Life's appeal for more lenient sentencing was dismissed by the Changwon District Court. The former WCS champion had been found guilty of receiving bribes to fix StarCraft matches at an earlier trial in April (related news post). The Changwon court upheld the original sentence of 18 months imprisonment suspended by three years, with a 70,000,000 won fine.
Life argued that he had already been jailed for two months following the charges, and had been permanently banned from progaming by KeSPA.
The court found that Life's contriteness, and his status as a minor during the time of the match-fixing, were mitigating factors. However, given the large amount of money Life received to match-fix, as well as the considerable damage he inflicted upon esports' credibility, the court determined that the original sentence was appropriate.
The court also dismissed similar appeals from BBoongBBoong and Enough related to their sentencing in match-fixing related crimes.
Dont do the crime if you can't do the time, I was and will remain a forever Life fan but the point is that he got too greedy and he will pay the price.
and what happens to the people or entities that approached a minor to bribe him?
does no one see that the real problem here are the people taking advantage of minors. hes just a kid, c'mon who as a kid would not accept a large amount of cash to throw a few games!
On July 14 2016 14:42 XiZeL wrote: and what happens to the people or entities that approached a minor to bribe him?
does no one see that the real problem here are the people taking advantage of minors. hes just a kid, c'mon who as a kid would not accept a large amount of cash to throw a few games!
Doesnt change he was not 14 but pretty close to being a legal adult so they figured he should have known better and the fact it was for the amount it was meant they couldn't just let it slide.
If this happened to maru in open gsl season 2 i dont think he would have been treated as harshly but its life, now, at this point in his career. Can't let it go.
He deserves every bit of it right now I just hope the rest of his life outside of progaming isn't hurt by this too much. He's still young and deserves a chance at a good life once all this is over.
On July 14 2016 14:42 XiZeL wrote: and what happens to the people or entities that approached a minor to bribe him?
does no one see that the real problem here are the people taking advantage of minors. hes just a kid, c'mon who as a kid would not accept a large amount of cash to throw a few games!
Doesnt change he was not 14 but pretty close to being a legal adult so they figured he should have known better and the fact it was for the amount it was meant they couldn't just let it slide.
If this happened to maru in open gsl season 2 i dont think he would have been treated as harshly but its life, now, at this point in his career. Can't let it go.
He deserves every bit of it right now I just hope the rest of his life outside of progaming isn't hurt by this too much. He's still young and deserves a chance at a good life once all this is over.
lol he won't get it, Korea is a witch hunt scene. I'm actually surprised most Korean SC fans are pretty chill about the matter.
Fact is Life is still 18 and under. People that age make stupid decisions whether we want to admit it or not and whether we say we "expect more". To be honest, what I hate most about the whole situation is that he listened to the briber. KesPa teams should have some sessions to discuss bribing and matchfixing to make sure it doesn't happen but I feel they don't do this or drill it into the players enough.
Life was in KT when he was approached about matchfixing. One of the biggest SC2 teams out there and he went with it. I would have expected a big name like KT to drill no-matchfixing into their players but I guess not.
Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
Anyone knows exactly how a suspended sentence works in this case? Is it suspended because of his age and he will actually be impriosoned after 3 years? Or this means he will not be imprisoned if he doesn't do anything illegal within a 3 years period?
On July 14 2016 16:13 insitelol wrote: Anyone knows exactly how a suspended sentence works in this case? Is it suspended because of his age and he will actually be impriosoned after 3 years? Or this means he will not be imprisoned if he doesn't do anything illegal within a 3 years period?
The later. He'll be on probation for 3 years, and if he breaks probation (by committing a crime or breaking whatever conditions the judge gave him) he'll have to serve the 18 months in prison.
On July 14 2016 16:12 TequilaMockingbird wrote: Man reading this opens up old wounds again... I had almost managed to forget... Why Life. Damn you. Why !!!
Ugh this. I'd forgotten, just recently got back into the game and *insert Batman sound effect here*. Such a waste.
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
You are rejected by universities in the US if you have any kind of criminal record or is it case by case?
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
You are rejected by universities in the US if you have any kind of criminal record or is it case by case?
Anecdotally I have more than a few friends with felonies who have been accepted into good 4 year programs so I don't think this is a black and white thing. It does make the job hunt harder, though.
On July 14 2016 17:19 Hadoken! wrote: I'm not good with laws. What does "18 months in jail, suspended for three years" mean?
If he commits any offenses in the next 3 years, or breaks any rules and regulations determined by the judge, he has to serve 18 months in jail. If he doesn't, he won't have to spend any more time in jail.
On July 14 2016 17:34 beentheredonethat wrote: Please change the title. I was so happy to read that the charges are dismissed and he's free to go when reality kicked in.
It doesn't say "charges dismissed" so it's not like the title is lying to you.
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
He would be exempted from military service (or, rejected) and divested of his right to vote during his time.(if the crime was committed before 2014).
Of course, he would get all the disadvantages you mentioned.
I've always enjoyed watching Life play and his play style was definitely one that could get anyone invested into SC2. It's sad to see someone of his caliber and influence go down in shame. I don't think Life should have an asterisk next to his accomplishment (titles, achievements, whatever you want to include in there) and what he's done but he should be used as a proving point that no programmer is safe from the wrath of the system when it comes to match-fixing.
Hopefully this will spark something from KeSPA and other teams to implement more oversight and educate their players about match-fixing. Then, I'm an optimist and always hoping for the best, so we'll see.
