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I can just speak for myself as a terran. If zerg gets auto inject i would be really disappointed (mid master).
T and P have to focus on placing many buildings correctly, walling off at certain stages of the game, etc.
If z had autoinject what would be left? spreading creep building units appart form microing?
I think they should work on different fronts here.
and @microlife: of course attacking is easier (they speak of harass, not the frontial attacks i guess). The reason is you can prepare your attacks while the defender often has to react quickly. imagine 4 medivacs dropping at different locations. you would have to split your army perfectly to defend it well.
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Why dont they just let us choose whether we want the army and worker supply counts displayed permanently or on mouseover?
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On October 01 2016 08:10 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:56 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
People need to understand that KOREANS talk from they perspective.
At the highest level Zerg is the hardest race because you have to act and defend massive agression while injecting.
DEFENDING WAS ALWAYS HARDER THEN ATTACKING IN ANY GOD DAMN STRATEGY GAME.
THEN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT ZERG HAS VERY LIITLE MICRO SO THEY CANT GET MUCH FROM THEIR UNITS UNLIKE THE OTHER TWO RACES.
So yes Zerg at the Korean Zerg is pretty bad.
Should they balance around Koreans or foreigners... that is the question for Blizz
I might agree with them if they said zerg is too hard. Nonetheless,their feedbacks this time are very good.Addressed what foreigners community want.
It really feels like they are trying to please everybody and its impossible.
The asimmetry in sc2 is so bad... its impossible to balance at all levels.
They need to choose one camp.
Yes it will piss alot of people but at least someone will be hapy instead of everyone being unhappy.
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On October 01 2016 08:14 MiCroLiFe wrote:
defending was always harder then attacking ? when attacking you have to be at more places at once than deffending. i dont se youre logic shamanelemtal1
but if you attack at multiple locations, then the defender has to defend at multiple locations...
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On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game.
wtf does league of legends have to do with anything, it's a completely different game genre. there is no economic harassment in lol because there is no economy.
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On October 01 2016 08:14 MiCroLiFe wrote:
defending was always harder then attacking ? when attacking you have to be at more places at once than deffending. i dont se youre logic shamanelemtal1
The agressor always has the advantage its one of the first rules of real time strategy. You are deying that the sky is blue.
There is a reason people attack from more anggles to dissrupt the opponent.
Search on google.
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Everyone i find in test mode in NA is a plat/diamond mecher. Hard to give an opinion about balance.
I like the new hydras a lot, they're very strong, hopefuly won't get nerfed too much and will still be viable by november.
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On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game.
i don't feel ignored at all. of course i'm pretty careful about how often i criticize and what i criticize. however, i thought Terran air was too strong and ground was too weak at the start of LotV. The series of nerfs and buffs addressed that issue. Is it the perfect balance that i personally dream of in a game? nah, but DK is not here to make a game personally for me. the changes to Terran throughout LotV's 1st year have been good. I play 40% as Terran and 60% as Random and i don't have a strong opinion about the other races. I've been a Terran at heart since The Hammer Falls and I didn't care that the Academy was $200. 
I like the fast&fluid nature of C&C and DK took a sharp turn towards that style in the changes from HotS to LotV. I'm happy about that.
I didn't think the ladder revamp would impact my playing experience at all. I was wrong. The ladder revamp improved my experience. Is it a revolutionary change that makes SC2 better than mind expanding sex? no, but ladder is an improved experience.
i've spent ~$2500 (a lot of that was flying from TO to Southern Cal.) on the SC franchise the past 6 years and its been money well spent. Its a hella-fun, super-cheap hobby.
what you see is what you get man. you know DK , Blizzard's approach and SC2. it ain't changin'. if you are this dissatisfied there are lots of other RTS games with active communities like RA2, AoE2, AoE3, Generals, WC3, CoH1, CoH2 and Brood War that you can play. If you do not like any of the current available options then I'd say you are probably just flat out bored of RTS games and looking for a scape goat.
myself, when i'm sick of all the in-base economy babysitting, and in-base household chores of SC2 i play RA3. At this stage its tough for a new player to join in. The remaining community is a shark tank.
