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LotV Design Changes announced - Page 42

Forum Index > SC2 General
907 CommentsPost a Reply
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eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
August 19 2016 16:06 GMT
#821
On August 19 2016 23:36 ROOTFayth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 19 2016 22:38 Creager wrote:
On August 19 2016 21:32 Tuczniak wrote:
On August 19 2016 14:11 Thaniri wrote:
The reason I decided to post that is to whine about queens more than anything. I don't think infestor broodlord for TvZ would be all that bad if zerg was vulnerable in the first 12 minutes of the game.
This is classical "don't let they get there" which is terrible game design. The game should be winnable at all points. The queen patch was necessary. It was necessary for zerg to be able compete in midgame. Whether the game continued in fun way or turtling is completely unrelated to the patch. If zerg didn't have unbeatable lategame and had strong midgame, the queen patch would called good. It's funny that some people still consider queen the cause.

Btw good points TT1 and Destruction.


Well, a thing most people like to forget is that Zerg players didn't manage their creep very well back then and thus couldn't see an attack coming as early as they could later on when 4-6 Queen play was promoted due to the patch.

creep spread was buffed man.... at the end of hots or during lotv beta I'm not sure

I think they made creep spread and recede faster in the LotV beta
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Arnstein
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway3381 Posts
August 19 2016 16:16 GMT
#822
Can't wait to try this!
rsol in response to the dragoon voice being heard in SCII: dragoon ai reaches new lows: wanders into wrong game
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17149 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-19 16:36:30
August 19 2016 16:27 GMT
#823
On August 20 2016 00:24 ROOTFayth wrote:
good job on mentionning the very few players who did not quit haha, want me to list those who quit? it feels like you're being a bit delusional at this point, we all want starcraft 2 to be better, for more people to play it.... you clearly stated you don't give a crap if players don't enjoy the game, what you care about is enjoying watching those games


i've quit playing SC2 at least 30 times in the past 6 years. when i get bored i quit. i don't think there is any magic formula Blizzard can come up with to make me never get bored. People on here make it sound like Blizzard owes them a lifetime of non-stop entertainment because they spent $140. They don't. Taking this attitude i'm a happier player. David Kim does not owe me happiness. That's up to me. For me the game is a hobby and when i get bored i just play something else.

Pros sign on for turning their hobby into a job. If you have a relative in the NHL, MLB, NBA or NFL. Or even in the dNBA, MiLB, or AHL you'll know how that goes. YOu are a piece of meat and a vehicle for the club owners to make cash. Lots and lots of players love their game as a hobby and hate it as a job.

go on national TV and tell the world that you hate your job and all it entails. See how fast you get signed as a free agent after you are fired. A very large # of these pro players bullshit about loving the game and the league. They have to.. their livelihood depends on it.

to all those pros who hate the MLB, NHL, NFL and GSL.
"Get a haircut and get a real job". George Thorogood, 1993.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
August 19 2016 16:40 GMT
#824
On August 20 2016 00:25 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2016 00:24 ROOTFayth wrote:
good job on mentionning the very few players who did not quit haha, want me to list those who quit? it feels like you're being a bit delusional at this point, we all want starcraft 2 to be better, for more people to play it.... you clearly stated you don't give a crap if players don't enjoy the game, what you care about is enjoying watching those games


No because as I mentioned before, I don't care about them.

edit: In what way am I delusional? And I never said I don't care if players don't enjoy the game. I just don't think your idea that players will quit in droves will happen. If I am wrong, and these changes Blizzard implements will be the downfall of SC2 due to no one playing, than you can hold it over me until forever.

But until then, try to keep an open mind to these changes. Don't dismiss them because SC2 is too volatile; isn't BW; doesn't focus on macro; or whatever personal reason you have. And if you truly want to have an effect on it's development, play the test map. Give Blizzard feedback and let them know how you feel about the changes. Just don't try to lobby for changes that will never happen (e.g. back to BW)

