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Community Feedback Update: Content Abounds

Forum Index > SC2 General
114 CommentsPost a Reply
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Edowyth
Profile Joined October 2010
United States183 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-06 18:20:51
September 30 2016 21:47 GMT
#1
[image loading]

Source


Posted on behalf of David Kim:


Worker Counter

We discussed this a few weeks ago and got a lot of great feedback. Regarding worker/army supply matching the supply count, almost everyone agreed that the change regarding working/army supply matching the supply count was good, so we’ll try implementing it sometime soon.

At the same time, we received mixed feedback on displaying the counter all the time versus displaying it only when you move your mouse cursor over, as it is currently. Right now we feel that it’ll be best to leave this as-is. We don’t want extra clutter on-screen, and since it isn’t primary information that’s needed on the screen at all times, it just doesn’t stack well with team games.

KR Pro/Coaches Meeting

Last week, we had a chance to meet up with majority of the coaches in Korea as well as some of the pro players. Their main complaint was that StarCraft II is way too difficult to master even for the highest level pros. Initially, we responded that StarCraft II is meant to be the peak challenge of all games, and therefore it is supposed to be nearly impossible to master—even for the best gamers in the world. After we dug into the specifics, however, we found two main topics that we want to bring up with the StarCraft II community.

First, the Korean coaches and players felt that zerg requires many more actions than the other two races to be able to compete. To address this, they suggested that we bring back the automated larva injects that we tested in the beta. That’s a possibility, but bear in mind the buffs to other zerg units we’re exploring in the major redesign patch and zerg’s respectable performance in recent tournaments.

Secondly, they felt that some of the harassment options in Legacy of the Void are either too mobile or too strong. We mostly discussed Adepts, Tankivacs, and Warp Prisms as the key units on this front, however, and we already intend to address all three of these in the major redesign. We don’t have any action items resulting from this feedback, but we feel more confident than ever that we’re on the right track with the changes we currently have planned for the major redesign patch.

Adjustments to Balance Testing

We want to move pretty quickly with our next pass of changes since we didn’t get to discuss any community feedback last week. Let’s get the ball rolling on discussing upcoming changes so we can put them out as soon as possible—assuming everyone’s in agreement, of course.

Cyclone

There’s been an issue with the Cyclone’s weapon where its actual damage output was lower than its tooltip indicated. However, this lower damage output has been the value we have been intending to test against. We are adjusting the Cyclone weapon’s attack period and attack delays so that its damage output and tooltip line up with its intended values.

Baneling

We’re seeing feedback regarding Baneling health being too high (especially in the early game in ZvZ). If this is the case, we could simply move the health boost to come with Centrifugal Hooks instead of at tier 1. Please let us know if you agree with this direction.

Raven Auto Turret

We agree with your feedback that the Auto Turret’s damage after the upgrade appears to be too high right now, so we’d like to leave their damage as is, and change the upgrade so that it only further increases the effectiveness of Seeker Missiles. Therefore, the change we’re thinking of here is to remove the damage bonus to Auto Turrets from this upgrade, keep the damage bonus to Seeker Missiles, and also add a longer tracking time to Seeker Missiles through this upgrade. This way, Seeker Missiles will follow their target further before expiring.

Fast Teching to Tempest

We’re seeing a lot of feedback on the Tempest ability being too strong when players rush their tech directly to Tempests. To combat this, we could potentially add a research for this ability to help slow down the timing in which Disruption Sphere comes into play.

Protoss in General

We agree with a lot of your feedback saying the Void Ray change could potentially be a different option for Protoss to tech to, but some people also seem to feel that the Protoss need more tools at their disposal. We would love to hear some specific suggestions on this side, so that we can explore potential new strategic routes that we can test out.

Some of the ideas here that we’re currently discussing are: Finding ways to potentially buff Disruptors vs. Terran and/or Zerg, or Stalker base damage increased vs. light while keeping the total damage vs. armored the same.