I'm going to miss watching Life vs. PartinG (yes, I know PartinG has been relatively absent from the scene, or to my knowledge he's been). I'll forever consider Life the best SC2 Zerg player, ever.
On July 14 2016 18:19 Zergiica wrote: and again gamers are punished but criminals that approched them aren't.
and again greatest zerg of his time goes down. something is in the swarm :/
really, this is so bad, there is so much money in gaming and games are played by kids without education or mentors. they are easy targets.
If you have read the threads about these match fixing scandals you should have noticed that the people that approached these progamers were punished as well. Iirc most of the people arrested weren't progamers themselves.
Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
On July 14 2016 14:48 BEZZiiE wrote: No matter what i still love you Life still the best zerg in my books! screw the haters, the court and KeSPA!
#FreeLIFE!
Indeed, fuck the haters who criticize Life's decision to throw games in order to get cash, damn KeSPA for conducting an investigation upon learning of such activities, and to hell with the court for giving a sentence based on the Korean criminal law.
On July 14 2016 19:12 Hularuns wrote: Life should stream SC2, learn English and just compete in foreign tournaments. He's banned by Kespa, not the world \o/
Except a foreign team isn't going to go anywhere near him because of the matchfixing. I highly doubt he'd get an athlete visa for the US with matchfixing in his criminal record.
On July 14 2016 19:12 Hularuns wrote: Life should stream SC2, learn English and just compete in foreign tournaments. He's banned by Kespa, not the world \o/
Most streaming platforms work with KeSPA and don't let match fixers stream.
On July 14 2016 19:59 WhosQuany wrote: So sad i used to think that he was one of the best but now you can never really be sure about it... imo he got what he deserved tbh
What? He took money to throw games, how would you even take money to fix a match so that you win it?
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
that's almost the same case everywhere, i think life's life is now done
On July 14 2016 14:42 XiZeL wrote: and what happens to the people or entities that approached a minor to bribe him?
does no one see that the real problem here are the people taking advantage of minors. hes just a kid, c'mon who as a kid would not accept a large amount of cash to throw a few games!
It's quite "funny" how harsch and pityless the court sentences are when the case involves money and big companies. When it's a minor no-name robbing, beating up, and sometimes even raping, another no-name, the sentence is usually far less severe.
On July 14 2016 21:03 SiroKO wrote: It's quite "funny" how harsch and pityless the court sentences are when the case involves money and big companies. When it's a minor no-name robbing, beating up, and sometimes even raping, another no-name, the sentence is usually far less severe.
Less harsh than probation and a fine? I think you are making things up
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
Most of what you're talking about are felony charges. You can have misdemeanors and be fine for the rest of your life. But for Life, if they classify it as a Felony, then yes, he would be royally screwed in the US. But it would also pertain to the seriousness of the crime as well. Match-fixing an online game wouldn't be taken as serious here as over there, so he could rebound if he came here.
match-fixing has got to be the dumbest thing to get conned into. you are getting too many people involved, eventually it's so easy for someone to rat. The 60k not worth all the BS and people have been caught in the past.....
just the three year probation alone, could he have made that 60k in that time? was it really worth a kespa ban for 60k??
Goes to show how easily kids can be manipulated, and how greedy...
I haven't followed SC2 in a bit, but is this the same Life that won Blizzcon like 2 years ago? The same Life that back in 2012 or 2013 when MLG was still a thing he won it over Flash?
On July 14 2016 22:22 sacrilegious wrote: I haven't followed SC2 in a bit, but is this the same Life that won Blizzcon like 2 years ago? The same Life that back in 2012 or 2013 when MLG was still a thing he won it over Flash?
Yeah it's the same bloke. He fixed 2 series by going 3-1 instead of potentially 3-0'ing some dudes, and then got slammed by KeSPA.
Some people suggest it's a bit of a problem in the infrastructure that he got paid more by gambling sites to throw than the champion of the tournament got paid to win.
On July 14 2016 21:47 lastprobeALIVE wrote: Goes to show how easily kids can be manipulated, and how greedy...
Not just kids mate, anyone can be manipulated when it's easy money to take. "Just throw this game and you will earn more in a day then you have in the last year" seems pretty easy, whats the harm is just tanking one game?
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
that's almost the same case everywhere, i think life's life is now done
Lets not get over dramatic, it is just one crime and a relatively minor one, I am guessing he still got a very healty bank acount for his age. He won't do prison it is just a fine
Most university are still going to accept him, the best one may not but the public one will at least look at it and in programs that don't make cut at the entrance, most of humam science, comunication, art and some administration programs he should be able to enter. He was not guilty of gun possession, rape or murder it was just illegal gambling.
Finding a good job is going to be a lot harder but it is very much douable, the offense is not that bad and he can always try to defends himself in interview blaming it on his age or the pression from the mob.
His life is not over at, he made it a lot more difficult that it needed to be but all and all a criminal record vs a 200k+ bank acount for a 18 years old his not that bad.
good thing they are destroying his life , because of the "damage he did" , just make him pay a fee.. instead of making 2 month of agonizing drama.. that surely did much more damage than if they shut their mouth and ask for a reasonable fee..
this shows how doing the right can damage way more , they did infinitely more damage , banning the best player in the world and byong , and making public the case , how does that helped the scene ? they did inmeasurable damage to the scene.. nobody woulda given a fuck if they didn't do this..
