EPTScarlett and MajOr qualify for Code S - Page 2
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
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Ve5pa
United Kingdom252 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On April 02 2017 22:37 DieuCure wrote: "Highest skilled era" "Foreigners are showing good results... Not let's not suggest they are getting better but instead claim that its the koreans that are getting worse.". | ||
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Xalorian
Canada433 Posts
On April 02 2017 22:37 DieuCure wrote: "Highest skilled era" Actually... yes? compare some old vods with some really recent one : players are way better than before. Most of today good foreigners could go back in time and rekt old school gsl winners, easily. The scene is smaller and maybe players could have improved even more, but still, highest skilled era for sure. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
On April 02 2017 23:16 Xalorian wrote: Actually... yes? The scene is smaller and maybe players could have improved even more, but still, highest skilled era for sure. Even the big Maru vs Jaedong FPV micro that was so insane 3½ years ago. When I recently rewatched it I thought it was fairly mediocre mciro by today's standard. His splits are much more rough than what you see from someon like byun. The whole theory of koreans getting worse is really just an excuse created by people who do not want foreigners to deliever results. And when they initially saw the foreigners do well in the first phase of blizzcon, they had to create this nonsensical theory. And that's the worst thing about Starcraft discussion. So many people have these idiological opinions on who is better based on beliefs. Not on what logic/data/detailed analysis suggests. Actually... yes? compare some old vods with some really recent one : players are way better than before The people you are responding to just like to meme. They do not like to actually analyze games, so you are talking to deaf ears. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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Amarillo Caballero
United States72 Posts
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On April 02 2017 23:22 Hider wrote: Even the big Maru vs Jaedong FPV micro that was so insane 3½ years ago. When I recently rewatched it I thought it was fairly mediocre mciro by today's standard. His splits are much more rough than what you see from someon like byun. The whole theory of koreans getting worse is really just an excuse created by people who do not want foreigners to deliever results. And when they initially saw the foreigners do well in the first phase of blizzcon, they had to create this nonsensical theory. And that's the worst thing about Starcraft discussion. So many people have these idiological opinions on who is better based on beliefs. Not on what logic/data/detailed analysis suggests. The people you are responding to just like to meme. They do not like to actually analyze games, so you are talking to deaf ears. Considering I've frequently talked to the person that wrote the article starting that debate for about 5 years, I can guarantee that you're wrong. Besides, I rounded up some numbers a while ago about that Byun vs Dark game on KSS that people called one of the best ever, and they didn't hold up to the Life vs Taeja game on the same map 2 years prior. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On April 02 2017 23:16 Xalorian wrote: Actually... yes? compare some old vods with some really recent one : players are way better than before. Most of today good foreigners could go back in time and rekt old school gsl winners, easily. The scene is smaller and maybe players could have improved even more, but still, highest skilled era for sure. It's arguable whether the very top players are better now or in 2013-2015. (imo they were slightly better back then) However the lower tier players (ro32 gsl) were much better back then, it's not even comparable. You see so many cringe-worthy mistakes in the early stages of GSL it's almost laughable. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Maybe they can deliver in the ro32 as well though :O | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On April 03 2017 00:00 Charoisaur wrote: It's arguable whether the very top players are better now or in 2013-2015. (imo they were slightly better back then) However the lower tier players (ro32 gsl) were much better back then, it's not even comparable. You see so many cringe-worthy mistakes in the early stages of GSL it's almost laughable. And that was with an additional 10-20 very good Koreans in WCS NA and EU. | ||
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DSK
England1110 Posts
Congrats Scarlett and Mr Ketchum. Perhaps we'll have three foreigners next season?. | ||
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Ignorant prodigy
United States385 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
>It's arguable whether the very top players are better now or in 2013-2015. (imo they were slightly better back then) I dont think so, 2013-2015 was really trash because of HoTS, 2016 was way more impressive than whole HoTS. But top 8 right now is godlike, you cant even compare Zest early 2016 and Stats right now, like you cant compare Cure early 2016 and Inno right now. edit : TY/Dark late game was unbelievable in 2016 so i dont know finally, but blizzcon lvl wasnt that high, violet true etc, and foreigners should be better than in 2016 i think | ||
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On April 03 2017 00:39 Olli wrote: INnoVation has never been better than in 2013. Can you point to a noticeable difference between back then and now? Like it's not even clearly defined if we are all talking about the same thing, the metagame is simply different so it's really hard to argue about strategy all that much. Mechanically it's probably about the same? In general i think that mechanically speaking the best players simply cannot really improve anymore. You only have so much apm/attention/mouse precision. The game itself shifts towards certain things, like when Byun almost never tried to split vs banelings in comparison to other player only splitting. But simply mechanically speaking you have to dedicate yourself fully to be at your max lvl and if you don't you simply "are worse". The difference might not be THAT big because every player has a minimum/average lvl which is fairly high, but in a game like starcraft where small things matter it still shows. So yeah all in all i do not think that if you send back the top players from now that they would dominate the year 2013 based on their current mechanics. The depth of the current player field is obviously lower. Foreigners still are better now simply because the motivation factor last year probably helped a ton. That's more or less how i see it, one can obviously expand on every statement a lot and go into more detail | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
On April 03 2017 00:52 The_Red_Viper wrote: Can you point to a noticeable difference between back then and now? Like it's not even clearly defined if we are all talking about the same thing, the metagame is simply different so it's really hard to argue about strategy all that much. Mechanically it's probably about the same? In general i think that mechanically speaking the best players simply cannot really improve anymore. You only have so much apm/attention/mouse precision. The game itself shifts towards certain things, like when Byun almost never tried to split vs banelings in comparison to other player only splitting. But simply mechanically speaking you have to dedicate yourself fully to be at your max lvl and if you don't you simply "are worse". The difference might not be THAT big because every player has a minimum/average lvl which is fairly high, but in a game like starcraft where small things matter it still shows. So yeah all in all i do not thing that if you send back the top players from now that they would dominate the year 2013 based on their current mechanics. The depth of the current player field is obviously lower. Foreigners still are better now simply because the motivation factor last year probably helped a ton. That's more or less how i see it, one can obviously expand on every statement a lot and go into more detail It's also a completely different game than before, so comparing it's a little bizarre. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Sad that we didnt see Life, it would hve been be a good thing to compare each lvl; a good base | ||
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