|
Russian Federation66 Posts
Balance Changes
Terran :
Thor :
-Adding a second anti-air attack 'mode' which can be toggled on/off:
-Attack deals 35 (+15 armored) damage every 2.14 seconds (on faster game speed)
Cyclone :
-Cost reduced from 150/150 to 150/100
-Supply cost increased from 3 to 4
Liberator :
-Anti-air damage changed from 7 to 5 (+2 light)
Protoss :
Colossus :
+10% to Attack Speed (This includes a 10% increase to the ground sweep as well)
Immortal :
-Barrier absorb reduced from 200 damage to 100 damage
Zerg :
Swarm Host :
-Cost reduced from 200/100 to 150/75
Map Changes :
Frozen Temple :
-Removed Watchtowers
source :
us.battle.net
|
I cannot believe they still haven't fixed the APM bug. When using steal group hotkeys, instead of create control group, your APM gets wildly inflated.
When they finally do fix it, I will forever do worse than my average 
|
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game.
|
On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game.
People won't spend time to figure out something in test map with try hard attitude.That why i want thor change goes through ASAP.
|
So swarm host didn't get a supply increase.. interesting.
|
But the Cyclone did. Even more interesting.
|
Can someone please explain to me why they removed the Watchtowers on Frozen Temple. I kinda thought they were vitaly important in PvZ to figure spott a potential all-in coming.
|
I salute the immortal nerf
|
On May 24 2016 21:30 Jonsoload wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why they removed the Watchtowers on Frozen Temple. I kinda thought they were vitaly important in PvZ to figure spott a potential all-in coming.
Because they are experimenting with different kind of maps. SC1 didn't have any watchtowers.
|
On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game.
Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars.
|
China6327 Posts
Also Frost and KSS are in the map pool now.
|
On May 24 2016 21:30 Jonsoload wrote:
Can someone please explain to me why they removed the Watchtowers on Frozen Temple. I kinda thought they were vitaly important in PvZ to figure spott a potential all-in coming.
D. Kim stated in a community feedback that they were, according to pros, giving an advantage too huge to the player controlling them.
It has been something constant over the past few years, all maps with XNT in the middle were slowly removed, almost every WoL map had some, it totally disappeared during HotS.
Nowadays XNT are only tolerated when they are on the side, out of the main attacking path...
|
On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars.
You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT.
|
On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT.
At least before the lib range upgrade yeah.
I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed.
|
Happy is wrecking everyone with mech.
|
On May 24 2016 20:20 ejozl wrote:I cannot believe they still haven't fixed the APM bug. When using steal group hotkeys, instead of create control group, your APM gets wildly inflated. When they finally do fix it, I will forever do worse than my average
That is irrelevant.
|
No supply increase on Swarm Hosts? But the increase on Cyclones? Why can't they just remove the idiotic lock on ability and make it pump out reliable anti - air?
Praise the Starcraft gods for better maps and an Immortal/Liberator nerf! The new Thor changes look incredibly beasty vs. Broodlords as well.
|
wow, i got what i wanted with this patch.
i really liked LotV before this patch and i hope i end up liking it more after the patch... i think i will but i won't know until i play for a while.
the only nit-picky thing i'd like to say is that i wish they could've found a way to buff the Tank and weaken Terran air even further... but that's getting really nit-picky and the granularity of this request is probably too fine.
in closing, great work.
please buff the Tank and weaken Terran air or remove speed boost when a Medivac is carrying a Tank/Thor as some other poster suggested.
Thx Blizzard.
Thx David Kim.
|
On May 25 2016 01:23 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
wow, i got what i wanted with this patch.
i really liked LotV before this patch and i hope i end up liking it more after the patch... i think i will but i won't know until i play for a while.
the only nit-picky thing i'd like to say is that i wish they could've found a way to buff the Tank and weaken Terran air even further... but that's getting really nit-picky and the granularity of this request is probably too fine.
in closing, great work.
please buff the Tank and weaken Terran air or remove speed boost when a Medivac is carrying a Tank/Thor as some other poster suggested.
Thx Blizzard.
Thx David Kim.
I wish they'd remove the delay before firing on the tank. If you move a tank, the turret tracks, but if you a-move from there, you still wait the full delay before firing.
What's the point of turret tracking if it doesn't speed up the shot ;_;
|
After several weeks of random terrible ideas that almost went live, this ended up better than expected tbh.
|
One base cyclone push for new meta
|
Do we have any relevant games with zealot/archon/immortal vs zerg after this immortal nerf?
|
How is thor against ultralisks? Is it as good as it is now against broodlords? I remember I often saw thor against ultra in late game TvZ during HotS when the terran mech was very popular.
|
On May 25 2016 03:26 FFgringo wrote:
How is thor against ultralisks? Is it as good as it is now against broodlords? I remember I often saw thor against ultra in late game TvZ during HotS when the terran mech was very popular.
Thors vs Ultras is efficient for Terran, but Terran wants to be efficient, so it's quite even.
|
The thor would be just as effective as ultralisks as they were formerly. Which is to say, in large numbers against each other, toally devoid of supporting units, the thors do very well.
|
On May 25 2016 01:53 Shield wrote:
Do we have any relevant games with zealot/archon/immortal vs zerg after this immortal nerf?
Many games in SPL and GSL almost ended when the Immortals survived... and in lots a games it felt like "He won because the Immo didn't really die"
I hope the gas reduction in Cyclone help to open agressive against Protoss a little more... I mean, I can go now Concusive Marauder again and get a Cyclone against MotherCore early... and then keep it alive against Oracle while bumping any other thing.
Let's see what happens... but I still fell they should have lowered the Mins also a little.
|
On May 25 2016 01:36 Salteador Neo wrote:
After several weeks of random terrible ideas that almost went live, this ended up better than expected tbh.
i don't think they were random. they were calculated experiments that failed. in the middle of any creative process you need to plan for room for failure. and you can't just give up after a few failures.
When Kyle Lowry of the Toronto Raptors is trying to add a new move to his game he doesn't get it perfectly right the instant he thinks of it. He works on it in practice where he fails a 100 times before he can incorporate it into his game and blow by Kyrie Irving of Cleveland like he is a human pylon.