On July 14 2016 22:22 sacrilegious wrote: I haven't followed SC2 in a bit, but is this the same Life that won Blizzcon like 2 years ago? The same Life that back in 2012 or 2013 when MLG was still a thing he won it over Flash?
Yeah it's the same bloke. He fixed 2 series by going 3-1 instead of potentially 3-0'ing some dudes, and then got slammed by KeSPA.
Some people suggest it's a bit of a problem in the infrastructure that he got paid more by gambling sites to throw than the champion of the tournament got paid to win.
He seemed like really the next big player for years to come in the SC2 scene, only to throw it away for really short term gain. It also sucks that Blizzcon 2014 and all his other LAN wins are basically tainted (you might as well put a Barry Bonds * beside his achievements)
That said, I don't think some people on this thread should say he should never have a chance at life (no pun intended) again, for committing something seemingly and only unforgiveable in the competitive video game world
On July 14 2016 19:12 Hularuns wrote: Life should stream SC2, learn English and just compete in foreign tournaments. He's banned by Kespa, not the world \o/
Most streaming platforms work with KeSPA and don't let match fixers stream.
Which is good. We do not need match fixer on this scene.
On July 15 2016 00:31 iamkaokao wrote: good thing they are destroying his life , because of the "damage he did" , just make him pay a fee.. instead of making 2 month of agonizing drama.. that surely did much more damage than if they shut their mouth and ask for a reasonable fee..
this shows how doing the right can damage way more , they did infinitely more damage , banning the best player in the world and byong , and making public the case , how does that helped the scene ? they did inmeasurable damage to the scene.. nobody woulda given a fuck if they didn't do this..
I mean he did something illegal and the state of Korea punish him for it according to their law, what do you want them to do? The judge and policement don't care (or at least should not care) about the state of starcraft when they are working.
I guess Kespa could have not ban them, but the 2 month "drama" was just the judiary power working and taking his time. It was not Kespa who prosecuted Life it was the state of Korea since it was a criminal offense and not a civil offense, so no they could not ask for just a fee.
So is Life still in jail right now? That's what 18 month imprisonment means right? In my opinion, even though his crimes were atrocious and I can't forgive him for it, I don't think it deserves jail time. Jail is for people who are dangerous to society. He hurt a scene but never put anyone in harm.
On July 15 2016 01:18 Brutaxilos wrote: So is Life still in jail right now? That's what 18 month imprisonment means right? In my opinion, even though his crimes were atrocious and I can't forgive him for it, I don't think it deserves jail time. Jail is for people who are dangerous to society. He hurt a scene but never put anyone in harm.
Life was in jail (not prison) for around 2 months while things were being investigated and the trial was going on. He now has a suspended sentence which basically means he's on probation, and if he doesn't violate the probation any time in the next 3 years, then he won't have to do the 18 months imprisonment.
On July 15 2016 01:18 Brutaxilos wrote: So is Life still in jail right now? That's what 18 month imprisonment means right? In my opinion, even though his crimes were atrocious and I can't forgive him for it, I don't think it deserves jail time. Jail is for people who are dangerous to society. He hurt a scene but never put anyone in harm.
His sentence was suspended, so he doesn't have to go to jail unless he commits another crime.
On July 15 2016 00:31 iamkaokao wrote: good thing they are destroying his life , because of the "damage he did" , just make him pay a fee.. instead of making 2 month of agonizing drama.. that surely did much more damage than if they shut their mouth and ask for a reasonable fee..
this shows how doing the right can damage way more , they did infinitely more damage , banning the best player in the world and byong , and making public the case , how does that helped the scene ? they did inmeasurable damage to the scene.. nobody woulda given a fuck if they didn't do this..
I mean he did something illegal and the state of Korea punish him for it according to their law, what do you want them to do? The judge and policement don't care (or at least should not care) about the state of starcraft when they are working.
I guess Kespa could have not ban them, but the 2 month "drama" was just the judiary power working and taking his time. It was not Kespa who prosecuted Life it was the state of Korea since it was a criminal offense and not a civil offense, so no they could not ask for just a fee.
i think we all agree that he should be punished , im just saying just because one of the charges was the "damage done to the scene.." i thought it was ironic since this action pretty much destroyed sc2 and the whole zerg race not "literally" but did way more damage than it woulda been just with a fee , things like this happen in daily bases in any sport.. and they keep playing
On July 15 2016 01:18 Brutaxilos wrote: So is Life still in jail right now? That's what 18 month imprisonment means right? In my opinion, even though his crimes were atrocious and I can't forgive him for it, I don't think it deserves jail time. Jail is for people who are dangerous to society. He hurt a scene but never put anyone in harm.
Life was in jail (not prison) for around 2 months while things were being investigated and the trial was going on. He now has a suspended sentence which basically means he's on probation, and if he doesn't violate the probation any time in the next 3 years, then he won't have to do the 18 months imprisonment.
Alright then, I think that sentence is perfectly valid. Regardless of what he did, I still hope he can something to do with his life in the future. Even criminals should have a chance to integrate with society.
On July 15 2016 00:31 iamkaokao wrote: good thing they are destroying his life , because of the "damage he did" , just make him pay a fee.. instead of making 2 month of agonizing drama.. that surely did much more damage than if they shut their mouth and ask for a reasonable fee..
this shows how doing the right can damage way more , they did infinitely more damage , banning the best player in the world and byong , and making public the case , how does that helped the scene ? they did inmeasurable damage to the scene.. nobody woulda given a fuck if they didn't do this..
