On April 06 2017 23:39 StraKo wrote:On April 06 2017 23:09 AnossSc2 wrote:On April 06 2017 21:31 Ransomstarcraft wrote:
Here's the biggest problem with this thread: overstatement.
SC2 has not lost "all its players", and the game hasn't been "ruined" by 12 workers. In fact, the 12 workers has taken much of the downtime out of a game designed to be multifaceted and fast-paced. Yes, in LOTV thusfar the emphasis has been more on macro and harass than on the opening paper/rock/scissors. But as far as I can tell the goal of the balance team is to have early, middle, and late game variety for all 3 races and in all 6 matchups. This community update is an example of that.
I do agree, however, that their progress toward that goal has been too slow and I would like a more aggressive approach. It seems to me if some fundamental design changes are made, two months is a reasonable time to let the meta adjust and see where the game sits.
In the meantime, in my opinion LOTV will be a better game if it's left at 12 workers. But in the meantime, the balance team must work on more variety in builds for each race. Zerg already has lots of variety, the other 2 races not so much. What I want is more action and community updates like this, not less.
If you agree the fact there is no more : Scissor/paper/rocs beginning. You should agree LOTV failed to have early, middle, and late game variety, cause we lost early agression stage. Now it's just mid and late game, mid game come at 5,30 min mark, late game unit can come at 8 min mark and 0 to 4 min are required to build...
I know Bw is an other game, but look Jaedong against Stork, it's Zealot against Zergling start for a while. On Wol/Hots we had this too. On Lotv it's not the case. So i shouldn't agree LOTV was successful on this. It's easy to access the Late game if you cut the early game. This is the best part of Broodwar, a game that clearly defines early game, and mid, and late. This was the best game on Wol/Hots, when game start with intense early game and goes to intense late game ( like Darkforce Vs Bratok one of my favorite EU game).
So if the balance team work on more variety build for each race, we should go back on 6 harvesters start.
i totally agree with you AnossSc2
LotV's economy didn't impove the gameplay at all.
- It reduced strategic options in the early game
- made harass even stronger because of reduced ressources per base and weaker macro mechanics
- overall much less recover potential from any kind of dmg
- trading units / playing aggressive macro style basically impossible, extremely hard to remax armies (especially slower races like mech terran suffer from this)
- new players get completely overwhelmed and can't get into the game
- scouting timings and time to react is much shorter ---> once again creating unnecessary frustration, especially for beginners
....
etc.
LotV is extremely fragile because of the very weak, vulnerable economy and overpowered harass units like raven auto turrets, adepts, T1 overlord drops, etc...
This makes macro games a very punishing and frustrating experience for newbies and for pro's. It doesn't really matter on which skill level you play.
Everything can end the game instantly at any time.
LotV is just too much. My mainbase is running out of minerals wheni start to build my 3rd @standard timing. That's just not right. This is not the Star Craft anymore that i used to love.
EPT