So let's give Blizzard the room to fail in the middle of their creatives processes.
|
An analogy only works because there are enough similarities to overcome the differences. A series of terrible ideas that almost went live is not the same as ABC person practicing XYZ tactic (I have no idea who or what game you are refering to btw, (Wtf is a human pylon? Does he warp in zealots in your main?) so forgive me if my interpretation of your analogy is incorrect ) and that it wasn't as awful as it could had been is in any way comparable in scale, shape or form.
|
|
|
Good changes. That immortal nerf was much needed imo, 7-8 immortals and the protoss just out DPS anything zerg has.
|
On May 25 2016 04:06 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
An analogy only works because there are enough similarities to overcome the differences. A series of terrible ideas that almost went live is not the same as ABC person practicing XYZ tactic (I have no idea who or what game you are refering to btw, (Wtf is a human pylon? Does he warp in zealots in your main?) so forgive me if my interpretation of your analogy is incorrect ) and that it wasn't as awful as it could had been is in any way comparable in scale, shape or form.
lol, lighten up dawg.
creative processes require room in the middle of them for experimentation and failure before you happen upon an amazing success. so give Blizzard that room.
was Brood War rattled off by Fitch in a month just after meeting with management about it? no, there were many mistakes along the way; its part of the process. Software development is a craft ; it is not a factory assembly line. Please note my signature.
now that Blizzard is opening up a little bit and showing us part of their development process lets not rip them to shreds in the middle of the creative parts.
if Blizzard listened to the hyper-critical know-it-alls in this forum all the staff that made Brood War awesome in 1998 would've been fired in 1997. A lynch mob would've been screaming for Rob Pardo's head with petitions and surveys and threats of boycott because the Academy cost 200 minerals.
|
On May 25 2016 04:10 huller20 wrote:
Good changes. That immortal nerf was much needed imo, 7-8 immortals and the protoss just out DPS anything zerg has.
How is that different than 7-8 Lurkers out DPSing anything the Protoss has, aside from Immortals? Zerg is the wastful, mass unit race, which can tech switch really, really fast. Protoss has to have a more efficient unit to one-up the Zerg, otherwise Protoss is dead. And that is why nerfing Immortals while keeping Lurkers the same is a very bad idea.
|
The patch I would not care about if it wasn't for SH. SH is THE worst SC2 unit ever. It should be removed. Not balanced, not changed, not even redesigned. Just removed.
|
That's funny, I have the same feeling about the collosus. They should just be removed, to reduce the problem of overlapping unit roles.
|
I have the same feeling about protoss.
vOv
|
On May 25 2016 04:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
That's funny, I have the same feeling about the collosus. They should just be removed, to reduce the problem of overlapping unit roles.
I agree. I never liked that unit, even when I played random in WoL and rolled protoss. I think it is fundamentally flawed, being a unit that gives a high reward for low effort. Not a good successor to the reaver, which is high reward for high effort (as I think it should be). The disruptor is a much better successor to the reaver than the colossus IMO.
|
On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed.
oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro?
|
Nice job for buffing koloss, protoss got so few aoe these days. Why dont they buff pylon rush strength and prism speed too, it would be even better. Whatever there is no more hope for this game, the design is the worst in the sc history in my opinion xD . Btw we are still waiting match making patch for team games, 2v2 is barely playable atm
|
On May 25 2016 05:11 The Bottle wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 04:59 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
That's funny, I have the same feeling about the collosus. They should just be removed, to reduce the problem of overlapping unit roles. I agree. I never liked that unit, even when I played random in WoL and rolled protoss. I think it is fundamentally flawed, being a unit that gives a high reward for low effort. Not a good successor to the reaver, which is high reward for high effort (as I think it should be). The disruptor is a much better successor to the reaver than the colossus IMO.
I don't agree, I like colossi because I don't have enough apm to correctly handle all protoss army spells in a couple of seconds after engaging the ennemy army, and having the opportunity to replace disruptor by colossi will give me sustained AoE while allowing me to micro the rest of my army.
I don't see them as overlapping units.
I totally understand the point of view of blizzard who wants to help non-pro players with this little buff.
|
On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro?
lol that's exactly what i mean. I've gotten used to the no micro play of Terran in LOTV and i would not want it to change.
|
btw, the cost of the swarmhost is now 150/100 and not 150/75. but well, noone will ever build this unit, so i do not wonder, that noone has mentioned it.
|
On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro?
It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking.
It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode.
It should really prioritize air units.
|
Thor needs to priority air because the delay clicking from players will make the range advantage of thor against vipers become non existent.
|
On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units.
I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it.
The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs
|
On May 25 2016 04:06 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
An analogy only works because there are enough similarities to overcome the differences. A series of terrible ideas that almost went live is not the same as ABC person practicing XYZ tactic (I have no idea who or what game you are refering to btw, (Wtf is a human pylon? Does he warp in zealots in your main?) so forgive me if my interpretation of your analogy is incorrect ) and that it wasn't as awful as it could had been is in any way comparable in scale, shape or form.
Actually I thought it was a very good analogy. And he was talking about Basketball.
|
Great, so... how do we beat Zerg now?
Honest question. The only build that works has been nerfed.
|
On May 25 2016 05:26 adnap2 wrote:
Nice job for buffing koloss, protoss got so few aoe these days. Why dont they buff pylon rush strength and prism speed too, it would be even better. Whatever there is no more hope for this game, the design is the worst in the sc history in my opinion xD . Btw we are still waiting match making patch for team games, 2v2 is barely playable atm
i play WoL 2v2s with my silver and gold friends. matchmaking works great. how is it bad in LotV? do you have ur own team? or do u play 2v2 solo?
|
I can't believe Blizzard are so stupid to go for this colossus buff. How many shots do you need to notice buff? 10. How often does colossus survive that long?
|
On May 25 2016 08:34 Shield wrote:
I can't believe Blizzard are so stupid to go for this colossus buff. How many shots do you need to notice buff? 10. How often does colossus survive that long?
Very rarely.
|
On May 25 2016 08:21 DinoMight wrote:
Great, so... how do we beat Zerg now?
Honest question. The only build that works has been nerfed.
... just as usual, we wait for Zest, sOs and co to show us the way 
|
On May 25 2016 07:50 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units. I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it. The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs
It was a HotS patch that reverted the Thor to always prioritize air, due to some issues regarding mass muta and ling bane (muta die fast and move a lot so unless you were automaton 2000, it was impossible to use thor as antiair efficiently)
I don't think anybody was mad about this, except the few zerg that thought that massing muta had to give you an autowin...
dunno why it was changed back in LotV...
|
If every balance patch made this much sense across the board, the game would be in a much better state, great patch, nice small tweaks across the board.
Work still needs to be done though, Disruptors are still wonky, SkyTerran and SkyProtoss is still a cancer turtle favoring style that drags games out forever, Nydus is still invulnerable, Tanks still aren't that great because of dumb mechanics like tankivac (which has already fallen out of style at least to a degree) make buffing the tank properly impossible. Ravens and Infestors are still the retarded step children of the spell caster family while High Templars remain totally amazing and useful in every match up.