I mean he did something illegal and the state of Korea punish him for it according to their law, what do you want them to do? The judge and policement don't care (or at least should not care) about the state of starcraft when they are working.
I guess Kespa could have not ban them, but the 2 month "drama" was just the judiary power working and taking his time. It was not Kespa who prosecuted Life it was the state of Korea since it was a criminal offense and not a civil offense, so no they could not ask for just a fee.
i think we all agree that he should be punished , im just saying just because one of the charges was the "damage done to the scene.." i thought it was ironic since this action pretty much destroyed sc2 and the whole zerg race not "literally" but did way more damage than it woulda been just with a fee , things like this happen in daily bases in any sport.. and they keep playing
Ah ok got you, but I think damage done to the scene was more of an agravating factor then a charge (I could be wrong on that one, I can't read korean), because his action impacted the credibility of other person as well as Kespa he should be punish more.
It does seems a bit ironic in this situation, but I feel like it make sense, his action were not only ilegal but they also hurt other people so it is more severe, also they kind of have to respect legal precedents.
Even if he only got a fee it would still have hurt Kespa has an organisation and other esport member, having him continue to play would not have been all that much better either, outside of making it seems less riscky for other to do it, it could also have cause a huge controversy, just look at all that happen around MK when he continue to play after beeing only suspected of matchfixing.
Flash vs Life in the MLG (I think it was) -> won me over. BLizzcon 2014 and 2015... good times.............................TT
Life is still one of my favorite players.
I would love to help him out financially. However, I doubt this mistake will haunt him for the rest of his life -- ain't mass murder, although still bad. He just happened to be presented with a temptation that nearly all of us will never be given because he's so damn smart and perservering. This guy can reach for the stars.
I really hope that somehow he comes back to Starcraft II or some other eSport.
We could support a match fixer who's amazing at SC2 to keep playing while we see more high profile tournaments disappear due to match fixing.
Or we could ban him from the scene to let the professional scene grow, although already damaged.
It's one or the other.
EDIT: I also love how people are saying that the events pretty much killed his life from here-on. He can do whatever he wants (although he does have the criminal record now) outside of eSports.
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
that's almost the same case everywhere, i think life's life is now done
Lets not get over dramatic, it is just one crime and a relatively minor one, I am guessing he still got a very healty bank acount for his age. He won't do prison it is just a fine
Most university are still going to accept him, the best one may not but the public one will at least look at it and in programs that don't make cut at the entrance, most of humam science, comunication, art and some administration programs he should be able to enter. He was not guilty of gun possession, rape or murder it was just illegal gambling.
Finding a good job is going to be a lot harder but it is very much douable, the offense is not that bad and he can always try to defends himself in interview blaming it on his age or the pression from the mob.
His life is not over at, he made it a lot more difficult that it needed to be but all and all a criminal record vs a 200k+ bank acount for a 18 years old his not that bad.
I would be a lot more worry for b4 or Enough.
You're making it sound like Life has more money then he may actually have. If the gambling rumors are true, Life has already pissed away most of his legitimate earnings and that's why he agreed to match-fix in the first place, he needed more cash to either gamble more, or pay off previous gambling debts.
Oh wow, he got into gambling? Poor kid, no wonder things ended up this way.
I have to agree that jail time seems unnecessary, though. To be honest, given how poor his finances are, a fine seems pointless too. Banning him from his livelihood, even if for "only" five or ten years or what have you, would be enough to seriously punish his crime. Life's going to be wishing he'd just done differently for the rest of his days.
On July 14 2016 18:56 JackONeill wrote: Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
You're failing to take into account that a lot of the top players do not enjoy playing the game, and only do so because they are good at it.
On July 14 2016 18:56 JackONeill wrote: Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
You're failing to take into account that a lot of the top players do not enjoy playing the game, and only do so because they are good at it.
A Lot ? Where does this comes from ? Like who ? You can't be at the top without liking what you do.
On July 14 2016 18:56 JackONeill wrote: Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
You're failing to take into account that a lot of the top players do not enjoy playing the game, and only do so because they are good at it.
I think this explanation is unsatisfying. They don't "only" play the game because they're good at it - it's definitely much more than that. The fact that many players literally grew up playing Starcraft and know no career but their Starcraft-playing ones is, I think, much more significant. It's different from a traditional working career for numerous reasons (largely the same as for all athletes), but the safety net is much less significant. It's more difficult to transition to a different job from streaming and playing professional Starcraft than it is for, say, a professional soccer player to do the same. And even then it is difficult.
Regardless, though, I think the implication that "a lot" of top players don't enjoy the game is incredibly hyperbolic. They might not ravenously love it like they did however many years ago, but it would be absurd to think they hate what they do.
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
that's almost the same case everywhere, i think life's life is now done
Lets not get over dramatic, it is just one crime and a relatively minor one, I am guessing he still got a very healty bank acount for his age. He won't do prison it is just a fine
Most university are still going to accept him, the best one may not but the public one will at least look at it and in programs that don't make cut at the entrance, most of humam science, comunication, art and some administration programs he should be able to enter. He was not guilty of gun possession, rape or murder it was just illegal gambling.
Finding a good job is going to be a lot harder but it is very much douable, the offense is not that bad and he can always try to defends himself in interview blaming it on his age or the pression from the mob.
