The final day of the Super Tournament featured representatives of all three races including a pair of SSL Champions in Solar and herO, an incredibly in-form aLive and an SSL finals rematch between the ROOT Protoss and ByuL.
The first semifinal was a rather brisk one. herO easily defended ByuL's early aggression in the first two games, which he parlayed into large supply leads. He demonstrated extreme patience in build insurmountable armies before closing the deal. In Game 3 though it was herO who would be turn up the aggression, to much deadlier effect. A pylon rush at ByuL's third failed to kill the expansion, but it forced a large number of lings, putting herO at an advantage. Once more herO demonstrated sound play on his way to a 3-0 and a trip to the finals.
In the second semifinal, Solar opened up with ling/bane/hydra. aLive adapted perfectly though, building a tank heavy composition that pushed through the middle of the map and ended the game. Both players completed their tech trees in the next two games. aLive's constant harass forced a bad fight from Solar in Game 2, but Solar held firm on Abyssal Reef, dominating with brood lords to give himself a chance at 1-2. A successful hellion run-by in Game 4 roasted ten drones, only for the following ravager/ling/queen all-in to tie up the scores at 2-2. In the final game, Solar successfully transitioned into ultras after starting with ling/bane/muta. He was unable to clear aLive's mines though, and a sustained push on his sixth base put an end to his Super Tournament run.
herO started off the finals with a proxy dark shrine. aLive opened with a raven though, and easily rebuffed the initial harass. aLive countered with a pair of cloaked banshees from there, netting him 14 worker kills. An adept attack evened the worker count, but wiped out herO’s army. aLive consolidated his forces and took the game with a bio/mine push.
herO got off to a better start in game two. After killing seven workers with an oracle, he moved into adept/phoenix off three bases, with a 20 worker lead. aLive killed 15 workers with a drop, but he was still down on supply. It didn’t take long for herO to assemble a massive adept count, and after lifting almost every widow mine, he shaded in and took game two.
A push at herO’s third kicked off a period of aggression for aLive. herO suffered minimal losses and moved across the map with adept/phoenix. After preventing aLive’s third from landing, herO forced a fight through a wall of supply depots. This gave him the supply lead, something he would never relinquish despite aLive constant attempts to gain traction. In the end, herO’s superior economy and production overcome a number of questionable fights and gave him the 2-1 lead in the series.
Game four started with a pylon rush, but ended up in familiar territory with adept/phoenix against bio/mine. herO reset aLive’s army when he won a fight at his third, but follow up pressure at his third and fourth did significant damage. herO moved out and, while his adepts were shut down, his phoenixes killed 20 workers and a number of marines. aLive struck back and killed herO’s fourth and third, only to lose his army again. They players met in a number of scrappy fights with both of them at low supply and on stunted economies. aLive took the better of those trades and evened up the series.
A proxy stargate/pylon rush on Cactus Valley prevented aLive from mining his natural while herO took one of his own. He remained active with his stargate units as he moved up to a third base while researching glaives, +1 attack, and adding on a robo. aLive attacked with a liberator heavy army, killing off a base, but herO’s colossus / blink stalker army kept getting bigger. aLive tried to attack while defending, but failed on both fronts, putting herO one game away from the title.
Game six got off to a strange start with a gas steal from herO and an e-bay block on his in-base natural from aLive. Having taken the outer base, herO moved into four gates and a warp prism. When he caught a full medivac of marine/mine, the writing was on the wall. aLive just didn’t have enough to defend herO’s push, giving herO the 4-2 win and making him the GSL Super Tournament 1 Champion.
Seems like herO is back in form and aLive is in the form of his life. Would be nice to see something besides Adept/Phoenix for once though. Boring as hell to watch. Mostly adepts' fault.
Alive was playing super well, the game 4 was AWESOME, but seriously phoenix adepts is so imba... I do not think protoss players realise how hard and how magic was Alive's play in comparison with the phoenix adept style... Hero is a very good player, and probably my favorite protoss player, he is smiling all the time, losing or winning, but that's really sad for Alive
On April 10 2017 01:01 bObA wrote: Alive was playing super well, the game 4 was AWESOME, but seriously phoenix adepts is so imba... I do not think protoss players realise how hard and how magic was Alive's play in comparison with the phoenix adept style... Hero is a very good player, and probably my favorite protoss player, he is smiling all the time, losing or winning, but that's really sad for Alive
I actually cheered for Alive but I don't think you realize either how hard it is to play Adept/Phoenix. Dying because of running into Tank lines or Widow mine is par for the course when playing this style. Not to mention Protoss is on a timer because lategame Terran gets stronger as Protoss can hardly spare resources to switch tech. Any miss-micro can snowball into a disaster for both sides in current PvT meta.