There is zero probability I'll get an RA3 style economy retrofitted into SC2 so i just don't bother asking for it. Blizzard has done a nice job with QoL features like worker counts over CCs and refineries to at least make economy babysitting more convenient. The "entire army" button rocks.
i am really pleased with how Greg Black has influenced SC2. He was the designer guy for RA3.
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On October 01 2016 08:29 ShamanElemental1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 08:14 MiCroLiFe wrote:
defending was always harder then attacking ? when attacking you have to be at more places at once than deffending. i dont se youre logic shamanelemtal1
The agressor always has the advantage its one of the first rules of real time strategy. You are deying that the sky is blue. There is a reason people attack from more anggles to dissrupt the opponent. Search on google.
I dont get it. In SC2, I have heard many times of defenders advantage, but never heard of attackers advantage.
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On October 01 2016 08:51 Zedd wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 08:29 ShamanElemental1 wrote:On October 01 2016 08:14 MiCroLiFe wrote:
defending was always harder then attacking ? when attacking you have to be at more places at once than deffending. i dont se youre logic shamanelemtal1
The agressor always has the advantage its one of the first rules of real time strategy. You are deying that the sky is blue. There is a reason people attack from more anggles to dissrupt the opponent. Search on google. I dont get it. In SC2, I have heard many times of defenders advantage, but never heard of attackers advantage.
Defenders advantage refers to the idea that your reinforcements arrive at the battle faster than the attacks as your production facilities are closer, as well as most maps giving the defender something like a choke point or a cliff to defend with.
I think the attackers advantage they're talking about mostly refers to being able to plan an attack and forcing a correct response out of the defender or do massive damage. It's easier to set up a 3 pronged attack and move in than it is to split your army and defend it correctly. I don't personally think this is an advantage in every situation, it's less impactful than defenders advantage most of the time.
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On October 01 2016 08:19 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
I can just speak for myself as a terran. If zerg gets auto inject i would be really disappointed (mid master).
T and P have to focus on placing many buildings correctly, walling off at certain stages of the game, etc.
If z had autoinject what would be left? spreading creep building units appart form microing?
I think they should work on different fronts here.
...
There is something though and it's especially obvious when you play random :
Protoss just need to select the building you want CB on, it's important in early mid game, but not so much in late game (remember in HotS/WoL when all Nexi were full energy in late game?) so after 12 mins you just need to not miss your warp-in cycles and you're free to focus on your army micro
Terran has to be spot on on mules, but once 3 bases are saturated it's not such a big deal and most energy is saved to use scans. Again after 12 mins, you can spend 90% of your time microing your army, in the worst case scenario you can still call 8 mules at a time if you need so.
Zergs on the other hand, you never can stop the injects even in a 30 min game, you till have that task distracts you from microing you army or reacting to your opponent's moves in time, every 29 seconds you need to use camera location select queens and inject, and if you miss even just a a couple of injects it can mean the loss of a game you should have won. It makes longer games harder to play for Z than for the other races imho : you really need more stamina.
I do not agree either with the perma inject that was tested in beta. But it would be nice to have a way to ease the multitask for Zergs in the late game
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On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game.
Oh no poor you! You had to SUFFER!
Cry me a river and go play LOL then. Problem solved.
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On October 01 2016 09:07 Exquisite7 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game. Oh no poor you! You had to SUFFER! Cry me a river and go play LOL then. Problem solved.
It's this type of post that killed this game. Telling people to go play other games instead of actually wanting Blizzard to fix the game's glaring problems. And what do you know, a whole lot of people did leave, and they aren't coming back.
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Injecting every 15 seconds or so while creep spreading while maintaing healthy unit/drone count while trying to control the map and attack in multiple places while trying to keep your army from melting in 3 seconds. Yeah #Zerg
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we dont have banelings. mariones melt in 1 sec;)
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its a reason 80% of the high placement in foreeginer scene is zerg;)
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On October 01 2016 09:02 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 08:19 SpecKROELLchen wrote:
I can just speak for myself as a terran. If zerg gets auto inject i would be really disappointed (mid master).
