GSL Super Tournament 2 - Full Player List

On September 17 2017 21:06 engesser1 wrote:
maru vs rogue, the biggest fck you of the year. why? why, it's happened?

On September 17 2017 21:11 _Epi_ wrote:
Innovations only downfall could be if Classic is getting beaten by aLive, since he is Innovations Cryptonite. But I doubt Classic looses to aLive.

On September 17 2017 21:11 _Epi_ wrote:
Innovations only downfall could be if Classic is getting beaten by aLive, since he is Innovations Cryptonite. But I doubt Classic looses to aLive.

On September 17 2017 21:11 _Epi_ wrote:
Innovations only downfall could be if Classic is getting beaten by aLive, since he is Innovations Cryptonite. But I doubt Classic looses to aLive.

On September 17 2017 22:35 AzAlexZ wrote:
wait, why didn't Neeb, Scarlett and Major attempt to qualify for this?

On September 17 2017 22:35 AzAlexZ wrote:
wait, why didn't Neeb, Scarlett and Major attempt to qualify for this?

On September 17 2017 21:45 Fango wrote:


People forget Classic rekt Inno in SSL the other week. Made him look like a complete scrub

On September 17 2017 22:46 Charoisaur wrote:

But Inno practiced his TvP a lot for the gsl finals, probably even with Classic.

On September 17 2017 23:06 sashkata wrote:
This tournament has the potential to be very dramatic considering how close people are in points. It's going to be quite the battle for the last Blizzcon spot.

On September 18 2017 01:55 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Were matches decided at random? How is Ryung the 2nd worst player if its seeded? I get time being ranked 16th but how is Ryung 15th?

On September 17 2017 22:46 Charoisaur wrote:

But Inno practiced his TvP a lot for the gsl finals, probably even with Classic.

On September 17 2017 23:58 pvsnp wrote:
ByuN and TY both failing to qualify, ouch. Seems like the other Horsemen grow weaker as Inno grows stronger.

Maybe there's a fixed pool of Terran power and Inno is taking it all for himself

On September 18 2017 04:12 Phredxor wrote:


No idea if it's seeded but Ryung at 15th seems like it would be correct.

On September 18 2017 04:38 chipmonklord17 wrote:


Based on what? He's not the second lowest in WCS standings nor does he have the 2nd worst GSL season 3 performance

On September 18 2017 04:48 Phredxor wrote:


Based on my opinion of the players qualified.

On September 18 2017 05:40 chipmonklord17 wrote:


Thank god we use such objective measures of seeding

On September 18 2017 06:01 Phredxor wrote:


Sadly they didn't actually ask me to seed this tournament.

On September 18 2017 09:24 Gen.Rolly wrote:
Only 3 zerg :O

On September 18 2017 13:45 Dracover wrote:


Well looking at his potential matchups, if he beats ryung (most likely) He will likely get 2 PvPs against Hero and Stats.

On September 18 2017 17:27 Mun_Su wrote:
For my part I tried HARD to watch Wcs Foreigners, but it was just unwatchable... how can True or Nerchio be in Blizzcon while Maru Rogue and Classic are battling for a spot...

On September 18 2017 17:53 engesser1 wrote:
I find this year frustrating. I just can't take it. Maru (the genius) and Rogue (the genius) will beat each other (sighing) in a ro16? While 8 guys from WCS Circuit are not even close with them. I can't take it. Just can't.

On September 18 2017 18:04 deacon.frost wrote:

In football the regions get positions for participants based on their quality. That's why Europe has 40 % of spots(33 % in 2026). And we're talking about football where there is South America(12 countries + 3 territories get 4.5 spots and 6(!!!) in the future). While Europe is just 10 % of the population of Earth and houses around 25 % of the total sovereign recognized states in the world.

Comparing this system to football is offensive as even corrupted FIFA acknowledges there's a difference in skill.

On September 19 2017 01:25 ParksonVN wrote:


Doesn't Korea also make up 0.7% population of the world and get 8 out of 16 slots in Blizzcon also ?

On September 19 2017 02:06 Fango wrote:


Representive in terms of number of top players.

It's a video game, not the olympics. The places should go to the most skilled players. If you wanna see country vs country watch Nation Wars, WeSG, or GSL vs TW

On September 19 2017 04:53 The_Red_Viper wrote:

If you wanna watch the most skilled players watch SSL/GSL/korean weekenders. Same argumentation style
Is it completely "fair" that foreigners get 8 spots if we only look at the relative skill levels? No.
Do foreigners have the exact same opportunities to get as good as koreans? No. There is no objective fairness in all of this.

