• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:30
CEST 07:30
KST 14:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3BGE Stara Zagora 2025: Info & Preview27Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3
Community News
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."1Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.3Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)11BGE Stara Zagora 2025 - Replay Pack2Weekly Cups (June 2-8): herO doubles down1
StarCraft 2
General
Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson." Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey. I have an extra ticket to the GSL Ro4/finals The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group A [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Ro8 - Group B SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recent recommended BW games BW General Discussion FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Vape Nation Thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 27306 users

Community Power Rank v5: Blizzcon with Foreigners! - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 15 Next All
FrkFrJss
Profile Joined April 2015
Canada1205 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 05:26:23
October 25 2016 04:59 GMT
#181
On October 25 2016 12:30 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2016 12:22 MLuneth wrote:
On October 25 2016 10:44 Hider wrote:
Neeb is so hilariously overrated lol. I guess this is where the "choke" meme came from. Plebs actually think he is (by far) the best foreigner and so whenever he doesn't win a tournamnet he must be choking.

He recently stomped his way through a tournament with a similar format to blizcon vs players similar to those he'll play at Blizzcon, the hype is justified


He won KeSPA cup off the back of one match-up, his PvP. His PvZ has shown a lot of cracks recently especially in his games against Scarlett.


A number of Koreans have won their GSL off of the back of their strongest matchup(s). Zest won KeSPA cup off the back of PvP. The fact that they played their best matchups does not diminish their achievement.

And yes, his PvZ doesn't look amazing right now, but I think there are a couple caveats. First, given its proximity to Blizzcon, he may not have practiced for this as hard as Scarlett might have. Second, Neeb and Scarlett were basically practice partners for a while, and team kills in the individual leagues ranged from great to wonky to completely one-sided. I remember in particular herO vs Byul was a stomp. (Though Zest vs TY was quite good).
"Keep Moving Forward" - Walt Disney
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 25 2016 08:24 GMT
#182
Absolutely insane ranking from TL!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20340606/

I would agree with Neeb being rank 5 or so right after KeSPA cup, but I don't think you can ever rank him as number 2 with a single tournament win.

And after seeing him perform at WESG NA, it was a reminder that he has yet to prove himself as the best foreigner and is just not consistent enough to earn a top 5 spot imo.

His PvP is absolutely insane, but he is not the all around best foreigner imo, just too shaky for that.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 08:42:51
October 25 2016 08:38 GMT
#183
On October 25 2016 17:24 Musicus wrote:
Absolutely insane ranking from TL!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20340606/

I would agree with Neeb being rank 5 or so right after KeSPA cup, but I don't think you can ever rank him as number 2 with a single tournament win.

And after seeing him perform at WESG NA, it was a reminder that he has yet to prove himself as the best foreigner and is just not consistent enough to earn a top 5 spot imo.

His PvP is absolutely insane, but he is not the all around best foreigner imo, just too shaky for that.

Yeah Neeb is way too high at #2. I could see anything between 5 and 8.

Also the entire paragraph about Solar... Not a fan.

Even the article on battle.net is still in early access and has mistakes:
He reached the semifinals of both GSL seasons, beating Patience, Maru, and TY in the first, and besting sOs and TY in the second.

(those are in the wrong order)
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Phredxor
Profile Joined May 2013
New Zealand15076 Posts
October 25 2016 09:35 GMT
#184
On October 25 2016 17:24 Musicus wrote:
Absolutely insane ranking from TL!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20340606/

I would agree with Neeb being rank 5 or so right after KeSPA cup, but I don't think you can ever rank him as number 2 with a single tournament win.

And after seeing him perform at WESG NA, it was a reminder that he has yet to prove himself as the best foreigner and is just not consistent enough to earn a top 5 spot imo.

His PvP is absolutely insane, but he is not the all around best foreigner imo, just too shaky for that.


Classic TL.
Jenia6109
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Russian Federation1612 Posts
October 25 2016 09:45 GMT
#185
So, they made Power Rank by TL before TL? ;D
INnoVation TY Maru | Classic Stats Dear sOs Zest herO | Rogue Dark soO
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 10:51:42
October 25 2016 09:56 GMT
#186
On October 25 2016 12:22 MLuneth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2016 10:44 Hider wrote:
Neeb is so hilariously overrated lol. I guess this is where the "choke" meme came from. Plebs actually think he is (by far) the best foreigner and so whenever he doesn't win a tournamnet he must be choking.

