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On September 12 2016 06:10 onlyskillmatters wrote:
Ironically Byun just won code S, no team, no team house, no coach, just one guy with a dream, skill, foreign practice partners (neeb and chinese protosses), and a puppy.
And a bloody wrist!
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On September 12 2016 06:10 onlyskillmatters wrote:
Ironically Byun just won code S, no team, no team house, no coach, just one guy with a dream, skill, foreign practice partners (neeb and chinese protosses), and a puppy. But we must have all just imagined that, because so many of our best players say it's impossible to compete with these things.
"But he's Korean, so he doesn't count and we still need to ban him" - Every WCS supporter ever
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On September 12 2016 06:16 rednusa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 06:10 onlyskillmatters wrote:
Ironically Byun just won code S, no team, no team house, no coach, just one guy with a dream, skill, foreign practice partners (neeb and chinese protosses), and a puppy. And a bloody wrist!
and MyuNgSiK
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Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo.
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Honestly competing against Koreans in just tournaments doesn't do much for skill, can you really say that you could play like 4 games of football(soccer) against David Beckham (or who the hell ever, I don't football/soccer) and suddenly become significantly better at soccer? He'd steamroll you four times and you'd have learned nothing because you're not getting consistent practice.
I don't particularly care about Koreans competing internationally, I follow the race (Protoss, you sillies) more than anything else, but I HIGHLY doubt that playing a few games against Koreans very once in a while is going to make any scene more skillful.
That being said, I'd like it if Koreans had more chances to play in international leagues, if only because I dont wake up in time for Korean leagues and I miss it. 
EDIT: Would be cool to have some sort of WCS sponsored practice league to encourage more of that, some sort of weekly league or something like Olimoleague but mini-Blizzcon with certain players from certain regions rotating weekly. Kinda like the new ShoutCraft monthly.
I dunno, ass pull idea, I really would love to see more coordinated practice between regions though.
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On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo.
If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get.
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On September 12 2016 09:55 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo. If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get.
In 2013/14 foreigners had the ability to practice with koreans, at least the europeans.
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On September 12 2016 09:55 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo. If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get.
Which is now perfectly countered by Byun. And Solar(s/o to IA and Toodming). I remember whinebow saying that he didn't practice HOTS because he didn't have "good" practice partners. Great attitude. I love how foreigners are disrespected even by their own kind.
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On September 12 2016 10:17 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 09:55 Parrek wrote:On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo. If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get. Which is now perfectly countered by Byun. And Solar(s/o to IA and Toodming). I remember whinebow saying that he didn't practice HOTS because he didn't have "good" practice partners. Great attitude. I love how foreigners are disrespected even by their own kind. P.S. Neeb goes to fucking COLLEGE and still manages to be the top Toss in the foreign scene. If a guy who has to commit 12+ hours studying every day does better than a full time gamer, its time to start thinking what's wrong.
Well if you think that something is wrong with the attitude of TLs own programer team. i suggest you apply as a coach or as a player. Must be easy for you to trash these guys since they are not trying.
Come on...get off your high horse and show some love. Neeb is in some sense like Stephano. We dont see these type of players quite often. Most pro gamers i follow are really hard working from my point of view and i dont follow any korean player.
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On September 12 2016 10:29 cutler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 10:17 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 09:55 Parrek wrote:On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo. If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get. Which is now perfectly countered by Byun. And Solar(s/o to IA and Toodming). I remember whinebow saying that he didn't practice HOTS because he didn't have "good" practice partners. Great attitude. I love how foreigners are disrespected even by their own kind. P.S. Neeb goes to fucking COLLEGE and still manages to be the top Toss in the foreign scene. If a guy who has to commit 12+ hours studying every day does better than a full time gamer, its time to start thinking what's wrong. Well if you think that something is wrong with the attitude of TLs own programer team. i suggest you apply as a coach or as a player. Must be easy for you to trash these guys since they are not trying. Come on...get off your high horse and show some love. Neeb is in some sense like Stephano. We dont see these type of players quite often. Most pro gamers i follow are really hard working from my point of view and i dont follow any korean player.
Wait how is Neeb like Stephano?
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On September 12 2016 10:29 cutler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 10:17 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 09:55 Parrek wrote:On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo. If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get. Which is now perfectly countered by Byun. And Solar(s/o to IA and Toodming). I remember whinebow saying that he didn't practice HOTS because he didn't have "good" practice partners. Great attitude. I love how foreigners are disrespected even by their own kind. P.S. Neeb goes to fucking COLLEGE and still manages to be the top Toss in the foreign scene. If a guy who has to commit 12+ hours studying every day does better than a full time gamer, its time to start thinking what's wrong. Well if you think that something is wrong with the attitude of TLs own programer team. i suggest you apply as a coach or as a player. Must be easy for you to trash these guys since they are not trying. Come on...get off your high horse and show some love. Neeb is in some sense like Stephano. We dont see these type of players quite often. Most pro gamers i follow are really hard working from my point of view and i dont follow any korean player.
Deleted quote bc I don't know what kind of college neeb goes to and thus it might not be super commitment. Nevertheless, Neeb's skill level is apparent. "We don't see these type of players quite often." Exactly my point. And those are the players who win tourneys. Not welfare bred players who whine about "we deserve a chance too"
Idk if Major, Whinebow, uThermal are TL players btw? There was also this super fat protoss (I don't remember his name, just that he was obese. Sorry I had to make a degrading comment). He made it sound like he was gonna win everything as soon as the koreans were gone lmao. I haven't seen him even qualify for anything yet.
New edit) I think his ID started with a D, and he fought with avilo or something on youtube. That's the most i remember him. I'll try to look him up.