On September 19 2017 07:36 DieuCure wrote:
Worst statement ever Diabolique, the amount of points paid wasnt the same.

- Remove region lock

or

- WCS circuit champions only attend to Blizzcon

On September 19 2017 09:05 Fango wrote:


I do watch GSL/SSL. My point is that blizzcon is THE event of the year. It has the biggest prizepool/viewship/audience/hype/historical impact. You win blizzcon you will always be remembered for it.

That's why it should be the best players only, no one should get an easy seed. You want to see a "representation" of the entire world at one event? That's what WeSG did and it turned out...well... a bit boring to say the least

I don't care if you argue foreigners don't have the same opportunities to get good or whatever. I'm sure there are sc2 players in random countries that have no chance to get good due to unreliable internet/ no LAN events or whatever. Doesn't mean they should get an easy blizzcon seed. No one should

On September 19 2017 07:36 DieuCure wrote:
Worst statement ever Diabolique, the amount of points paid wasnt the same.

- Remove region lock

or

- WCS circuit champions only attend to Blizzcon

On September 19 2017 16:03 Diabolique wrote:

That is easy. Balance the number of points given ... But otherwise, 4+4 winners and the 8 remaining based on performances for all is ideal.

On September 19 2017 09:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:


But foreigners don't even get an "easy" blizzcon seed. It's not like we invite the best player out of every country. There is a tournament circuit you have to compete in and only the top8 get a spot. Are these 8 actually in the top16 of the world? No probably not but we aren't talking about some randoms getting into blizzcon here either (which basically happened with WESG)
Do we only want a tournament scene in korea? Right now we have two scenes so it's just natural that people out of both scenes should be at blizzcon. It's arguable if the foreign scene "deserves" 8 spots but atm it's a simple split, that seems decent at least.

It's funny that i argue FOR the foreigners btw because i actually am not invested in wcs at all. I still think it only can be positive for starcraft to have the wcs scene

On September 19 2017 21:52 Fango wrote:


It's a hell of a lot easier for foreigners than for koreans. You think TRUE would be getting top 8 if he stayed in korea? Or Elazer, Kela, and Special wouldn't be losing in the GSL ro32 every season?

I'm not against the region lock anymore. I just think that giving half the seeds to Circuit just results in a shitty blizzcon ro16, and is unfair to the players in korea that work harder and are better as a result

edit: my point is that getting a blizzcon spot without even being a top 20 player of that year counts as an easy seed

On September 19 2017 23:08 Morbidius wrote:

I I forgot foreigners can only practice 6 hours a day, imagine what they could do if they had the chance to practice as much as koreans, so unfair.

On September 19 2017 23:42 The_Red_Viper wrote:


In a vacuum it is harder to become good enough for top 8 in korea, sure. But simply saying (again) that it's only the hard work of koreans which does that is kinda ridiculous. They live in korea, have the korean ladder to practice on, most of them had kespa teamhouses to train in, etc. The korean infrastructure directly helped them succeed.
The end result is true though, koreans have more "skill" on average. Does that mean that they should get more out of blizzcon? Maybe. The main problem still is the split tournament structure and scene though.
As long as all the players don't play in the same tournaments results are messy and inaccurate. That's how it is.
Havign the best of both scenes compete at blizzcon seems like a decent solution even if it doesn't reflect the skill levels perfectly but as i am not sure if it even has to because i think the main argument of "how hard it is to get there" isn't nearly as straightfoward as you guys wanna imply.

Also, even if it's easier to get good in korea than anywhere else. The competition is several times harder, which outways that by a large margin. It is much more difficult for a player to live in korea for a while and get top 8, than to live in europe for a while and get top 8 there

On September 20 2017 01:10 pvsnp wrote:

Obligatory reminder that Inno did spend a year on Acer, before deciding to return to KeSPA because he was dissatisfied with his individual results. He immediately won GSL upon joining SKT and brought a silver medal as a gift for his new teammate.

Those first few weeks must've been awkward with soO, I imagine.

On September 20 2017 00:43 Fango wrote:
Even with the advantages that korean pros have had over the years. The level of compitition is simply so much higher that makes it more difficult.

imagine this:
Player 1 gets advantages by being korean and playing in korea, eventually reaches top 8 korea level

Player 2 gets no extra help. just ladder's all day in EU, eventually reaches top 8 in WCS circuit

I think I know which one had to put in more work. Even if all koreans had inherent advantages by living there, it's still harder for any of them to win an event, than for a foreigner to win a circuit event.