He recently stomped his way through a tournament with a similar format to blizcon vs players similar to those he'll play at Blizzcon, the hype is justified


"He won one tournament against koreans so he must be by far the best foreigner". It's the type of prediction made by people who are overly reliant on "storylines" rather than "raw data", and thus as a consequence heavily overrates a player.

But if you actually look at all of his results you realize two things:

1. Bracket was absolutely perfect for him - He only faced one top 15 player in the world (Stats) and won against him in his best matchup.
2. His overall results over the lats 3 months haven't been particularly great

Btw, Neeb's most recent offline result is losing to Scarlett in a bo5. And after losing 3-1 to Scarlett, he only barely managed to beat Kelazhur 3-2 to get 3rd place.

Even Aligulac - which heavily overrates foreigner over koreans - has dropped him down to 8th place in their rankings (which would be even lower if they improved the rating methdology). And this was the guy who just 2-4 months ago was top2!

But nonono, let's ignore most of his games played over that period and only take into account the results of one single tournament. Maybe uThermal was also the best foreigner after he won IEM Shanghai?

Btw, remember who Neeb beat in the Kespa Cup final: TRAP!!!!

If you are going to use the results of that one tournament and be consistent in your weightings, Trap must also be one of the best players in the world right (!) Otherwise he wouldn't have gotten that far.

According to the data, Nerchio is the strongest foreigner coming into this event with Neeb as #2. But none of them should be in the top 4.
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 10:18:16
October 25 2016 10:17 GMT
#187
On October 25 2016 18:45 Jenia6109 wrote:
So, they made Power Rank by TL before TL? ;D


I think this is the normal and only PR from TL. It's just that they posted it on Bnet instead of on TL this time.

I'm kinda sad, since we won't have any pros commenting on TL to check Soularion's ego. Maybe they will speak about it during BlizzCon .
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 10:43:04
October 25 2016 10:19 GMT
#188
My rankings.

1. Ty
2. Byun
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. Patience
8. True
9. Dear
10. Neeb
11. Snute
12. Zest
13. Showtime
14. Violet
15. Elazer
16. Ptitdrogo
Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23576 Posts
October 25 2016 10:31 GMT
#189
On October 25 2016 19:19 Hider wrote:
My rankings.

1. Ty
2. Byun
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. Patience
8. True
9. Dear
10. Neeb
11. Snute
12. Zest
13. Violet
14. Elazer
15. Showtime
(16. Polt)


I assume PtitDrogo would also be #16?
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 10:48:41
October 25 2016 10:32 GMT
#190
On October 25 2016 17:24 Musicus wrote:
Absolutely insane ranking from TL!

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20340606/

I would agree with Neeb being rank 5 or so right after KeSPA cup, but I don't think you can ever rank him as number 2 with a single tournament win.

And after seeing him perform at WESG NA, it was a reminder that he has yet to prove himself as the best foreigner and is just not consistent enough to earn a top 5 spot imo.

His PvP is absolutely insane, but he is not the all around best foreigner imo, just too shaky for that.


Everytime I open a TL power rank I am trying to go in with a mindset of positivity. Trying to remember that these are volunteers doing their best and making the community a better place.

But then I see these absolute nonsense rankings over and over and I just go on monkeytilt becasue it's clear to me that TL writers actually don't go through all of the data.

There is no way a foreigner should be in the top 4. That's reserved to Byun, Ty, Dark and Solar which have shown over the last 6 months that they are the tier 1 players.

When it comes to tier 2, we can have a debate. Right after Kespa Cup, you could make a case for Neeb at #5, but since then his results have been lackluster.

Maybe TL should actually start to pay their writers just a bit for making articles so we can demand that there is actual research behind them? Instead of just them needing to rely on the results of one tournament/the easiest narratives.

Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 10:47:15
October 25 2016 10:37 GMT
#191
Usually when people make predictions - that i consider ridiculous - I always recommend them to put their money where their mouth is (hence betting on them). If one has enough confidence in their assesments of player strenght, then they "should" be able to make a solid profit.