Oh, and Cyclones and Swarm Hosts are still really awful. I don't care how cheap the Swarm Host is, you cannot have that much supply tied up into units that don't kill other units for so long, half the time the Locusts die before doing any damage anyways. Cyclones need a straight up buff, not cost reduction, this is a brand new unit that hasn't managed to worm it's way into the meta of really any match up, a total embarrassment to the design team.
|
On May 25 2016 08:47 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 07:50 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units. I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it. The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs It was a HotS patch that reverted the Thor to always prioritize air, due to some issues regarding mass muta and ling bane (muta die fast and move a lot so unless you were automaton 2000, it was impossible to use thor as antiair efficiently) I don't think anybody was mad about this, except the few zerg that thought that massing muta had to give you an autowin... dunno why it was changed back in LotV...
Not saying I don't believe you but I can't find that change listed at all. The thor liquipedia page seems to have every thor related patch and none of them reference the switch. So you're saying it went:
air (WoL) -----> ground (WoL) -------> air (HotS) -------> ground (LotV)
(patch I referenced) (patch you're saying) (LotV launch)
|
On May 25 2016 08:21 DinoMight wrote:
Great, so... how do we beat Zerg now?
Honest question. The only build that works has been nerfed.
I imagine the build still works, just that Immortals are weaker without real support now. No longer can they be spammed and tank the initial engagement.
|
colosus and swarm host buffs? Yuck
|
On May 25 2016 09:01 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 08:47 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 25 2016 07:50 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units. I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it. The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs It was a HotS patch that reverted the Thor to always prioritize air, due to some issues regarding mass muta and ling bane (muta die fast and move a lot so unless you were automaton 2000, it was impossible to use thor as antiair efficiently) I don't think anybody was mad about this, except the few zerg that thought that massing muta had to give you an autowin... dunno why it was changed back in LotV... Not saying I don't believe you but I can't find that change listed at all. The thor liquipedia page seems to have every thor related patch and none of them reference the switch. So you're saying it went: air (WoL) -----> ground (WoL) -------> air (HotS) -------> ground (LotV) (patch I referenced) (patch you're saying) (LotV launch)
They definitely did the change he's talking about in hots too. I remember it.
|
On May 25 2016 09:01 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 08:47 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 25 2016 07:50 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units. I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it. The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs It was a HotS patch that reverted the Thor to always prioritize air, due to some issues regarding mass muta and ling bane (muta die fast and move a lot so unless you were automaton 2000, it was impossible to use thor as antiair efficiently) I don't think anybody was mad about this, except the few zerg that thought that massing muta had to give you an autowin... dunno why it was changed back in LotV... Not saying I don't believe you but I can't find that change listed at all. The thor liquipedia page seems to have every thor related patch and none of them reference the switch. So you're saying it went: air (WoL) -----> ground (WoL) -------> air (HotS) -------> ground (LotV) (patch I referenced) (patch you're saying) (LotV launch)
EZPZ :
Balance update on July 25, 2014
It was a HUGE change that shifted the meta in a strong way, the final end of "ZParcraft" basically, cause widow mine also got buffed against P in the same patch.
|
On May 25 2016 10:45 Gwavajuice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 09:01 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 25 2016 08:47 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 25 2016 07:50 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units. I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it. The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs It was a HotS patch that reverted the Thor to always prioritize air, due to some issues regarding mass muta and ling bane (muta die fast and move a lot so unless you were automaton 2000, it was impossible to use thor as antiair efficiently) I don't think anybody was mad about this, except the few zerg that thought that massing muta had to give you an autowin... dunno why it was changed back in LotV... Not saying I don't believe you but I can't find that change listed at all. The thor liquipedia page seems to have every thor related patch and none of them reference the switch. So you're saying it went: air (WoL) -----> ground (WoL) -------> air (HotS) -------> ground (LotV) (patch I referenced) (patch you're saying) (LotV launch) EZPZ : Balance update on July 25, 2014It was a HUGE change that shifted the meta in a strong way, the final end of "ZParcraft" basically, cause widow mine also got buffed against P in the same patch.
Strange it didn't show up with the rest of the thor changes on its own page. It does seem odd that they keep flipping it, I see no reason why the problems that occur with it being air/ground prioritized would disappear if they change or change back. Like won't terran just run into the same problems that caused people to want the switch back to air the first time?
|
The high impact cannon has never prioritized air. Its primary purpose in hots was actually to force ground priority, not to actually shoot air. (Ed: I mean that that's what it was used for, not design intent) It should also stay that way unless they want to turn the thor into an anti-air primary unit. The current cannon is marginally better against armored air and actually slightly worse against non-armored air compared to hots.
|
United Kingdom20282 Posts
I can't believe Blizzard are so stupid to go for this colossus buff. How many shots do you need to notice buff? 10.
That's not how the math works at all.
It's a ROF buff, so it literally fires the second shot faster.
It kills a wave of zerglings or marines - whatever it's shooting at - in 90.9% of the time that it used to take.
The attack animation also sounds like it has been sped up as well, which should make it more microable instead of less - and that's something that you should notice even with a single shot.
Just tested it out myself and confirmed this stuff, it feels very noticably better ingame even with only one or two shots.
|
As a Terran player I'm actually quit happy with the cyclone change sure it still won't ever be the mech footman a lot of the community wants due to its high supply cost but I think it will see use in tvp. Remember at the start of Lotv Terran frequently would open cyclone to hold the adept rushes. One of the problems with those builds was you had to sacrifice a lot to have enough gas to get your factory out fast and ontop of it get your cyclones. It felt like you were Making the kind of cuts players make to do an Allin but instead were Allin on a somewhat mediocre defense unit now sine 2 cyclones cost 200 gas instead of 300 it's somewhat more reasonable to use them as a deffensive unit if you want to play a passive and macro oreinted early game. 100 gas does not sound like a big deal but it means you can delay 2nd refinery and have a few more mins to work with, granted you need more supply but 3 scvs mining mins for a bit longer can easily pump the 100 mins plus a bit extra, aditonaly you delay the 75 min investment into a second refinery.
