EPTBlame the state of the game on blizzard, they were too slow and too proud to acknowledge their mistakes and fix things in time, period.
FireCake's opinion on the decline of StarCraft 2 - Page 16
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Espartaquen
88 Posts
Blame the state of the game on blizzard, they were too slow and too proud to acknowledge their mistakes and fix things in time, period. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:07 Espartaquen wrote: This "daed gaem destroyed starcraft" meme is just a bunch of nonsense. Nobody outside Team Liquid and maybe Bnet and reddit knows about this joke. It is not one of the factors that drove sc2 popularity backwards. I feel sorry for those that find themselves offended by this. Blame the state of the game on blizzard, they were too slow and too proud to acknowledge their mistakes and fix things in time, period. Well that is certainly not true, I've seen lots of people who don't follow SC2 repeat it or say they're not interested in StarCraft because everyone calls it dead. Sure it is not the sole contributing factor, but it's not the case that outside of TL or SCreddit everyone ignores it. | ||
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Espartaquen
88 Posts
Well that is certainly not true, I've seen lots of people who don't follow SC2 repeat it or say they're not interested in StarCraft because everyone calls it dead. Sure it is not the sole contributing factor, but it's not the case that nobody outside of TL or SCreddit ignores it. Thing is, it´s an effect, not a cause. Nobody would be calling the game "dead" if people were actually playing the game. Thing is, the market has spoken, people don´t like playing starcraft anymore (there will always be a few hardcore users but in the grand scheme of things) and it´s because of blizzard´s fault. If you want the meme to go away then you should direct your frustration towards the problem, not to a bunch of trolls on the internet. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:07 Espartaquen wrote: This "daed gaem destroyed starcraft" meme is just a bunch of nonsense. Nobody outside Team Liquid and maybe Bnet and reddit knows about this joke. It is not one of the factors that drove sc2 popularity backwards. I feel sorry for those that find themselves offended by this. Blame the state of the game on blizzard, they were too slow and too proud to acknowledge their mistakes and fix things in time, period. What? You listed three biggest community places for the game that have this plague of this bullshit "joke" and say that it barely affected anyone? So many people picked that up. And what Blizzard did wrong in your opinion? Brood Lord/Infestor or Swarm Host? Then why people state 2015 as the best year of SC2? People move away from the game mainly because it's 1v1 and is not very social. Issues on Blizzard's part come after that. Do you think that sudden drop of 1v1 players at LotV release was because of some problem with the game? Maybe it got some people tired of the changes and overall different pace of the game, but mainly it's because they introduced co-op and many casuals went to play the part of StarCraft II that is directed at casuals. I wish we had co-op stats though. I wouldn't mind them toning down burst dps in the game and other stuff but the fact is that gameplay issues in 1v1 are not the main reason why SC2 got less popular. It got less popular because it's hard for a 1v1 game nowadays to get more people to play it with no hype train with it. And the hype train it seems came to a full stop with KeSPA dropping everything SC2-related. Game is also carried a lot by marketable people supporting it. I don't think BW would be still that popular in Korea if their big names didn't play anymore. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
On November 29 2016 23:58 Ansibled wrote: but as overwatch proves, there are other factors. What is their player base and their viewerbase? Care to elaborate because I'm interested? :p | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:23 Incognoto wrote: What is their player base and their viewerbase? Care to elaborate because I'm interested? :p Well in August Overwatch had something like 15 million sales and 3.1 million 'esports hours' watched on Twitch. SC2 had 2.5m in August. Unfortunately there isn't anything more recent, but the tournaments certainly don't do as well as you would expect given the popularity of the game. For example the OGN APEX tournament casted by Montecristo/DoA lost out to very bad (literally no name) LoL teams playing in KeSPA cup casted by LS and Rapid on SPOTV, and despite the complaints about SPOTV and the casters from a lot of LoL fans and the huge following Monte/DoA/OGN have. ![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/syorx/2eadf88f28.png) https://newzoo.com/insights/rankings/top-games-twitch/ I expect Overwatch will pick up a bit with the Blizzard league thing, but it'll be interesting to see how it does. This is also a pretty good indication of how much SC2 streaming relies on tournaments ignoring DotA because TI most other games have a much more casual viewership whereas StarCraft is focused on tournaments, or rather the lack of individual SC2 streams. I think that picked up a bit lately though. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