Imo betting is the best way to eliminate "wrong" opinions because those who are wrong quite often will be forced to acknowledge their ignorance quite quickly - otherwise they will go broke. But when ignorance is "free", there is nothing that forces people to change their methdology.

However, in this case bookmakers also overrate Neeb (still not by as much as TL does), so I guess TL writers doesn't have the opportunity to be rich after Blizzcon.

Source: http://www.bet365.dk/home/FlashGen4/WebConsoleApp.asp?&cb=10325427235


I assume PtitDrogo would also be #16?


Yes, just edited. Also put Showtime higher on the list.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 11:35:53
October 25 2016 11:03 GMT
#192
The fact that they played their best matchups does not diminish their achievement.


It means that Neeb can probably beat everyone in a PvP, but I don't see him beating any of the korean Zergs or Terrans (at least he is a heavy underdog).

On the other hand, I think Nerchio on a good day can beat everyone (he has a chance vs the top 4 players - still a small underdog ofc).
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
October 25 2016 11:14 GMT
#193
On October 25 2016 20:03 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
The fact that they played their best matchups does not diminish their achievement.


On the other hand, I think Nerchio on a good day can beat everyone (he has a chance vs the top 4 players - still a small underddog ofc).


I dunno. Patience and maru beat him very hard. His best matchup against koreans is ZvP. Thats the only matchup I could favour him in
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
October 25 2016 11:28 GMT
#194
On October 25 2016 20:14 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2016 20:03 Hider wrote:
The fact that they played their best matchups does not diminish their achievement.


On the other hand, I think Nerchio on a good day can beat everyone (he has a chance vs the top 4 players - still a small underddog ofc).


I dunno. Patience and maru beat him very hard. His best matchup against koreans is ZvP. Thats the only matchup I could favour him in

Patience, yes. Maru? Not really.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 11:32:47
October 25 2016 11:29 GMT
#195
On October 25 2016 20:14 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2016 20:03 Hider wrote:
The fact that they played their best matchups does not diminish their achievement.


On the other hand, I think Nerchio on a good day can beat everyone (he has a chance vs the top 4 players - still a small underddog ofc).


I dunno. Patience and maru beat him very hard. His best matchup against koreans is ZvP. Thats the only matchup I could favour him in


Eh, he is 2-2 vs Maru over the last 2 months. 1-0 vs Byun.

And if you take a wider look at his match history, you generally see he has very good results against some of the better terrans out there.

I find it problematic when people make predictions only based on the very few games they have watched of him rather than just skimming through his match history.

http://aligulac.com/players/26-Nerchio/results/

On the other hand Neeb can barely beat Kelazhur and losses to Scarlett.

Nerchio is like 35-3 over the last 2 months against terrans of equal or higher skill than Kelazhur.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55510 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 11:42:16
October 25 2016 11:41 GMT
#196
Although to be fair, I still give Neeb good odds to advance from his group (because honestly it's just not the hardest group for him).
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Firlefanz
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany245 Posts
October 25 2016 11:59 GMT
#197
On October 25 2016 20:41 Elentos wrote:
Although to be fair, I still give Neeb good odds to advance from his group (because honestly it's just not the hardest group for him).

If goes against Patience and Zest I could see him go 4-0 / 4-1 in his group. In my powerrank I didn't really consider the difficulty of the groups... Oh well...

Neeb at Rank 2 is still weird, imo. I also think Snute is too inconsistent lately to be ranked at Rank 10. Surprising that Dark is number 1 in so many rankings.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 12:04:07
October 25 2016 12:02 GMT
#198
On October 25 2016 20:59 Firlefanz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2016 20:41 Elentos wrote:
Although to be fair, I still give Neeb good odds to advance from his group (because honestly it's just not the hardest group for him).

If goes against Patience and Zest I could see him go 4-0 / 4-1 in his group. In my powerrank I didn't really consider the difficulty of the groups... Oh well...

Neeb at Rank 2 is still weird, imo. I also think Snute is too inconsistent lately to be ranked at Rank 10. Surprising that Dark is number 1 in so many rankings.


