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insitelol
845 Posts
-> make light units op (so that protoss can't handle them w/o splash) -> introduce colossi -> colossi are boring as fuck -> nerf colossi to the ground (introduce gimick aoe unit instead that noone uses anyway) -> overbuff light units (hydra) (?????????????????) so they melt everything -> buff colossi Another indication of DK's clear master plan. I have no doubt it was all planned from the start. | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2665 Posts
On November 30 2016 12:31 DomeGetta wrote: This is why you don't see the Kor's doing mech in tvz Korean players where the ones that created the mech meta in HotS, they where consistent with it playing pretty commonly and some players where even know mech players, like Flash, Gumiho, Bbyong, ForGG, etc. Saying that mech doesn't benefits from multitask and micro is the most stupid argument I've seen that somehow gets thrown around like its an absolute truth, see a ForGG game and tell me anybody can pull the same moves as the master of hellions did, its not as easy as it seems | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 01 2016 00:17 Lexender wrote: Korean players where the ones that created the mech meta in HotS, they where consistent with it playing pretty commonly and some players where even know mech players, like Flash, Gumiho, Bbyong, ForGG, etc. Saying that mech doesn't benefits from multitask and micro is the most stupid argument I've seen that somehow gets thrown around like its an absolute truth, see a ForGG game and tell me anybody can pull the same moves as the master of hellions did, its not as easy as it seems Or, you can watch FlaSh turtle with a million Turrets and tanks and fall asleep, or watch horrors like ByuL's final engagement against INnoVation on Coda, to understand why people don't want mech to come back. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 01 2016 01:20 EatingBomber wrote: Or, you can watch FlaSh turtle with a million Turrets and tanks and fall asleep, or watch horrors like ByuL's final engagement against INnoVation on Coda, to understand why people don't want mech to come back. If the constant "action" of bio was what the RTS community wanted in SC2 for every game,SC2 would not be in the state that it is and BW would have been dead a long time ago. If there's one thing we can put to bad is the idea that bio is more exciting then mech for the casual viewer. We have the numbers and they tell a different story. Finally Blizz realized this through the massive exodus that happened with the promotion of bio only games. Face it, bio lovers are in a huge minority  | ||
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Comedy
489 Posts
On December 01 2016 01:35 Sapphire.lux wrote: If the constant "action" of bio was what the RTS community wanted in SC2 for every game,SC2 would not be in the state that it is and BW would have been dead a long time ago. If there's one thing we can put to bad is the idea that bio is more exciting then mech for the casual viewer. We have the numbers and they tell a different story. Finally Blizz realized this through the massive exodus that happened with the promotion of bio only games. Face it, bio lovers are in a huge minority You are absolutely wrong. The most epic game SC2 have ever produced has always been muta ling bane vs bio. While there are nice mech games out there, such as forgg vs life, it is the exception. Almost all mech games towards the end of hots, and especially in the EU scene, were complete abuse of cost efficient units like the raven/bc. pdd spam + mass turtle. The cyclone style which was rising to popularity right before this patch, was also pure cancer. The Terran player had the rax for vision, and as long as they baby sitted the cyclones they could just scan + kill units indefinitely as they move commanded back. I admit that I am a zerg player, I can tell you, by playing 100's of games, that this process was never any 'fun' to me. Regardless of wether or not I could win games against it (I could and did), it just felt truely retarded, and mech has always felt that way when playing against it. Action packed mech games, are a nice theory, but not reality. If you played high level Hots on EU ladder and ran into happy a million times who just spammed turrets, camped, and micro'ed his energy units till zerg was out of money, you'd agree. You have to remember these games, there were loads of them at the end of hots. I highly doubt bio lovers are in the minority, since every zerg player out there by definition enjoys bio more, since mech units are just completly not fun to play against. On top of that I bet anyone that doesn't actually play the game much prefers bio, when there are 3-4 things happening at the same time it really pushes the most out of players. That is more fun to watch than 100 turrets, tanks, vikings, ravens, all bunched up waiting for the other race to 'charge' in. Lol I imagine the only people who prefer mech are diamond/low master terrans with little apm who want an easy time macro'ing/slow game. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 01 2016 01:42 Comedy wrote: You are absolutely wrong. The most epic game SC2 have ever produced has always been muta ling bane vs bio. While there are nice mech games out there, such as forgg vs life, it is the exception. Almost all mech games towards the end of hots, and especially in the EU scene, were complete abuse of cost efficient units like the raven/bc. pdd spam + mass turtle. Action packed mech games, are a nice theory, but not reality. If you played high level Hots on EU ladder and ran into happy a million times who just spammed turrets, camped, and micro'ed his energy units till zerg was out of money, you'd agree. You have to remember these games, there were loads of them at the end of hots. The games you talk about were hated by everyone, including mech players. That was mass air, mass air casters at that that created that horror, not mech. Blizz made mech rubbish that the only thing it was decent at was to ease an air transition. The "good" mech games are the ones where you have actual mech wining or loosing the game without the turtle to mass air. Tank hellion viking has always created cool games, be it vs bio, roach hydra, etc. Air armies just suck in SC2, be they Ravens or BL-Inf or Tempests. