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TLDR: remove anti ground from cyclone, but make its anti air attack 20 dmg with enough range that air siege units cant chip away at it like broods, so give it 11 range (one more range so broodlings dont block it)
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KtzygGu.jpg)
In the latest balance update from blizzard they are increasing tempest range from 6 to 8 arbitrarily as if they did not receive any feedback showing that mech is not playable even if tempests have only 6 range
Link to latest feedback as of d/m/y 6.11.16
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20749797803?page=1
Mech anti air was alledgledly to be adressed as it is the only gamebreaking issue should mech be made viable, as mech has no qualms with ground and any buffs to the tank were literal compensation for the tankivac removal NOT a buff to mech.
Link to david kim saying that mech AA is to be reworked
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20749787793
Mech never wanted stronger siege tanks, siege tanks were fine the problem is when the opponnent simply makes air units and mech has no answer! the reason tanks get buffed is because the tankivac option is removed heavily weakening terran against ravager rushes, the disruptor and removing all of the mobility of the unit
Citation from HTOMARIO
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/19288409100
+ Show Spoiler +Tl:DR The only way I can see mech working on LOTV is to introduce the goliath (which also might make the cyclone more viable) or tune the thor to act more like one. Otherwise it would require too many balance changes to make mech work in lotv. No changes that I can really come up with fixes the easy. The only one I could remotely see working is a cost reduction across the board in terms of gas for all terran factory units.
Citation from vVvRuFF
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/sc2/topic/20743035633
+ Show Spoiler +Cyclone - Wow a unit that has the potential to drop high hp heavy armored units pretty quickly. To bad every time I try to lock on units they all die because thier range is complete crap for locking on. Literally they have to get into immortal shooting range, broodlord range, carrier range, tempest range, in order to lock. By that time thier all dead. I'd like to see at least a +1, +2 range increase off fusion core tech or something for the late game.
Citation from VTavilo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/502334-avilo-sc2-mech-feedback-analysis-for-blizzsc2
+ Show Spoiler +ISSUE FOR ENTIRE LOTV: AIR UNITS ALL TOO STRONG FOR 3 RACES Along these same lines...to re-iterate this thread i made a few weeks ago: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/496744-discussion-air-units-too-powerful-in-lotvI truly believe air units need to be toned down for all 3 races so that games will trend towards action and trading of units rather than sitting back and massing an air deathball. Also ground anti-air should be toned up. Tempest need a supply increase to 6 to dissuade simply massing them late game with high templar vs all races. Ravens were already gutted. Carriers need the release interceptor ability gone, they are already too strong when massed. Liberators too strong when massed - though Terran being viable at all in LOTV currently resides on the liberator's back. BCS suffer the same issue as carriers - useless in low number, too strong when you have 10+. Vipers need a hard nerf - para bomb needs to go. Other abilities toned down in some way, energy costs maybe don't know. Hydralisks need to be stronger versus air units. They suck when air is amassed. Interestingly enough, Protoss ground anti-air is already pretty good with archon splash, stalker blink, and of course the ground AOE parasitic bomb known as psi storm
you cant just have mech be bad but practise it, then have it be good overnight with massive siege tank buffs and not see a giant leap in success for mech players, thats to be expected.
So my suggestion is to remove the cyclones anti ground attack, and make it an anti air unit only but increase its range to 16, i would make the range 11 but the newly conceived tempest ability means that the protoss can chip away at you forever from afar with impunity now, and this has deep unsolvable ramifications
you could ofcourse remove the tempest ability, revert tempests to hots and just keep the supply at 6, this way you could just make the cyclone range 11 and the game would be far healthier.
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Seems like a good idea. Or extend the current distance it requires to get a lockon which is now 7, if that were 8 or 9 it would make a difference.
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Overlaps with the thor. And the viking for that matter.
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responding to the thread title "Mech anti air not being adressed?"
during DKs "analyst couch" interview at BlizzCon he stated the Cyclone might need an anti-air buff. At this early testing stage i'm happy with Blizzard just tweaking the Cyclone rather than doing another overhaul.
i'm all for strategic diversity. I don't want Terran to be able to play all games by just building units out of factories. All races should have certain tech paths with the potential to force Terran out of a wholesale Mech composition.
so for me as a Terran player I want to be able to get a higher rank by having a diversity of compositions, tech paths, and build orders at my disposal. 1 of those many would be a primarily factory centric unit composition and armory tech path. If I only know Factory based builds and nothing else my ranking should suffer for it.