|
On May 25 2016 09:01 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 08:47 Gwavajuice wrote:On May 25 2016 07:50 chipmonklord17 wrote:On May 25 2016 06:42 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 05:20 emc wrote:On May 24 2016 22:54 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 22:50 DreinarK wrote:On May 24 2016 22:36 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 24 2016 20:29 Elentos wrote:
That thor change is apparently a bigger deal than I thought. I saw Deth play mech in TvT on stream and the new thors won him the game. Yep. And they 3 shot Vipers and kill BL quite fast. Actual mech might have a chance in TvT and TvZ without turning in to air wars. You can counter liberators without going air yourself, might be huge in TvT. At least before the lib range upgrade yeah. I noticed something bad though. The new Thor AA does not prioritize air targets, so it's nigh impossible to fight BLs. This has to be fixed. oh noes, you mean terran can't just 1A to victory and must micro? It's nigh impossible in a 10 thor vs 10 broodlord fight to focusfire all the broodlords with 100% efficiency especially with broodlings blocking the thors from attacking. It was one of the main reason why many players still used the splash mode vs broodlords in HotS despite it being weaker than the HIP mode. It should really prioritize air units. I thought it used to prioritize air units and people got mad so they switched it. The only thing I can find is that in WoL it was changed to target ground instead of medivacs but idk if that was entirely from air to ground prioritization or just bio versus medivacs It was a HotS patch that reverted the Thor to always prioritize air, due to some issues regarding mass muta and ling bane (muta die fast and move a lot so unless you were automaton 2000, it was impossible to use thor as antiair efficiently) I don't think anybody was mad about this, except the few zerg that thought that massing muta had to give you an autowin... dunno why it was changed back in LotV... Not saying I don't believe you but I can't find that change listed at all. The thor liquipedia page seems to have every thor related patch and none of them reference the switch. So you're saying it went: air (WoL) -----> ground (WoL) -------> air (HotS) -------> ground (LotV) (patch I referenced) (patch you're saying) (LotV launch)
They did it the change on HOTS I remember it
|
Cyclones are now worse than they were before. (4 supply).
Thor high impact mode is irrelevant and worse than the light splash damage mode in some situations. As in, if stuff is clumped from your opponent you'd have been better off just leaving them in +light splash mode.
If blizzard actually kept the splash damage aspect then maybe it would have been a huge impactful change. As is right now, it's irrelevant =/
Disappointed / not happy with the changes. Didn't wait 8 months to see cyclones butchered even more, and for thors to still be completely irrelevant (still).
No nerfs on: 8 armor ultra, para bomb, invincible nydus, adept shade, warp prism. No tempest nerf? Carriers? But they nerfed liberators...so T now has no lategame because in HOTS Terran late game was = ravens. In LOTV Terran late game = liberators. Now you have nothing.
And i'm not saying i liked mass raven or mass liberator, but you can't just take this stuff away, not nerf the other race's late game mass air BS and expect the patch to play out well.
Not too happy.
|
On May 25 2016 15:38 avilo wrote:
Cyclones are now worse than they were before. (4 supply).
Thor high impact mode is irrelevant and worse than the light splash damage mode in some situations. As in, if stuff is clumped from your opponent you'd have been better off just leaving them in +light splash mode.
If blizzard actually kept the splash damage aspect then maybe it would have been a huge impactful change. As is right now, it's irrelevant =/
Disappointed / not happy with the changes. Didn't wait 8 months to see cyclones butchered even more, and for thors to still be completely irrelevant (still).
No nerfs on: 8 armor ultra, para bomb, invincible nydus, adept shade, warp prism. No tempest nerf? Carriers? But they nerfed liberators...so T now has no lategame because in HOTS Terran late game was = ravens. In LOTV Terran late game = liberators. Now you have nothing.
And i'm not saying i liked mass raven or mass liberator, but you can't just take this stuff away, not nerf the other race's late game mass air BS and expect the patch to play out well.
Not too happy.
It's no Goliath that's for sure, but come on man, it's a big improvement. It can 3 shot Vipers and the new AA is instant unlike the old one, so if a viper comes in to "yonk" Tanks/Thors it WILL dies. BLs are also killed efficiently, if you do some crazy target fire (because the priority of attack is on ground unfortunately). Liberators without the range upgrade can olso be killed rather fast. Tempests are unafected but that's because the Tempest itself is BS IMO.
Also note that it's decent against BCs and Ravens because PDD does not stop the attack.
|
Oh interesting, I didn't know that PDDs don't stop the Thor attack, poor Ravens. The Thor and Cyclone changes seem alright to me as I've wanted more variety for Terran for a while, especially in TvT. And I miss hearing "Thor is here! \m/" in tournaments and seeing them actually be useful afterward.
Like a lot Zergs I'm still not sure about SH. I'll have to keep an eye on CatZ' SH addiction to see what's up with them now. 
And the Immortal nerf. Thank the gods.
The last few updates have seemed weird but this one is...is actually nice? I can't believe I said that.
|
Have you actually tried the new thor AA? It's SO F***ING SLOW. One shot every 2,14 seconds, i looked the stats and if i'm not mistaken, 2 vikings have more AA DPS than the thor. Which is only 4 supply, and 50 gaz cheaper.
I only feel like it's gonna be worth something in TvT mech.
|
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play.
|
On May 25 2016 18:54 JackONeill wrote:
Have you actually tried the new thor AA? It's SO F***ING SLOW. One shot every 2,14 seconds, i looked the stats and if i'm not mistaken, 2 vikings have more AA DPS than the thor. Which is only 4 supply, and 50 gaz cheaper.
I only feel like it's gonna be worth something in TvT mech.
Did you at least test it in a test map? Vikings might be better in some situations, but the Thor is not vulnerable to PB, or other Vikings, Coruptors, and any AOE dmg that Vikings are so weak against. It's not as simple as just comparing DPS.
|
On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play.
Why not mass Tanks? Thors are an answer if the bio player starts massing Libs early on and invest heavely in air dominance. Then your Tanks should absolutely own the ground and Thors snipe Libs pre range upgrade. I think the problem here is that you might play to passive and not take advantage of the imbalance in the opponents army. Watch Goody for how to exploit this. Only play passive when you have no other choice.
|
United Kingdom20282 Posts
para bomb
Parasitic bomb has been nerfed by 1.5x a couple patches back and isn't all that amazing now
|
On May 25 2016 19:24 Cyro wrote:Parasitic bomb has been nerfed by 1.5x a couple patches back and isn't all that amazing now
Against Vikings it is. But it's a good thing imo
|
On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play.
What kind of level are you talking about? (not for bashing, for information)
|
Parasitic bomb itself is an okay idea, but not being able to dodge it feels wrong. Seekers can be dodged, why not PB. A Terran army clump up way more than the other races so its even more effective.
Add a little more dps to the thor;s alt fire and range increase, at least that its equal to a broodlord and things will be more fun.
|
On May 25 2016 20:38 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What kind of level are you talking about? (not for bashing, for information)
Mid-high masters
|
Mh interesting... I remember back in WOL, a Day9 daily about supernova's mech play, which was basically hellion/thors/banshees. Thors denied muta play, banshees allowed harass, hellions dealt with lings and 3-4 tanks helped against roaches. Maybe it'd be some decent mech play against Z
|
On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play.
What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ?
|
On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ?
I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast.
|
On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast.