Super edit) found him. Name is desrow.
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On September 12 2016 10:33 Phredxor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 10:29 cutler wrote:On September 12 2016 10:17 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 09:55 Parrek wrote:On September 12 2016 09:39 RCCar wrote:
Progamers used to say that they fell in a slump when they practiced with Flash, they just forgot how to win- flash was that good. So was Flash avoided by everybody? No, he was constantly challenged by eberybody, to get the experience of losing vs the best Terran.
When FanTaSy first entered the SKT1 team house, he said he practiced against Canata. He couldn't touch a single supply depot. FanTaSy's initial progamer goals was to kill a supply depot vs Canata.
Ironic, isn't it? One of the world's finest, steamrolled to a pulp.
So did FanTaSy retire out of demotivation? No. He had the fucking grit to stay in the scene, to fight, to be a star. And he became the best star that ever existed in the universe imo.
There were probably countless practice partners like FanTaSy, but stayed irrelevant forever, just faded away like fireflies. Were they lazy? Not really, they just didn't have a certain "thing" necessary to be relevant.
Remember what Genius said way back when?
"To be the top in anything, you have to possess a certain genius."
uThermal needs to reevaluate himself on whether he has the genius to prevail in an actual competitive scene. He has a bigger mouth them he should right now imo. If Koreans were practicing with the foreigners and contributing to the scene, it wouldn't be much of an issue. The problem is that even the foreigners who have the potential and genius to shine often get crushed long before they have a chance. Fantasy having a goal to kill a supply depot is great, but that also shows something the foreign scene had no opportunity to do which is practice vs the best and be able to be supported while they grow into that top player. If Fantasy was told, okay, you get no support and go compete in GSL for your living, he'd almost certainly been unable to make it. That's what foreigners were like in the past. A foreigner could never be in a position like Fantasy as a practice partner for the world's finest because Korea won't accept them. They are forced to go their own way and survive without half the support Koreans get. Which is now perfectly countered by Byun. And Solar(s/o to IA and Toodming). I remember whinebow saying that he didn't practice HOTS because he didn't have "good" practice partners. Great attitude. I love how foreigners are disrespected even by their own kind. P.S. Neeb goes to fucking COLLEGE and still manages to be the top Toss in the foreign scene. If a guy who has to commit 12+ hours studying every day does better than a full time gamer, its time to start thinking what's wrong. Well if you think that something is wrong with the attitude of TLs own programer team. i suggest you apply as a coach or as a player. Must be easy for you to trash these guys since they are not trying. Come on...get off your high horse and show some love. Neeb is in some sense like Stephano. We dont see these type of players quite often. Most pro gamers i follow are really hard working from my point of view and i dont follow any korean player. Wait how is Neeb like Stephano?
both are insanely talented.
also I'm sure foreigners aren't lazy and practice hard but koreans just practice harder and that's why they are better.
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I think this all boils down to quantity vs. quality of practice
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On September 12 2016 10:44 Zambrah wrote:
I think this all boils down to quantity vs. quality of practice
That only works if Koreans are super lazy but have the best practice partners while foreigners practice 15 hours a day but just ladder. Oh wait....
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No, it only works if both parties practice a great deal, but one party is not only practicing a great deal, but getting a great deal of high quality practice.
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On September 12 2016 10:57 Zambrah wrote:
No, it only works if both parties practice a great deal, but one party is not only practicing a great deal, but getting a great deal of high quality practice.
That would be just quality difference.
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On September 12 2016 10:59 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 10:57 Zambrah wrote:
No, it only works if both parties practice a great deal, but one party is not only practicing a great deal, but getting a great deal of high quality practice. That would be just quality difference.
Yes, and this difference in practice quality, not practice quantity, is why Koreans are better at StarCraft.
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On September 12 2016 11:00 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 10:59 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 10:57 Zambrah wrote:
No, it only works if both parties practice a great deal, but one party is not only practicing a great deal, but getting a great deal of high quality practice. That would be just quality difference. Yes, and this difference in practice quality, not practice quantity, is why Koreans are better at StarCraft.
So foreigners should shut their mouths about how Korean zergs are inferior amright? Half of foreigners say one thing while the other half says another. Its almost funny
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On September 12 2016 11:05 RCCar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 11:00 Zambrah wrote:On September 12 2016 10:59 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 10:57 Zambrah wrote:
No, it only works if both parties practice a great deal, but one party is not only practicing a great deal, but getting a great deal of high quality practice. That would be just quality difference. Yes, and this difference in practice quality, not practice quantity, is why Koreans are better at StarCraft. So foreigners should shut their mouths about how Korean zergs are inferior amright?
What does that have to do with anything
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On September 12 2016 11:05 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2016 11:05 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 11:00 Zambrah wrote:On September 12 2016 10:59 RCCar wrote:On September 12 2016 10:57 Zambrah wrote:
No, it only works if both parties practice a great deal, but one party is not only practicing a great deal, but getting a great deal of high quality practice. That would be just quality difference. Yes, and this difference in practice quality, not practice quantity, is why Koreans are better at StarCraft. So foreigners should shut their mouths about how Korean zergs are inferior amright? What does that have to do with anything
1. We are improving by playing amongst each other. Koreans are too strong. We don't learn anything from playing vs them.
-> so are you inferior to Koreans?
1-2. but Korean Zergs are worse than foreign Zergs
-> so can we get rid of region lock?
1-3. No, because then we gonna get knocked out in Ro 32!
-> so are you implying that you guys are not yet up to Korean level?
1-4. But Korean Zergs are still weaker than foreign Zergs
???
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EPT
