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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:00 Zambrah wrote: Yes, and this difference in practice quality, not practice quantity, is why Koreans are better at StarCraft. No, koreans practice way more. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
EDIT: Chariosaur, I'd be willing to accept that if I actually knew the top Korean pro practice schedule compared to the top Foreign pro practice schedules, but even if foreigners practiced 1-2 hours less I'd still wager the reason they're behind is that their practice is of a lower quality. For instance, when learning to draw you can spend 10 hours a day at it and still fucking suck because your practice isn't good (ie drawing from life/reference rather than from imagination, or drawing small details before the overall composition of an image, etc.) Part of the argument that Koreans are good for the international scene via these tournaments is that they bring that higher quality of practice. I'm not sure if you've ever made that argument, but it's a common one and I thought I'd bring it up because why not. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
Can you say that with absolute certainty? That all Koreans practice more than all foreigners? On September 12 2016 11:10 Zambrah wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about, I don't think I ever asserted that Foreign Zergs were better than Korean Zergs? EDIT: Chariosaur, I'd be willing to accept that if I actually knew the top Korean pro practice schedule compared to the top Foreign pro practice schedules, but even if foreigners practiced 1-2 hours less I'd still wager the reason they're behind is that their practice is of a lower quality. For instance, when learning to draw you can spend 10 hours a day at it and still fucking suck because your practice isn't good (ie drawing from life/reference rather than from imagination, or drawing small details before the overall composition of an image, etc.) Part of the argument that Koreans are good for the international scene via these tournaments is that they bring that higher quality of practice. I'm not sure if you've ever made that argument, but it's a common one and I thought I'd bring it up because why not. Also they have a team salary supporting them so they don't have to worry about expenses, and some Koreans have coaches who are dedicated to making them better. | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:10 Zambrah wrote: I have no idea what you are talking about, I don't think I ever asserted that Foreign Zergs were better than Korean Zergs? Talking to foreign fans in general more than anyone else. You're just a really good example of one side of the foreign fandom. If uThermal is right and the Koreans are dominant to the point of just discouraging foreigners instead of being motivation to improve, then no part of the foreign scene should be 'better' than the Korean scene. (I am, of course, assuming that uThermal has become discouraged after spending countless sleepless nights trying to analyze Korean builds and replays, and reaching the salty conclusion that he can never replicate this.) If even one part of the Korean scene is equal or inferior to the foreign scene, uThermal is lying and foreigners just need to work harder to catch up. After all, it just took half a year for the Zerg race to beat Koreans! | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:14 FrkFrJss wrote: Can you say that with absolute certainty? That all Koreans practice more than all foreigners? Yeah its just genetics that all Koreans are better than foreigners. Its not like Solar played 70 games a day to prep for finals. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
Scarlet, Naniwa, Neeb, Huk, Stephano, Snute, IdrA for instance | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:19 Zambrah wrote: I dunno, most of the parts of the foreign scene that have historically competed with Koreans are either hyper-talented Zergs, or people who went to train in Korea, often Protosses. Scarlet, Naniwa, Neeb, Huk, Stephano, Snute, IdrA for instance And historically, skill was the deciding factor in who got to earn big money in sports. This is new shit and it aggravates me that only 6 months or so of the region lock got people, even progamers, forgetting how dominant Koreans were, and thinking they are actually Korean status or something now. I was initially just going to shut up and wait for Blizzcon, but its way too far away and I always need to prove a point on the interwebs. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
I'm confused as to why this is suddenly apart of this discussion | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:23 RCCar wrote: And historically, skill was the deciding factor in who got to earn big money in sports. This is new shit and it aggravates me that only 6 months or so of the region lock got people, even progamers, forgetting how dominant Koreans were, and thinking they are actually Korean status or something now. I was initially just going to shut up and wait for Blizzcon, but its way too far away and I always need to prove a point on the interwebs. KeSPA cup ain't far away. That'll be a start. | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:24 Zambrah wrote: Wasn't the very foundation of the argument that we're having that Koreans ARE better than Foreigners? I'm confused as to why this is suddenly apart of this discussion As I said, I wasn't talking to you after the initial quote. I'm sorry if you're confused. I'm just quoting you because you represent one side(Foreigners will never overcome Koreans because infrastructure) of the foreign fans. