I'll admit I was wrong on that one. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On November 02 2017 07:50 Veluvian wrote: I am a big TY fan, but now I just can't see how he can beat Bogus.. He will and easily | ||
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curufinwe_wins
68 Posts
Bogus has been practicing with Special. TY has no chance.  Damn it is cool that you can say that and actually not be completely full of shit. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On November 02 2017 10:10 curufinwe_wins wrote: Bogus has been practicing with Special. TY has no chance. Damn it is cool that you can say that and actually not be completely full of shit. "Completely" being the operative word. | ||
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Justinian
United Kingdom158 Posts
soO 3-2 GuMiho herO 3-1 Rogue INnoVation 3-1 TY soO 3-0 Elazer herO 3-2 INnoVation herO 2-4 soO | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1207 Posts
On November 02 2017 09:35 Fango wrote: Give me one good reason to say he's better in the matchup than soO. Just one.... He has litterally zero results that indicate so. Crushing victories against Snute and Nerchio don't compare. Domination in WCS circuit doesn't compare when none of it's players can beat GSL ro32. And Neeb didn't even underperform that much, look at his results at WeSG and Katowice. Same thing every time, he can beat all the foreigners but consistantly falls to top koreans. Serral has even less results to indicate he's as good as Gumiho or Innovation. Look at his offline record vs korean terrans. And don't think I'm just a foreigner hater, I predicted Serral to win against Gumiho beforehand, because of how much I've heard about his online results etc. But I'll admit I was wrong on that one. Well Neeb underperformed heavily in Katowice as well. Also, Terran had a 59% winrate vs Protoss in January. And yes, he did underperform a lot because his play was quite full of wholes, and it seemed unconfident. So not necessarily underperformed with regards to past results but with regard to actual performance of play. Let's see, what gave me confidence for Neeb was that ShoWTimE was almost able to win against soO, and Neeb is better than ShoWTimE in PvZ, and again we never got to see his full performance against soO since the first game seemed to break him. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
This is their record for 2017.. soO's anti-mech in general has always been one of the few weaknesses in his play imo. I'm going Gumiho 3-0 | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 02 2017 11:18 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Haven't watched that much sc2 in recent months, but why in the world is everyone favoring soO over Gumiho? It feels like the GSL finals all over again. I'm looking at the stats and nothing leads me to believe soO has been significantly more dominant lately outside of his ZvP. This is their record for 2017.. soO's anti-mech in general has always been one of the few weaknesses in his play imo. I'm going Gumiho 3-0 Because storylines are more powerful than statistics and another soO second place seems written in the stars in bolded 96 point font. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On November 02 2017 11:18 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Haven't watched that much sc2 in recent months, but why in the world is everyone favoring soO over Gumiho? It feels like the GSL finals all over again. I'm looking at the stats and nothing leads me to believe soO has been significantly more dominant lately outside of his ZvP. This is their record for 2017.. soO's anti-mech in general has always been one of the few weaknesses in his play imo. I'm going Gumiho 3-0 There are some reasons to believe soO can do it: 1) soO just 2-0'ed GuMiho in Master's Coliseum. (I didn't watch the games, so I can't comment on what happened) 2) His getting in first place in SSL Challenger was off the back of going 3-0 against Terran player.s (ByuN, Bunny, and jjakji) 3) He has 5 very recent GuMiho TvZ games to study. I still think GuMiho is going to win, but I can see why people think soO can do it. Well, minus the people who act like soO never loses before the finals. That's absolutely not true. | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On November 02 2017 13:12 Clazziquai10 wrote: Seeing the comments of Serral fanboys made me laugh. Serral > Innovation? Really? Does anyone in their right mind honestly believe that? I doubt even Serral's mother believes that. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
In any case, Neeb is out now so it's time to stop hating on him / overhyping him. As I said, I genuinely do think Neeb was good enough to get out of his group, but those games on the second day just really didn't not allow him to show his true strengths. Nonetheless, anyone who thinks it was a huge upset not to get out of a group with Rogue and soO is delusional. Rogue was definitely the favourite for this group, and although people gave Neeb a slight edge over soO, it was basically entirely based off mostly irrelevant games against foreigners, plus the fact that he could concentrate purely on one matchup. In the end, he did prove that his PvZ can match up to the top Korean zergs, but also showed that he still has glaring weaknesses in his play and still has a long road ahead of him. He gave us some great games and some not so great games. He got a bit unlucky, but he's out now. His blizzcon run is over and let's stop talking about him in regards to this tournament. Serral was honestly really disappointing. I still believe in the raw skill of this kid but I have a feeling we are gonna be waiting a while before he really shows us to these big offline tournaments. His ZvT has always been shaky but it had sounded like it had improved tremendously while in Korea. That didn't really show this tournament. It might be one of these cases like Neeb where they are fine against Terran in practice, but struggle in their vT matchups in tournament series. Unfortunately, that's not a great weakness to have when you're usually going to have to face off against a top tier terran at some point to win any non-region locked tournament. (KeSPA cup was a big exception) | ||
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