I'm not dismissing any changes I'm just hoping for even more changes that will possibly make SC2 a bit less volatile, like removing tankivacs is one of them
RichardNPL
Profile Joined November 2015
185 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-19 17:02:01
August 19 2016 17:01 GMT
#825
LF ppl to play the balance test maps. add me up easyrolling#1612 battle net id
NA PLat Diamond
brickrd
Profile Blog Joined March 2014
United States4894 Posts
August 19 2016 17:45 GMT
#826
On August 20 2016 01:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
i've quit playing SC2 at least 30 times in the past 6 years. when i get bored i quit. i don't think there is any magic formula Blizzard can come up with to make me never get bored. People on here make it sound like Blizzard owes them a lifetime of non-stop entertainment because they spent $140. They don't. Taking this attitude i'm a happier player. David Kim does not owe me happiness. That's up to me. For me the game is a hobby and when i get bored i just play something else.

this is like my favorite post ever on TL
TL+ Member
emc
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3088 Posts
August 19 2016 18:05 GMT
#827
lol, the terran player complaining about how difficult it is to make come backs when he's had OP MULE's for 2 expansions
Adreaver
Profile Joined February 2016
26 Posts
August 19 2016 18:31 GMT
#828
Proposed fix for Swarm Host:

100/75, zero supply.

While burrowed, auto spawns Locusts on the current CD. Able to manually spawn Locusts when not burrowed. Locusts cost 25 minerals/2 supply.

Net result - Swarm Host acts as a mobile Hatchery. Able to siege enemy bases and reinforce quickly. No supply wasted when Locusts are on cooldown. No locusts available when at 200/200 supply. Able to use Locusts to quickly remax an army in combat, at the cost of delaying standard macro production.
Nathanias
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States290 Posts
August 19 2016 18:45 GMT
#829
On August 17 2016 16:43 Vanadiel wrote:
I did watched nathanias stream for a bit, in one in particular he did not crossed the map once in the first 12 minutes and had 6 or 7 CCs, while the Zerg could not do anything against it and had no hope to put pressure. Roach seemed completely useless and hydra / infestor while hoping for good neural parasite seemed to be the only non Hive tech to survive when the mech army push. In general I try to keep an open mind and hope to be proven wrong, but it was a lot of turtle and boring play to me.


I have played less than 10 TvZs on this map, maybe 30 games total. It is very different than any form of mech I have played vs Zerg in the last 6 years, so yes I'm going to be a bit slower while I work out the kinks. I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.
CommentatorNever give up, Never surrender
Haukinger
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany131 Posts
August 19 2016 18:46 GMT
#830
On August 20 2016 03:31 Adreaver wrote:

zero supply


That. Not only for swarm hosts, just for all units for all races. Until maxed, supply doesn't mean anything at all, and at 200/200 it just serves as catch-up feature. Same for upgrades, no need to stop at +3.
Lexender
Profile Joined September 2013
Mexico2655 Posts
August 19 2016 18:57 GMT
#831
On August 20 2016 03:45 Nathanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2016 16:43 Vanadiel wrote:
I did watched nathanias stream for a bit, in one in particular he did not crossed the map once in the first 12 minutes and had 6 or 7 CCs, while the Zerg could not do anything against it and had no hope to put pressure. Roach seemed completely useless and hydra / infestor while hoping for good neural parasite seemed to be the only non Hive tech to survive when the mech army push. In general I try to keep an open mind and hope to be proven wrong, but it was a lot of turtle and boring play to me.


I have played less than 10 TvZs on this map, maybe 30 games total. It is very different than any form of mech I have played vs Zerg in the last 6 years, so yes I'm going to be a bit slower while I work out the kinks. I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.


Where you playing with people you knew? Because if you were searching for open games chances are the majority of the games your opponents were also way below your skill level.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
August 19 2016 18:58 GMT
#832
On August 20 2016 01:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2016 00:24 ROOTFayth wrote:
good job on mentionning the very few players who did not quit haha, want me to list those who quit? it feels like you're being a bit delusional at this point, we all want starcraft 2 to be better, for more people to play it.... you clearly stated you don't give a crap if players don't enjoy the game, what you care about is enjoying watching those games


i've quit playing SC2 at least 30 times in the past 6 years. when i get bored i quit. i don't think there is any magic formula Blizzard can come up with to make me never get bored. People on here make it sound like Blizzard owes them a lifetime of non-stop entertainment because they spent $140. They don't. Taking this attitude i'm a happier player. David Kim does not owe me happiness. That's up to me. For me the game is a hobby and when i get bored i just play something else.