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:14 FrkFrJss wrote: Can you say that with absolute certainty? That all Koreans practice more than all foreigners? I don't know the exact practice schedules but from what I hear from foreigners they seem to lack dedication. A ton of foreigners quit due to a "lack of motivation" then we have things like lilbow not practicing for blizzcon, marinelord admitting he played more overwatch then sc2, nerchio not playing as much during HotS because he "didn't enjoy the game as much", scarlett also took a long break from sc2. Of course there are also super-hardworking guys like snute but snute seems to be more the exception amongst foreigners. I would be VERY surprised if players with such an attitude practiced on average as much as koreans. (This is not meant as an insult, they still have probably a better attitude than most people, just compared to the koreans their attitude is lacking) | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
On September 12 2016 10:38 RCCar wrote: Deleted quote bc I don't know what kind of college neeb goes to and thus it might not be super commitment. Nevertheless, Neeb's skill level is apparent. "We don't see these type of players quite often." Exactly my point. And those are the players who win tourneys. Not welfare bred players who whine about "we deserve a chance too" Idk if Major, Whinebow, uThermal are TL players btw? There was also this super fat protoss (I don't remember his name, just that he was obese. Sorry I had to make a degrading comment). He made it sound like he was gonna win everything as soon as the koreans were gone lmao. I haven't seen him even qualify for anything yet. New edit) I think his ID started with a D, and he fought with avilo or something on youtube. That's the most i remember him. I'll try to look him up. Super edit) found him. Name is desrow. Poor guy in the chain thinking Neeb is going to College. He graduated HS then put his schooling on hold to play SC2 and is in Korea practicing his heart out. | ||
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OrangeGarage
Korea (South)319 Posts
On September 12 2016 12:55 Parrek wrote: Poor guy in the chain thinking Neeb is going to College. He graduated HS then put his schooling on hold to play SC2 and is in Korea practicing his heart out. #roasted #commitment | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On September 12 2016 11:38 Charoisaur wrote: I don't know the exact practice schedules but from what I hear from foreigners they seem to lack dedication. A ton of foreigners quit due to a "lack of motivation" then we have things like lilbow not practicing for blizzcon, marinelord admitting he played more overwatch then sc2, nerchio not playing as much during HotS because he "didn't enjoy the game as much", scarlett also took a long break from sc2. Of course there are also super-hardworking guys like snute but snute seems to be more the exception amongst foreigners. I would be VERY surprised if players with such an attitude practiced on average as much as koreans. (This is not meant as an insult, they still have probably a better attitude than most people, just compared to the koreans their attitude is lacking) For sure, I'll agree with you on that part. I would say on average foreigners work not as hard as Koreans. But again, for those who worked and continue to work very hard, I think infrastructure (along with money) plays a big part. Snute's worked ridiculously hard, and he hasn't broken in the top levels of Korean tournaments. And the thing is, we've seen that players who may not have worked as hard (I don't know how hard Naniwa worked) like Stephano who have been able to reach high levels. I think that hard work (not just grinding out games but also studying replays and the like) is a very important part, but I think outside influence is still very important. It's like an athlete who wants to go pro. Attitude and commitment is huge, but you also need a lot of other things like physio, nutrition, and coaching to really be the best. (Not to mention money) | ||
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
They analyse every second of games by watching'em over and over and over again, finding opponent's habitual mistakes and tendencies. Then they make and offer counter builds to their players, while scouting North Korea`s actions. And this makes Byun so special; I believe one day non-Koreans will achieve this as well. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17734 Posts
On September 12 2016 15:17 Thouhastmail wrote: while scouting North Korea`s actions. wat? | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
I think he's just trying to get across how much coaches do. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
i often see people underestimating what thouhastmail has mentioned even if it's only a cursory or outsider look on what's happening. that's looking at every second and comparing their frame of mind to others, including yourself. that's where copying something and making it better or viable comes from. if you have a coach and the mentality of a player like this, improvement only comes as part of time. compared to players who don't have it, it is like being light years ahead. | ||
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Itachithegoat
United States4 Posts
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