T and P have to focus on placing many buildings correctly, walling off at certain stages of the game, etc.
If z had autoinject what would be left? spreading creep building units appart form microing?
I think they should work on different fronts here.
... There is something though and it's especially obvious when you play random : Protoss just need to select the building you want CB on, it's important in early mid game, but not so much in late game (remember in HotS/WoL when all Nexi were full energy in late game?) so after 12 mins you just need to not miss your warp-in cycles and you're free to focus on your army micro Terran has to be spot on on mules, but once 3 bases are saturated it's not such a big deal and most energy is saved to use scans. Again after 12 mins, you can spend 90% of your time microing your army, in the worst case scenario you can still call 8 mules at a time if you need so. Zergs on the other hand, you never can stop the injects even in a 30 min game, you till have that task distracts you from microing you army or reacting to your opponent's moves in time, every 29 seconds you need to use camera location select queens and inject, and if you miss even just a a couple of injects it can mean the loss of a game you should have won. It makes longer games harder to play for Z than for the other races imho : you really need more stamina. I do not agree either with the perma inject that was tested in beta. But it would be nice to have a way to ease the multitask for Zergs in the late game
It's not really that bad though. You only need a ton of larva if you are relying on tier 2 units the whole game. Once you get to the late game, you have enough hatcheries from the expansions you've taken to produce a decent amount of larva without spot on injects. And in the late game for the most part you are creating units that are cheap on larva: Ultra, queen, viper, infestor, corrupter, broodlord.
Zerg might have to always focus on hitting injects until after the mid game, but when it comes to infrastructure, they barely have to worry. Whereas Protoss and even more so terran has to plan the exact amount of production buildings to get for every time they get another base before 5 bases. I think the game is fair as is.
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On October 01 2016 09:10 Nerchio wrote:
Injecting every 15 seconds or so while creep spreading while maintaing healthy unit/drone count while trying to control the map and attack in multiple places while trying to keep your army from melting in 3 seconds. Yeah #Zerg
Well Nerchio you should make a long message on twitter because scrubs dont get that.
Dont get me wrong im a scrub to in masters but its pretty obivous for me.
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On October 01 2016 09:09 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 09:07 Exquisite7 wrote:On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game. Oh no poor you! You had to SUFFER! Cry me a river and go play LOL then. Problem solved. It's this type of post that killed this game. Telling people to go play other games instead of actually wanting Blizzard to fix the game's glaring problems. And what do you know, a whole lot of people did leave, and they aren't coming back.
It's okay, I am watching Worlds right now, while queuing up an ARAM game.
Now he can suffer with the problems and be an apologist for Blizzard's mistakes.
On October 01 2016 08:28 -NegativeZero- wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game. wtf does league of legends have to do with anything, it's a completely different game genre. there is no economic harassment in lol because there is no economy.
League regularly releases game design blogs and is played by more people than anything else, so it relates to the game design.
I remember when I used to think SC2 was better too.
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On October 01 2016 09:09 Solar424 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2016 09:07 Exquisite7 wrote:On October 01 2016 07:38 BronzeKnee wrote:On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.
Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?
I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing. the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch Only four years late. David Kim is clueless. Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level. On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017? He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design. Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game. Oh no poor you! You had to SUFFER! Cry me a river and go play LOL then. Problem solved. It's this type of post that killed this game. Telling people to go play other games instead of actually wanting Blizzard to fix the game's glaring problems. And what do you know, a whole lot of people did leave, and they aren't coming back.
HA! Yea right...
I'm responsible for pushing away the person who already hates the game. The person who only gets on these forums to bash Blizzard for such a shitty game that ruins their life.
Okay fine lets say you're right, my comment makes people not want to play. Good! I'm tired of this SC2 community being filled with entitled pricks who complain at everything Blizzard does! I'd rather be part of a community that responds with rejoice when Blizzard announces that they are doing their best EVERY WEEK to improve the game. Whether they succeed or fail.
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EPT