Good.
Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho.
|
On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho.
avilo isnt good enough to judge such things..
|
On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho.
That question kinda anwers itself.
If Avilo's skill in game was as high as his salt level he just might be good enough to compete with the pros.
|
On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play.
My best race is zerg and worst is probably terran but I tested a mass thor strat in TvZ last night out of curiosity / for fun. It went just like you said, poor guy didn't know what to do with his mutalisks and died to a simple thor+hellbat push. The opponent was platinum.
For those complaining the single target AA attack is too weak, please keep in mind that we don't want "perfect" compositions with no weaknesses. It has to be weak against something otherwise we'll have mech deathballs.
|
On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho.
IMO Avilo plays way, way to passive and allows the Zerg to do whatever he wants. 5-6BLs supported by 100Vipers/Infestors and spores are not easy to engage. He is a good example in defending IMO, but Goody is much better in overall understanding of mech, timings and fights. Having the skill to know when to end the game is not something Avilo shines in.
|
For those complaining the single target AA attack is too weak, please keep in mind that we don't want "perfect" compositions with no weaknesses. It has to be weak against something otherwise we'll have mech deathballs.
Except thors are the ONLY factory anti air unit that is any good. If thors have an attack that is too weak, mech doesn't have good factory anti air, and isn't playable. Mech isn't weak against something if the attack is too bad, its just weak.
As for the mech deathballs, what's wrong with them? Every other race gets to have powerful deathballs, why not terran?
|
What I found so far is that Thors beat both Tempest and BroodLords for cost but not for supply. So Thors work good against those units provided that you push in time and not let the Protos/Zerg build their perfect deathball.
Carriers are about even with Thors but since you can get out Thors much faster then Carriers (at least if you play mech), Carriers are not a problem if you spot the transition in time.
BCS still beat Thors easily due to yamoto, but Vikings are already good enough against BCs so that is not really a problem.
Also I have been able to go up to 7 factories late game due to Thors being able to counter air, instead of having to throw away my factories and invest everything into starports and air units. This in itself is a huge benefit for mech.
I am not saying that mech will work at GSL level. But so far mech seems to be in a much better spot than it was before the patch. So good job Blizzard!
|
On May 26 2016 01:13 MockHamill wrote:
What I found so far is that Thors beat both Tempest and BroodLords for cost but not for supply. So Thors work good against those units provided that you push in time and not let the Protos/Zerg build their perfect deathball.
Carriers are about even with Thors but since you can get out Thors much faster then Carriers (at least if you play mech), Carriers are no problem if you spot the transition in time.
BCS still beat Thors easily due to yamoto, but Vikings are already good enough against BCs so that is not really a problem.
I am not saying that mech will work at GSL level. But so far mech seems to be in a much better spot than it was before the patch. So good job Blizzard!
Honestly I don't think thors should be a counter to carriers/battlecruisers/brood lords. I was experimenting with them as a terran answer to the ultralisk madness in LOTV. Ghosts and cyclones are easily ruined by fungals but thors don't have that weakness, they should probably be more worried about neural parasite. At least neural is easier to play around.
I agree thors probably aren't strong enough to be the standard build at high levels. But I feel like they could be viable as a curveball in like a Bo5/Bo7 format.
|
Interesting changes. I'd like to see if thor drops become a common thing. 50 damage to Vikings sounds pretty deadly from the defenders perspective. Mech ground viable?! :O
|
On May 26 2016 01:37 BaronVonOwn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2016 01:13 MockHamill wrote:
What I found so far is that Thors beat both Tempest and BroodLords for cost but not for supply. So Thors work good against those units provided that you push in time and not let the Protos/Zerg build their perfect deathball.
Carriers are about even with Thors but since you can get out Thors much faster then Carriers (at least if you play mech), Carriers are no problem if you spot the transition in time.
BCS still beat Thors easily due to yamoto, but Vikings are already good enough against BCs so that is not really a problem.
I am not saying that mech will work at GSL level. But so far mech seems to be in a much better spot than it was before the patch. So good job Blizzard!
Honestly I don't think thors should be a counter to carriers/battlecruisers/brood lords. I was experimenting with them as a terran answer to the ultralisk madness in LOTV. Ghosts and cyclones are easily ruined by fungals but thors don't have that weakness, they should probably be more worried about neural parasite. At least neural is easier to play around. I agree thors probably aren't strong enough to be the standard build at high levels. But I feel like they could be viable as a curveball in like a Bo5/Bo7 format.
I don't think they necessarily have to be the "counter" to capital ships in order for mech to be a solid option. They just have to make sure that you don't get completely and utterly demolished when the opponent surprises you with them. Sure, if your opponent is going to some extreme, like mass tempests, you still want to go vikings. But if they just add some of those ships in the mix, thor might be good enough to allow you to keep doing your factory build. Or they can help you buy time to making vikings without you simply automatically losing for choosing the wrong tech.
|
Just had the honor to experience mass Thors with a few Liberators.
They cannot be fucking serious.
|
On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play.
How have you been going mech in TvT? Any builds you could point me to? I'd love to play mech in TvT but I don't think I have it quite figured out.
Thanks!
|
On May 26 2016 02:05 Frudgey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. How have you been going mech in TvT? Any builds you could point me to? I'd love to play mech in TvT but I don't think I have it quite figured out. Thanks!
check out GuMiho vs Journey. turns out hellbats are still good
|
On May 26 2016 00:53 SwiftCrane wrote:Show nested quote +
For those complaining the single target AA attack is too weak, please keep in mind that we don't want "perfect" compositions with no weaknesses. It has to be weak against something otherwise we'll have mech deathballs.
Except thors are the ONLY factory anti air unit that is any good. If thors have an attack that is too weak, mech doesn't have good factory anti air, and isn't playable. Mech isn't weak against something if the attack is too bad, its just weak. As for the mech deathballs, what's wrong with them? Every other race gets to have powerful deathballs, why not terran?
Skytoss deathballs are OP bullshit and Zerg sky deathballs are hilariously easy to scout for, if you see a bunch of low tech units with Greater Spire being taken early along with a super early 4th (without the gas from 4th there is no aerial deathball on the way I promise you that) and Terran has a thousand and one ways to end the game if they scout that.
Stop crying, for god's sake mech just got a buff and people are still crying, they want mech to be this unbeatable deathball with zero weaknesses besides Vipers, go play Protoss and play Skytoss every game if thats what you want, mech is completely viable all the way up to GM league, just because Maru isn't going to win a GSL with it doesn't mean rank 20 Master league Joe Shmo can't easily crush face with well executed mech -___-
Thors are strong right now, Thor pushes definitely gonna make a comeback.
|
The new thor anti-air is exactly the same as hots against non-armored air when it was completely useless. Against armored air it's marginally better. You guys dying to Thors, especially in the midgame where nothing has changed, just aren't used to fighting them. You'll remember/learn and everything will go back to normal.
|
On May 26 2016 02:05 Frudgey wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. How have you been going mech in TvT? Any builds you could point me to? I'd love to play mech in TvT but I don't think I have it quite figured out. Thanks!