Pros sign on for turning their hobby into a job. If you have a relative in the NHL, MLB, NBA or NFL. Or even in the dNBA, MiLB, or AHL you'll know how that goes. YOu are a piece of meat and a vehicle for the club owners to make cash. Lots and lots of players love their game as a hobby and hate it as a job.

go on national TV and tell the world that you hate your job and all it entails. See how fast you get signed as a free agent after you are fired. A very large # of these pro players bullshit about loving the game and the league. They have to.. their livelihood depends on it.

to all those pros who hate the MLB, NHL, NFL and GSL.
"Get a haircut and get a real job". George Thorogood, 1993.

What is it about the new patch that you hate so much?
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 19 2016 19:24 GMT
#833
TvT feels better now.

TvZ is still awkward 25 games in. TvP I'm still finding people to play.

I really hope for a second iteration away from blink DTs and hydra-core armies with porting infestors defending harass for incredible late midgame eco. There's potential here to go in a good direction.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
VHbb
Profile Joined October 2014
689 Posts
August 19 2016 19:47 GMT
#834
On August 20 2016 03:45 Nathanias wrote:
I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.


Big big quote, I 100% agree
My life for Aiur !
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
August 19 2016 20:01 GMT
#835
On August 20 2016 03:45 Nathanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2016 16:43 Vanadiel wrote:
I did watched nathanias stream for a bit, in one in particular he did not crossed the map once in the first 12 minutes and had 6 or 7 CCs, while the Zerg could not do anything against it and had no hope to put pressure. Roach seemed completely useless and hydra / infestor while hoping for good neural parasite seemed to be the only non Hive tech to survive when the mech army push. In general I try to keep an open mind and hope to be proven wrong, but it was a lot of turtle and boring play to me.


I have played less than 10 TvZs on this map, maybe 30 games total. It is very different than any form of mech I have played vs Zerg in the last 6 years, so yes I'm going to be a bit slower while I work out the kinks. I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.


Of course, only time will tell ! It's more a "fear" that I have rather than a prediction. I might be a minority but I really love the game as it is right now, and I have a really bad experience playing, and watching MechVzerg. Maybe turtle play won't be viable at pro level, but if I face it every TvZ in my ladder experience...
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17149 Posts
August 19 2016 20:54 GMT
#836
On August 20 2016 03:58 Sapphire.lux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2016 01:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On August 20 2016 00:24 ROOTFayth wrote:
good job on mentionning the very few players who did not quit haha, want me to list those who quit? it feels like you're being a bit delusional at this point, we all want starcraft 2 to be better, for more people to play it.... you clearly stated you don't give a crap if players don't enjoy the game, what you care about is enjoying watching those games


i've quit playing SC2 at least 30 times in the past 6 years. when i get bored i quit. i don't think there is any magic formula Blizzard can come up with to make me never get bored. People on here make it sound like Blizzard owes them a lifetime of non-stop entertainment because they spent $140. They don't. Taking this attitude i'm a happier player. David Kim does not owe me happiness. That's up to me. For me the game is a hobby and when i get bored i just play something else.

Pros sign on for turning their hobby into a job. If you have a relative in the NHL, MLB, NBA or NFL. Or even in the dNBA, MiLB, or AHL you'll know how that goes. YOu are a piece of meat and a vehicle for the club owners to make cash. Lots and lots of players love their game as a hobby and hate it as a job.

go on national TV and tell the world that you hate your job and all it entails. See how fast you get signed as a free agent after you are fired. A very large # of these pro players bullshit about loving the game and the league. They have to.. their livelihood depends on it.

to all those pros who hate the MLB, NHL, NFL and GSL.
"Get a haircut and get a real job". George Thorogood, 1993.

What is it about the new patch that you hate so much?


i'm happy with it... and i'm happy with the non-ladder things they've done as well.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9408 Posts
August 19 2016 20:59 GMT
#837
On August 20 2016 05:01 Vanadiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2016 03:45 Nathanias wrote:
On August 17 2016 16:43 Vanadiel wrote:
I did watched nathanias stream for a bit, in one in particular he did not crossed the map once in the first 12 minutes and had 6 or 7 CCs, while the Zerg could not do anything against it and had no hope to put pressure. Roach seemed completely useless and hydra / infestor while hoping for good neural parasite seemed to be the only non Hive tech to survive when the mech army push. In general I try to keep an open mind and hope to be proven wrong, but it was a lot of turtle and boring play to me.


