EPTCommunity Feedback Update - November 10 - Page 5
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washikie
United States752 Posts
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On November 11 2016 15:10 insitelol wrote: Like i ***ing hate this. Is that a 'new' standard to make intestines-like maps? So you focus more on finding your way out of the maze instead of actually playing the game. 3 heavy rains in the pool. AWESOME. Can you please leave at least 3 standard maps in the pool? Why are you so obsessed with rewamping the pool every ***ing half a year. Game is 6 years old already. There were maps that had proven themselves (like KSS, frost, coda, overgrowth, whirlwind and arguably some others) to be very good and balanced maps. But for some unknown reason people are being afraid to play on 'old' maps. It is almost considered blasphemy. While none of the shit maps DK 'experimented' with (like dash and terminal, dasan and many others) never delivered 'fun' games they were supposed to and were forgotten by everyone. Why keep doing this? FFS. It's posts like this that remind me why blizzard's task is so large. The reason they changed to these maps in the first place was because of community outcry that we would have to play maps we had already played to death back in hots and earlier seasons of lotv. Maps are a key factor in adding variety and fun to sc2. I agree that realy wild maps can be unhealthy for the game. For instance giving a player multiple ramps, early gold bases, hyper abusable terrain can make some maps feal very unfair and in the past has broken the game. Like when the map pool was super favorable for 2 base blink allins. With that being said no variety also sucks. Maps do a lot to set the meta game so the meta tends to get very very stale if we don't have new and interesting maps added in and old ones taken out. Plus these maps will take the game in a direction we have not seen much of from lotv yet. So far most bugs to maps have been very simplistic and fairly open. This contributes to Terran having such a hard time in the late game vs Zerg. The more constricted a map the more Terran is able to play the late game. These kind of maps might also push lurkers back into the zvp meta. Right now ravager bane is the norm but since this is a very open space dependent comp it may see less play on constricted maps. I'm not sure these maps will be fair, but they at least will lead to late game scenarios and offer players more interesting games in the late game. Overall I'm realy excited. | ||
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MaxTa
61 Posts
-Cyclone: attack speed reduced to 0.3 (instead of 0.1) -Siege Tank: remove tankivac and increase dps -Reaper: grenades no longer deal damage ZERG -Lurker: 8 range -Nydus: no longer invulnerable, lower cost to 100/50, increase hp to 250 PROTOSS -Adept: Increase shade cooldown to 22s (instead of 11s) -Sentry: lower cost to 50/75 | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On November 14 2016 03:17 KT_Elwood wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 12 2016 08:33 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think you are wrong. The best micro scenarios are low unit count scenarios. Why? Because the dps isn't really the problem, the dps/area is the real one (there are units which have too much dps like oracles, but in general it's not a problem). Pathing is the issue which makes "deathballs" in sc2 that boring to watch, the bigger the armies get the worse the interactions are. Ofc you could talk about the whole dmg system, which promotes hard counters and yeah changing that would already be a good first step but pathing (imo) is the bigger factor here I think the Deathblob was never really fun. Especially in TvP. LotV enables more fights before the 200/200, wich is nice. But splitting armies has become less viable, also "saving" an army or retreating has become less of a thing (from my point of view). Once units engange you almost have to fight, save from "high mobility units" like muta,Blink stalker , Dropships, or lings. HaSuObs used stray-Templars to flank terran units, Terran triggered " Units Over Drones" by moving out and moving back. Now Zerg has to just check the clock and decide "thats no strong timing = fake". For Terran there is still micro potential. Until it gets to the point were you play bandaid vs bandaid, aka 8 armor ultra vs liberator (A move vs autoattack zzzZZZzz) For Protoss some, for zerg almost none. Making more units more quickly (because they trade okay) is more important than army control. Dark uses 1 army control group and ling bane until ultra vs byun. Like a good Diamond player could do. Yes Starcraft was a numbers game, but control, timing, coordination,location all got less important when its the "number of units present" that dominates the engagement. 20 adepts vs 30 marines = dead marines. 20 Zealots ? if terran kites, its a fight, on both parts there is no viable micro for the protoss, besides shade following retreating marines. if there was a templar with the zealots, it's a whole diffrent game. TvZ is by far the best MU for viewers. Terran micro makes it nailbiting if there are "SOOOOOO MANY BANELINGS" ZvP got super boring with immortal sentry attack on 3rd before Broodlord infestor can come out. PvP has gone from "20 min no rush" to "Please god, no more disruptor Tennis" ZvZ is the least liked MU for viewers (almost no micro/Strat, randomness and plain macro) Conclusion: Make Z and P have to micro. Make splitting units necessary. Dont flat out buff things because terran players can outmicro them (Ultra, now baneling). So obvious what race you play. Terran is the most broken race right now. TvT is a 1 hour snorefest | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