Mech in TvT doesn't really work once you get into masters, but it can work on dusk towers (or at least that's the only map i can manage to make it work)
You can go for :
- supply
- gaz
- rax => 1 marine
- facto
- CC + 2nd gaz
- reaper/hellion
- SP
From there you stay on 2 gasses and land your third CC asap, and you have a build that counter any kind of 3r reaper shenanigans, 1/1/1 or whatever BS you can face in TvT. The only danger is to get out macroed, which you can easily scout with reaper hellion. When you land the 3rd CC, then take the 3rd and 4rth gaz and land 3 more factories. Also, don't forget to land the Ebay to turret ring.
|
On May 26 2016 00:53 SwiftCrane wrote:Show nested quote +
For those complaining the single target AA attack is too weak, please keep in mind that we don't want "perfect" compositions with no weaknesses. It has to be weak against something otherwise we'll have mech deathballs.
Except thors are the ONLY factory anti air unit that is any good. If thors have an attack that is too weak, mech doesn't have good factory anti air, and isn't playable. Mech isn't weak against something if the attack is too bad, its just weak. As for the mech deathballs, what's wrong with them? Every other race gets to have powerful deathballs, why not terran?
On May 26 2016 01:13 MockHamill wrote:
What I found so far is that Thors beat both Tempest and BroodLords for cost but not for supply. So Thors work good against those units provided that you push in time and not let the Protos/Zerg build their perfect deathball.
Carriers are about even with Thors but since you can get out Thors much faster then Carriers (at least if you play mech), Carriers are not a problem if you spot the transition in time.
BCS still beat Thors easily due to yamoto, but Vikings are already good enough against BCs so that is not really a problem.
Also I have been able to go up to 7 factories late game due to Thors being able to counter air, instead of having to throw away my factories and invest everything into starports and air units. This in itself is a huge benefit for mech.
I am not saying that mech will work at GSL level. But so far mech seems to be in a much better spot than it was before the patch. So good job Blizzard!
i'm with Skywalker on this one.
On May 25 2016 23:02 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho. IMO Avilo plays way, way to passive and allows the Zerg to do whatever he wants. 5-6BLs supported by 100Vipers/Infestors and spores are not easy to engage. He is a good example in defending IMO, but Goody is much better in overall understanding of mech, timings and fights. Having the skill to know when to end the game is not something Avilo shines in.
Goody is Avilo's daddy. I've never seen Avilo beat Goody.
|
Russian Federation15 Posts
Overall it's a very positive update. I pretty much like where Blizzards are going with it.
Thor: can't really tell how it will be played. Still think that we need range up to be able to deal with Broodlords and Tempests.
Cyclone: maybe it will be played in TvP and that's a very positive thing. Early TvP looks stupid for Terran. Try not to die just to get to mid-late game where you get killed by mass Immortals(not anymore) and Tempests with storm. Still think that Cyclone needs more health.
Liberator: decent nerf. won't change meta but will help in TvZ in late stages of game.
Immortal: YES! FINALLY! That thing was OP in both TvP and TvZ. And it's the main reason why Zest have >90% winrate in TvP.
Colossus: maybe $o$'s build will work now?))
Swarm Host: shitty buff for shitty unit... Maybe someday it will become a harrasment tool. But not now I guess.
|
On May 25 2016 23:02 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho. IMO Avilo plays way, way to passive and allows the Zerg to do whatever he wants. 5-6BLs supported by 100Vipers/Infestors and spores are not easy to engage. He is a good example in defending IMO, but Goody is much better in overall understanding of mech, timings and fights. Having the skill to know when to end the game is not something Avilo shines in.
Or because yesterday i was testing late game max situations and the thors are garbage in those situations. Same with cyclones. If the Z/P knows how to turtle themselves into mass air still and late game comps thors are still useless.
All of the idiotic "timings" that people keep proposing here people always propose after a patch comes out and they play 3 games with the changes.
I've played many, many games of testing before and after the changes and know how games will play out and the changes in this patch do absolutely nothing to help vs mass tempest, or mass air in general.
It's not my fault people are short sighted and think after winning 3 games the patch magically solved the problem when ive played countless more games than they have and know the end game better.
If P/Z get to a max situation and you're massing thors/hellbats, you will die regardless of the thor high impact mode. Wait 1-2 weeks after people finally have played the same amount of sample games that i have.
People need to stop saying idiotic shit about how i play, i have done way more testing than anyone in this thread already over the past months.
|
On May 26 2016 02:25 TheWinks wrote:
The new thor anti-air is exactly the same as hots against non-armored air when it was completely useless. Against armored air it's marginally better. You guys dying to Thors, especially in the midgame where nothing has changed, just aren't used to fighting them. You'll remember/learn and everything will go back to normal.
Yep. Also not to mention that some people here keep saying they are winning with "timings" that people always die to a few games after a new patch, and then when opponents realize "oh i just turtle to max with P/Z and his thors are garbage" it's proven that the new thor is once again the same garbage it was before =/
But OK some people have patch hysteria and want to believe they can still beat 20+ tempest and high templar with these thors. GL guys.
|
On May 26 2016 03:44 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 23:02 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho. IMO Avilo plays way, way to passive and allows the Zerg to do whatever he wants. 5-6BLs supported by 100Vipers/Infestors and spores are not easy to engage. He is a good example in defending IMO, but Goody is much better in overall understanding of mech, timings and fights. Having the skill to know when to end the game is not something Avilo shines in. Or because yesterday i was testing late game max situations and the thors are garbage in those situations. Same with cyclones. If the Z/P knows how to turtle themselves into mass air still and late game comps thors are still useless. All of the idiotic "timings" that people keep proposing here people always propose after a patch comes out and they play 3 games with the changes. I've played many, many games of testing before and after the changes and know how games will play out and the changes in this patch do absolutely nothing to help vs mass tempest, or mass air in general. It's not my fault people are short sighted and think after winning 3 games the patch magically solved the problem when ive played countless more games than they have and know the end game better. If P/Z get to a max situation and you're massing thors/hellbats, you will die regardless of the thor high impact mode. Wait 1-2 weeks after people finally have played the same amount of sample games that i have. People need to stop saying idiotic shit about how i play, i have done way more testing than anyone in this thread already over the past months.
so you're not happy with the patch, then ?
|
No matter what Blizzard do, you will never be happy and allways complain anyway avilo, the game cannot be balanced around you biased opinion.
|
After playing around it for few hours and unit testing I came to the conclusion!