This is coming from a C&C player who loves the sight of 34857847 Tanks. I want Mech to be the right move in somewhere between 20% to 70% of my games. I don't want Mech to be some all encompassing final answer in every game i play.
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DK said they don't want to have a mech "marine" in the cyclone. Which is completely idiotic because what mech lacks is a versatile footman.
Mech has very specialised units that are very expansive, which is fine and all, but it means moving out is extremely difficult because your composition can be caught off guard by the slightest transition in the ennemy's composition.
Mech need a versatile footman. A unit that can mitigate how specialised every mech unit is so that reckless transitions can be killed by scouting and moving out.
Current cyclone does a meh job at it. It's good at taking map control in TvZ, which is nice. It's good at allining against protoss, which is meh. It's good at defending liberator transitions in TvT until range is out, which is meh.
The cyclone needs to be a skirmisher, that's fast enough to take map control, that's tanky enough to mitigate the weakness of mech when caught out of position, that's versatile enough to shoot down bullshit gamble air transition. Simply put, mech needs a stalker.
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Viking do 20 damage and have 9 range. I had once thought about suggesting something similar, but then the viking will have to be nerfed as well.
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Mech never wanted stronger siege tanks?
Yes it did. Badly.
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i guess i can cherry pick quotes from 3 or 4 people and claim "no one wants stronger Siege Tanks". This is the problem with people running around saying "no one thinks `blah blah blah` " or "everyone is saying `yadda yadda yadda` ".
any how DK addressed Cyclone's anti-air at BlizzCon and he discussed Mech anti-air.
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After hearing David Kim address the issue of mech needing an anti air boost & after years & years of the community asking for it, I am hopeful that in the next year or two we'll finally see a boost to mech anti air lol <= i literally laughed out loud. It'd be funny if it werent for the fact that this game imo has been done a disservice by issues like this not being addressed quick enough. They might 1 day bring back the Goliath, which is what alot of us have suggested as a simple solution time & time again, but i wonder how many of us will even still be around by the time they do it. There's always hope i guess.
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Thats interesting. Just on top of my head, maybe give cyclone something else for ground.. lets say a mine.
Would be pretty cool, huh? Cyclones for mine usage, can be microed against stalkers e.t.c and then hellions combo.
Pretty cool micro imo.
I know its off topic, but, why cant hellion be tweaked a bit aswell? They dont really work as they "should". Their fire should be more effective while at the same time not hardcountering stuff.
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No no no, we can't have that, every mech game should be sitting back and massing 30 vikings.
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You got the mech footman.
It is called a Viking and it gets +8 damage against armored units in ground mode in the new patch.
All you have to do is transform it to ground, when enemy builds ground, and transform it to air, when he starts using more air.
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What an awful idea. Having cyclones hard counter all air would admittedly make mech more played.
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I agree with most of this, although
Mech never wanted stronger siege tanks is far from the truth. Literally everyone was asking for stronger siege tanks.
Also, whatever the circumstances, 16 range would be ridiculously long. I agree with removing the Tempest ability, and then it could go down to like 11 or 10.
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On November 06 2016 22:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
responding to the thread title "Mech anti air not being adressed?"
during DKs "analyst couch" interview at BlizzCon he stated the Cyclone might need an anti-air buff. At this early testing stage i'm happy with Blizzard just tweaking the Cyclone rather than doing another overhaul.
yep, that's sc2 fans for you - even if blizzard clearly addresses issues the community cares about and even works to improve their communication with fans, people still just say "they don't care" or "they're doing nothing" because the balance team doesn't have time to read all 400 of their bullet points about stupid shit like changing swarm host DPS and little minor things like that
On November 07 2016 03:18 Sholip wrote:I agree with most of this, although is far from the truth. Literally everyone was asking for stronger siege tanks.
yep, also totally true. in fact i'd say almost universally terran players have been complaining about siege tank strength for as long as i can remember, both bio and mech
On November 07 2016 03:18 Sholip wrote:Also, whatever the circumstances, 16 range would be ridiculously long. I agree with removing the Tempest ability, and then it could go down to like 11 or 10.
agree with this as well. extremely high ranged units generally cause serious gameplay problems for sub-GM players because dealing with an army that outranges yours 2x requires a huge amount of minimap and army attention that just isn't reasonable - just as TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DAMAGE like widow mines and disruptors cause people headaches because of minor control issues costing the game, the same thing happens when a unit has a stupid range, even if they try to "balance" the range through other numbers
if blizz wants units with 15+ range they need to let the UI be zoomed out more, and i don't think most of the community would get behind that
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EPT