There is a lot that could be discussed about playstyle and how Adept/Phoenix is the only one that pays off, but as for the imba side, numbers don't say that. We are finally at balance after 4 consecutive months of 40-45% PvT winrates. And frankly I am pretty much satisfied when I look at races representation in Ro4 and how the games unfolded, except maybe Game 6 of Grand Finals but that was really just Alive derping on his own very very hard.
im curious if you need disabled access, to work at blizzard. despite their balancing beeing ridicoulus, they didnt even publicly call David Kim the fucking loser he is.
i tune in have to watch my first sc2 games in a year just to see a fucking tossshit (no offense to hero directly, more to the shitass race itself) bullshitting his way to victory. harrassment is just stupid. i hope the e-sports cancer, known as "Blizzard" dies as slowly and painfull as SC2 itself. retarded shitpack
On April 10 2017 03:42 deadasfuuurrckgame wrote: im curious if you need disabled access, to work at blizzard. despite their balancing beeing ridicoulus, they didnt even publicly call David Kim the fucking loser he is.
i tune in have to watch my first sc2 games in a year just to see a fucking tossshit (no offense to hero directly, more to the shitass race itself) bullshitting his way to victory. harrassment is just stupid. i hope the e-sports cancer, known as "Blizzard" dies as slowly and painfull as SC2 itself. retarded shitpack
You won 2 games Alive, you didn't do that bad. Your saltiness made my manhood pulse though.
Hero may be masterful at O-P-A gangnam style, but hopefully now that DK is no longer helming balance, a close eye will be kept on it. It seems that it is a style that once you become adept at it, is like the blink stalker style that destroyed every Terran for 8 months. You know it is coming but, especially with revelation, the chances of stopping it are low.
what a sad state the sc2 community is in when the majority of the posts here are either people crying about protoss or sadness for alive. people just can't get over themselves and their protoss hate to congratulate herO on his first premier win since 2015. pretty sad
On April 10 2017 03:17 Hildegard wrote: I think fatique played a big part. Hero won 3:0 in the semis while Alive had to play five games to advance and had a much shorter break in between.
Yeah you could tell, he made some pretty big mistakes.
Congrats to herO. He's the best there is at what he does. But what he does is pretty ugly business
On April 10 2017 06:01 kajtarp wrote: It is not about protoss hate, at least by me. It is just watching phoenix adept every single game mixed with some oracles is really boring to watch.
it's no more boring to watch than marine/medivac every single game mixed with some widow mines
Alive played amazingly well. Such a great semifinals and finals. One thing I wondered about though was why Solar didn't prioritize killing the mines in game five by getting several overseers to bring with his army. They lived so long and just kept activating and decimating his army. It was a frustrating game to watch.
On April 10 2017 06:01 kajtarp wrote: It is not about protoss hate, at least by me. It is just watching phoenix adept every single game mixed with some oracles is really boring to watch.
it's no more boring to watch than marine/medivac every single game mixed with some widow mines
This. stop bullshitting about the op-ness of a strat (pheonix + adepts) when terran uses also the same strat all the time ( marines marauders medivacs mines). And did you even consider how hard it is to control pheonixes and adepts like this?
On April 10 2017 06:01 kajtarp wrote: It is not about protoss hate, at least by me. It is just watching phoenix adept every single game mixed with some oracles is really boring to watch.
it's no more boring to watch than marine/medivac every single game mixed with some widow mines
This. stop bullshitting about the op-ness of a strat (pheonix + adepts) when terran uses also the same strat all the time ( marines marauders medivacs mines). And did you even consider how hard it is to control pheonixes and adepts like this?