He could also lose to Patience. Let's not make it out to be that he is invincible in the matchup as he actually lost to Patience in Shoutcraft 10 days ago.

He probably still go out of groups, but anything could happen.

Also if TL did take groups into account (which you normally don't in PR), it would have to be specifically stated. So most likely they just think Neeb is fantastic because he won Kespa Cup.
bulya
Profile Joined February 2016
Israel386 Posts
October 25 2016 12:07 GMT
#199
No matter in what order do you put Dark. Byun, Solar, and TY it will still be arguable, so they are simply the top 4.
About the rest, its about who have a higher chance getting out of his group.

The only reason why I don't believe that much in Nerchio is because he is in a very hard group.
Knocking out TY or Solar will be an achievement for him.

For almost the same reason I think Neeb will get to the RO8, his group isn't that hard for him, and he will play his best match-up at least once, I bet that he will play PvP twice in that group (which means he have a very good chance of getting to the RO8).

Yes I know Neeb lost to Scarlett and so on, but I don't think it reflects that much upon what is going to happen in Blizzcon.
In the WESG qualifiers Neebs goal was to qualify, so I don't think he cared that much about his match vs Scarlett, I bet he was already preparing to Blizzcon (like he had that much time for it with these 2 events happening almost in the same week).
For example, Dark didn't even qualify to the Kespa Cup, but it doesn't mean he will do his worst in Blizzcon,

If I have to bet Neeb will be the only foreigner in the RO8, although I hope I'm wrong (may be Snute can prove me wrong, or Nerchio will do the impossible).
From there on, it depends upon the bracket. If the 4 players I mentioned as the top 4 doesn't meet each other in the RO8, they will probably be in the Semis, and from there nothing will surprise me.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9366 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-25 12:18:08
October 25 2016 12:12 GMT
#200
Yes I know Neeb lost to Scarlett and so on, but I don't think it reflects that much upon what is going to happen in Blizzcon.
In the WESG qualifiers Neebs goal was to qualify, so I don't think he cared that much about his match vs Scarlett,


Yes he didnt' care about winning extra dollar at all but on the other hand cares alot about doing well in online tournaments....

Yes, this is the classic "he was probably saving strats for xxx"-logic (which most people by now have made a meme of becasue it's 100% a result of bias).

Further, if you through his past data results, you see that him and Scarlett have played a ton of close matches. It's close to 50-50 between him. Not really particularly surprising that Neeb lost to Scarlett.

Nerchio probably could also easily have won Kespa Cup but just didn't feel like it as he wanted his opponents to underrestimate him going into Blizzcon.

For almost the same reason I think Neeb will get to the RO8, his group isn't that hard for him,


Also just lost to True less than 2 days ago in a bo5.

obviously still has a better chance of going out of group than Nerchio but that's not what powerranks are about.
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 31m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 308
Nina 214
StarCraft: Brood War
Leta 653
Larva 556
ajuk12(nOOB) 218
PianO 89
Noble 36
Dota 2
BabyKnight25
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K643
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor106
Other Games
summit1g6984
C9.Mang01291
WinterStarcraft439
Fuzer 94
Trikslyr32
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3247
Other Games
gamesdonequick890
StarCraft 2
CranKy Ducklings145
IntoTheiNu 28
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• EnkiAlexander 77
• practicex 41
• HKG_Chickenman36
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Diggity3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt444
Other Games
• Scarra1133
Upcoming Events
SOOP
3h 31m
sOs vs Percival
CranKy Ducklings
4h 31m
WardiTV Invitational
5h 31m
ByuN vs MaNa
MaxPax vs Solar
Reynor vs Creator
Gerald vs Spirit
Cheesadelphia
9h 31m
CSO Cup
11h 31m
BSL: ProLeague
12h 31m
Hawk vs UltrA
Sziky vs spx
TerrOr vs JDConan
GSL Code S
1d 2h
Rogue vs herO
Classic vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 4h
BSL: ProLeague
1d 12h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
Cross vs Doodle
MadiNho vs Dragon
Replay Cast
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Cure vs Percival
ByuN vs Spirit
RSL Revival
4 days
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Serral vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
BGE Stara Zagora 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
2025 GSL S2
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.