Maybe that is because it's an FPS and there isn't a lot to pick up Or perhaps game personalities haven't been developed yet. I like trump and savjz from hearthstone, I like so many different progamers from SC2, voyboy from lol, etc. perhaps that is also a factor food for thought though, thanks for sharing | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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-IAEVAI-KolosS
Canada60 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:52 Nerchio wrote: Overwatch is a horrible game to watch, it's pretty much impossible to spectate it and I don't envy casters that have to cover that game(except the fact that they probably get $$$ for it). I also tried playing it on free weekends twice already and unless you have friends playing with you it's woeful at best. Exactly my thoughts and experience on it too. | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3567 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:52 Nerchio wrote: Overwatch is a horrible game to watch, it's pretty much impossible to spectate it and I don't envy casters that have to cover that game(except the fact that they probably get $$$ for it). I also tried playing it on free weekends twice already and unless you have friends playing with you it's woeful at best. I agree but at the same time being able to play with friends is also what makes a game popular, esp. for the younger player who have more free time and the same/very similar schedule | ||
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SinO[Ob]
France898 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:52 Nerchio wrote: Overwatch is a horrible game to watch, it's pretty much impossible to spectate it and I don't envy casters that have to cover that game(except the fact that they probably get $$$ for it). I also tried playing it on free weekends twice already and unless you have friends playing with you it's woeful at best. I love OW but youre right. First, dont play alone its useless and waaaay less fun. Second I just love playing it, not watching it. This just too messy, I really hope they make something to adjust camera positionning, and ESPECIALLY fix those damn color for obs. Red and blue everywhere sometime you will have hard time telling which team you are watching. | ||
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
On November 30 2016 01:04 WGT-Baal wrote: I agree but at the same time being able to play with friends is also what makes a game popular, esp. for the younger player who have more free time and the same/very similar schedule Yes but you can play other games with your friends too  | ||
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KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
On November 30 2016 00:07 Espartaquen wrote: This "daed gaem destroyed starcraft" meme is just a bunch of nonsense. Nobody outside Team Liquid and maybe Bnet and reddit knows about this joke. It is not one of the factors that drove sc2 popularity backwards. I feel sorry for those that find themselves offended by this. Blame the state of the game on blizzard, they were too slow and too proud to acknowledge their mistakes and fix things in time, period. 1) Nobody is saying it destroyed StarCraft. 2) Check out every StarCraft-related thread in /r/games and similar communities, it will have a huge discussion about how dead the game is. 3) I think this thread established well enough that there's not one single entitity to blame, but multiple. Blizzard is a part of it. Stating that other things didn't help doesn't change that. On November 30 2016 00:16 Espartaquen wrote: Thing is, it´s an effect, not a cause. Nobody would be calling the game "dead" if people were actually playing the game. Thing is, the market has spoken, people don´t like playing starcraft anymore (there will always be a few hardcore users but in the grand scheme of things) and it´s because of blizzard´s fault. If you want the meme to go away then you should direct your frustration towards the problem, not to a bunch of trolls on the internet. This is where you're jumping the gun too quickly imho. People want to playStarCraft. In fact, new players come into the game every day. It's just that there are many things that come into play that make them go away again. We're also not talking just about a bunch of trolls on the internet. "StarCraft II is dead" is an opinion many people have at this point. | ||
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BaronVonOwn
299 Posts
