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On July 16 2016 04:52 Wrath wrote:
Too much talk about maps. Always want exciting new stuff. Always want random stuff. Always new... etc. Take a lesson from BW. People play mostly FS because it is the most standard map with the lest bullshit. Not huge forced macro map, not small rush map. People want an arena that is balanced so the players can display their skill. What stands out is the cool play, micro and strategies not abusing some factors for specific map that will be history after the map gets change.
Just how many millennia will it take them to get this?
Maps and players both contribute to a healthy metagame. If you think it's only one or the other that's important, then I suggest that others don't listen to you.
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Yet again this community already expecting patch days after summit happened...
I just don't get year after year the amount of tixicity and negativity is overwhelming for new players aswell... which is a huge part about it.
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Community gets and update and is disappointed that it isn't a comprehensive all encompassing document outlining all topics covered, timelines of action, apologies for prior bad design choices, and an invitation directly from David Kim who wants your specific help.
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On July 16 2016 08:45 IMSupervisor wrote:
Community gets and update and is disappointed that it isn't a comprehensive all encompassing document outlining all topics covered, timelines of action, apologies for prior bad design choices, and an invitation directly from David Kim who wants your specific help.
How do you justify this comment exactly given this update is pretty much the same thing as a regular community update and the (mind boggling) only thing they got on balance was Warp Prisms are too durable? O__o
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Nerf the warp prism so that it has 60 shield, 100 hp. This allows a widow mine to one shot a warp prism.
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On July 16 2016 08:48 Beelzebub1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2016 08:45 IMSupervisor wrote:
Community gets and update and is disappointed that it isn't a comprehensive all encompassing document outlining all topics covered, timelines of action, apologies for prior bad design choices, and an invitation directly from David Kim who wants your specific help. How do you justify this comment exactly given this update is pretty much the same thing as a regular community update and the (mind boggling) only thing they got on balance was Warp Prisms are too durable? O__o
They said that warp prism was the only unanimous balance issue. That means not everyone agreed on what other balance issues are. Knowing that and taking the approach of letting the players figure it out means they aren't moving to address things random community people think are the real problems. I think they're doing a good job moving as deliberately slowly as they are.
Give it some time and we'll see what else was brought up the summit.
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Ok guys another balance update lets see: nothing about liberators, nothing about ultra 82 armor, but hey, what if we nerf warp prism, now that queens can snipe them all?
I lost all hope on you guys. I'm very disappointed. At least we're gonna get some ramp fixing I hope.
Seven blessings to all.
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On July 16 2016 03:17 MockHamill wrote:
I do not even know what to say.
It is like 10 engineers are locked in a room for 2 days discussing the engine problems of a car and then concluding that the car's default colour should be changed from light blue to dark blue.
this so much. Blizzard continues to avoid the real issues while simultaneously offer unnecessary band-aid fixes.
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I'm hoping they are adressing tempests and ultras soon.
don't know why they want to nerf warpprisms. Bad change imo.
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Glad they are thinking about a nerf to warp prisms. Their move speed is absolutely ridiculous @_@.
I would really love it if ultra armor was nerfed by one in exchange for a change to medivac boost in some way or form. But I think that medivac boost is one of the balance team's untouchables  .
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For all the people complaining about the summit "only talking about balance", I'm going to suggest that they didn't only talk about balance at the summit, but that balance and maps are what they wanted to mention in the community update. As non-disclosure agreements were involved in attending the summit, I would posit that Blizzard has even more more in store for the game but don't feel like publicly announcing things beyond balance and maps at this time.
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this is what you get when you put people ina room who are not programmers and game designers. Blizzard have never failed to deliver, everything they do is quality. what can a bunch of kids really say who just happen to press the buttons or the macros they set up for them really efficiently. I can imagine when they actually said, "whats wrong with the game" it was like the black lives matter movement when they were asked. "What do you want?" and not a quantifiable and measurable suggestion was made. As a game designer myself i could only wish to be given the chance to work at blizz, but even i have to admit i dont think im on that level
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On July 16 2016 14:03 beheamoth wrote:
this is what you get when you put people ina room who are not programmers and game designers. Blizzard have never failed to deliver, everything they do is quality. what can a bunch of kids really say who just happen to press the buttons or the macros they set up for them really efficiently. I can imagine when they actually said, "whats wrong with the game" it was like the black lives matter movement when they were asked. "What do you want?" and not a quantifiable and measurable suggestion was made. As a game designer myself i could only wish to be given the chance to work at blizz, but even i have to admit i dont think im on that level
Had a good laugh about that. Is that why so many players leave the game? Or that every new patch always (or mostly) brings bugfixes but at the same time introduce tons of other bugs (not also in SC 2 but also for their other games, like HS just had a new patch a few days ago followed by 2 (!) hotfixes that did exactly what i described) ? Or that the game is still poorly optimised?
Sure bugs can happen from time to time but if you call this quality than you have never seen real quality.
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On July 16 2016 04:38 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
"some of those who attended have reached out to say that the Queen buff is working so well that a Warp Prism change may not be necessary from the ZvP angle."
Glad ZvP will be fine, unlike TvP. But i guess thats okay. Instead of reverting the queenrange and keeping the "stimmed" spore and reduce the warprism's health so all races benefit from it would be too much logic. The late game for zerg has been buffed even more with the range, killed a lot of builds for terran. But thats seems fine. Warprims pickup range is still stupid and is incredible annoying for the defender and feels gimmicky. The warprism is already a fast unit on its own to be annoying enough, for JUST MINERALS.
*Tempest still 4 supply
*nydus that cant be killed
*vipers hardcounter the counter to vipers
*adept shade cooldown starts directly, and not after the ability is done like with every other unit in the game
*after the shade it resets the attack timer as well
*Stasis ward, a free spell, doesnt expire in the game.