Except terran can do more than one thing with Bio+medivacs. It can be super interesting to watch how these guys play due to the fact that the MMM unit comp can take you anywhere in a game (some turtle upto ghost+lib/maybe viking tech before engaging, some do bunker pushes, some harass and drop etc). Terran's always been that way in sc2. Yeah the core army is 3 units, but anything can happen with them. You can actually have an early, mid, and lategame. With adept pheonix there is no lategame most of the time.
Does anyone seriously enjoy watching someone mass 20000 adepts and then bust with them (plus making a single oracle and some pheonixes) each game. I admit at the start of LoTV is was interesting to watch how people harrased with them, split up shades etc. Now it's just horrible, starting to ruin a lot of finals.
At least herO's found his new blink allin, good for him I guess.
This. stop bullshitting about the op-ness of a strat (pheonix + adepts) when terran uses also the same strat all the time ( marines marauders medivacs mines). And did you even consider how hard it is to control pheonixes and adepts like this?
Watching Terran micro with 4M is, along with Zerg micro with LBM, the highest pinnacle of Starcraft entertainment and never gets old because the micro ceiling is just so damn high. Phoenixes require some amount of micro for lifts and such, though otherwise not too much because they have the whole attack-while-moving schtick. Adepts are shade-over-enemy-and-forget. Adept/Phoenix is an utter shitshow after seeing the same build 10000 games in a row.
And the dude is talking about how boring it is, not how OP. Stop projecting your own balance bullshit.
Does anyone seriously enjoy watching someone mass 20000 adepts and then bust with them (plus making a single oracle and some pheonixes) each game. I admit at the start of LoTV is was interesting to watch how people harrased with them, split up shades etc. Now it's just horrible, starting to ruin a lot of finals.
Agree completely. Adepts were interesting a year ago. Now they're just cancer. I didn't even bother to watch GSL Finals because I knew it would be Adept-shitshow all game every game, and reading the Recap said as much.
All people complaining at adept/phoenix style, but what more can do a toss against mmm, widow mine and liberators? and mix some tanks too. Zealots are useless against widow/tank's splash, stalker get rekt by stimmed marines/marauders, colosus/disruptor get out-ranged by tanks, and mass liberators deny almost any unit in his liberation zone.
With wms, tanks and liberators terran will win a full ground battle 8/9 of 10, so the only effective way to deal with denied zones are adept's shade, and phoenix to deal with liberators at mid game before range upgrade.
Then adepts are broken? yes, they are, but are the only way to deal with current terran meta.
Massing adepts basically every game like herO did is indeed boring to watch, but so deeply rooted is Protoss hate in some Terran players that they just couldn't appreciate anything Protoss does efficiently against them. The HoTS colo deathball is boring, phoenix/adept is boring, this almost feels like racism to Protoss players who are clearly a minority group on ladder compared to Terran and this is mostly due to the different designs of the two races. Protoss play relies on map awareness ,reaction and solid control while Terran play fast pace of action, swift execution and multitasking, soit's not surprising most people find Terran play more exciting than Protoss play.
On April 10 2017 11:39 yht9657 wrote: Massing adepts basically every game like herO did is indeed boring to watch, but so deeply rooted is Protoss hate in some Terran players that they just couldn't appreciate anything Protoss does efficiently against them. The HoTS colo deathball is boring, phoenix/adept is boring, this almost feels like racism to Protoss players who are clearly a minority group on ladder compared to Terran and this is mostly due to the different designs of the two races. Protoss play relies on map awareness ,reaction and solid control while Terran play fast pace of action, swift execution and multitasking, soit's not surprising most people find Terran play more exciting than Protoss play.
I think this describes it pretty well, it just seems like the hate is always there.
Playing protoss myself, I can personally appreciate watching these plays. But no matter what it is, it feels like the hate is always there. Protoss players are making the most of what they have.
I think the general idea is that a protoss this deep into the tourney chose one strong strategy out of a possible many and as a player to a viewer experience or just as a viewer, it doesn't sit right that they get to play predictably and win through that.
if you have enough distaste for the game though, I really recommend taking a step back and understanding that this is just a game for you, but is livelihood for these individuals. they're not playing to spite you and I believe that most protoss professionals despise some of the ways they have to counter-play in matchups were it not (and sometimes despite) that it's something that can win. if you want to be a little more involved in this kind of entertainment, maybe try seriously putting an effort into the race in question and playing it out yourself. it's certainly not so easy that anyone or even most can pick up, let alone win consistently with. if you challenge it you will most certainly feel challenged by it regardless of your views beforehand.
they make it look easy because a lot of the time that is the level they have to play and hone it.