On November 29 2016 19:09 BakedButters wrote: The game plays on the bleeding edge of human reaction. A simple mistake can cause you the game due to stupid amounts of damage. I've been masters many times, and the game feels too punishing on little mistakes. Even at the highest level of play, at the highest reaction rate and mechanical skill, I see top pros making a game-ending mistake all time. I was watching Innovation stream a week ago(?), who is ranked 1 on Korean ladder, and was amazed at his mechanical skill. He plays vs. Z, builds up a little marine mine comp to harass,etc but takes a look away for a millisecond and his main force dies to a zerg/bane. He quits the game. It ended less than 8 min. A simple game-ending mistake should be not be allowed to happen, and it happens consistently at top level. But since the game plays on the bleeding edge of human reaction, where the game can be decided by looking away for a millisecond, or by one big fight that happens and ends all too quickly, it's frustrating. Yes, this is the biggest problem in my opinion. People are trying to dodge this issue by saying League of Legends or Counter-Strike, Quake etc. are fast-paced. Here's what they don't understand. First of all other games are much more forgiving. In League of Legends you have a lot of built-in safeguards (towers). In League and most shooters, you get to respawn and start again. In Hearthstone you almost never lose within the first 5 turns. The other huge difference is that in Starcraft you need to be giving 100% effort 100% of the time. In other games there's a lot of downtime. League, Overwatch and Counter-Strike have death cams where you basically get to do nothing and recuperate. Hearthstone is turn-based and so doesn't exact the same toll as Starcraft. In Starcraft the stress just keeps building until someone loses. Any little mistake can cost you the game. In League you can make some really stupid move, tower dive or whatever and the game isn't over. Counter-Strike, sure try to knife the AWPer, you've got 29 other rounds to make it up. In Starcraft bad decisions tend to get brutally punished. This dynamic was greatly inflated by the likes of widow mines, oracles, boost medivacs, liberators etc. Cheesy units that can end the game in a brutal, frustrating fashion. HOTS and LOTV were the exact opposite of what SC2 needed. WoL wasn't really that bad if you look at it purely from this perspective. But it wasn't good enough either. | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
I can't wait for the improvements for the in-game tournaments that they announced. What if a regular SC2 ladder match was a BO3? When I think of it, it wouldn't even take much longer than regular League or CS match | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
Thats like saying Doctors kill someone everytime they pronounce a time of death. "Time of death: 8:30 PM" OMG THE DOCTOR KILLED HIM AT 8:30!!! Dumb. User was warned for this post | ||
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aQuaSC
717 Posts
On November 30 2016 02:19 MaestroSC wrote: Its so ridiculous to insinuate that "people calling the game dead are what killed it" What is already dead...cannot be killed. It was dead/dying long before anyone ever said "dead game". Thats WHY PEOPLE SAID IT WAS A DEAD GAME. Thats like saying Doctors kill someone everytime they pronounce a time of death. "Time of death: 8:30 PM" OMG THE DOCTOR KILLED HIM AT 8:30!!! Dumb. lol | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On November 30 2016 02:19 MaestroSC wrote: Its so ridiculous to insinuate that "people calling the game dead are what killed it" What is already dead...cannot be killed. It was dead/dying long before anyone ever said "dead game". Thats WHY PEOPLE SAID IT WAS A DEAD GAME. Thats like saying Doctors kill someone everytime they pronounce a time of death. "Time of death: 8:30 PM" OMG THE DOCTOR KILLED HIM AT 8:30!!! Dumb. Well before you want to call people dumb it's worth considering that the game is in fact not dead. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17939 Posts
On November 30 2016 02:22 Ansibled wrote: Well before you want to call people dumb it's worth considering that the game is in fact not dead. i'd prefer people stick to the facts rather than firing off incorrect descriptions designed to elicit an emotional response. the level of activity around SC2 in late 2016 is substantially lower than the level of community activity around SC2 in 2011. And its been a slow and steady decline. i'm still having fun with the game. the latest IEM qualifiers were fascinating to watch despite the hysterical screams of certain streamers. i'm impressed with how well Blizzard has kept the SC2 playerbase going considering that RTS as a genre is in steep decline. i'm also impressed ATVI/Blizz was able to market LotV to hit the million mark as fast as HotS despite over all excitement and hype around the game being substantially lower in late 2015 as compared to March 2013. Here is SC2 google trends the past 5 years and the past 2 years. SC2 is slowly declining. its rate of decline is decreasing. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TYwbEcM.jpg) i highly suspect TL.Net management has the exact same description for its SC2 membership base and its SC2 members' aggregate activity levels. Its slowly declining and has been for 5 years. And the rate of decline is decreasing. | ||
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NickHotS
United States105 Posts
Unfortunately, people watch what they play, so the viewership isn't #1. But for the numbers that play StarCraft/StarCraft 2, they have amazing viewerships. | ||
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