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On November 30 2016 04:49 Existor wrote: Mech is fine. * Want to harass with mobile units? Banshees, ravens, hellions. * Need anti-ground-light? Hellbats vs ling runby, and hellions to chase and kite. Widow mines also. * Need soft-anti-air with aoe damage? Liberators. Otherwise make thors, seeker missiles and battlecruisers. * Need to protect territories? Siege tanks, hellbats, widow mines, liberator zones, cruisers can warp-in to defend (last one will rarely occur but it's possible) * Need anti-mech? Ground vikings, siege tanks, thors, cyclones. * Need mobile anti-armored? Cyclones, siege tanks. * Need anti air-armored? Vikings, 2nd Thor mode. * Need burst aoe-damage that only mutas can escape? Seeker missiles that can chase up for 19 range. * Need to snipe core targets? Yamato cannons, vikings / 250mm thors / banshees * Need anti-ultralisk as mech? Siege tanks, banshees, liberation zones, thors, yamato cannons, mules (they fk ultralisk pathing late game), Raven turrets also breaking ultralisk pathing I'm not sure it's all that useful to think up unit counters in a vacuum, there's also the question of timings and cost. | ||
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EatingBomber
1017 Posts
On December 01 2016 01:35 Sapphire.lux wrote: If the constant "action" of bio was what the RTS community wanted in SC2 for every game,SC2 would not be in the state that it is and BW would have been dead a long time ago. If there's one thing we can put to bad is the idea that bio is more exciting then mech for the casual viewer. We have the numbers and they tell a different story. Finally Blizz realized this through the massive exodus that happened with the promotion of bio only games. Face it, bio lovers are in a huge minority Nonsense. SC2 declined for a variety of reasons besides the fact that Terran played mostly bio, which is minuscule(if it even is a factor, which iT isn't )compared to the much larger, external factors. Furthermore, to suggest that mech in SC2 is even comparable to BW's mech is laughable. SC2's mech is one of the most boring, cancerous, and least taxing play style to both watch, and play against. Fortunately, Zerg and Protoss have been given various tools to kill the tumour before it grows. Unfortunately, the mirror will not be spared. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20752357659 Relevant balance change is that Siege Tank's Siege Damage vs non-armored now receives +4 (10%) from the Vehicle Weapon upgrade, up from +3. This aligns it with the general +10% rule for attack upgrades with other units. I'm not sure if the bonus damage vs armor attack upgrades got upped from +2 to +3 to also align with the +10% rule. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18051 Posts
On December 01 2016 01:35 Sapphire.lux wrote: If the constant "action" of bio was what the RTS community wanted in SC2 for every game,SC2 would not be in the state that it is and BW would have been dead a long time ago. If there's one thing we can put to bad is the idea that bio is more exciting then mech for the casual viewer. We have the numbers and they tell a different story. Finally Blizz realized this through the massive exodus that happened with the promotion of bio only games. Face it, bio lovers are in a huge minority i posted the #s. massive exodus LOL. that is great emo hyperbole. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/516753-firecakes-opinion-on-the-decline-of-starcraft-2?page=16#319 every game declines as it ages. the sea level of the entire RTS ocean is lowering. Blizzard RTSs including SC2 are the only boats able to float as the sea level plummets and the ice age is imminent. Considering how bad RTS is doing and the alternatives that have usurped the general player from their giant desktop PCs .. Blizzard has retained its customers better than any other RTS developer. those are the #s that keep the full context of the marketplace and the consumers expanding base of choices in mind. The #s indicate Blizzard is doing a great job with SC2 and Blizzard is the best RTS game maker in the world. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
Don't get me wrong, I understand Terran lack diversity and people get tired of MMMM all day, but making the worst style in the game viable when the game is already declining isn't the best thing to do at all. If you think viewership is low now, wait until we have 30 minute long mech TvT and cancer style mech ZvT where the whole map get's taken and Zerg can't attack into the tank lines and Terran can't unsiege the tank lines. Once tank mech into mass Ravens crept it's way into the master league level I straight up left the game for HOTS. It's not fun to play against, it's not fun to watch, it's hardly even fun to win when the games are 30 + minutes of chasing a flock of super strong energy units and trying to Nydus into small pockets of non tank lines. Personally, I'm hoping for bio mech to become the new metagame. The Golden Age of Zerg vs Terran wasn't watching ForGG whip out the ever so random mech game at a high level, not by a long shot. It was watching Ling/Bane/Mutalisk vs Bio/Tank. | ||
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MiCroLiFe
Norway275 Posts
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bObA
France300 Posts
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WeddingEpisode
United States356 Posts
be "BioMech". Make the reactor quadruple production after a certain upgrade.. No race squeaks by like Terran does anyways, solely relying on the player's super reflexes for kiting like crazy. | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 02 2016 03:40 Ganseng wrote: looks like fake actually It's not fake. Blizzard devs already confirmed that it was posted early and it is not a finalized list of changes. | ||
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p68
100 Posts
If Protoss is struggling vs light, there are so many possibilities regarding how this may be addressed! | ||
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p68
100 Posts
On December 01 2016 23:15 WeddingEpisode wrote: Blizzard shouldn't be designing balance around a "Mech" schematic at all anyways, a Terran army should be "BioMech". Make the reactor quadruple production after a certain upgrade.. No race squeaks by like Terran does anyways, solely relying on the player's super reflexes for kiting like crazy. If Terran ground units had shared upgrades instead of factory sharing with starport, perhaps. Even though each race has five upgrades, the way Terran upgrades are distributed does not encourage biomech past early game. | ||
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