We’re looking forward to reviewing your feedback, so please let us know your thoughts!
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Leviance
Profile Joined November 2009
Germany4079 Posts
September 30 2016 21:59 GMT
#2
I always knew Zerg was hardest to play
"Blizzard is never gonna nerf Terran because of those American and European fuck" - Korean Netizen
Dinotramp
Profile Joined August 2012
Nauru2871 Posts
September 30 2016 22:06 GMT
#3
Because if anyone needs a buff it's protoss...
RIP Starcraft scene in the UK. Defeated by EG money and Swedish Zergs.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17658 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-30 22:08:47
September 30 2016 22:07 GMT
#4
i like the possible change to the baneling. i play at a diamond/~100 APM level and for me i think its a good way to nerf the baneling. i play Terran 40% of the time and random 60%

Thanks for the insights from Korean pros. I think its important to insure the game is balanced at the top level even if that means my performance on the ladder declines due to a nerf that particularly harms low APM players like me.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
September 30 2016 22:10 GMT
#5
I mean an adept nerf has been needed for awhile. Still think nerfing the cool down would be better, but the vision change might prove to be correct. Very curious how the game will be played in 2017.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2658 Posts
September 30 2016 22:11 GMT
#6
Zerg was the only race that got easier in LotV because of staking inject, how are they the hardest?
CuteMadCat
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany25 Posts
September 30 2016 22:13 GMT
#7
Everything feels so random at this point.
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5222 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-30 22:36:29
September 30 2016 22:14 GMT
#8
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.

Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?

I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) which forces Blizzard to create new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no one harasses anymore because the defenses work.

It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing.
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
September 30 2016 22:15 GMT
#9
On October 01 2016 07:11 Lexender wrote:
Zerg was the only race that got easier in LotV because of staking inject, how are they the hardest?


To be honest stacking injects has made it harder, at least for me.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17658 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-30 22:26:01
September 30 2016 22:23 GMT
#10
On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing.

nah, that's the Greg Black "fast and fluid" RTS philosophy shining through. i'm neutral/agnostic on the "tech level" of spore crawlers.

On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.

Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?

I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.


is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017?
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
-NegativeZero-
Profile Joined August 2011
United States2142 Posts
September 30 2016 22:27 GMT
#11
On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.

Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?

I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.

It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing.

the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch
vibeo gane,
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
September 30 2016 22:35 GMT
#12
The problem is not about auto turret ! People are complaining mass raven in TvT.
Baneling's upgrade seems good.
Zerg is too hard because korean terrans play their race at it peak.But i surprise that no korean player complains about ultra ? WTF :O
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5222 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-09-30 22:47:57
September 30 2016 22:38 GMT
#13
On October 01 2016 07:27 -NegativeZero- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 01 2016 07:14 BronzeKnee wrote:
I never cease to enjoy watching the train wreck that is David Kim trying to balance this game.

Where is the Ultra armor change? Why is Terran still so dependent on the Liberator in the late game?

I've literally been saying for years as we go round, yet again, the harass merry go-round that Blizzard needs to get off it. They buff harass tools so that everyone uses them because they are so strong you'd be stupid not to, then then buff defensive options so you can stop them (see Photon Overcharge) so then Blizzard creates new harass tools that can work around the defenses, because no harassed anymore because the defenses work.

It is ridiculous. The game was much better off when the defender had the tools, but had to scout and makes reads in order to stop the incoming attack. Spore Crawlers without a Evo Chamber is what you get when you don't know what you are doing.

the post literally states that they are trying to nerf harass options in the upcoming patch


Only four years late. David Kim is clueless.

Ya know what game is working well, both for people to play and as an E-Sport? League of Legends. And it isn't insanely difficult to master, yet only a small percentage of people can play at the top level.

On October 01 2016 07:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
is he balancing the game or is he instigating a giant change/shift during the off season to prepare for another competitive season in 2017?


He is doing what he always does, destroying the player base by ignoring the basic tenets of game design. He is the reason we had to suffer through hours long Swarm Host matches, such a poorly designed unit that violated so much of what we know about game design.

Thinking he can solve the problems he created is ignorant at this point, look at the track record. Let's all remember how the Tempest was going to be a solution to Mutalisks, then realize how it has become a boring A-move monster of the late game.