His life is not over at, he made it a lot more difficult that it needed to be but all and all a criminal record vs a 200k+ bank acount for a 18 years old his not that bad.
I would be a lot more worry for b4 or Enough.
You're making it sound like Life has more money then he may actually have. If the gambling rumors are true, Life has already pissed away most of his legitimate earnings and that's why he agreed to match-fix in the first place, he needed more cash to either gamble more, or pay off previous gambling debts.
Wow, realy ok then I guess he is pretty fuck if he is already out of money.
On July 14 2016 18:56 JackONeill wrote: Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
On July 14 2016 18:56 JackONeill wrote: Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
You're failing to take into account that a lot of the top players do not enjoy playing the game, and only do so because they are good at it.
I think this explanation is unsatisfying. They don't "only" play the game because they're good at it - it's definitely much more than that. The fact that many players literally grew up playing Starcraft and know no career but their Starcraft-playing ones is, I think, much more significant. It's different from a traditional working career for numerous reasons (largely the same as for all athletes), but the safety net is much less significant. It's more difficult to transition to a different job from streaming and playing professional Starcraft than it is for, say, a professional soccer player to do the same. And even then it is difficult.
Regardless, though, I think the implication that "a lot" of top players don't enjoy the game is incredibly hyperbolic. They might not ravenously love it like they did however many years ago, but it would be absurd to think they hate what they do.
On July 14 2016 15:21 sc2randomize wrote: Dang. Does anyone know how Korea treats people with criminal records? I know in the US he'd basically be f***ed for life (no pun intended) after getting a criminal record: automatic rejection by most universities, no decent career prospects, etc.
that's almost the same case everywhere, i think life's life is now done
Lets not get over dramatic, it is just one crime and a relatively minor one, I am guessing he still got a very healty bank acount for his age. He won't do prison it is just a fine
Most university are still going to accept him, the best one may not but the public one will at least look at it and in programs that don't make cut at the entrance, most of humam science, comunication, art and some administration programs he should be able to enter. He was not guilty of gun possession, rape or murder it was just illegal gambling.
Finding a good job is going to be a lot harder but it is very much douable, the offense is not that bad and he can always try to defends himself in interview blaming it on his age or the pression from the mob.
His life is not over at, he made it a lot more difficult that it needed to be but all and all a criminal record vs a 200k+ bank acount for a 18 years old his not that bad.
I would be a lot more worry for b4 or Enough.
You're making it sound like Life has more money then he may actually have. If the gambling rumors are true, Life has already pissed away most of his legitimate earnings and that's why he agreed to match-fix in the first place, he needed more cash to either gamble more, or pay off previous gambling debts.
Other than the story of him hitting up the casinos in Europe, I haven't heard the rumors about him having a crippling gambling problem.
Which would be kind of hard to do since he's both underage and living in a country that prohibits gambling...
On July 14 2016 18:56 JackONeill wrote: Young or not, Life's illegal actions were especially unforgivable because he did it while still at the top. I mean I can understand that Yoda would do such a thing because he wasn't performing anymore. When you're a professional player and you're on the down slope, I can understand (not approuve, but understand) that you'd do this kind of stuff. But life was still a very, very good player, probably top 5-10 Z in the world.
I'm glad he gets fully and extensively punished by the righteous arm of korean justice.
I just wish he could demand trial by starcraft combat, not because i think he shouldn't be punished, but simply because holy shit the hype would be ridiculous.
On July 14 2016 13:33 Waxangel wrote: The Changwon court upheld the original sentence of 18 months imprisonment suspended by three years, with a 70,000,000 won fine.
So it was KESPA that decided the lifetime ban? I wish we would get a statement from Life. At 19, I'm not letting him off for being young. The way I see it, once you get caught once, god knows how many times you broke the law. But if these rumors (?) of being in debt for gambling are true I could understand. Understand, not accept.
I still think the lifetime ban is too much purely because of his GOAT status. Even a 2 year ban may end his career forever. People will say, what about poor Yoda and BoongBoong? Well they never contributed as much to the scene as Life.
There was no other Zerg player in the history of the game with the same consistency and brilliance. Dark is good, but doesn't come close. I wonder if he still plays. When you've dedicated years of your life to something... well... old habits die hard. RIP Life.
On July 14 2016 13:33 Waxangel wrote: The Changwon court upheld the original sentence of 18 months imprisonment suspended by three years, with a 70,000,000 won fine.
So it was KESPA that decided the lifetime ban? I wish we would get a statement from Life. At 19, I'm not letting him off for being young. The way I see it, once you get caught once, god knows how many times you broke the law. But if these rumors (?) of being in debt for gambling are true I could understand. Understand, not accept.
I still think the lifetime ban is too much purely because of his GOAT status. Even a 2 year ban may end his career forever. People will say, what about poor Yoda and BoongBoong? Well they never contributed as much to the scene as Life.
There was no other Zerg player in the history of the game with the same consistency and brilliance. Dark is good, but doesn't come close. I wonder if he still plays. When you've dedicated years of your life to something... well... old habits die hard. RIP Life.
lifetime ban is justified, matchfixer's actions destabilized the scene, it'll be lucky if it even lasts another 2-3 years, and lets be honest here would there be any sponsors willing to back a tournament with known matchfixers? It would make anyone question the legitimacy of the tournament.