I believe if Innovation was never in the kespa scene and played in WCS circuit, he would still have been the best there because he practices better than anyone else (and natural skill). He would, however, never have reached his current level, without being in korea. Even Neeb claims he just practices more than than other foreigners and that's why he's better

On September 20 2017 01:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:


He had to put in more work but he also had the advantages of teamhouses, coaching, korean ladder, etc.
You cannot mathematically weigh all these things up and come to a definite conclusion. All these players are what they are not only through own determinism (which is a huge part, even in the foreign scene ) but also because of their diret surroundings allowing for it.
Which is why the region locking was a necessary thing if we wanted to develop a foreigns scene. The best way to become as good as a korean pro simply was to experience their infrastructure.
The idea of wcs was to develop a foreign one, sc2 simply isn't nearly popular enough for that to work out (and even if it were koreans would still have an advantage because of all the experience and the circumstances in korea, etc, just look at lol)

I don't think there is a good conclusion to all of this. Yes the top 16 players in the world are likely korean (or at least mostly korean) and if that is all we care for then 8-8 split is unfair. I think the issue is really not that important though tbh

On September 20 2017 06:21 DieuCure wrote:



Why ? He had a lot of tournaments to qualify, downfall since the gsl s2 2016, that was predictable.

On September 20 2017 06:44 J. Corsair wrote:

Because he is an incredibly exciting player, win or lose, and his resurgence last year breathed quite a bit of fresh air into SC2, as a whole.

On September 20 2017 06:02 J. Corsair wrote:
Still can't believe Byun won't be at blizzcon. You'd think winning the previous year qualifies you for an automatic spot for the next year. SMH

On September 20 2017 11:18 ParksonVN wrote:
Tbh, the other 8 Koreans left at home wouldn't be able to become the champion so it doesn't affect the Blizzcon result anyway. Let's call ro16 Blizzcon Wellfare showmatches before we head to the real competition afterwards. It's like football Worldcup, they give 32 slots for countries all around the world but in the end, only the top 6 European teams plus Brazil and Argentina matter.

On September 20 2017 16:17 FrkFrJss wrote:
But, to call the ro16 "Blizzcon Welfare," well first, the ro16 is played out in groups, so there are Koreans versus Koreans, but secondly, a number of Koreans actually lost in this round. It was a surprising result, but from this logic the winner of SSL season 2 and a two-time ro4 GSL player weren't the "real competition in last year's Blizzcon. Arguments can be made about that "ro4 GSL player," but I seriously doubt that the second highest WCS Korea points earner was not thought to be the "real competition."

On September 21 2017 02:40 pvsnp wrote:

Agreed. 2016 wasn't the best year for Korea, all things considered. I've got a much higher opinion of the 2017 Korean lineup. Stats, Inno, Dark, are favorites, soO, TY, Gumiho, herO, and whomever 8th place ends up being all seem more than strong enough to wreck most of the foreigners and go the distance against the favorites.

I'm anticipating a foreign bloodbath in the Ro16. Neeb has a decent shot at making it out, same for Elazer, depending on which Koreans end up in their groups (all currently unknown). Serral got a tough group (Inno and probably Gumi), and has disappointed on the big stage before. The other foreigners are so many sacrificial lambs.

On September 21 2017 04:24 FrkFrJss wrote:


For sure, I think the quality was much worse. I mean you look at Zest, and he had a pretty poor last half of 2016, and he was in there...and made it through mainly on the back of PvP (which so did Neeb, but then neither did especially well at Blizzcon last year).

I don't know if the argument can really be made for Solar, who beat a number of the players that were mentioned as being "good" last year. But I do agree that this year, the competition is definitely better (both with regards to the Korean and the foreign side)

The funny thing is, even against TY and Byun, foreigners did not do so badly, with Showtime doing well against Byun and Nerchio go a tight 1-2 against TY.

On September 21 2017 11:37 engesser1 wrote:
I don't know what are you talking about, but all foreigners are sucks right now. So much sucks against KR pros dudes. Seriously. Even when scene in Korea is very small, they are all still sucks. No new builds from them. No metas, no action. Only confused (lame) macro games.

Only confused (lame) macro games.

On September 22 2017 08:19 Arghmyliver wrote:
What was the qualifier for this? Zerg is underpowered?