User was warned for this post
SetGuitarsToKill
Profile Blog Joined December 2013
Canada28396 Posts
September 30 2016 22:47 GMT
#14

Secondly, they felt that some of the harassment options in Legacy of the Void are either too mobile or too strong. We mostly discussed Adepts, Tankivacs, and Warp Prisms as the key units on this front, however, and we already intend to address all three of these in the major redesign. We don’t have any action items resulting from this feedback, but we feel more confident than ever that we’re on the right track with the changes we currently have planned for the major redesign patch.


I've always felt the harass-purpose units were too annoying in SC2. The problem is the way SC2 tends to work is if you don't get any harass in the opponents economy explodes and you can get rolled over, so it's a tricky situation to fix and would require, as they mention, a massive game redesign to fix. Tankivacs being removed is a start and moves the game towards a slightly slower, more tactical game that most people I feel want.
Community News"As long as you have a warp prism you can't be bad at harassment" - Maru | @SetGuitars2Kill
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5222 Posts
September 30 2016 22:52 GMT
#15
On October 01 2016 07:47 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:
Show nested quote +

Secondly, they felt that some of the harassment options in Legacy of the Void are either too mobile or too strong. We mostly discussed Adepts, Tankivacs, and Warp Prisms as the key units on this front, however, and we already intend to address all three of these in the major redesign. We don’t have any action items resulting from this feedback, but we feel more confident than ever that we’re on the right track with the changes we currently have planned for the major redesign patch.


I've always felt the harass-purpose units were too annoying in SC2.


Harass units are a direct result of Blizzard wanting more action after they systematically destroyed the power of one base play. However if they are too weak, no one uses them, and if they are too strong, everyone does. There is little in between when information gathering is so easy.

I personally very much enjoyed trying to stop the one base 1-1-1 or 4 Gate army marching to my base, but abhor chasing Adepts around. One is a battle, one feels like a poorly conceived custom game.

ShamanElemental1
Profile Joined April 2016
56 Posts
September 30 2016 22:56 GMT
#16
People need to understand that KOREANS talk from they perspective.

At the highest level Zerg is the hardest race because you have to act and defend massive agression while injecting.

DEFENDING WAS ALWAYS HARDER THEN ATTACKING IN ANY GOD DAMN STRATEGY GAME.

THEN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT ZERG HAS VERY LIITLE MICRO SO THEY CANT GET MUCH FROM THEIR UNITS UNLIKE THE OTHER TWO RACES.

So yes Zerg at the Korean Zerg is pretty bad.

Should they balance around Koreans or foreigners... that is the question for Blizz
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
September 30 2016 23:10 GMT
#17
Really? It took you till now to realize that harass is too strong? When toss can kill 20-30 workers with Adepts with no effort at all, just shade to the next base? Blizzard has no idea what they're doing, and with KT possibly disbanding they're finally seeing the consequences of their actions. Just sheer incompetence.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
September 30 2016 23:10 GMT
#18
On October 01 2016 07:56 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
People need to understand that KOREANS talk from they perspective.

At the highest level Zerg is the hardest race because you have to act and defend massive agression while injecting.

DEFENDING WAS ALWAYS HARDER THEN ATTACKING IN ANY GOD DAMN STRATEGY GAME.

THEN YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT ZERG HAS VERY LIITLE MICRO SO THEY CANT GET MUCH FROM THEIR UNITS UNLIKE THE OTHER TWO RACES.

So yes Zerg at the Korean Zerg is pretty bad.

Should they balance around Koreans or foreigners... that is the question for Blizz

I might agree with them if they said zerg is too hard.
Nonetheless,their feedbacks this time are very good.Addressed what foreigners community want.
Thouhastmail
Profile Joined March 2015
Korea (North)876 Posts
September 30 2016 23:14 GMT
#19
buffi defensive buildings; it is the simplest and best way.

for instance, delete overcharge and buff photon cannon's HP
"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people we personally dislike"
MiCroLiFe
Profile Joined March 2012
Norway275 Posts
September 30 2016 23:14 GMT
#20
defending was always harder then attacking ? when attacking you have to be at more places at once than deffending. i dont se youre logic shamanelemtal1
Im Terran. Yes i will balance whine somethimes. And thats how we terrans survive, Hoping for balance patches<3
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