Tvz: New Thor doesn't prioritize air like it used to so you can stutter step it forward without wasting a volley on 1 broodlord or spread damage across bl (inefficient). It also prioritizes brooding over broodlord in range
Also, new Thor is good against low bl count, fairly well vs medium- larger number bls. The key is hitting +2 upgrade so thors 4 hit bl instead of 5 hit-especially important since you waste few volleys because thors don't hit air unit unless you command and it to
Also, due to ground prioritization on single target mode (an oversight I assume) it makes going against vipers bit clunky as it won prevent vipers entirely from binding cloud.
Corruptor take 4 shots to kill so it doesn't make large difference really. About same impact as splash option so nothing really notable here.
Tvt is big difference when you are mech vs mech or sky bio vs mech as having few thors prevents dying from few liberators but air control is still key with siege tanks and all. Thors do better vs Bcs but you should never make it as an answer. Viking and few raven is flat out far superior
Tvp nothing much changed. Carrier and tempest can out damage/tank/out maneuver thors which is expected
Tl;Dr: better vs broodlord and liberators. Interactions largely unchanged in other areas
|
So far I like the patch, cyclone isn't great still but the lower cost allows them to be used for harassment without completely stunting your build.
Really like the Thor changes. They aren't the end all to capital ship fleets on their own but they shouldn't be. At least now they can hold their own against most air units instead of instantly getting annihilated (packs of void rays come to mind). Also keep in mind that at +3 upgrade they literally do 4-5x dps using the new cannon compared to the missiles to large, heavily armoured targets (12 dmg compared to 59 dmg to a battlecruiser with six armor). This makes a big difference.
Once again I feel like mech is a viable build choice. (From a casual gamers perspective)
|
On May 26 2016 03:44 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 23:02 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho. IMO Avilo plays way, way to passive and allows the Zerg to do whatever he wants. 5-6BLs supported by 100Vipers/Infestors and spores are not easy to engage. He is a good example in defending IMO, but Goody is much better in overall understanding of mech, timings and fights. Having the skill to know when to end the game is not something Avilo shines in. Or because yesterday i was testing late game max situations and the thors are garbage in those situations. Same with cyclones. If the Z/P knows how to turtle themselves into mass air still and late game comps thors are still useless. All of the idiotic "timings" that people keep proposing here people always propose after a patch comes out and they play 3 games with the changes. I've played many, many games of testing before and after the changes and know how games will play out and the changes in this patch do absolutely nothing to help vs mass tempest, or mass air in general. It's not my fault people are short sighted and think after winning 3 games the patch magically solved the problem when ive played countless more games than they have and know the end game better. If P/Z get to a max situation and you're massing thors/hellbats, you will die regardless of the thor high impact mode. Wait 1-2 weeks after people finally have played the same amount of sample games that i have. People need to stop saying idiotic shit about how i play, i have done way more testing than anyone in this thread already over the past months.
Sigh, Avilo you won't be satisfied until cancer turtle mech has zero exploitable weaknesses. This game shouldn't be balanced around your nonsensical and biased opinions.
|
On May 26 2016 04:39 Tanked1 wrote:
Once again I feel like mech is a viable build choice. (From a casual gamers perspective)
I don't understand how people are saying this. Mech was very liberator dependent in the late game TvZ and the thor AA attack is not making up for that nerf in that department and in the midgame nothing has changed. Again, the Thor is not any stronger in the midgame. How is mech suddenly viable despite nothing changing?
|
Mech has always been viable till high GM, even LoTV. In HotS Mech was viable even at pro korean level. It was still rather boring/excrutiatingly painful with total lack of interplay to watch for the most part.
|
If blizz finally made the cyclone the mech footman it's supposed to be (removing the lock on), mech with hellion/cyclone + tank support would be possible. Being able to go straight into skyterran is cancer, and mass tank mech often ends up into turtly BS because moving out onto the map is usually suicide.
|
I wouldn't expect new thor to be any better than it was other than vs broodlords (due to its low hp masking thors poor dps/high burst attack)
Thor does whopping 3.78 more dps than a viking (23.36 dps vs 19.6 dps of viking) at 6 supply vs vikings 2
|
On May 26 2016 03:47 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2016 02:25 TheWinks wrote:
The new thor anti-air is exactly the same as hots against non-armored air when it was completely useless. Against armored air it's marginally better. You guys dying to Thors, especially in the midgame where nothing has changed, just aren't used to fighting them. You'll remember/learn and everything will go back to normal. Yep. Also not to mention that some people here keep saying they are winning with "timings" that people always die to a few games after a new patch, and then when opponents realize "oh i just turtle to max with P/Z and his thors are garbage" it's proven that the new thor is once again the same garbage it was before =/ But OK some people have patch hysteria and want to believe they can still beat 20+ tempest and high templar with these thors. GL guys.
Proven by WHO (you do not count btw) ? The Patch is only out for 2 days. This also makes your 1-2 weeks argument invalid. Like you have been playing more games in 2 days than others would have in 1-2 weeks... test map doesn´t count.
Also like others said: You will NEVER be satisfied. What Sapphire Lux said is true. You just sit in your base. ALWAYS. There´s no such thing as "testing end game". You always do this. And then complain when Zerg or Protoss does this.
|
On May 26 2016 09:25 jinjin5000 wrote:
I wouldn't expect new thor to be any better than it was other than vs broodlords (due to its low hp masking thors poor dps/high burst attack)
Thor does whopping 3.78 more dps than a viking (23.36 dps vs 19.6 dps of viking) at 6 supply vs vikings 2
That would be the dream but they would really need to start addresing tanks for that to happen. Right now I think its stronger to simply get thors and libs simply because lib AtG is still much better than the tank is vs ground.
|
Swarmhost buff seems excessive
|
On May 26 2016 03:44 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2016 23:02 Sapphire.lux wrote:On May 25 2016 21:36 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 21:08 Charoisaur wrote:On May 25 2016 20:58 seemsgood wrote:On May 25 2016 18:54 Charoisaur wrote:
I don't know if my opponents today just sucked but after heavily testing the new thor I think mech might be viable now at least in tvz and tvt. the other player can't just tech straight to air anymore without dying to a thor timing and even in maxed out battles thors are very strong. You still need viking support but air units don't completely invalidate your ground army anymore like before the patch.