On April 10 2017 06:01 kajtarp wrote: It is not about protoss hate, at least by me. It is just watching phoenix adept every single game mixed with some oracles is really boring to watch.
I'm a bit sad as well. But that's the only way to play protoss at the moment. Other viable options do not exists.
On April 10 2017 17:19 nanaoei wrote: I think the general idea is that a protoss this deep into the tourney chose one strong strategy out of a possible many.
Not sure which possible possible strategy you are talking about?
On April 10 2017 17:19 nanaoei wrote: I think the general idea is that a protoss this deep into the tourney chose one strong strategy out of a possible many.
Not sure which possible possible strategy you are talking about?
I'm talking about innovating and seeing something new--the especially exciting stuff--seeing something in the meta change.
we like to believe, or at least I like to believe that the top pros are always working some build order and play style out that is above and beyond, and that it's always possible a eureka moment happens and new units are being used to good effect.
on a separate note, it wasn't too long ago when players were trying to use colossus, and disruptors (some still do) in the MU. obviously they were succeeding enough. there are a lot of examples of builds like this that just fade out and get forgotten for us spectators. there were fast disruptor drops, and stuff even so far back as proxy voidrays. but we're probably just going to remember adepts and phoenixes in PvT for the moment.
I've got no issue with It personally, because it simply wins, and it's pretty simple that I like seeing how games are won in StarCraft.
you go to a game like DotA2 and a vast majority of people want to play carry, hit creeps, take gold for their items at all times when there's a limit to what you can do, and there is overall strategy/basic things you need to account for as a unit of 5. some of those frequent carry players feel entitled to playing what they've been imposing on others (snatching the role) and practicing as a result. if you are not familiar, almost half of any game's [serious] squad is composed of supporting roles, because things need to be done with less resources. with the selfishness, I'm beginning to think that this is the habit that a lot of gamers start with until at least they start losing a good amount of games to it. but this is a solo game where you take majority responsibility and there are only so many practical ways that you can win. you are seeing one of those ways right here.
I don't really understand complaints about the strat, and when the top protoss players move on from it (and they will), everybody will be copying their new thing as if it were their own.
I think even from IEM Katowice, aLive is playing so damn good and everybody sees it. But on the final match against herO he should probably change the entire aproach of the game - more Inno style, defensive, solid, less multitasking. This adept/phoenix ball of herO is unstopable for any other tactics I think and simple micro cannot break it.
Sad to see how fast a GSL winner can be replaced by a different toss so quickly, just because the Matchups are so poorly designed that skill becomes the least relevant factor. And by that I don't mean Stats and herO are not skilled.
On April 10 2017 05:52 beepbeeeeeeep wrote: what a sad state the sc2 community is in when the majority of the posts here are either people crying about protoss or sadness for alive. people just can't get over themselves and their protoss hate to congratulate herO on his first premier win since 2015. pretty sad
I mean regardless, watching adepts do well is just infuriating to watch. Especially if theres warp prisms involved. I know people made the comparison to massing marines and medivacs, but those units arent as polarizing as "protoss bullshit".
On April 10 2017 19:47 Veluvian wrote: I think even from IEM Katowice, aLive is playing so damn good and everybody sees it. But on the final match against herO he should probably change the entire aproach of the game - more Inno style, defensive, solid, less multitasking. This adept/phoenix ball of herO is unstopable for any other tactics I think and simple micro cannot break it.
But anyway, aLive made a huge jump this spring!
I could not agree more.
Often I watch aLive's stream and he has a very agressiv/multitasking style in all MU. His style is the opposite of Inno one. But in this serie vs HerO a more conservative/defensive play would have worked better.
If my memory serves me right, at the start of the LOTV Beta, already aLive was one of the best terran players in the world. I think his style fits perfectly with LOTV gameplay.
Sad to see him lose this final but HerO played well too. Especially sad to see him lose like this in a one sided game 6 while the serie was amazing until there.
EPT
Solar and 
herO, an incredibly in-form 
aLive and an SSL finals rematch between the ROOT Protoss and 