On July 14 2016 14:42 XiZeL wrote: and what happens to the people or entities that approached a minor to bribe him?
does no one see that the real problem here are the people taking advantage of minors. hes just a kid, c'mon who as a kid would not accept a large amount of cash to throw a few games!
Doesnt change he was not 14 but pretty close to being a legal adult so they figured he should have known better and the fact it was for the amount it was meant they couldn't just let it slide.
If this happened to maru in open gsl season 2 i dont think he would have been treated as harshly but its life, now, at this point in his career. Can't let it go.
He deserves every bit of it right now I just hope the rest of his life outside of progaming isn't hurt by this too much. He's still young and deserves a chance at a good life once all this is over.
yeah, i mean why would your life be hurt by this right? its just an 18 months prison sentence and a gigantic fine. who does not have 61000$ lying around and what potential boss cares about you being sentenced to prison?
On July 15 2016 13:58 BLinD-RawR wrote: lifetime ban is justified, matchfixer's actions destabilized the scene, it'll be lucky if it even lasts another 2-3 years, and lets be honest here would there be any sponsors willing to back a tournament with known matchfixers? It would make anyone question the legitimacy of the tournament.
I don't think so. After all, as I said, it's one mistake. It's not as if he was some criminal mastermind running a ring of corrupt players, as Savior did. I understood he had a gambling problem, got into red, and this is what these sharks are waiting for. He played Starcraft his entire teenage life, he slipped up, got sentenced and banned.
But for life?
How about, for example, Calciopoli? Half of Italian football teams were into it, or involved one way or the other. I don't see Juventus Torino disbanded and excluded for life for playing in Serie A. Got relegated, players left, fined, some managers jailed if I remember well. They fought back in Serie B, got back, learned their lessons.
I would have banned Life 18-24 months, heavy fine, stripped all his titles. Wanna go back? Endure the ban, no money, but we'll give you another chance to make it right. Not so with KeSPA, which is directly excluding for life anyone involved in matchfixing.
I remember yet again the Savior thing. Was Hwasin guilty on the same level as Savior? For Christ's sake, the poor kid did not even understood what he got involved in. Yet his life was ruined, covered with shame, practically being a ghost for years. Nobody deserves this except the guys scheming that. I, somehow, wonder if Life was the criminal mastermind here.
I think that Koreans tend to prohibit gambling though, and they probably wanted to make an example of what happens when you get involved in that sorta thing more than just getting at Life specifically. He's just a guy who matchfixed as far as anyone should be concerned.
And I understand the human element of "he's just a kid," and "it's a heavy price to pay for someone who probably can't do anything else," but at some level or another, he broke the law and should be punished as a criminal for it. What impact this has on the rest of his life, I don't actually know. What are all the other matchfixers doing these days?
On July 14 2016 14:42 XiZeL wrote: and what happens to the people or entities that approached a minor to bribe him?
does no one see that the real problem here are the people taking advantage of minors. hes just a kid, c'mon who as a kid would not accept a large amount of cash to throw a few games!
Doesnt change he was not 14 but pretty close to being a legal adult so they figured he should have known better and the fact it was for the amount it was meant they couldn't just let it slide.
If this happened to maru in open gsl season 2 i dont think he would have been treated as harshly but its life, now, at this point in his career. Can't let it go.
He deserves every bit of it right now I just hope the rest of his life outside of progaming isn't hurt by this too much. He's still young and deserves a chance at a good life once all this is over.
yeah, i mean why would your life be hurt by this right? its just an 18 months prison sentence and a gigantic fine. who does not have 61000$ lying around and what potential boss cares about you being sentenced to prison?
wake up, the kid is fucked for life.
wake up he committed a legit crime, so its kinda hard to sympathize with him. Its not because he intentionally lost at video games, its because he took money from organized crime to fix a major gambling event.
On July 15 2016 13:58 BLinD-RawR wrote: lifetime ban is justified, matchfixer's actions destabilized the scene, it'll be lucky if it even lasts another 2-3 years, and lets be honest here would there be any sponsors willing to back a tournament with known matchfixers? It would make anyone question the legitimacy of the tournament.
I don't think so. After all, as I said, it's one mistake. It's not as if he was some criminal mastermind running a ring of corrupt players, as Savior did. I understood he had a gambling problem, got into red, and this is what these sharks are waiting for. He played Starcraft his entire teenage life, he slipped up, got sentenced and banned.
But for life?
How about, for example, Calciopoli? Half of Italian football teams were into it, or involved one way or the other. I don't see Juventus Torino disbanded and excluded for life for playing in Serie A. Got relegated, players left, fined, some managers jailed if I remember well. They fought back in Serie B, got back, learned their lessons.
I would have banned Life 18-24 months, heavy fine, stripped all his titles. Wanna go back? Endure the ban, no money, but we'll give you another chance to make it right. Not so with KeSPA, which is directly excluding for life anyone involved in matchfixing.
I remember yet again the Savior thing. Was Hwasin guilty on the same level as Savior? For Christ's sake, the poor kid did not even understood what he got involved in. Yet his life was ruined, covered with shame, practically being a ghost for years. Nobody deserves this except the guys scheming that. I, somehow, wonder if Life was the criminal mastermind here.
No, he wasn't the mastermind. And this is what I'm trying to say.