ZvP got super boring with immortal sentry attack Timings and optimization have always been a huge part of PvZ | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
On November 14 2016 03:17 KT_Elwood wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 12 2016 08:33 The_Red_Viper wrote: I think you are wrong. The best micro scenarios are low unit count scenarios. Why? Because the dps isn't really the problem, the dps/area is the real one (there are units which have too much dps like oracles, but in general it's not a problem). Pathing is the issue which makes "deathballs" in sc2 that boring to watch, the bigger the armies get the worse the interactions are. Ofc you could talk about the whole dmg system, which promotes hard counters and yeah changing that would already be a good first step but pathing (imo) is the bigger factor here I think the Deathblob was never really fun. Especially in TvP. LotV enables more fights before the 200/200, wich is nice. But splitting armies has become less viable, also "saving" an army or retreating has become less of a thing (from my point of view). Once units engange you almost have to fight, save from "high mobility units" like muta,Blink stalker , Dropships, or lings. HaSuObs used stray-Templars to flank terran units, Terran triggered " Units Over Drones" by moving out and moving back. Now Zerg has to just check the clock and decide "thats no strong timing = fake". For Terran there is still micro potential. Until it gets to the point were you play bandaid vs bandaid, aka 8 armor ultra vs liberator (A move vs autoattack zzzZZZzz) For Protoss some, for zerg almost none. Making more units more quickly (because they trade okay) is more important than army control. Dark uses 1 army control group and ling bane until ultra vs byun. Like a good Diamond player could do. Yes Starcraft was a numbers game, but control, timing, coordination,location all got less important when its the "number of units present" that dominates the engagement. 20 adepts vs 30 marines = dead marines. 20 Zealots ? if terran kites, its a fight, on both parts there is no viable micro for the protoss, besides shade following retreating marines. if there was a templar with the zealots, it's a whole diffrent game. TvZ is by far the best MU for viewers. Terran micro makes it nailbiting if there are "SOOOOOO MANY BANELINGS" ZvP got super boring with immortal sentry attack on 3rd before Broodlord infestor can come out. PvP has gone from "20 min no rush" to "Please god, no more disruptor Tennis" ZvZ is the least liked MU for viewers (almost no micro/Strat, randomness and plain macro) Conclusion: Make Z and P have to micro. Make splitting units necessary. Dont flat out buff things because terran players can outmicro them (Ultra, now baneling). Make Z or P have to micro...I would agree with this if Zerg units were made strong and cost effective as Terran or Toss units. In other scenario its ballshit. I think increasing speed and range of Hydralisk is Blizzards idea to give Zerg unit, which can give value with micro potential. I wouldnt agree more with that, as i always felt the lack of micro rewarding units in Zerg arsenal. Bu your proposal of - forcing Zerg or Toss to split suggests giving Terran some mobile splash damage. In the scenario of Terran having the most cost efficient comp in the game which is bio. Zerg was designed as a race which basics is macro and spamming swarm of units- weaker, worse than Toss or Terran but the power of Zerg was in numbers. Nowadays with 25% nerf of macro mechanics Zerg has no midgame because of that. Thats why we are forced to turtle till lategame to acces really strong units which can compete with Terran. Every midgame composition vs Terran is ballshit as Muta/Bling is hard countered EZ in LOTV and the only strong thing that we had-macro/eco- is nerfed to the ground. | ||
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On November 14 2016 05:53 parkufarku wrote: So obvious what race you play. Terran is the most broken race right now. TvT is a 1 hour snorefest Uhh no it isn't... Have you watched SC2 recently or are you just parroting the old stereotype from previous expansions? | ||
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
On November 14 2016 08:24 Skyro wrote: It always seemed ridiculous to me how Zealots are Protoss' first army unit and yet they are basically never made in the early game. It is part of the reason why Protoss defense is so terrible early game (the other being warp gate research time)... look at how effective all the proxy cheese is in PvT in the balance map tourney. New Zealot speed buff from charge should've been a buff to their base speed to 3.5. People have historically been scared of zealot proxies but i think they should be - marines & lings are significant early game threats | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On November 14 2016 06:33 Cyro wrote: Timings and optimization have always been a huge part of PvZ Still are. ZvP is still defend the protons timing, perform timing of your own. Very rarely do you progress to the late game. Someone always gains enough of an advantage that they continue to push until they win. | ||
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KT_Elwood
696 Posts
Give. Zerg. Units. That. Suck. without. 200. Apm. | ||
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