my only problem is that mech seems to be more mass thor + liberators now than siege tank based play. What about mass broodlord situation ? Does mass air still involved ? I could beat armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors and a handful of vikings so I don't think you're forced to mass air anymore. The important thing vs broodlords is to have a good number of BF hellbats in your army to kill the broodlings fast. Good. Not sure why avilo dies to 5-6 broodlords in stream and said new thor doesn't work tho. IMO Avilo plays way, way to passive and allows the Zerg to do whatever he wants. 5-6BLs supported by 100Vipers/Infestors and spores are not easy to engage. He is a good example in defending IMO, but Goody is much better in overall understanding of mech, timings and fights. Having the skill to know when to end the game is not something Avilo shines in. Or because yesterday i was testing late game max situations and the thors are garbage in those situations. Same with cyclones. If the Z/P knows how to turtle themselves into mass air still and late game comps thors are still useless. All of the idiotic "timings" that people keep proposing here people always propose after a patch comes out and they play 3 games with the changes. I've played many, many games of testing before and after the changes and know how games will play out and the changes in this patch do absolutely nothing to help vs mass tempest, or mass air in general. It's not my fault people are short sighted and think after winning 3 games the patch magically solved the problem when ive played countless more games than they have and know the end game better. If P/Z get to a max situation and you're massing thors/hellbats, you will die regardless of the thor high impact mode. Wait 1-2 weeks after people finally have played the same amount of sample games that i have. People need to stop saying idiotic shit about how i play, i have done way more testing than anyone in this thread already over the past months.
I have beaten armies with 10-15 broodlords with mainly thors so it's pretty safe to say thors aren't completely useless against air. Maybe it won't work if zerg learns to play against it by adding more vipers/infestors/static defense/whatever but the patch makes a huge difference for sure.
I can make it work at least at high master level which was unthinkable before the patch so I'm pretty happy with it.
Vs tempests it's of course still useless but well, every unit in the game is pretty useless vs mass tempests.
|
I think the the problem with Thors is not with unit stats but with other parts of the game.
In a straight up battle where both sides have max uppgrades:
1 Thor beats 1 Tempest with with 155 hp left.
1 Thor beat 1 BroodLord with 201 hp left
1 Thor beat 1 Carrier with 16 hp left.
So Thors by themselves do their job in a stragiht up battle against air.
In TvZ the problem is more that BroodLord can kite Thors due to the range advantage and that Vipers still hard-counter mech. It is also hard to kill the Vipers before blinding cloud goes off.
In TvP the problem is the Protoss economy. Mech can beat Protoss grround units in a straight up battle. Thors can hold their ground against Protoss air. The problem is that the Protoss army will always have a higher army value due to Protoss being able to expand earlier and not having to invest so many resources in expansive factories.
Basically Protoss will always have a larger army with better upgrades and this is the reason TvP mech is not viable, not the units themselves. The solution to this to lower the cost of factories and armouries so that mech can invest more of the resources into units instead of production.
This would also be a partial solution to mech having problems with re-maxing compared to bio Terran, Zerg and Protoss.
|
Making Cyclone and Swarmhost cheaper, but increasing the Cyclone's supply cost makes sense to me. SH with 4 supply would render him crazily useless.
|
The thor is just the HOTS thor, it is not suddenly amazing and OP. And dont forget, the broodlord range got buffed with LOTV.
Yes Thors are strong, but that should be the case, high tier unit and its a lot of supply and very very expensive (300/200)
Tempests are still only 4 supply, same as a cyclone, that doesnt seem to be right.
|
So the Liberator buff makes an extremely negligible difference until the late game if the Terran is sitting there massing Liberators, they still require excellent spread and heavy Viper support to be dealt with soundly, but Air Carapace upgrades early instead of attack seems promising.
My real beef right now is that Cyclones (Useless for the most part, maybe not in TvP?) has the same supply cost as the Tempest (Maximum deathball unit, serves no purpose other then to play turtle mode and move out when you have 15 of them with a Mothership with Templars/Carriers), that really just doesn't strike me as right, Tempest aerial armies are pretty silly to deal with and they encourage a massively passive game.
|
Let's wait a few months until the game starts actually paying you for building SHs
|
I noticed a bug on king sejong station where units can walk on the edge of the ice near your third and you can also build buildings on it.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rotJtbM.jpg)
the depot on the screenshot is impossible to attack with a + click but I can still select it so maybe you can attack it by rightclicking when you're the opposing player.
|
On May 27 2016 03:04 Charoisaur wrote:I noticed a bug on king sejong station where units can walk on the edge of the ice near your third and you can also build buildings on it. the depot on the screenshot is impossible to attack with a + click but I can still select it so maybe you can attack it by rightclicking when you're the opposing player.
I'd really like to know what is the story leading up to this image. Your base is weirdly damaged, you have an awful lot of minerals but almost no gas and at least a quarter of your army is in Ghosts.
|
On May 27 2016 03:06 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2016 03:04 Charoisaur wrote:I noticed a bug on king sejong station where units can walk on the edge of the ice near your third and you can also build buildings on it. the depot on the screenshot is impossible to attack with a + click but I can still select it so maybe you can attack it by rightclicking when you're the opposing player. I'd really like to know what is the story leading up to this image. Your base is weirdly damaged, you have an awful lot of minerals but almost no gas and at least a quarter of your army is in Ghosts.
the game was already over I just messed around.
|
On May 27 2016 03:20 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2016 03:06 opisska wrote:On May 27 2016 03:04 Charoisaur wrote:I noticed a bug on king sejong station where units can walk on the edge of the ice near your third and you can also build buildings on it. the depot on the screenshot is impossible to attack with a + click but I can still select it so maybe you can attack it by rightclicking when you're the opposing player. I'd really like to know what is the story leading up to this image. Your base is weirdly damaged, you have an awful lot of minerals but almost no gas and at least a quarter of your army is in Ghosts. the game was already over I just messed around.
The ghosts, were they able to fire and get hit by units on that spot?
|
On May 27 2016 03:51 PinoKotsBeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2016 03:20 Charoisaur wrote:On May 27 2016 03:06 opisska wrote:On May 27 2016 03:04 Charoisaur wrote:I noticed a bug on king sejong station where units can walk on the edge of the ice near your third and you can also build buildings on it. the depot on the screenshot is impossible to attack with a + click but I can still select it so maybe you can attack it by rightclicking when you're the opposing player. I'd really like to know what is the story leading up to this image. Your base is weirdly damaged, you have an awful lot of minerals but almost no gas and at least a quarter of your army is in Ghosts. the game was already over I just messed around. The ghosts, were they able to fire and get hit by units on that spot?
there was 1 specific spot where the ghosts couldn't be targeted by a-click as well but I'd assume they would get naturally attacked by enemy units.
|
As a player that goes colossi every game in PvT (mid masters) I can't say I notice too big a difference (5 games on AM/EU).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