Life was taken in by a team when he was 12. He practically wasn't in middle school when he joined a team. That means most of his adolescent and childhood upbringing was with a Korean team. As a result, it's THEIR responsibility to make sure he grows up to be a capable adult. I do think he was lucky with Startale as they're known to be one of the more "family-like" teams, but it's pretty well known that teams grind the last worth out of their members for wins/results. So Life definitely wouldn't have had a proper and caring upbringing.
So to me there's little doubt that Life would have been easily manipulated by others and believe what others told him. After all, that's how he's trained to think by teams. Moreover, it should be the team's responsibility to grind an anti-matchmaking fundamental into their players at the very least but it's clear they didn't.
To me, there's no doubt that Life made the decision to matchfix which is why he should be punished. But most of the responsibility actually falls on the matchfixer and in fact, on the system that raised him.
I personally think it doesn't go far enough, he doesn't deserve mention in the SC2 community any more. If I had my way I'd have a filter to change Life to Who?
On July 16 2016 14:38 showstealer1829 wrote: I personally think it doesn't go far enough, he doesn't deserve mention in the SC2 community any more. If I had my way I'd have a filter to change Life to Who?
Going into eSports thinking it will be a career path is the real problem here. The minimum age to play professionally should be 19 (Korean age). Scholar-athlete programs has its problems in football and basketball but for the majority of the collegiate programs, it builds a good educational base for athletes to fall back to. Something similar where players are forced to explore some sort of secondary education before going professional is needed in Korea.
On July 17 2016 10:55 MaCRo.gg wrote: Going into eSports thinking it will be a career path is the real problem here. The minimum age to play professionally should be 19 (Korean age). Scholar-athlete programs has its problems in football and basketball but for the majority of the collegiate programs, it builds a good educational base for athletes to fall back to. Something similar where players are forced to explore some sort of secondary education before going professional is needed in Korea.
Though to be fair, you're not going to get a decent education if you're putting a lot of your time practicing. Also, on what grounds are you saying this? is there some evidence?
On July 17 2016 10:55 MaCRo.gg wrote: Going into eSports thinking it will be a career path is the real problem here. The minimum age to play professionally should be 19 (Korean age). Scholar-athlete programs has its problems in football and basketball but for the majority of the collegiate programs, it builds a good educational base for athletes to fall back to. Something similar where players are forced to explore some sort of secondary education before going professional is needed in Korea.
And that's why it's a manipulation of children who think they can actually have earnings as a progamer and are told they're good and have potential. Then they chase their "dreams" only to realize it was foolish when they grow older and have nothing on their hands.
In the same vein of manipulation, Life's upbringing was at the hands of a team, and they obviously wouldn't be teaching him how to become a model citizen or focusing on issues like matchfixing. Instead it's all about grinding their players to mine them out for sponsorships and money.
Jesus I know match-fixing is a huge deal in esports and it should certainly be severely punished, but give the little dude a break, he's baby-young and made ONE mistake under bad influences. Banning him for life and fining him is already a lot to take though somehow justified, but JAIL TIME? Nah, unacceptable.
On July 16 2016 09:26 RichardNPL wrote: we neeed to make tribute video about life. He is so awesome tragic hero Being Champ wasnt enough for him
Sure lets make a ''tribute'' for a cheater,
As was the case with saviOr, you can honor a player's career and incredible achievements without condoning whatever immoral things they did beyond it. There's no question that Life was a one-of-a-kind player, and that his career was absolutely incredible. His acting like a dickhead out of poor judgment doesn't change that one bit.
why isn't it possible for people on the internet to just say "hey, he's a kid who made a mistake, it's a serious mistake and he's responsible for it, but i wish him the best in becoming a better person and competitor"
why does it have to be either "IT'S JUST GAMBLING OVER A VIDEO GAME!!! HE WAS A LEGENDARY PLAYER!!!" or "STRING HIM UP IN THE TOWN SQUARE AS AN EXAMPLE TO ALL SCUM"?
like i 100% agree he fucked up and i'm not a fan anymore, i agree with the punishment, but i don't want shit smeared on his face... i just want the dude to improve his decision making
On July 17 2016 22:53 brickrd wrote: why isn't it possible for people on the internet to just say "hey, he's a kid who made a mistake, it's a serious mistake and he's responsible for it, but i wish him the best in becoming a better person and competitor"
why does it have to be either "IT'S JUST GAMBLING OVER A VIDEO GAME!!! HE WAS A LEGENDARY PLAYER!!!" or "STRING HIM UP IN THE TOWN SQUARE AS AN EXAMPLE TO ALL SCUM"?
Because only the extremes feel the need to share it. The ones in the middle don't, so you don't see them.
On July 16 2016 09:26 RichardNPL wrote: we neeed to make tribute video about life. He is so awesome tragic hero Being Champ wasnt enough for him
Sure lets make a ''tribute'' for a cheater,
Life never cheated. Every acheivement and trophy he won was because of his skill. He is now banned because he accepted money in return for throwing 2 games, that isn't cheating it's match fixing.
On July 17 2016 10:55 MaCRo.gg wrote: Going into eSports thinking it will be a career path is the real problem here. The minimum age to play professionally should be 19 (Korean age). Scholar-athlete programs has its problems in football and basketball but for the majority of the collegiate programs, it builds a good educational base for athletes to fall back to. Something similar where players are forced to explore some sort of secondary education before going professional is needed in Korea.
And that's why it's a manipulation of children who think they can actually have earnings as a progamer and are told they're good and have potential. Then they chase their "dreams" only to realize it was foolish when they grow older and have nothing on their hands.