*mech still crap
*etc. etc.
8 Months since the release of LOTV, and we still discussing the same things over and over again.
Pardon me but isn't Medivac Ignite Afterburners the same with regards to the cooldown starting as the ability is activated and not after it is over?
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It's impossible to recruit friends to play sc2 because new players are simply so bad. It's not fun to get your scvs wiped out in 2 seconds because a good player had the perfect harass unit and could micro the crap out of it. I really think the community is suffering because the game had turned away casual players from everything except the arcade. My 2 cents The question you should be asking is, why the system matches your "new player who is simply so bad" with a "good player with perfect harass and micro". There is matchmaking. if the new player is a scrub, he will be playing against other scrubs.
The question that I would ask is where the hell are tutorials? How do you expect people to learn using in-game sources?
Learn the game playing through campaign? Well, then there should be only 2 difficulty levels - normal and hard. In this day and age, a bad player will choose easy mode and still learn nothing.
Also, new player has no chance to learn basics of race other then one from the most recent expansion. If you want to learn basics of playing Terran, but only got interested in SC2 this year - sorry, you have to spend even more money to get Terran expansion etc.
Personally, I think the reason for the decline is the focus on micro and "cool moments ([...] come from worker harassment)".
Let's be honest, macro in SC2 doesn't take much speed or skill. To keep the skill ceiling high, focus has been moved to micro.
And while it works for top tier of play, where players have 2 seconds to spot Disruptor moving its Nova towards your army and those 2 seconds is enough to spot it on the minimap, center your view and move units away, in lower leagues, that is game ending damage.
The problem is that games end suddenly. 10-15 minutes of hard work, scouting, mind-games, harassing, trading etc. end in 5 second battle / skillshot spam from which you cannot recover and you know it's gg. Wins don't feel as rewarding and losses feel cheap and luck based.
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On July 16 2016 05:28 coolmiyo wrote:
starcraft summit summary:
Nerf Warp Prism drops by reducing Warp Prism HP/Shield
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These discussions were very interesting, because we noticed that even when someone started a conversation saying ‘X’ is a huge problem, others might ask the person how certain he or she is, and that person often replied by saying something like “yeah I really don’t know for certain right now.”
... they invited people who just wanted a free trip, delicious food and some holidays. they did nothing.
Unfortunately it does seem that is the case. I know people will give me shit for me saying i deserved an invite but...
I had a really good amount of topics/game balance/design that i could have contributed to a discussion with support for my arguments on things to be looked at that the player base wants fixed such as;
-8 armor ultra
-warp prism
-invincible nydus worm
-mech viability
-ling/bane/muta (reduce cost of burrow for burrow banes)
-tempest supply cost/stats issues
-air units of all 3 races in general being too dominant
-tankivac removal/tier 1 overlord drop removal/ravager to tier 2
-adept shades (make adept shade lose shields every time you shade to create a drawback to the ability)
-so many other things
Obviously if i were invited to a Community Summit like that i'd be able to back up my reasoning on why i think certain things are issues and i'd be able to propose multiple solutions to the issues. Rather than just say "yeah i really don't know for certain right now." Like why even invite these people?
I feel like i've been a contributor to the SC2 scene for a while and i'm one of the consistent SC2 streamers that has played 1000's of games of mech in every match-up and can articulate ideas well...pretty disappointed i was not invited yet others were.
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I think it would help if we can watch tournaments and other players live while playing in the main client. Just like DotA 2. We can watch our friends while they ladder but of course with delay so coaching and cheating will not be valid. SC2 Feels so alone imo, it would help a lot if we can watch other people's games at will so we can socialize more and guide one another. Its so hard to guide new players in SC2, The only way you can watch how they play is by downloading their replay or playing in a lobby. Its better if we can watch them while they ladder and watch tourneys ingame.
Sorry I can't explain it that well but people who play dota2 can understand, That way its easier for people to watch tournaments and its faster than loading twitch etc etc.
Also as stated by other posters, its very hard to teach new players as there are no guide that is accessible. I hope there is some database of "Basic" Build orders that people can follow so that they would not be lost, I've had many friends who were interested in playing SC2 Multiplayer but gave up because the basics were so hard to grasp.
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On July 16 2016 17:20 Ace1123 wrote:
I think it would help if we can watch tournaments and other players live while playing in the main client. Just like DotA 2. We can watch our friends while they ladder but of course with delay so coaching and cheating will not be valid. SC2 Feels so alone imo, it would help a lot if we can watch other people's games at will so we can socialize more and guide one another. Its so hard to guide new players in SC2, The only way you can watch how they play is by downloading their replay or playing in a lobby. Its better if we can watch them while they ladder and watch tourneys ingame.
Sorry I can't explain it that well but people who play dota2 can understand, That way its easier for people to watch tournaments and its faster than loading twitch etc etc.
Also as stated by other posters, its very hard to teach new players as there are no guide that is accessible. I hope there is some database of "Basic" Build orders that people can follow so that they would not be lost, I've had many friends who were interested in playing SC2 Multiplayer but gave up because the basics were so hard to grasp.
I've been wondering the same as well.
How does a free to play game have such superior spectator options than a 40 euro game that also markets itself as the most 'leet' competitive esport?
SC2 should have been the game innovating with the spectator experience instead of dota, but it seems the game just doesn't bring in enough revenue for blizz to care about such major changes.
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Nothing about mech... again. We can see less and less T in the foreign scene, why? Cause now if u play for fun,not to become pro,its so boring to play T,u dont have diversity of compositions, always the same open,only 1 and nerfed new unit in lotv (cyclone its a joke), etc etc.. playing T now its like having continuous Deja-Vu's.
Sorry4myEnglish
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EPT