I have played less than 10 TvZs on this map, maybe 30 games total. It is very different than any form of mech I have played vs Zerg in the last 6 years, so yes I'm going to be a bit slower while I work out the kinks. I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.


Of course, only time will tell ! It's more a "fear" that I have rather than a prediction. I might be a minority but I really love the game as it is right now, and I have a really bad experience playing, and watching MechVzerg. Maybe turtle play won't be viable at pro level, but if I face it every TvZ in my ladder experience...


Watch some ZvT late game BW to see what mech can be if done correct.
ilililililililiii
Profile Joined October 2013
United States93 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-19 21:03:46
August 19 2016 21:03 GMT
#838
how many jobs out there can you really enjoy? Not many. How many people have time for hobbies? Not many. Id say something you can simply put up with is plenty for a profession.
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
August 19 2016 21:16 GMT
#839
On August 20 2016 05:59 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2016 05:01 Vanadiel wrote:
On August 20 2016 03:45 Nathanias wrote:
On August 17 2016 16:43 Vanadiel wrote:
I did watched nathanias stream for a bit, in one in particular he did not crossed the map once in the first 12 minutes and had 6 or 7 CCs, while the Zerg could not do anything against it and had no hope to put pressure. Roach seemed completely useless and hydra / infestor while hoping for good neural parasite seemed to be the only non Hive tech to survive when the mech army push. In general I try to keep an open mind and hope to be proven wrong, but it was a lot of turtle and boring play to me.


I have played less than 10 TvZs on this map, maybe 30 games total. It is very different than any form of mech I have played vs Zerg in the last 6 years, so yes I'm going to be a bit slower while I work out the kinks. I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.


Of course, only time will tell ! It's more a "fear" that I have rather than a prediction. I might be a minority but I really love the game as it is right now, and I have a really bad experience playing, and watching MechVzerg. Maybe turtle play won't be viable at pro level, but if I face it every TvZ in my ladder experience...


Watch some ZvT late game BW to see what mech can be if done correct.


BW is completely another game, with other units, other stats, other IA, other UI, other pathing. I find it irrelevant to compare it to Starcraft2.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9408 Posts
August 19 2016 22:41 GMT
#840
On August 20 2016 06:16 Vanadiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2016 05:59 Hider wrote:
On August 20 2016 05:01 Vanadiel wrote:
On August 20 2016 03:45 Nathanias wrote:
On August 17 2016 16:43 Vanadiel wrote:
I did watched nathanias stream for a bit, in one in particular he did not crossed the map once in the first 12 minutes and had 6 or 7 CCs, while the Zerg could not do anything against it and had no hope to put pressure. Roach seemed completely useless and hydra / infestor while hoping for good neural parasite seemed to be the only non Hive tech to survive when the mech army push. In general I try to keep an open mind and hope to be proven wrong, but it was a lot of turtle and boring play to me.


I have played less than 10 TvZs on this map, maybe 30 games total. It is very different than any form of mech I have played vs Zerg in the last 6 years, so yes I'm going to be a bit slower while I work out the kinks. I think it's WAY too early if you haven't played at least 100 games in a matchup to say that you think you understand any of the real consequences of these changes.


Of course, only time will tell ! It's more a "fear" that I have rather than a prediction. I might be a minority but I really love the game as it is right now, and I have a really bad experience playing, and watching MechVzerg. Maybe turtle play won't be viable at pro level, but if I face it every TvZ in my ladder experience...


Watch some ZvT late game BW to see what mech can be if done correct.


BW is completely another game, with other units, other stats, other IA, other UI, other pathing. I find it irrelevant to compare it to Starcraft2.


You can get a sense of what positional units can be if the game is designed correctly. Also if you think pathing is what makes positional play with lots of army trading viable your very wrong. You watch other games, you figure out the differences and try and identify the factors that makes for a better/worse gameplay.

That's how you get better at understanding game design. Just saying "X is different, therefore we cannot learn from it in anyway" is pretty dumb.
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