In the same vein of manipulation, Life's upbringing was at the hands of a team, and they obviously wouldn't be teaching him how to become a model citizen or focusing on issues like matchfixing. Instead it's all about grinding their players to mine them out for sponsorships and money.
Life was basically a part-time player for several years because he was still living at home and going to school. Back then you could see obvious differences in his level of play during the school year versus summer break. I'm not exactly sure when he went full time pro. Other teenage progamers do drop out of school but Life originally wasn't one of them.
Plus it may surprise you but Korea does have laws in place for when minors are allowed to be online. For example they used to move Creator's game times around to avoid the Internet curfew for minors.
Lastly, it might interest you but what you are describing for progamer-student programs has existed in Korea. The old team NeoHosu was actually a school sanctioned team (not sure if it was affiliated or you had to be a student to be on it). The old FOU clan was something similar, Leenock used to talk about how he would get practice time during the school day (originally another part-time player). It may not go as far as you're proposing but I figured you'd be interested to know it exists.
He is 18 and get 18 months of emprisonements suspended by 3 years and 60k$ fine. The korean court is really really severe, even too severe in my opinion. He is the best sc2 player by far, no one is better than him in this game. We just lost a fucking genius, it's really sad.
On July 19 2016 04:23 Ezus wrote: He is 18 and get 18 months of emprisonements suspended by 3 years and 60k$ fine. The korean court is really really severe, even too severe in my opinion. He is the best sc2 player by far, no one is better than him in this game. We just lost a fucking genius, it's really sad.
His awful decisions are sad, now he has to live with the consequences of them. Korea drops the hammer on shit like this because of the organized crime aspect.
Sorry, but I've got to ask: I remember the prosecutors listing out the particular games that Life threw. I couldn't, or maybe didn't know how to properly, find them.
On July 19 2016 04:23 Ezus wrote: He is 18 and get 18 months of emprisonements suspended by 3 years and 60k$ fine. The korean court is really really severe, even too severe in my opinion. He is the best sc2 player by far, no one is better than him in this game. We just lost a fucking genius, it's really sad.
Match-fixing is a cancer to eSports, as it would be to any competitive endeavor. Just like widespread doping is an existential threat to many sports - match-fixing undermines the legitimacy of the competition and scares away sponsors.
Maybe they are making an example out of him - he is the most accomplished SC2 player ever and the courts want to make an example that no one is immune from punishment.
KeSPA's banning after spending two months in jail for this. So sad. I wish I knew more. Was there was anyone who tried to help or just sleazeballs manipulating him after he had made some dumb mistakes? Do teachers and mentors actually make a point to educate and help young players with things like this? The big "Why"! So many questions.
I still remember having my mind blown when I found out how old (young) Life was after months of watching his games and trying his builds on ladder, he is so talented and did so much for Zergs and the entire community. Hopefully he learns from these mistakes, keeps his chin up, and puts all of that incredible talent into something meaningful.
On July 19 2016 09:20 Chewbacca1 wrote: Sorry, but I've got to ask: I remember the prosecutors listing out the particular games that Life threw. I couldn't, or maybe didn't know how to properly, find them.
I still love watching his games. His style was awesome. Many great athletes fix matches in every sport and often we don't know . where there is money there will always be things like this so I don't care what he did, I just wish i could see more of Life
On July 19 2016 09:20 Chewbacca1 wrote: Sorry, but I've got to ask: I remember the prosecutors listing out the particular games that Life threw. I couldn't, or maybe didn't know how to properly, find them.
I hope it's one of the two big names who didn't get caught who were blatantly match fixing when it all broke and not someone new. There are only 3 players left playing at a competitive level from when it all broke who are at all relevant/not retired and one of them wouldn't count as a big name. It would be heartbreaking if it's someone new that i'm not thinking of already.
On August 02 2016 18:57 Swoopae wrote: I hope it's one of the two big names who didn't get caught who were blatantly match fixing when it all broke and not someone new. There are only 3 players left playing at a competitive level from when it all broke who are at all relevant/not retired and one of them wouldn't count as a big name. It would be heartbreaking if it's someone new that i'm not thinking of already.
I think you should just name drop them and get banned again like the last few times. That never gets old.
On August 02 2016 21:04 evolsiefil wrote: i wonder if life still plays sc2 for fun on a barcode maybe.
Well, probably not on a barcode, but very possibly from behind bars.
He is not in prison.
He can play if this game brings him fun... but lets be honest, if you start matchfixing, your passion should be long gone for other things and the game became just a tool.
On July 17 2016 22:53 brickrd wrote: why isn't it possible for people on the internet to just say "hey, he's a kid who made a mistake, it's a serious mistake and he's responsible for it, but i wish him the best in becoming a better person and competitor"
why does it have to be either "IT'S JUST GAMBLING OVER A VIDEO GAME!!! HE WAS A LEGENDARY PLAYER!!!" or "STRING HIM UP IN THE TOWN SQUARE AS AN EXAMPLE TO ALL SCUM"?
Because only the extremes feel the need to share it. The ones in the middle don't, so you don't see them.
Here is to changing that:
I'll always remember the Life vs Mvp GSL finals as an incredible experience (even as a terran player). You had a lot of support behind you in the community whether you won or lost, so it is sad to hear about the match fixing.
Thanks for the good memories Life! I hope you can still move in a positive direction after serving punishment.
EPT
